OFFICIAL 2018 FREE AGENCY THREAD (7/24 Update: LAL Has Full 15 Man Roster; p.1 - Remaining FAs, Notable Expiring Contracts & Lakers' 2019 Cap)
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MJST
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:50 pm    Post subject:

Also at this point it's not about the injury risks of IT and Cousins.

The worry isn't about re-injury (knock on wood). It's more so about how much of themselves they can be.

Thomas at this point's floor is a Super 6th man Lou Williams roll that can give us 17-19 off the bench. That's his floor, his ceiling is obviously getting back to who he was in Boston. But I'll take that floor as a replacement for Clarkson.


Cousins we haven't seen yet. To me, even 80% of what he was, is a great off-season get.

But as I said, you replace KCP with George, and Lopez with even 80% of what he was DeMarcus Cousins, and I think you're set.

Cousins and Randle's games fit together very well especially with Cousins ability to stretch the floor, and you combine both him and Randle's rebounding and you have quite the scenario.

In addition to that you have the 1-2-3 combination of Lonzo, Paul and Ingram.

Then you have the defensive trio of George, Ball, Randle and Ingram as he comes around. So you've got 4 out of 5 in the starting lineup as people that are either known as defenders or have high defensive ceilings, which makes up for where Cousins lacks defensively, particularly when you have Randle who can switch on any and everything.

So "fit" wise, I'd say that

Lonzo Ball
Paul George
Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle
DeMarcus Cousins

fits extremely well.

It's essentially the starting lineup we have now with super upgrades at the 2 and the 5.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:53 pm    Post subject:

^^I'd consider boogie on a discount, I doubt he'd even consider that though unless the market forces him to.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
but I'm guessing it will end up being Deng plus the CLE pick and a '20 1st, and possibly with the $5.2MM in cash.


at a minimum in my opinion....think some other asset like Kuzma or Hart would have to included....because those will be expected to be lower value 1st Rounders.


Nah, two first rounders is already above market value... asking for Hart or Kuzma would be ridiculous. I guarantee you there are more than a few teams who wouldn't hesitate to take on Deng if they could get two first round picks. That's worst case scenario - a first, a second (or two) and cash is probably the most likely scenario.

Keep in mind that last year, the Toronto traded Carroll (2 years, $30 million) to Brooklyn - it only cost them their 2019 lottery protected 1st round pick (which was projected to be somewhere in the 24-30 range at the time) and a second round pick. Last summer, the Nets were pretty much the only game in town to absorb contracts. This summer, there will be multiple rebuilding teams who can absorb Deng (Chicago, Atlanta, Phoenix, Indiana, Sacramento, Dallas, etc.). Deng only makes $3 million a year more than Carroll and will only have the same 2 years left this summer. Cleveland's pick is likely better than the one Toronto gave up, making no mention of giving them 2 picks (Denver 2018 and Chicago 2019) plus cash. Its just ridiculous to think we'd have to attach Hart or Kuzma.

I think, barring a $20+ million offer from Dallas, the Lakers keep Randle regardless of what happens this summer. We'll pay him $18 million a year if need be. I'm relatively positive that George comes here. The real wildcard is Lebron, who I think leaves, but who will choose from us, Houston or Philadelphia.


I disagree....Carroll starts for Brooklyn, and Deng is dead money for 2 years.....Caroll's value is actually near his contract (starting forward). I will stick with 2 first rounds picks at a minimum...but it could even take more.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:59 pm    Post subject:

Lakers was firsthand how deveststing an Achilles injury is. Granted Kobe is older but Boogie doesn’t have the sterling reputation of being a gym rat workaholic either.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:59 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
And the Nets weren't trading for Carroll thinking he'd help them. It was bad money, and the motivation was to use their cap space to get assets.


this is not accurate....the Nets were claiming from the beginning that they thought Carroll would fit well with what they were doing....Carroll was never "dead money"....he played 26 MPG (72 games) for Toronto last year. There is nothing similar in regards to Carroll and Deng.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:00 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
but I'm guessing it will end up being Deng plus the CLE pick and a '20 1st, and possibly with the $5.2MM in cash.


at a minimum in my opinion....think some other asset like Kuzma or Hart would have to included....because those will be expected to be lower value 1st Rounders.


Nah, two first rounders is already above market value... asking for Hart or Kuzma would be ridiculous. I guarantee you there are more than a few teams who wouldn't hesitate to take on Deng if they could get two first round picks. That's worst case scenario - a first, a second (or two) and cash is probably the most likely scenario.

Keep in mind that last year, the Toronto traded Carroll (2 years, $30 million) to Brooklyn - it only cost them their 2019 lottery protected 1st round pick (which was projected to be somewhere in the 24-30 range at the time) and a second round pick. Last summer, the Nets were pretty much the only game in town to absorb contracts. This summer, there will be multiple rebuilding teams who can absorb Deng (Chicago, Atlanta, Phoenix, Indiana, Sacramento, Dallas, etc.). Deng only makes $3 million a year more than Carroll and will only have the same 2 years left this summer. Cleveland's pick is likely better than the one Toronto gave up, making no mention of giving them 2 picks (Denver 2018 and Chicago 2019) plus cash. Its just ridiculous to think we'd have to attach Hart or Kuzma.

I think, barring a $20+ million offer from Dallas, the Lakers keep Randle regardless of what happens this summer. We'll pay him $18 million a year if need be. I'm relatively positive that George comes here. The real wildcard is Lebron, who I think leaves, but who will choose from us, Houston or Philadelphia.


I disagree....Carroll starts for Brooklyn, and Deng is dead money for 2 years.....Caroll's value is actually near his contract (starting forward). I will stick with 2 first rounds picks at a minimum...but it could even take more.


Once again, at the time the Nets were not getting Carroll for any basketball-playing value. I grant you that Deng's contract is more onerous, but if the money is similar, I don't see how a team like Atlanta couldn't justify taking not just the CLE pick, but also another future 1st. And we could also throw in another 2nd if absolutely necessary.

I would be flat-out stunned if we were unable to trade Deng.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:01 pm    Post subject:

^^^see above, that statement is not accurate

Quote:
Adrian Wojnarowski

Verified account
@wojespn

Carroll can become Nets starting small forward in short-term. Kenny Atkinson coached him in Atlanta, loves getting chance to do it again.

12:39 AM - 9 Jul 2017


https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/883908439797268480
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:03 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
And the Nets weren't trading for Carroll thinking he'd help them. It was bad money, and the motivation was to use their cap space to get assets.


this is not accurate....the Nets were claiming from the beginning that they thought Carroll would fit well with what they were doing....Carroll was never "dead money"....he played 26 MPG (72 games) for Toronto last year. There is nothing similar in regards to Carroll and Deng.


Well of COURSE that's what they said. I wouldn't expect anything different. What did we say when we got Deng? Again, I'm not saying that Carroll's value last year at this time was as dead as Deng's, but the basic premise is that getting Carroll was not helping them to make the playoffs or anything. They knew they would be awful and they wanted more draft capital.

Again, to throw out Atlanta as an example, the fact that Deng won't help them on the court is not their goal in a potential move like this. They are starting from the ground up, and they will have three 1st round picks this year. A trade like this would give them a 4th. Deng is not getting in the way of achieving their objective, and, in fact, taking on his contract is helping them to achieve things that they want to accomplish.

And I'm not even arguing that it will only take one 1st. I'm saying that I believe it will happen with two 1st's, and possibly a 2nd thrown in as a sweetener, and the $5.2MM in cash as well. But it's not going to take three 1st's. That's ludicrous.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:09 pm    Post subject:

CS... don't buy into it. Max is two 1sts and cash, probably not even that. Its easy to let your pessimism start adjusting your expectations... see it in the Randle thread all the time regarding what type of offers he will get. Even Pincus tweeted today that the Cleveland 1st and cash is a pretty strong starting point (in response to someone who said two 1sts would get it done). Carroll wasn't a player - he was a contract. Everyone knew it at the time, regardless of some revisionist history.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:10 pm    Post subject:

I posted a bunch of quotes from the time the Nets traded for Carrol from guys like Zach Lowe and Kevin Pelton. The consensus from outside observers was that his contract was dead money. Zach called it “an anvil of a deal”.

I posted that stuff in response to someone (I think it was adkindo) making this argument back then, but whomever it was never responded to the quotes.

Just google “Zach Lowe Demarre Carrol trade Nets” and it will come up.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:13 pm    Post subject:

^^^^we simply disagree....I am confident that your suggestion of a mid 20's 1st, a 2nd, and some cash will not even get a team to call back. I think comparing a cheaper, better player that is expected to start to Deng is apples and oranges....there is nothing similar about the situations. Time will tell.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:13 pm    Post subject:

^
You guys don't have to convince me, and I am very comfortable in my belief that, should we need to move Deng, we will move Deng.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:15 pm    Post subject:

^^^... I just wanted to continue the trend.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:16 pm    Post subject:

Last year, I was beating the drum for Mozgov being traded to the Nets, with us getting back Lopez. I didn't have the exact trade right (I certainly didn't foresee Dlo in the deal, nor did I see us getting back a 1st), but I had the temperature of the room, so to speak. Adkindo, I'm asking you to trust my temperature-taking again lol. I think Deng will end up getting traded to Atlanta along with two 1st's, one of those being this year's CLE pick.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:20 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Also at this point it's not about the injury risks of IT and Cousins.

The worry isn't about re-injury (knock on wood). It's more so about how much of themselves they can be.

Thomas at this point's floor is a Super 6th man Lou Williams roll that can give us 17-19 off the bench. That's his floor, his ceiling is obviously getting back to who he was in Boston. But I'll take that floor as a replacement for Clarkson.


Cousins we haven't seen yet. To me, even 80% of what he was, is a great off-season get.

But as I said, you replace KCP with George, and Lopez with even 80% of what he was DeMarcus Cousins, and I think you're set.

Cousins and Randle's games fit together very well especially with Cousins ability to stretch the floor, and you combine both him and Randle's rebounding and you have quite the scenario.

In addition to that you have the 1-2-3 combination of Lonzo, Paul and Ingram.

Then you have the defensive trio of George, Ball, Randle and Ingram as he comes around. So you've got 4 out of 5 in the starting lineup as people that are either known as defenders or have high defensive ceilings, which makes up for where Cousins lacks defensively, particularly when you have Randle who can switch on any and everything.

So "fit" wise, I'd say that

Lonzo Ball
Paul George
Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle
DeMarcus Cousins

fits extremely well.

It's essentially the starting lineup we have now with super upgrades at the 2 and the 5.

You’re doing the best you can to gloss over the severity of Boogie’s injury, but it’s not working. Boogie at 80% of what he was prior to the injury is not ”great.” It’s just not. You like percentages, so here’s one I’m sure you'd enjoy: If LeBron wanted to come, there’s a 0% chance the Lakers would turn him down, just so they could gamble on Boogie eventually getting back to 80% of what he used to be. No one would. Not even Boogie’s mother. An 80% version of Boogie is not worth the max. Even punting the cap space for 2019 to fill the other max slot is a better option than that. Eventually, you're going to have to let go of this Cousins dream. He tore his Achilles. You're stubbornly clinging to it instead of just letting it go. Bringing Lopez back (who’s a way better fit than an 80% version of Cousins) on a cheaper deal while also getting LeBron is what anyone who doesn't have an emotional attachment to Cousins would do.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:21 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
^^^... I just wanted to continue the trend.


what you did was disrespectful...."don't buy into it?"...Like my reputation is causing problems for Stu on this board?....like I don't talk to this guy every day? I seriously doubt he felt disrespected in any way, and there was no need for you to attempt to talk around me....as if your thoughts or emplay's are some sort of confirmation.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:22 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
And the Nets weren't trading for Carroll thinking he'd help them. It was bad money, and the motivation was to use their cap space to get assets.


this is not accurate....the Nets were claiming from the beginning that they thought Carroll would fit well with what they were doing....Carroll was never "dead money"....he played 26 MPG (72 games) for Toronto last year. There is nothing similar in regards to Carroll and Deng.


And Atkinson had worked with him at the Hawks. They thought Carroll would be useful when healthy.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Last year, I was beating the drum for Mozgov being traded to the Nets, with us getting back Lopez. I didn't have the exact trade right (I certainly didn't foresee Dlo in the deal, nor did I see us getting back a 1st), but I had the temperature of the room, so to speak. Adkindo, I'm asking you to trust my temperature-taking again lol. I think Deng will end up getting traded to Atlanta along with two 1st's, one of those being this year's CLE pick.


you and I are probably in the 60-40 range of issue agreeing.....maybe 70-30.....so it's not shocking or anything wrong that we disagree.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:24 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
^^^... I just wanted to continue the trend.


what you did was disrespectful...."don't buy into it?"...Like my reputation is causing problems for Stu on this board?....like I don't talk to this guy every day? I seriously doubt he felt disrespected in any way, and there was no need for you to attempt to talk around me....as if your thoughts or emplay's are some sort of confirmation.


Let's calm down. I didn't take it as disrespect, nor did LS mean to insult, I can assure you. We're all good.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:24 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Question: If we accomplish 2 max plan would it be the first time in history in signing 2 superstar FAs? I’m assuming it is which will make the Pelinka and Magic the best GM and Executive tandem in the league.


For people born after 2014, yes.


I meant Lakers history, I know Miami got Bosh and LeBron in 2010.


So then you almost meant Magic and Pelinka being the best executive tandem on the Lakers?


Yep, but even a argument for both being the best talent evaluators in the league.




If the Free Agents that are signed have already been identified and labeled as superstars by most if not all observers across the league, when does the talent evaluator part come in for Magic and Pelinka?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:25 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
but I'm guessing it will end up being Deng plus the CLE pick and a '20 1st, and possibly with the $5.2MM in cash.


at a minimum in my opinion....think some other asset like Kuzma or Hart would have to included....because those will be expected to be lower value 1st Rounders.


Nah, two first rounders is already above market value... asking for Hart or Kuzma would be ridiculous. I guarantee you there are more than a few teams who wouldn't hesitate to take on Deng if they could get two first round picks. That's worst case scenario - a first, a second (or two) and cash is probably the most likely scenario.

Keep in mind that last year, the Toronto traded Carroll (2 years, $30 million) to Brooklyn - it only cost them their 2019 lottery protected 1st round pick (which was projected to be somewhere in the 24-30 range at the time) and a second round pick. Last summer, the Nets were pretty much the only game in town to absorb contracts. This summer, there will be multiple rebuilding teams who can absorb Deng (Chicago, Atlanta, Phoenix, Indiana, Sacramento, Dallas, etc.). Deng only makes $3 million a year more than Carroll and will only have the same 2 years left this summer. Cleveland's pick is likely better than the one Toronto gave up, making no mention of giving them 2 picks (Denver 2018 and Chicago 2019) plus cash. Its just ridiculous to think we'd have to attach Hart or Kuzma.

I think, barring a $20+ million offer from Dallas, the Lakers keep Randle regardless of what happens this summer. We'll pay him $18 million a year if need be. I'm relatively positive that George comes here. The real wildcard is Lebron, who I think leaves, but who will choose from us, Houston or Philadelphia.


I disagree....Carroll starts for Brooklyn, and Deng is dead money for 2 years.....Caroll's value is actually near his contract (starting forward). I will stick with 2 first rounds picks at a minimum...but it could even take more.


Brooklyn was also uniquely un-incentevized (for a lottery team) to not lose since Boston gets their pick. For a team like Atlanta, Deng is the perfect Great Teammate that produces without actually helping your team win, keeping you in lotto range. And remember one of those picks was a second. We're talking a second first-- three extra years of salary control. If the Lakers add cash as well, its better than what BK was "paid."
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Question: If we accomplish 2 max plan would it be the first time in history in signing 2 superstar FAs? I’m assuming it is which will make the Pelinka and Magic the best GM and Executive tandem in the league.


For people born after 2014, yes.


I meant Lakers history, I know Miami got Bosh and LeBron in 2010.


So then you almost meant Magic and Pelinka being the best executive tandem on the Lakers?


Yep, but even a argument for both being the best talent evaluators in the league.




If the Free Agents that are signed have already been identified and labeled as superstars by most if not all observers across the league, when does the talent evaluator part come in for Magic and Pelinka?



Yeah not sure what Maginka sees in this LeBron guy. Maybe GT can make a video showing what (if anything) he is good at and how he might fit on the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
adkindo wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
^^^... I just wanted to continue the trend.


what you did was disrespectful...."don't buy into it?"...Like my reputation is causing problems for Stu on this board?....like I don't talk to this guy every day? I seriously doubt he felt disrespected in any way, and there was no need for you to attempt to talk around me....as if your thoughts or emplay's are some sort of confirmation.


Let's calm down. I didn't take it as disrespect, nor did LS mean to insult, I can assure you. We're all good.


Yep. If I wanted to be disrespectful, I'd be much more direct. I was simply supporting CS and his initial instincts regarding his evaluation of the situation. That was all.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:29 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
adkindo wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
but I'm guessing it will end up being Deng plus the CLE pick and a '20 1st, and possibly with the $5.2MM in cash.


at a minimum in my opinion....think some other asset like Kuzma or Hart would have to included....because those will be expected to be lower value 1st Rounders.


Nah, two first rounders is already above market value... asking for Hart or Kuzma would be ridiculous. I guarantee you there are more than a few teams who wouldn't hesitate to take on Deng if they could get two first round picks. That's worst case scenario - a first, a second (or two) and cash is probably the most likely scenario.

Keep in mind that last year, the Toronto traded Carroll (2 years, $30 million) to Brooklyn - it only cost them their 2019 lottery protected 1st round pick (which was projected to be somewhere in the 24-30 range at the time) and a second round pick. Last summer, the Nets were pretty much the only game in town to absorb contracts. This summer, there will be multiple rebuilding teams who can absorb Deng (Chicago, Atlanta, Phoenix, Indiana, Sacramento, Dallas, etc.). Deng only makes $3 million a year more than Carroll and will only have the same 2 years left this summer. Cleveland's pick is likely better than the one Toronto gave up, making no mention of giving them 2 picks (Denver 2018 and Chicago 2019) plus cash. Its just ridiculous to think we'd have to attach Hart or Kuzma.

I think, barring a $20+ million offer from Dallas, the Lakers keep Randle regardless of what happens this summer. We'll pay him $18 million a year if need be. I'm relatively positive that George comes here. The real wildcard is Lebron, who I think leaves, but who will choose from us, Houston or Philadelphia.


I disagree....Carroll starts for Brooklyn, and Deng is dead money for 2 years.....Caroll's value is actually near his contract (starting forward). I will stick with 2 first rounds picks at a minimum...but it could even take more.


Once again, at the time the Nets were not getting Carroll for any basketball-playing value. I grant you that Deng's contract is more onerous, but if the money is similar, I don't see how a team like Atlanta couldn't justify taking not just the CLE pick, but also another future 1st. And we could also throw in another 2nd if absolutely necessary.

I would be flat-out stunned if we were unable to trade Deng.
Deng, Cavs pick, 2020 Lakers 1st (unprotected), 2019 Bulls 2nd and 5.2 million in cash to Chicago for Asik seems fair. If we are able to do that on draft day, we should jump on it. This way, when free agency comes, we dont have to worry about making a deal all last minute. We could just focus on signing the fee agents.
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LakerLogic
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:32 pm    Post subject:

Deng only has 2 years left after this year. It shouldn't be that hard to move him.
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