OFFICIAL 2018 FREE AGENCY THREAD (Per WOJ/SHAMS KL wants out of Spurs; prefers Lakers? pg 1946)
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Judah
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:53 pm    Post subject:

I really don't get this obsession with constructing a team where everyone is in the same age group. It's not like the presence of LeBron and PG13 would be a detriment to the young core's development. In fact, I've been of the opinion for almost a year now that their development would take the next step playing alongside LeBron and George. The way they've played this year is more reason to reject the common assumption that they'll all become trade bait if those guys come. They're flirting with 40 wins despite not having a franchise player or an All-Star leading them. There's no reason to think they wouldn't be able to excel as role players on a championship-contending team.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:14 pm    Post subject:

From Michael C. Wright of ESPN:

Here's what Pop said about Kawhi Leonard's potential return: "Like anybody else, he's frustrated. He wants to be playing. He's competitive. It's been a tough year for him in that regard. But the first step is he's got to be cleared by his medical staff that he's seeing. And until he gets cleared, we can't make a decision on when he's coming back. So once he gets cleared, then he and I can sit down and talk, and see what we think about an appropriate time to come back. But that clearance has to be obtained first." "Nothing overrides the medical staff. That's a negotiation between the player and the coach to figure out what's best. He knows very well our history is pretty documented, if we're going to err, we're going to err on the conservative side because his career is going to be of paramount importance to us. It's not the game or the playoffs or this or that. It's the same like with Tim [Duncan]. He hurt a knee one year, and we didn't let him go in the playoffs. I don't know that that could be this situation. We don't know. But his career will be paramount in our thinking as we make a decision." "I've seen him working out. He needs a little bit more work."

Not the Spurs' medical staff, but Kawhi's medical staff. Wright then tweeted this:


Michael C. Wright

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So long story short, Kawhi's return at this point is out of the Spurs' hands.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:19 pm    Post subject:

To be honest I'm still looking at our two prioritizing targets being Cousins and George. Both for the 30M and thus it wouldn't throw off what we're already doing too much.

It's really that extra you'd throw at James for his max that would throw stuff off.

Stretching Deng still makes it viable for the Lakers to get a two max deal with both being 30M.

I personally feel if you replace KCP with George and Lopez with Cousins you have a team that's going to make a run in the West.

I know the question is whether or not Cousins is still the best center in the league when he comes back, but for all intents and purposes he'll be ready by training camp and already have time to train before training camp begins.


I think the Lakers stand a very good chance of finishing within a few games of New Orleans and THAT can be a very big selling point.

If you're the Lakers, you want to finish this season being within about 5-8 games of the final record of the Pelicans and/or OKC and use that to make your argument in free agency.

IF we can accomplish that, I'd say we stand a very good chance of getting one of those two, and getting one of those two all but ensures imo, getting the second one.


The other side of it is that the Lakers can go over their cap to not just sign Julius Randle, they can go over their cap to re-sign Isaiah Thomas.

My main question really is if Isaiah Thomas will

1) take a paycut or a 'Prove it" contract to show he can 'get back' this off-season.

2) accept being a Super 6th man Lou Williams role.

If Isaiah Thomas is willing to do both of those things, then we can be off to the races.

Julius Randle's cap hold is 12.4 (which will be how much his contract will be against the cap regardless if his first years amount is over that)

Isaiah Thomas's cap hold is 11.2 (which will be how much his contract will be against the cap regardless if his first years amount is over that)

With no Clarkson on the roster, Thomas's cap hold in his first year, would actually make his contract cheaper than Clarkson's by that extension by almost 1M.


So the perfect off-season would be as such (and you can do the numbers to see if it fits)

Would be

Signing Paul George
Signing DeMarcus Cousins
Re-signing Julius Randle
Re-signing Isaiah Thomas to a (prove it 1+1 deal)

it may require renouncing the rights to Thomas Bryant and Ivica Zubac, or it may not, it depends if other teams are interested in them and then you can hopefully re-sign them.


Anyway, if that happens (number crunchers find out if it's possible or the contracts necessary) our roster would look like this going into next season if all else remains the same.


Starters:
Lonzo Ball
Paul George
Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle
Demarcus Cousins

Bench:
Isaiah Thomas
Josh Hart
Kyle Kuzma
Travis Wear / Cav's 1st Rounder
Ivica Zubac / Thomas Bryant


Now assuming Cousins is 80% of what he was and Thomas is able to get back to form enough to be a more improved version of what he is right now (say 44% from the field, 38% from three).

How far does that team go?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:22 pm    Post subject:

No way I want Cousins. A guy his size with an ruptured Achilles injury is not good. I wish him the best just not on our team.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:24 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
I personally don't think it will be "that" hard to move Deng if the Lakers are so motivated - we'll see if it comes to that and what price they pay. A first + $5 mil in cash is a strong starting point

https://twitter.com/EricPincus/status/973700751343013888
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:25 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
GS won’t have 4 max contracts. KD has taken less, Green won’t be a max player. The word from Klay and his father is that he is going nowhere. Maybe put a cap on dreaming and develop our own players?


Let me clean up my semantics since you're being uber technical. They'll have 4 guys over 30m/year, two who will be reaching closer to 40m/year. 4 guys will surpass the likely cap space for each year by 20-30m.

At a certain point they will have to likely move one of the 4 to break a 30-40m/year deal into 2-3 players b/c their depth is suffering b/c Iggy/Livingston are slowing down.


I wouldn’t agree that is likely at all. Klay wants to be in GS, I don’t see any way he isn’t there. Maybe get our own house in order before we worry about the more successful franchises? We have a lot of talent on this team that many here want to dismiss.


Our house is in order. Did you miss the memo?

And we'll see if the Lakers aren't in a position to take away a core member of the Warriors via FA/trade down the road.

And no one is dismissing our internal talent. We're ADDING to it, unless you think Deng is the "talent" on this team.


I thought we was talking about Goldenstate? lol
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:28 pm    Post subject:

We aren't going to invest a $30MM per year max contract on a player coming off a torn Achilles over $35MM per year on a player who is one of the five greatest players to ever play basketball. It's just not going to happen. This assumes LeBron wants us, of course.

The Lakers will gladly part with the draft picks that are necessary to part with Deng, if it means attaining the dream offseason. I'm sure the Lakers would ideally like to get away with a trade of Deng plus the CLE pick, $5.2MM in cash, the Denver 2nd rounder, and the Chicago 2019 2nd, but I'm guessing it will end up being Deng plus the CLE pick and a '20 1st, and possibly with the $5.2MM in cash.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject:

Most of you are happy to sign Brook and even if Boogie wore a lead boot on his foot he'd be more mobile than him.

I get that the price is much different so that is a factor... but if you are willing to sign Brook... then I don't think you should worry about Boogie. He could be a good signing if he gives an Achilles discount.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:48 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
but I'm guessing it will end up being Deng plus the CLE pick and a '20 1st, and possibly with the $5.2MM in cash.


at a minimum in my opinion....think some other asset like Kuzma or Hart would have to included....because those will be expected to be lower value 1st Rounders.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
Most of you are happy to sign Brook and even if Boogie wore a lead boot on his foot he'd be more mobile than him.

I get that the price is much different so that is a factor... but if you are willing to sign Brook... then I don't think you should worry about Boogie. He could be a good signing if he gives an Achilles discount.


come on....please just say it....your plan B is a 5'8" guy with a bad hip, and a temperamental guy coming off an Achilles.... (jk with you)
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:56 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Most of you are happy to sign Brook and even if Boogie wore a lead boot on his foot he'd be more mobile than him.

I get that the price is much different so that is a factor... but if you are willing to sign Brook... then I don't think you should worry about Boogie. He could be a good signing if he gives an Achilles discount.


come on....please just say it....your plan B is a 5'8" guy with a bad hip, and a temperamental guy coming off an Achilles.... (jk with you)


I agree even for me that might be pushing it in terms of risk management... but to me Boogie with no mobility is Love or Brook. And I don't mind signing either of those.

For me it's all about best available player assuming you can properly tailor the fit. So maybe my order is LeBron/PG/Boogie/IT for this year.

I'd take Kemba or Damien over IT, but we'd need to trade away assets to acquire them. Seth is fine too, but I'm not sure we can get him.

For center I'd want Boogie over Brook... I know some of you have been pushing for Noel, but if we are going to play Randle, then I think we need the floor spacing... even with LeBron or George.

I'm not as irrational about IT as some of you think. Sure I like his underdog story... but I wouldn't pass up someone better to sign him. I just wouldn't give him up until someone better was actually secured.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:00 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
Most of you are happy to sign Brook and even if Boogie wore a lead boot on his foot he'd be more mobile than him.

I get that the price is much different so that is a factor... but if you are willing to sign Brook... then I don't think you should worry about Boogie. He could be a good signing if he gives an Achilles discount.

Brook is one of the best rim protectors in the league, and we wouldn't have to cross our fingers, hoping that he can eventually become at least a solid player on one leg. NO would probably offer him more than the Lakers would anyway.

As far as maxing him out is concerned, that would be MozDeng all over again, just in one player. After all the hard work it's taken to undo and recover from those two contracts, it would be exponentially stupid to then blow all of that money on a big man who's trying to recover from a torn Achilles.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:02 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Most of you are happy to sign Brook and even if Boogie wore a lead boot on his foot he'd be more mobile than him.

I get that the price is much different so that is a factor... but if you are willing to sign Brook... then I don't think you should worry about Boogie. He could be a good signing if he gives an Achilles discount.

Brook is one of the best rim protectors in the league, and we wouldn't have to cross our fingers, hoping that he can eventually become at least a solid player on one leg. NO would probably offer him more than the Lakers would anyway.

As far as maxing him out is concerned, that would be MozDeng all over again, just in one player. After all the hard work it's taken to undo and recover from those two contracts, it would be exponentially stupid to then blow all of that money on a big man who's trying to recover from a torn Achilles.


Yeah I wouldn't max either Boogie or IT... probably wouldn't max Kawhi either without an injury free season under his belt. But I'd sign either at a reasonable price and length.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:07 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
but I'm guessing it will end up being Deng plus the CLE pick and a '20 1st, and possibly with the $5.2MM in cash.


at a minimum in my opinion....think some other asset like Kuzma or Hart would have to included....because those will be expected to be lower value 1st Rounders.


Nah, two first rounders is already above market value... asking for Hart or Kuzma would be ridiculous. I guarantee you there are more than a few teams who wouldn't hesitate to take on Deng if they could get two first round picks. That's worst case scenario - a first, a second (or two) and cash is probably the most likely scenario.

Keep in mind that last year, the Toronto traded Carroll (2 years, $30 million) to Brooklyn - it only cost them their 2019 lottery protected 1st round pick (which was projected to be somewhere in the 24-30 range at the time) and a second round pick. Last summer, the Nets were pretty much the only game in town to absorb contracts. This summer, there will be multiple rebuilding teams who can absorb Deng (Chicago, Atlanta, Phoenix, Indiana, Sacramento, Dallas, etc.). Deng only makes $3 million a year more than Carroll and will only have the same 2 years left this summer. Cleveland's pick is likely better than the one Toronto gave up, making no mention of giving them 2 picks (Denver 2018 and Chicago 2019) plus cash. Its just ridiculous to think we'd have to attach Hart or Kuzma.

I think, barring a $20+ million offer from Dallas, the Lakers keep Randle regardless of what happens this summer. We'll pay him $18 million a year if need be. I'm relatively positive that George comes here. The real wildcard is Lebron, who I think leaves, but who will choose from us, Houston or Philadelphia.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:07 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
but I'm guessing it will end up being Deng plus the CLE pick and a '20 1st, and possibly with the $5.2MM in cash.


at a minimum in my opinion....think some other asset like Kuzma or Hart would have to included....because those will be expected to be lower value 1st Rounders.


I disagree. This CLE pick is a better pick than the Toronto pick that the Nets will get for taking Carroll, and the Nets only got just that one 1st rounder out of it, plus a 2nd, which is also going to be a late 2nd. If we include $5.2MM in cash in a Deng trade, a team will be taking on barely more money with Deng, as opposed to Carroll. And the Nets weren't trading for Carroll thinking he'd help them. It was bad money, and the motivation was to use their cap space to get assets.

Unless teams are just out to spite the Lakers, getting two 1st round picks for Deng, especially when the '18 CLE pick is indisputably going to be better than the TOR pick, is a better outcome for a tanking team looking to rebuild and acquire assets.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:07 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Most of you are happy to sign Brook and even if Boogie wore a lead boot on his foot he'd be more mobile than him.

I get that the price is much different so that is a factor... but if you are willing to sign Brook... then I don't think you should worry about Boogie. He could be a good signing if he gives an Achilles discount.


come on....please just say it....your plan B is a 5'8" guy with a bad hip, and a temperamental guy coming off an Achilles.... (jk with you)


I agree even for me that might be pushing it in terms of risk management... but to me Boogie with no mobility is Love or Brook. And I don't mind signing either of those.


But for $30 million per year? I think the Pelicans are ready to max him.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:09 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Most of you are happy to sign Brook and even if Boogie wore a lead boot on his foot he'd be more mobile than him.

I get that the price is much different so that is a factor... but if you are willing to sign Brook... then I don't think you should worry about Boogie. He could be a good signing if he gives an Achilles discount.


come on....please just say it....your plan B is a 5'8" guy with a bad hip, and a temperamental guy coming off an Achilles.... (jk with you)


I agree even for me that might be pushing it in terms of risk management... but to me Boogie with no mobility is Love or Brook. And I don't mind signing either of those.

For me it's all about best available player assuming you can properly tailor the fit. So maybe my order is LeBron/PG/Boogie/IT for this year.

I'd take Kemba or Damien over IT, but we'd need to trade away assets to acquire them. Seth is fine too, but I'm not sure we can get him.

For center I'd want Boogie over Brook... I know some of you have been pushing for Noel, but if we are going to play Randle, then I think we need the floor spacing... even with LeBron or George.

I'm not as irrational about IT as some of you think. Sure I like his underdog story... but I wouldn't pass up someone better to sign him. I just wouldn't give him up until someone better was actually secured.


plus, Boogie is the one that wanted IT gone from Sacramento.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:09 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
but I'm guessing it will end up being Deng plus the CLE pick and a '20 1st, and possibly with the $5.2MM in cash.


at a minimum in my opinion....think some other asset like Kuzma or Hart would have to included....because those will be expected to be lower value 1st Rounders.


Nah, two first rounders is already above market value... asking for Hart or Kuzma would be ridiculous. I guarantee you there are more than a few teams who wouldn't hesitate to take on Deng if they could get two first round picks. That's worst case scenario - a first, a second (or two) and cash is probably the most likely scenario.

Keep in mind that last year, the Toronto traded Carroll (2 years, $30 million) to Brooklyn - it only cost them their 2019 lottery protected 1st round pick (which was projected to be somewhere in the 24-30 range at the time) and a second round pick. Last summer, the Nets were pretty much the only game in town to absorb contracts. This summer, there will be multiple rebuilding teams who can absorb Deng (Chicago, Atlanta, Phoenix, Indiana, Sacramento, Dallas, etc.). Deng only makes $3 million a year more than Carroll and will only have the same 2 years left this summer. Cleveland's pick is likely better than the one Toronto gave up, making no mention of giving them 2 picks (Denver 2018 and Chicago 2019) plus cash. Its just ridiculous to think we'd have to attach Hart or Kuzma.

I think, barring a $20+ million offer from Dallas, the Lakers keep Randle regardless of what happens this summer. We'll pay him $18 million a year if need be. I'm relatively positive that George comes here. The real wildcard is Lebron, who I think leaves, but who will choose from us, Houston or Philadelphia.


Dammit, LS.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:10 pm    Post subject:

lol CS... went all WWE style.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:12 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Most of you are happy to sign Brook and even if Boogie wore a lead boot on his foot he'd be more mobile than him.

I get that the price is much different so that is a factor... but if you are willing to sign Brook... then I don't think you should worry about Boogie. He could be a good signing if he gives an Achilles discount.


come on....please just say it....your plan B is a 5'8" guy with a bad hip, and a temperamental guy coming off an Achilles.... (jk with you)


I agree even for me that might be pushing it in terms of risk management... but to me Boogie with no mobility is Love or Brook. And I don't mind signing either of those.

For me it's all about best available player assuming you can properly tailor the fit. So maybe my order is LeBron/PG/Boogie/IT for this year.

I'd take Kemba or Damien over IT, but we'd need to trade away assets to acquire them. Seth is fine too, but I'm not sure we can get him.

For center I'd want Boogie over Brook... I know some of you have been pushing for Noel, but if we are going to play Randle, then I think we need the floor spacing... even with LeBron or George.

I'm not as irrational about IT as some of you think. Sure I like his underdog story... but I wouldn't pass up someone better to sign him. I just wouldn't give him up until someone better was actually secured.


plus, Boogie is the one that wanted IT gone from Sacramento.


I'm more worried about taking on two injured players than personality clashes. If Phil can reunite with Kobe, if LBJ and Wade can reunite... I don't think you'd have to worry about reuniting IT with people he'd clash with.

But yeah... two injury risks is not a good idea... I'd take a chance on one though because they both are truly talented players.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:30 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Most of you are happy to sign Brook and even if Boogie wore a lead boot on his foot he'd be more mobile than him.

I get that the price is much different so that is a factor... but if you are willing to sign Brook... then I don't think you should worry about Boogie. He could be a good signing if he gives an Achilles discount.


come on....please just say it....your plan B is a 5'8" guy with a bad hip, and a temperamental guy coming off an Achilles.... (jk with you)


I agree even for me that might be pushing it in terms of risk management... but to me Boogie with no mobility is Love or Brook. And I don't mind signing either of those.

For me it's all about best available player assuming you can properly tailor the fit. So maybe my order is LeBron/PG/Boogie/IT for this year.

I'd take Kemba or Damien over IT, but we'd need to trade away assets to acquire them. Seth is fine too, but I'm not sure we can get him.

For center I'd want Boogie over Brook... I know some of you have been pushing for Noel, but if we are going to play Randle, then I think we need the floor spacing... even with LeBron or George.

I'm not as irrational about IT as some of you think. Sure I like his underdog story... but I wouldn't pass up someone better to sign him. I just wouldn't give him up until someone better was actually secured.


plus, Boogie is the one that wanted IT gone from Sacramento.


IT has had quite the run ins with players. IT has that underdog in him no doubt but seems to rub people the wrong way after a while.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:32 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
POSITIONLESS BASKETBALL, FOLKS.

We had Ingram running "point" when Lonzo was hurt and when Luke finally realized that it's better to have an actual decent player to handle the ball than Tyler Ennis.

Look at skills and how pieces will fit. Positionless basketball. Embrace it.


Agreed.



PS- Love the new sig.👍
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:36 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Most of you are happy to sign Brook and even if Boogie wore a lead boot on his foot he'd be more mobile than him.

I get that the price is much different so that is a factor... but if you are willing to sign Brook... then I don't think you should worry about Boogie. He could be a good signing if he gives an Achilles discount.


come on....please just say it....your plan B is a 5'8" guy with a bad hip, and a temperamental guy coming off an Achilles.... (jk with you)


I agree even for me that might be pushing it in terms of risk management... but to me Boogie with no mobility is Love or Brook. And I don't mind signing either of those.

For me it's all about best available player assuming you can properly tailor the fit. So maybe my order is LeBron/PG/Boogie/IT for this year.

I'd take Kemba or Damien over IT, but we'd need to trade away assets to acquire them. Seth is fine too, but I'm not sure we can get him.

For center I'd want Boogie over Brook... I know some of you have been pushing for Noel, but if we are going to play Randle, then I think we need the floor spacing... even with LeBron or George.

I'm not as irrational about IT as some of you think. Sure I like his underdog story... but I wouldn't pass up someone better to sign him. I just wouldn't give him up until someone better was actually secured.


plus, Boogie is the one that wanted IT gone from Sacramento.


Was he? Cause about a year ago wasn't Thomas vouching for Cousins to be on the team if the Celtics traded for him. Saying that one of the major things they had was the respect of the other?

There doesn't seem to be an issue with them now if that's the case.

They love trolling each other though

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ChickenStu
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Joined: 25 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject:

babyskyhook wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
POSITIONLESS BASKETBALL, FOLKS.

We had Ingram running "point" when Lonzo was hurt and when Luke finally realized that it's better to have an actual decent player to handle the ball than Tyler Ennis.

Look at skills and how pieces will fit. Positionless basketball. Embrace it.


Agreed.



PS- Love the new sig.👍


Why, thank you!
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:50 pm    Post subject:

I have a difficult time seeing the Lakers blow sacred cap space on the #Hobbled.
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Plan B: PG13/re-sign Jules/punt rest of cap to 2019
Plan C: re-sign Jules/do not extend mediocre players to long term deals
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