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PHILosophize Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2012 Posts: 10758
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | PHILosophize wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | If you can get PG you don’t worry about whether Ingram is ready. Not mutually exclusive. Could have a killer lineup of
Lonzo
pg
Bi
Kuz
Boogie |
I really hope that's what our lineup is next year. Could be an 8 seed. |
Depending on our youth that can be a top 3 seed in the West. |
In a couple years, maybe. But next year 6-8 is best case scenario for that squad IMO. _________________ one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | PHILosophize wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | If you can get PG you don’t worry about whether Ingram is ready. Not mutually exclusive. Could have a killer lineup of
Lonzo
pg
Bi
Kuz
Boogie |
I really hope that's what our lineup is next year. Could be an 8 seed. |
Depending on our youth that can be a top 3 seed in the West. |
I'd say 5th seed behind GSW, SAS, HOU, and MIN. Thankfully getting Boogie and PG13 would help crater OKC and the Pelicans, too. |
True. I would say 3-5 range. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | PHILosophize wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | If you can get PG you don’t worry about whether Ingram is ready. Not mutually exclusive. Could have a killer lineup of
Lonzo
pg
Bi
Kuz
Boogie |
I really hope that's what our lineup is next year. Could be an 8 seed. |
Depending on our youth that can be a top 3 seed in the West. |
I'd say 5th seed behind GSW, SAS, HOU, and MIN. Thankfully getting Boogie and PG13 would help crater OKC and the Pelicans, too. |
True. I would say 3-5 range. |
I could maybe see that depending on how they fill out the bench. I think the following year they'd be more likely to make the leap - BI in year four, Lonzo and Kuz in year three; the MLE and 2019 pick could help round out the roster with more than merry minimums; etc.
But now I'm getting all excited when I should be tempering my expectations in case of failure next free agency. |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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I'm warming up to Boogie. His main weakness is TOs. |
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The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLogic wrote: | I'm warming up to Boogie. His main weakness is TOs. |
You just gotta live with the TOs cuz of everything else he brings. Same with James Harden and Westbrook and even Embiid.
Cousins would be a perfect center for us. Him and Kuz would fit beautifully in the front court. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLogic wrote: | I'm warming up to Boogie. His main weakness is TOs. |
And the technicals. |
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Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | Lakesh0wtime wrote: | LakersNewEra wrote: | I think we will feast this summer...after a long long time.
Paul George situation in OKC.. doesnt seem to be working out.
Cousins situation in NO....he is averaging amazing numbers, 26-14-6 but him and Davis while they can play together probably not the best fit.
I can definitely see us getting one of them...if not both. |
Yessir.
Although I'm holding out hope we can get Klay next year |
Yes, have have to keep reminding ourselves this is a punt year. We are just developing the young folks. That this team will look very different next season. Klay would be a nice addition. Best 3&D player ever. |
Yes we are tanking. Only without a pick. |
Weve developed into a top ten defensive team. Definitely sound like a tank🙄. You were at one point a very respected poster. You just seem to have taken on complaining in 75% of your posts anymore. Not even really putting much thought into your posts, even going the way of history revisionist to try and make your case. |
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LakersNewEra Star Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2014 Posts: 1526 Location: Vancouver BC
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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I want Cousins bad...he is entering his prime and he is amazing. He is the next great Lakers big man. Magic really needs to make a sell which I think its both possible and reasonable.
The whole thing hes got going in New Orleans with Davis, its good but he probably realizes that its not ideal.
Whereas in LA with Kuzma and Ingram, possibly Paul George it can be amazing.
In fact what I can see happening, I can see George and Cousins planning this through, joining together. Both are in the situation where they are surrounded by talent but its not put together really well.
I think Zo will need to be gone in either scenario because you simply need a PG that can shot with that combination of players but I can definitely see it happening. LA has got exactly what both George and Cousins need and theyre both in situation that likely doesnt make them too happy.
Last edited by LakersNewEra on Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Let me stop you at “I want cousins bad...” _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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TheeChosenLonzo Starting Rotation
Joined: 21 Oct 2017 Posts: 216
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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LakersNewEra wrote: | I want Cousins bad...he is entering his prime and he is amazing. He is the next great Lakers big man. Magic really needs to make a sell which I think its both possible and reasonable.
The whole thing hes got going in New Orleans with Davis, its good but he probably realizes that its not ideal.
Whereas in LA with Kuzma and Ingram, possibly Paul George it can be amazing.
In fact what I can see happening, I can see George and Cousins planning this through, joining together. Both are in the situation where they are surrounded by talent but its not put together really well.
I think Zo will need to be gone in either scenario because you simply need a PG that can shot with that combination of players but I can definitely see it happening. LA has got exactly what both George and Cousins need and theyre both in situation that likely doesnt make them too happy. |
Incorrect, with all those guys u need a guy to set them up |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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PHILosophize wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | If you can get PG you don’t worry about whether Ingram is ready. Not mutually exclusive. Could have a killer lineup of
Lonzo
pg
Bi
Kuz
Boogie |
I really hope that's what our lineup is next year. Could be an 8 seed. |
I agree, would be fighting for an 8th seed....any team that Cousins is on will always underachieve. |
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Let me stop you at “I want cousins bad...” |
"You know you got it bad when you're stuck in the house.
You don't wanna have fun. It's all you think about…" |
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lakers4life78 Star Player
Joined: 09 Apr 2012 Posts: 1921 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Assuming ball can develop and be a solid PG (I've stopped beliecing these guys will be elite), Cousins and PG with Kuzma, Ingram and Ball would be a very nice, young team. Cousins and PG would be 28. The peices fity because Ball and Ingram are unselfish players.
Of course, I wouldn't want Walton as a coach. _________________ 17 time World Champions |
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parsons777 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 3574
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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3 Max, How much would Cousins, PG and Lebron have to give up to fit and what would the team look like?
Assumptions:
1 We do not use the Pincus Gambit ( although that sounds great ), but rather trade Deng with whatever it takes, likely two relatively unprotected ( Top 3 only? ) picks, plus Zubac ( someone is going to want to take a flyer on that kid based on a couple games last year ).
2 We can move JC for nothing.
3 We can trade/waive/renounce everyone else, except: Kuzma, Ingram and Ball.
Total Cap for the 3 keepers: $14.9 mill
Holds for 12 slots: $7 mill
Total: $21.9 mill
Cap: $101
Remainder: $79.1
PG: 3 year deal, $28 mill first year, 5% raises, 3rd year player option
Cousins: 2 year deal, $28 mill first year, 5% raises, 2nd year player option
Lebron: 2 year deal, $23 mill first year, 5% raises, 2nd year player option
Why does PG want a 3 year deal and Cousins 2 instead of 4 year deals? Because PG is an 8 yr vet this summer and Cousins 9. So, they want 10 year vet contracts during their option years.
How would that work for Cousins? 10 year vet can get 35%, while 9 only 30%. But you might say, hey Cousins will not be a Bird or Early Bird free agent, so how much can we increase his salary from year 1 $28 mill? Glad you asked. Per the NBA FAQ a non-Bird FA can be paid 120% of his previous salary ( $28 * 1.2 = $33.6 mill ). The max Cousins could make, if he is not on an all NBA team, is 30% his first year $30.3 mill and 35% his second ( $108 * .35 = $37.8 mill ). So, Cousins would lose out on $2.3 mill in year 1 and about $3 mill in year 2 ( b/c he cannot actually get to the $37.8 ). By this summer, Cousins will have earned $80 mill in total salary. Would he give up $5 mill to play with PG and Lebron? I have no idea.
The numbers are very similar for PG. He ends up with an initial 3 year deal, which he opts out of after 2 years and so has Early Bird rights, meaning we can increase his salary by 130% over his year 2 salary starting year 3.
Lebron takes the biggest hit, but the man has earned, in salary alone, wait for it, $233 mill by this summer. Would he give up some $ for ring 4 and 5? I think he would.
Starters: PG Lonzo, SG Room Mid-Level Exception $4.3 mill, SF PG, PF Lebron, C Cousins
Bench: Ingram and Kuzma and a bunch of vet min guys. While these two will hate going to the bench, they will obliterate other teams benches next year. |
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rock0100 Star Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2005 Posts: 5387
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Assuming yoour calculations are correct, we would have a little more than $79 million. Maybe $80. We only need minimum cap holds for free roster spots up to 12. Since we would have 3 already, we only need 9 and 1 less as we agree to terms with each free agent.
You offer proportionally. Lebron gets 30, and Cousins and PG13 get 25. As soon as we can raise them, not sure if after 1 or 2 years, we give them the allowable 20% raise. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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^^^^^^
I thought moving the $30 Million+ of Deng and JC without taking a penny back was the most unlikely part of your scenario....then I read:
parsons777 wrote: | Lebron: 2 year deal, $23 mill first year, 5% raises, 2nd year player option |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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parsons777 wrote: | 3 Max, How much would Cousins, PG and Lebron have to give up to fit and what would the team look like?
Assumptions:
1 We do not use the Pincus Gambit ( although that sounds great ), but rather trade Deng with whatever it takes, likely two relatively unprotected ( Top 3 only? ) picks, plus Zubac ( someone is going to want to take a flyer on that kid based on a couple games last year ).
2 We can move JC for nothing.
3 We can trade/waive/renounce everyone else, except: Kuzma, Ingram and Ball.
Total Cap for the 3 keepers: $14.9 mill
Holds for 12 slots: $7 mill
Total: $21.9 mill
Cap: $101
Remainder: $79.1
PG: 3 year deal, $28 mill first year, 5% raises, 3rd year player option
Cousins: 2 year deal, $28 mill first year, 5% raises, 2nd year player option
Lebron: 2 year deal, $23 mill first year, 5% raises, 2nd year player option
Why does PG want a 3 year deal and Cousins 2 instead of 4 year deals? Because PG is an 8 yr vet this summer and Cousins 9. So, they want 10 year vet contracts during their option years.
How would that work for Cousins? 10 year vet can get 35%, while 9 only 30%. But you might say, hey Cousins will not be a Bird or Early Bird free agent, so how much can we increase his salary from year 1 $28 mill? Glad you asked. Per the NBA FAQ a non-Bird FA can be paid 120% of his previous salary ( $28 * 1.2 = $33.6 mill ). The max Cousins could make, if he is not on an all NBA team, is 30% his first year $30.3 mill and 35% his second ( $108 * .35 = $37.8 mill ). So, Cousins would lose out on $2.3 mill in year 1 and about $3 mill in year 2 ( b/c he cannot actually get to the $37.8 ). By this summer, Cousins will have earned $80 mill in total salary. Would he give up $5 mill to play with PG and Lebron? I have no idea.
The numbers are very similar for PG. He ends up with an initial 3 year deal, which he opts out of after 2 years and so has Early Bird rights, meaning we can increase his salary by 130% over his year 2 salary starting year 3.
Lebron takes the biggest hit, but the man has earned, in salary alone, wait for it, $233 mill by this summer. Would he give up some $ for ring 4 and 5? I think he would.
Starters: PG Lonzo, SG Room Mid-Level Exception $4.3 mill, SF PG, PF Lebron, C Cousins
Bench: Ingram and Kuzma and a bunch of vet min guys. While these two will hate going to the bench, they will obliterate other teams benches next year. |
$28 instead of $30... can certainly sell that but $23 instead of $35, how u gonna sell that? (That’s a contending team) |
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parsons777 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 3574
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | ^^^^^^
I thought moving the $30 Million+ of Deng and JC without taking a penny back was the most unlikely part of your scenario....then I read:
parsons777 wrote: | Lebron: 2 year deal, $23 mill first year, 5% raises, 2nd year player option |
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Check out the pay cut he took to go to Miami: http://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/lebron-james-2257/cash-earnings/
We'll just have to see what the king's priorities are.
For normal humans, like you and me, $10 mill or $20 mill really matters. To folks like Lebron, not so much is my guess.
Last edited by parsons777 on Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLogic wrote: | I'm warming up to Boogie. His main weakness is TOs. |
Ball dominance in the halfcourt. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23731
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Jahlil Okafor's father wore a shirt to the game that said "Free Jah" on the back of it.
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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parsons777 wrote: | adkindo wrote: | ^^^^^^
I thought moving the $30 Million+ of Deng and JC without taking a penny back was the most unlikely part of your scenario....then I read:
parsons777 wrote: | Lebron: 2 year deal, $23 mill first year, 5% raises, 2nd year player option |
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Check out the pay cut he took to go to Miami: http://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/lebron-james-2257/cash-earnings/
We'll just have to see what the king's priorities are.
For normal humans, like you and me, $10 mill or $20 mill really matters. To folks like Lebron, not so much is my guess. |
His mouthpiece, Windhorst, said that James is done taking paycuts. |
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parsons777 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 3574
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | parsons777 wrote: | adkindo wrote: | ^^^^^^
I thought moving the $30 Million+ of Deng and JC without taking a penny back was the most unlikely part of your scenario....then I read:
parsons777 wrote: | Lebron: 2 year deal, $23 mill first year, 5% raises, 2nd year player option |
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Check out the pay cut he took to go to Miami: http://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/lebron-james-2257/cash-earnings/
We'll just have to see what the king's priorities are.
For normal humans, like you and me, $10 mill or $20 mill really matters. To folks like Lebron, not so much is my guess. |
His mouthpiece, Windhorst, said that James is done taking paycuts. |
Well, then he is done getting rings. My sense is Lebron thinks about the future. He can be 50 with 5 rings and about $40 mill less dollars, meaning he will just barely be worth north of a billion or so or he can be 50 with 3 rings and $40 mill more. His call. History is not about having 4% more $ when you croak. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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parsons777 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | parsons777 wrote: | adkindo wrote: | ^^^^^^
I thought moving the $30 Million+ of Deng and JC without taking a penny back was the most unlikely part of your scenario....then I read:
parsons777 wrote: | Lebron: 2 year deal, $23 mill first year, 5% raises, 2nd year player option |
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Check out the pay cut he took to go to Miami: http://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/lebron-james-2257/cash-earnings/
We'll just have to see what the king's priorities are.
For normal humans, like you and me, $10 mill or $20 mill really matters. To folks like Lebron, not so much is my guess. |
His mouthpiece, Windhorst, said that James is done taking paycuts. |
Well, then he is done getting rings. My sense is Lebron thinks about the future. He can be 50 with 5 rings and about $40 mill less dollars, meaning he will just barely be worth north of a billion or so or he can be 50 with 3 rings and $40 mill more. His call. History is not about having 4% more $ when you croak. |
His basketball legacy is more than secure, and he purportedly wants to be the first billionaire former athlete. He can come to LA with Paul George, make a valiant, but losing effort at de-throning the Warriors, still have his $40M, and start up his production company with dreams of becoming a billionaire Hollywood mogul. |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:23 am Post subject: |
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I might entertain the idea of LeBron taking a slight paycut. But $23MM a year? It's not even worth discussing. It's beneath him and what he's done, given how great he still is.
On the last page someone mentioned that PG would be a perfect fit in Philly, and I have to admit that I completely agree. They need another 3 and D player, and PG is essentially a star version of that. He's not as good of a pure shooter as a guy like Redick is, but he offers so much more, especially defensively. And he wouldn't have the be the #1 offensive guy there, and I don't believe he's that anyway, not on a serious contender, anyway. He can be their #2 scorer, while Embiid is their alpha, and while Simmons is playing the distributing role and chipping in 15-18 PPG himself. They also have other complementary pieces there in Fultz, Saric, and Covington. Let's hope that he wants to be a Laker, and that the fact that we can pair him with another max player is more appealing to him than what Philly can offer. But Philly could probably make an awfully compelling presentation to him, assuming his mind isn't made up. And I don't see LeBron going to Philly (Simmons is their version of him and they are committed to him), and Cousins certainly isn't going there.
Also, going to throw this out there: assuming LeBron agreed to come (work with me here), would you rather have Cousins or PG along with LeBron? I think that PG has the better reputation, but is he the better player? And would he be the better fit? I'm not sure. I'm not saying he wouldn't be, but just asking. |
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Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:10 am Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | LakerLogic wrote: | I'm warming up to Boogie. His main weakness is TOs. |
Ball dominance in the halfcourt. |
You don't think with his passing/shooting ability he could fit? I've actually started tonearm.up tomhim as well TBH. |
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