OFFICIAL 2017-18 FREE AGENCY/TRADES THREAD
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:50 pm    Post subject:

Scratch Boston and Philadelphia off that list of possible landing spots for James. Bad fit in Philadelphia. Boston’s pretty obvious.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:50 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
if somehow george gets traded to lakers and he does not opt out, are the lakers able to give him an extension AFTER signing the other free agents in the summer? can the extension give him a raise for 2018?



You asked about an extension, but what you described for the 2018 - 19 season appears to be more of a renegotiation.


59. Can existing contracts be renegotiated?

Quote:

A contract for four or more seasons can be renegotiated after the third anniversary of its signing, extension, or previous renegotiation (if the previous negotiation increased any season's salary by more than 5%). Contracts for fewer than four seasons cannot be renegotiated. A contract cannot be renegotiated between March 1 and June 30 of any year.

Only teams under the cap can renegotiate a contract, and the salary in the then-current season can be increased only to the extent that the team has room under the cap
(and cannot increase the player's salary beyond the maximum salary). A renegotiation can only be used to provide a salary increase -- players can't take a "pay cut" in order to create more cap room for the team...

...A renegotiated contract can be extended simultaneously (see question number 58). If a player's contract is extended and renegotiated simultaneously in this manner, his salary may not decrease by more than 40% from the last season before the extension (after it is renegotiated) to the first season of the extension. For example, if the salary in the last season of a contract is renegotiated to $10 million and the contract is simultaneously extended, the salary in the first season of the extension cannot be less than $6 million.

Other rules for renegotiations:

A signing bonus cannot accompany a renegotiation unless the contract is extended simultaneously (see question number 58).

A renegotiation cannot lead to any season having an unlikely bonus greater than 15% of the player's regular salary for that season.

A rookie scale contract (see question number 47) cannot be renegotiated.

A contract cannot be renegotiated in conjunction with a trade.

Two-Way contracts (see question number 82) cannot be renegotiated.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:53 pm    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
if somehow george gets traded to lakers and he does not opt out, are the lakers able to give him an extension AFTER signing the other free agents in the summer? can the extension give him a raise for 2018?



You asked about an extension, but what you described for the 2018 - 19 season appears to be more of a renegotiation.


59. Can existing contracts be renegotiated?

Quote:

A contract for four or more seasons can be renegotiated after the third anniversary of its signing, extension, or previous renegotiation (if the previous negotiation increased any season's salary by more than 5%). Contracts for fewer than four seasons cannot be renegotiated. A contract cannot be renegotiated between March 1 and June 30 of any year.

Only teams under the cap can renegotiate a contract, and the salary in the then-current season can be increased only to the extent that the team has room under the cap
(and cannot increase the player's salary beyond the maximum salary). A renegotiation can only be used to provide a salary increase -- players can't take a "pay cut" in order to create more cap room for the team...

...A renegotiated contract can be extended simultaneously (see question number 58). If a player's contract is extended and renegotiated simultaneously in this manner, his salary may not decrease by more than 40% from the last season before the extension (after it is renegotiated) to the first season of the extension. For example, if the salary in the last season of a contract is renegotiated to $10 million and the contract is simultaneously extended, the salary in the first season of the extension cannot be less than $6 million.

Other rules for renegotiations:

A signing bonus cannot accompany a renegotiation unless the contract is extended simultaneously (see question number 58).

A renegotiation cannot lead to any season having an unlikely bonus greater than 15% of the player's regular salary for that season.

A rookie scale contract (see question number 47) cannot be renegotiated.

A contract cannot be renegotiated in conjunction with a trade.

Two-Way contracts (see question number 82) cannot be renegotiated.


Thanks, no loophole...
I was thinking we trade for him, he does not opt out, and then later in the summer we give him a max extension that raises 2018 to 31M.
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Robster8989
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Robster8989 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
By the way Robster, you are one who I believe reads the OKC situation correctly. I think they prefer to re-sign George but would rather him walk than to take salary in return.


Why thank you, sir.
I think this 3 star idea is HIGHLY unlikely, just that it is possible.
But yes, the best scenario for them is to resign obviously. Next best is to get cap relief, and picks, and the opt in and trade option does give them that.
The tricky thing for our FO is do you risk moving good players, like JC and JR, for the possibility of hitting it big in FA. Then what if you whiff? I know that is you're concern as a longtime Laker fan.

If the only thing lost is Clarkson, I’d say they gave it the old college try, then turn the page with youth.

But losing Clarkson (and Russell) is worth the chance at James and George, especially this summer. There will be very few teams that will be players in free agency this summer — much less competition.


I agree.
Even if we just get PG, and have cap left to go after B free agents that fit (like Avery Bradley, JJ Redick etc), I'd still consider the off season a success.
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Robster8989
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:00 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Robster8989 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
By the way Robster, you are one who I believe reads the OKC situation correctly. I think they prefer to re-sign George but would rather him walk than to take salary in return.


Why thank you, sir.
I think this 3 star idea is HIGHLY unlikely, just that it is possible.
But yes, the best scenario for them is to resign obviously. Next best is to get cap relief, and picks, and the opt in and trade option does give them that.
The tricky thing for our FO is do you risk moving good players, like JC and JR, for the possibility of hitting it big in FA. Then what if you whiff? I know that is you're concern as a longtime Laker fan.

If the only thing lost is Clarkson, I’d say they gave it the old college try, then turn the page with youth.

But losing Clarkson (and Russell) is worth the chance at James and George, especially this summer. There will be very few teams that will be players in free agency this summer — much less competition.


Joe, VLF, thank you for the good conversation.
I appreciate both of your opinions!

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adkindo
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:09 pm    Post subject:

Robster8989 wrote:
I agree.
Even if we just get PG, and have cap left to go after B free agents that fit (like Avery Bradley, JJ Redick etc), I'd still consider the off season a success.


as I have stated before....I would love to sign Paul George....get Deng to take a buyout (<$30M) and stretch him.....keep Randle or Clarkson.....a find a way to fit both KCP and Noel into the equation. They would both have to fit into about $22M-$24M.

The other option would be to keep Randle and Clarkson....and one of KCP or Noel.
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durden-tyler
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:18 pm    Post subject:

Like KCP and Noel, but they are not players for championship teams IMO, at least not at the salary they will ask for, probably around 20M$...
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:21 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Cleveland is “fading” because of age. Theyre old — one of the reasons he left Miami.

Every time there’s been a question of JAmes leaving a team, he has.

So I think the question should really be where he’ll go, not if he’ll go.


yeah but what if Cleveland never loses their pick and it becomes the Number 1 pick? That would pretty much be leverage and then they don't have to worry about paying Isaiah Thomas.

Stuff like that matters.

Imagine if Cleveland got Ayton or Bagley or had them or Doncic as a trade chip....

Excellent point. The question becomes is James and Love with Ayton/Bagley better than James and George with Kuzma ... Ingram ... Randle ... and Ball.

The Lakers are still a better option than Cleveland even with the pick.
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greek laker
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:50 pm    Post subject:

after 4 painful years of watching this forum, it was about time to register.
i think our main focus should be to sign cousins and keep all the young guns.
We should take a look at PG and LBJ without tearing apart our young core. of
course if you can sign two max, its ok, we are immediately back to the road of winning but we shouldnt wait somatrhing like that to happen. We already took a step back with the despicable signings of Deng and Moz, which cost us D Angelo. If that was the price ok even though i m not sure if Maginka really had to pull the trigger. Right now from that point, give time to coach and team. Eventually it will come down to 2 possible scenarios.
1) An all star player decides to sign. It will happen, the only question is when. 2018?2019?2020?It will happen, until then keep and develop your young players and stop giving rental players big playing time.
2) Via draft we will eventually find that cornerstone player, even if we take as granted that BI and Lonzo are not that cornerstone.
Until then , please MAGINKA dont do anything crazy, we already have a bull
in a chinese shop (JR), we dont need a F.O. like that too!
Hi , LG , i hope that there will be a time, when Lonzo and Brandon will getting ready for the traditional champions parade and i ll be thinking these dark days of December 2017, when i first wrote my thoughts here
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lakerlynx
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:29 pm    Post subject:

greek laker wrote:
after 4 painful years of watching this forum, it was about time to register.
i think our main focus should be to sign cousins and keep all the young guns.
We should take a look at PG and LBJ without tearing apart our young core. of
course if you can sign two max, its ok, we are immediately back to the road of winning but we shouldnt wait somatrhing like that to happen. We already took a step back with the despicable signings of Deng and Moz, which cost us D Angelo. If that was the price ok even though i m not sure if Maginka really had to pull the trigger. Right now from that point, give time to coach and team. Eventually it will come down to 2 possible scenarios.
1) An all star player decides to sign. It will happen, the only question is when. 2018?2019?2020?It will happen, until then keep and develop your young players and stop giving rental players big playing time.
2) Via draft we will eventually find that cornerstone player, even if we take as granted that BI and Lonzo are not that cornerstone.
Until then , please MAGINKA dont do anything crazy, we already have a bull
in a chinese shop (JR), we dont need a F.O. like that too!
Hi , LG , i hope that there will be a time, when Lonzo and Brandon will getting ready for the traditional champions parade and i ll be thinking these dark days of December 2017, when i first wrote my thoughts here


Welcome!
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scoobs
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:10 pm    Post subject:

lakerlynx wrote:
greek laker wrote:
after 4 painful years of watching this forum, it was about time to register.
i think our main focus should be to sign cousins and keep all the young guns.
We should take a look at PG and LBJ without tearing apart our young core. of
course if you can sign two max, its ok, we are immediately back to the road of winning but we shouldnt wait somatrhing like that to happen. We already took a step back with the despicable signings of Deng and Moz, which cost us D Angelo. If that was the price ok even though i m not sure if Maginka really had to pull the trigger. Right now from that point, give time to coach and team. Eventually it will come down to 2 possible scenarios.
1) An all star player decides to sign. It will happen, the only question is when. 2018?2019?2020?It will happen, until then keep and develop your young players and stop giving rental players big playing time.
2) Via draft we will eventually find that cornerstone player, even if we take as granted that BI and Lonzo are not that cornerstone.
Until then , please MAGINKA dont do anything crazy, we already have a bull
in a chinese shop (JR), we dont need a F.O. like that too!
Hi , LG , i hope that there will be a time, when Lonzo and Brandon will getting ready for the traditional champions parade and i ll be thinking these dark days of December 2017, when i first wrote my thoughts here


Welcome!
Come on man!!! That guy ain't new. He is one of the LG regulars acting like they made a second account. It was a great try...now..who is it?
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greek laker
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:22 pm    Post subject:

i dont know if thats a compliment but i ll take it. I thought my bad english would be enough to prove i m new member! Maybe i look like an old member
because i watch that forum for so long but believe me my greeklish will persuade you!
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matigol
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:39 pm    Post subject:

durden-tyler wrote:
Like KCP and Noel, but they are not players for championship teams IMO, at least not at the salary they will ask for, probably around 20M$...


Noel doesn't fit Lakers Fans. He would be destroyed here within a few days. He misses frequently shots from 2 feet auround the rim.

Offensively he's so bleeping bad, that would make LNJ look like Porzingis.

And his reputation as a "not hard working" player, would concern me.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:43 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
MJST wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Cleveland is “fading” because of age. Theyre old — one of the reasons he left Miami.

Every time there’s been a question of JAmes leaving a team, he has.

So I think the question should really be where he’ll go, not if he’ll go.


yeah but what if Cleveland never loses their pick and it becomes the Number 1 pick? That would pretty much be leverage and then they don't have to worry about paying Isaiah Thomas.

Stuff like that matters.

Imagine if Cleveland got Ayton or Bagley or had them or Doncic as a trade chip....

Excellent point. The question becomes is James and Love with Ayton/Bagley better than James and George with Kuzma ... Ingram ... Randle ... and Ball.

The Lakers are still a better option than Cleveland even with the pick.


No they aren't. Not in terms of LeBron wanting to go to the Finals every year.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:47 am    Post subject:

scoobs wrote:
lakerlynx wrote:
greek laker wrote:
after 4 painful years of watching this forum, it was about time to register.
i think our main focus should be to sign cousins and keep all the young guns.
We should take a look at PG and LBJ without tearing apart our young core. of
course if you can sign two max, its ok, we are immediately back to the road of winning but we shouldnt wait somatrhing like that to happen. We already took a step back with the despicable signings of Deng and Moz, which cost us D Angelo. If that was the price ok even though i m not sure if Maginka really had to pull the trigger. Right now from that point, give time to coach and team. Eventually it will come down to 2 possible scenarios.
1) An all star player decides to sign. It will happen, the only question is when. 2018?2019?2020?It will happen, until then keep and develop your young players and stop giving rental players big playing time.
2) Via draft we will eventually find that cornerstone player, even if we take as granted that BI and Lonzo are not that cornerstone.
Until then , please MAGINKA dont do anything crazy, we already have a bull
in a chinese shop (JR), we dont need a F.O. like that too!
Hi , LG , i hope that there will be a time, when Lonzo and Brandon will getting ready for the traditional champions parade and i ll be thinking these dark days of December 2017, when i first wrote my thoughts here


Welcome!
Come on man!!! That guy ain't new. He is one of the LG regulars acting like they made a second account. It was a great try...now..who is it?


I remember being accused of maybe being Dave 2.0 when I was new.. Maybe he really is a new member.
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ToastedMuffins
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:52 am    Post subject:

matigol wrote:
durden-tyler wrote:
Like KCP and Noel, but they are not players for championship teams IMO, at least not at the salary they will ask for, probably around 20M$...


Noel doesn't fit Lakers Fans. He would be destroyed here within a few days. He misses frequently shots from 2 feet auround the rim.

Offensively he's so bleeping bad, that would make LNJ look like Porzingis.

And his reputation as a "not hard working" player, would concern me.


The only thing that concerns me about Noel is his injury history. Noel would quite possibly be the best defensive player on our team. His offensive issues this season could be attributed to the somewhat toxic situation and lack of talent around him he's suffering in Dallas because he was not having these issues last year in Philadelphia whatsoever.
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:54 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
MJST wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Cleveland is “fading” because of age. Theyre old — one of the reasons he left Miami.

Every time there’s been a question of JAmes leaving a team, he has.

So I think the question should really be where he’ll go, not if he’ll go.


yeah but what if Cleveland never loses their pick and it becomes the Number 1 pick? That would pretty much be leverage and then they don't have to worry about paying Isaiah Thomas.

Stuff like that matters.

Imagine if Cleveland got Ayton or Bagley or had them or Doncic as a trade chip....

Excellent point. The question becomes is James and Love with Ayton/Bagley better than James and George with Kuzma ... Ingram ... Randle ... and Ball.

The Lakers are still a better option than Cleveland even with the pick.


No they aren't. Not in terms of LeBron wanting to go to the Finals every year.

James signs in L.A. The league eliminates conference playoff seeding. Mark my words.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:01 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
MJST wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
MJST wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Cleveland is “fading” because of age. Theyre old — one of the reasons he left Miami.

Every time there’s been a question of JAmes leaving a team, he has.

So I think the question should really be where he’ll go, not if he’ll go.


yeah but what if Cleveland never loses their pick and it becomes the Number 1 pick? That would pretty much be leverage and then they don't have to worry about paying Isaiah Thomas.

Stuff like that matters.

Imagine if Cleveland got Ayton or Bagley or had them or Doncic as a trade chip....

Excellent point. The question becomes is James and Love with Ayton/Bagley better than James and George with Kuzma ... Ingram ... Randle ... and Ball.

The Lakers are still a better option than Cleveland even with the pick.


No they aren't. Not in terms of LeBron wanting to go to the Finals every year.

James signs in L.A. The league eliminates conference playoff seeding. Mark my words.


Not happening
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MJST
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:03 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Scratch Boston and Philadelphia off that list of possible landing spots for James. Bad fit in Philadelphia. Boston’s pretty obvious.


Why is Philadelphia a bad fit for LeBron considering all the talent on that team and the fact the majority of it is on rookie contracts?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:12 am    Post subject:

If we could sign only PG and Avery while keeping Randle and Clarkson, I would be ecstatic. We get a bonafide #1, get lonzo the help he desperately deserves (clarkson could eat up the backup PG minutes while Avery backs up PG), and can finally start Kuz and Randle!! Do the numbers make this possible?
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:12 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Scratch Boston and Philadelphia off that list of possible landing spots for James. Bad fit in Philadelphia. Boston’s pretty obvious.


Why is Philadelphia a bad fit for LeBron considering all the talent on that team and the fact the majority of it is on rookie contracts?

It’s not the talent on Philadelphia. It’s the fit for James.
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:16 am    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
If we could sign only PG and Avery while keeping Randle and Clarkson, I would be ecstatic. We get a bonafide #1, get lonzo the help he desperately deserves (clarkson could eat up the backup PG minutes while Avery backs up PG), and can finally start Kuz and Randle!! Do the numbers make this possible?

Yes, if Avery Bradley doesn’t make more than 23 mill the first year, it is possible.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:23 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
MJST wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Scratch Boston and Philadelphia off that list of possible landing spots for James. Bad fit in Philadelphia. Boston’s pretty obvious.


Why is Philadelphia a bad fit for LeBron considering all the talent on that team and the fact the majority of it is on rookie contracts?

It’s not the talent on Philadelphia. It’s the fit for James.


How is it not a fit?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:37 am    Post subject:

Simmons and James’ games are not complimentary.

With both of their high usage, ball dominant, primary ball-handler ways, neither one would add to the other. James would slow down Simmons’ progress as a “real PG”, and Simmons is incapable of knocking down kickout jumpers from James — bad fit.

Paul George is a super fit for them, but not James.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:11 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Simmons and James’ games are not complimentary.

With both of their high usage, ball dominant, primary ball-handler ways, neither one would add to the other. James would slow down Simmons’ progress as a “real PG”, and Simmons is incapable of knocking down kickout jumpers from James — bad fit.

Paul George is a super fit for them, but not James.


Tbh Paul George and LeBron James would be a great fit in Philly if they were going for a two max plan themselves.

That said, LeBron could and would find a way to fit on Philly, especially given the talent that team already has and the kind of talent that's growing on it.

Paul George to Philly is an interesting idea though, you'd replace Redick with George essentially

So...
Markelle Fultz
Paul George
Robert Covington
Ben Simmons
Joel Embiid

I think that would be the lineup. With Saric coming off the bench. Would be solid in the East that's for sure.

Then again

Markelle Fultz
Robert Covington
Ben Simmons
LeBron James
Joel Embiid

Also fits. You see.. the harsh reality is that though you keep hearing "But LeBron needs to drive to the basket to be effective." the cold harsh reality is.. he's shooting 43% from three this year on 5 attempts per game

So yes..... he'll fit wherever he chose to be, if it is Philly, he'd fit there too.
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