Sexual Harassment Accusations (9/18: Les Moonves resigns)
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The Lebrons
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:10 am    Post subject:

He should've run for President, that's a prerequisite now I hear.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:17 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ok, to be clear...not suggesting that one "tribe" actually is involved in these matters more than the other.....slime balls in every tribe, but my reference was related to the aftermath of the events.


There hasn’t been an aftermath yet, at least for Weinstein. This whole thing has been brought to light by the mainstream media, and the Huff is still hyper-ventilating about the whole thing. Just as other posters are quick to suggest a racial component, you’re quick to suggest a political component.

But there are other components that are more important. As I pointed out to Jodeke, Cosby is accused of doing things that are more disgusting by at least an order of magnitude. This is why he is facing jail time. I handle sexual harassment cases. While I won’t say that the conduct of Weinstein, Ailes, and O’Reilly is commonplace, there is enough of it that lawyers like me are kept busy.

Likewise, fame is a component. If you’d asked me a week ago, I wouldn’t have been sure who Harvey Weinstein was. Like a lot of people, I read the article and thought “Oh, that guy.” The furor about Weinstein will die down in a few days because few people really care about him. That’s not true about O’Reilly or, say, Mel Gibson.

Available consequences are a component, too. Cosby crossed the line into possible criminal liability. The others did not. Sponsors could be pressured into pulling ads from Fox News and The O’Reilly Factor. Weinstein will face consequences, but they won’t be so visible and immediate. Few people even know who produced a movie.

Are politics a factor? In contemporary America, politics are always a factor. While I question your claim that politics played a large role with Bill Cosby (who is accused of drugging women and having non-consensual sex with them), I have no doubt that a lot of people reveled in the Fox News scandals (not that this made them any less lurid). Politics may color the reaction to Weinstein in some way, but as of now, he is being called to account by bastions of conservatism like the Huff.

For some people in Hollywood, Weinstein will become a pariah. However, he has one thing going for him: He’s the guy who can get movies made. His economic power will protect him more than his politics. But make no mistake about it — he will not go unscathed, whether you see it or not.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:19 am    Post subject:

The Lebrons wrote:
He should've run for President, that's a prerequisite now I hear.


it was definitely on the "ok" list in the 1992 & 1996 Presidential Election. Actually the allegations against Clinton are far worse than those against Trump.....but the main stream media, Hollywood elites, Wall Street and liberals everywhere admire and celebrate him.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:19 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
slime balls in every tribe, but my reference was related to the aftermath of the events.


Thank goodness Fox fired O'Reilly the second they heard about his behavior and didn't spend millions of dollars quietly settling several lawsuits.


did Fox pay those, or did O'Reilly himself? Either way, I was done with that guy before those allegations became public. He had just been caught in too many lies....the one where he claimed to be at the door when that guy who was suspected to be linked to Oswald shot himself in the head.....but it was later confirmed he was nowhere near South Florida the day that took place.....broke the camels back for me.

The point is once the story broke, it was heavily reported in the news with extreme criticism by the media....his career as a national conservative news commentator is pretty much over, and I have not seen Republican and Conservative public figures demanding Fox put him back on the air, nor is he being celebrated by the media or conservatives.

you kind of made my point with Bill O'Reily....let's see where Weinstein is in a year or two. As I said, my guess is he will be making major movies, attending all of the elite Hollywood parties, walking up on stage accepting awards, doing interviews in the main stream media, and funding democratic campaigns and liberal causes.


Fox paid the suits. 5 of them. They kept him on the air all those years. One of them was made very public at the time and they still kept him on. When the NYT recently broke the story about the others, they continued to keep him on air. Only after organized efforts to pressure his sponsors, and Fox started losing money, did they cut him loose. His career as a conservative commentator is most certainly not over. He already is back doing appearances on other Fox shows, has a best-selling book out, and is in negotiations to provide content to multiple platforms.

This is a complex issue that has more to do with men in positions of unchecked power than it does with how those men vote. In general, people that can generate money for big corporations tend to receive protection and cover. Your partisan hackery doesn't lend itself well to this subject and should probably be reserved for the political thread rather than injecting it into other threads.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:29 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
slime balls in every tribe, but my reference was related to the aftermath of the events.


Thank goodness Fox fired O'Reilly the second they heard about his behavior and didn't spend millions of dollars quietly settling several lawsuits.


did Fox pay those, or did O'Reilly himself? Either way, I was done with that guy before those allegations became public. He had just been caught in too many lies....the one where he claimed to be at the door when that guy who was suspected to be linked to Oswald shot himself in the head.....but it was later confirmed he was nowhere near South Florida the day that took place.....broke the camels back for me.

The point is once the story broke, it was heavily reported in the news with extreme criticism by the media....his career as a national conservative news commentator is pretty much over, and I have not seen Republican and Conservative public figures demanding Fox put him back on the air, nor is he being celebrated by the media or conservatives.

you kind of made my point with Bill O'Reily....let's see where Weinstein is in a year or two. As I said, my guess is he will be making major movies, attending all of the elite Hollywood parties, walking up on stage accepting awards, doing interviews in the main stream media, and funding democratic campaigns and liberal causes.


You're probably right and we'll also likely see a form of liberal privilege being applied here.

But I will say, it wouldn't entirely surprise or even bother me. I mean, it's not uncommon for certain groups to want to protect their own more than others, I think it's natural, even if hypocritical. In this case, I'm speaking of the entertainment world but also the left. Of course they will want to protect their own but to a certain degree. While those on the poles love to point out each other's hypocrisies, I think we'd be better off accepting that even though people are generally going to look out for "their own" that doesn't necessarily mean they hate the other side either. What will likely happen in terms of reaction to Weinstein isn't limited to the left or the entertainment world. It's all groups, is my point so what's the point really in pointing out the different treatment? We all do it, IMO.

FWIW, I think O'Reilly is a better analog to this situation than Cosby. Cosby committed a crime. Weinstein is just a <bleep>.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:30 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Likewise, fame is a component. If you’d asked me a week ago, I wouldn’t have been sure who Harvey Weinstein was. Like a lot of people, I read the article and thought “Oh, that guy.” The furor about Weinstein will die down in a few days because few people really care about him. That’s not true about O’Reilly or, say, Mel Gibson.


I am pretty sure most people that follow politics closely are very familiar with Harvey Weinstein....for decades he has not been shy about making his political opinions very public....and was always a close supporter of the Clintons and especially Obama.

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Are politics a factor? In contemporary America, politics are always a factor. While I question your claim that politics played a large role with Bill Cosby (who is accused of drugging women and having non-consensual sex with them), I have no doubt that a lot of people reveled in the Fox News scandals (not that this made them any less lurid). Politics may color the reaction to Weinstein in some way, but as of now, he is being called to account by bastions of conservatism like the Huff.


not sure what to tell you about Cosby, but he had very little love in the media and liberal circles for his public statements about the black community. Sure it is only speculation on the reaction, because we only know what actually happened....but I have no doubts if he never made those opinions known, he would have had defenders in the media and Hollywood.

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
For some people in Hollywood, Weinstein will become a pariah. However, he has one thing going for him: He’s the guy who can get movies made. His economic power will protect him more than his politics. But make no mistake about it — he will not go unscathed, whether you see it or not.


time will tell....like I said, I think it will be life as usual for him within 12 months.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:38 am    Post subject:

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not sure what to tell you about Cosby, but he had very little love in the media and liberal circles for his public statements about the black community.


Yeah the libruhl elite hated Cosby so much he only had a Netflix special and a new NBC series in the works until the horde of women came forward.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:39 am    Post subject:

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That’s not true about O’Reilly or, say, Mel Gibson.


Mel Gibson btw is back to making movies, being nominated for Oscars, and is starring in an upcoming family comedy.
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The Lebrons
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:40 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
He should've run for President, that's a prerequisite now I hear.


it was definitely on the "ok" list in the 1992 & 1996 Presidential Election. Actually the allegations against Clinton are far worse than those against Trump.....but the main stream media, Hollywood elites, Wall Street and liberals everywhere admire and celebrate him.


Lol, so defensive, Thanks Fox.

My point was it's funny how Weinstein and others recently have lost their jobs, been publicly shamed, etc. due to sexual harassment or assault allegations, yet Trump is our President. The standard of behavior and morality is higher for everyone else than the President it seems. What a time to be alive.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:40 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
slime balls in every tribe, but my reference was related to the aftermath of the events.


Thank goodness Fox fired O'Reilly the second they heard about his behavior and didn't spend millions of dollars quietly settling several lawsuits.


did Fox pay those, or did O'Reilly himself? Either way, I was done with that guy before those allegations became public. He had just been caught in too many lies....the one where he claimed to be at the door when that guy who was suspected to be linked to Oswald shot himself in the head.....but it was later confirmed he was nowhere near South Florida the day that took place.....broke the camels back for me.

The point is once the story broke, it was heavily reported in the news with extreme criticism by the media....his career as a national conservative news commentator is pretty much over, and I have not seen Republican and Conservative public figures demanding Fox put him back on the air, nor is he being celebrated by the media or conservatives.

you kind of made my point with Bill O'Reily....let's see where Weinstein is in a year or two. As I said, my guess is he will be making major movies, attending all of the elite Hollywood parties, walking up on stage accepting awards, doing interviews in the main stream media, and funding democratic campaigns and liberal causes.


Fox paid the suits. 5 of them. They kept him on the air all those years. One of them was made very public at the time and they still kept him on. When the NYT recently broke the story about the others, they continued to keep him on air. Only after organized efforts to pressure his sponsors, and Fox started losing money, did they cut him loose. His career as a conservative commentator is most certainly not over. He already is back doing appearances on other Fox shows, has a best-selling book out, and is in negotiations to provide content to multiple platforms.

This is a complex issue that has more to do with men in positions of unchecked power than it does with how those men vote. In general, people that can generate money for big corporations tend to receive protection and cover. Your partisan hackery doesn't lend itself well to this subject and should probably be reserved for the political thread rather than injecting it into other threads.


I was reading and respecting your response...until the last line. Those repulsive type of ignorant comments is why I do not hang out in the political forum. For you to complain about "partisan hackery" is a joke in itself.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:44 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ocho wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
slime balls in every tribe, but my reference was related to the aftermath of the events.


Thank goodness Fox fired O'Reilly the second they heard about his behavior and didn't spend millions of dollars quietly settling several lawsuits.


did Fox pay those, or did O'Reilly himself? Either way, I was done with that guy before those allegations became public. He had just been caught in too many lies....the one where he claimed to be at the door when that guy who was suspected to be linked to Oswald shot himself in the head.....but it was later confirmed he was nowhere near South Florida the day that took place.....broke the camels back for me.

The point is once the story broke, it was heavily reported in the news with extreme criticism by the media....his career as a national conservative news commentator is pretty much over, and I have not seen Republican and Conservative public figures demanding Fox put him back on the air, nor is he being celebrated by the media or conservatives.

you kind of made my point with Bill O'Reily....let's see where Weinstein is in a year or two. As I said, my guess is he will be making major movies, attending all of the elite Hollywood parties, walking up on stage accepting awards, doing interviews in the main stream media, and funding democratic campaigns and liberal causes.


Fox paid the suits. 5 of them. They kept him on the air all those years. One of them was made very public at the time and they still kept him on. When the NYT recently broke the story about the others, they continued to keep him on air. Only after organized efforts to pressure his sponsors, and Fox started losing money, did they cut him loose. His career as a conservative commentator is most certainly not over. He already is back doing appearances on other Fox shows, has a best-selling book out, and is in negotiations to provide content to multiple platforms.

This is a complex issue that has more to do with men in positions of unchecked power than it does with how those men vote. In general, people that can generate money for big corporations tend to receive protection and cover. Your partisan hackery doesn't lend itself well to this subject and should probably be reserved for the political thread rather than injecting it into other threads.


I was reading and respecting your response...until the last line. Those repulsive type of ignorant comments is why I do not hang out in the political forum. For you to complain about "partisan hackery" is a joke in itself.


I will surely lose sleep. You injected your right wing politics into a discussion that wasn't political. This is an issue that is perpetuated and affected by people of all political stripes. Btw I think theres a place for your partisan hackery and it's the Political thread. Leaving droppings of it in non-political threads isn't great.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:51 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
I was reading and respecting your response...until the last line. Those repulsive type of ignorant comments is why I do not hang out in the political forum. For you to complain about "partisan hackery" is a joke in itself.


While I share your disdain for The Political Thread, the board rules do deserve respect. All political discussions are supposed to be in that thread. I’ve been guilty of straying across the line, too, and the mods have been tolerant up to a point. However, I think we should button this up.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:00 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
adkindo wrote:
I was reading and respecting your response...until the last line. Those repulsive type of ignorant comments is why I do not hang out in the political forum. For you to complain about "partisan hackery" is a joke in itself.


While I share your disdain for The Political Thread, the board rules do deserve respect. All political discussions are supposed to be in that thread. I’ve been guilty of straying across the line, too, and the mods have been tolerant up to a point. However, I think we should button this up.


As someone who is also guilty and thus isn't going to cast a lot of stones, yes, it is helpful if we keep politics in the politics thread, although itnis inevitable with some issues that end up with their own thread. But I do think we can discuss this one without having to resort to straight up partisanship.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:20 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
No, this is not the same as the Bill Cosby situation. There is no allegation to my knowledge that Weinstein drugged and sexually assaulted women.


And literally nobody was "acting like Cosby was the only one". That's a PnP original.

It has been a dark few weeks for the film community with scandals involving The Cinefamily, Alamo Drafthouse, and now this. Earlier in the year it was Fox News. There seems to be a poisonous trend with men in positions of unchecked power. The encouraging trend is that more and more, women aren't keeping their secrets anymore. Anyone behaving like this should be exposed, hopefully before they have the chance to do it for decades.
no they were acting like billy pill was the poster child. who do we think bill learned it from?

These stories were going around before his time and after. The entire country was in an uproar with that guys picture posted everywhere as if HE was the person you should think about when you think about this kind of thing in the entertainment industry. and thats far from the truth. there are plenty of creeps that should be lined up right along cosby. As i've said before on this issue. If those ladies that brought the bill stuff back up again really cared about women in general. They would've called the other names of creeps they dealt with in the industry because I know good and well bill was not the last one and for some not the first one they've dealt with.

Bring the entire industry down was all i was saying. Go at all of them since you have this momentum. Because we all know its a rampant thing and it surely was horrible back in the day. I'm not sure there were even sexual harassment rules for the workplace in the 70's.

But if you dont go at the entire industry knowing how bad they are as a whole, then I have to wonder...hmmm is it because Bill is black?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:27 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Quote:
That’s not true about O’Reilly or, say, Mel Gibson.


Mel Gibson btw is back to making movies, being nominated for Oscars, and is starring in an upcoming family comedy.


Yes, and it took him a long time to rehabilitate himself. This kind of behavior doesn't carry the death penalty. People can rehabilitate themselves. In the case of Gibson, Robert Downey, Jr. went to bat for him. There's someone who knows a thing or two about being down and out.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
That’s not true about O’Reilly or, say, Mel Gibson.


Mel Gibson btw is back to making movies, being nominated for Oscars, and is starring in an upcoming family comedy.


Yes, and it took him a long time to rehabilitate himself. This kind of behavior doesn't carry the death penalty. People can rehabilitate themselves. In the case of Gibson, Robert Downey, Jr. went to bat for him. There's someone who knows a thing or two about being down and out.


Downey was an addict, but other than passing out in a strangers house I don't remember much of an offense.

Gibson has an extensive history of domestic violence, racism, homophobia, and anti-semitism. If you can tell your wife you hope she gets r---d by a pack of n----s and punch her in the face so hard it knocks her teeth out and get nominated for an Oscar 6 years later youre pretty invincible. Especially when that's probably your 6th or 7th major offense. Gibson is about as vile as a person gets and has shown little actual remorse for any of this stuff. He tapdances but mostly gets defensive if asked about it. But he can direct a prestige movie and make people money, so to hell with it.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:01 pm    Post subject:

^^^^

Downey did go to prison, though I'm not going to pretend that drug crimes are heinous.

As for Gibson, my opinion of him was sealed when I heard an actress -- I think it was Winona Ryder but it might have been Natalie Portman -- tell a story about running into Gibson at a party and having him tell her one of those horrible Jewish jokes that involve the holocaust. But yeah, even someone like that can rehabilitate himself.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
jodeke wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
jodeke wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
No, this is not the same as the Bill Cosby situation. There is no allegation to my knowledge that Weinstein drugged and sexually assaulted women.

Sexual assault by any means is still sexual assault.


I don't know about that jodeke. No shades of gray?

Is Ezekiel Ellioty's shirt pulling the same as what Cosby did?

Perhaps both can be classified as sexual assault but I'd argue there are shades of gray at play here.

Shades of gray?

If you're killed with a bat or a bullet you'd be just as dead.

I take it you're not a female. If you were you might see it differently.


Are you a female?

Are you seriously telling me that what Ezekiel Elliott did pulling the womans shirt is equivalent to what Cosby did????

Nope, wasn't equating. I'm saying sexual harassment is sexual harassment.


What? Scroll up. You said "Sexual assault by any means is still sexual assault."

Both of the examples I provided are considered to be forms of sexual assault. I was just pointing out that your statement isn't really true, it's just one of those cliches we like to put out there today.

Typo, meant assault. It's a cliche in your world, not mine. AH addressed my stance and caused a change in my position. In your case I'm steadfast with sexual assault by any means is still sexual assault.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:20 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
This is a complex issue that has more to do with men in positions of unchecked power than it does with how those men vote. In general, people that can generate money for big corporations tend to receive protection and cover. Your partisan hackery doesn't lend itself well to this subject and should probably be reserved for the political thread rather than injecting it into other threads.


This can't be stressed enough.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Basketball Fan wrote:
Of course not
1) He's white
2) He's never had a clean reputation to begin with like Cosby who was America's Dad
3) He's a Behind the Scenes guy not on our TV screens every week like Bill.


LOL! The real reason he will not be treated the same way as Cosby...Weinstein is a far left liberal, and most of Hollywood and the main stream media will put as much lipstick on this pig as possible (pig is referring to the story, not the human).

Cosby was never a favorite of liberals for different positions he had taken over the years, mostly related to his positions and statements about African American communities (see Pound Cake Speech). Many on the left could not wait to bring down Cosby. Don't get me wrong, he deserved it for his actions, but not because of his opinions.

If you have any doubts, look no further than Roman Polanski....all he did was be convicted of sexually assaulting (the R word) a 13 year old girl, then flee the country. Beyond the conviction, there have been other allegations of sexual crimes against minors. Still he is close to and admired by many Hollywood liberals. Some examples are Meryl Streep stating that she was “very sorry that he’s in jail” recently when he was held while the US tried to extradite him. Many liberals openly supported his efforts to avoid extradition for the crime...including Harrison Ford, Debra Winger, Woody Allen, Martin Scorsese and yes....Harvey Weinstein. They literally gave the man a standing ovation after his 2002 film "The Pianist" won an Oscar. It was not enough to give a convicted child r apest an Oscar, but they stood and cheered him!

Do we even need to bring up Woody Allen? Jeffrey Epstein? Have you ever noticed how Bill Clinton's accusers are portrayed in comparison to Cosby's accusers?

As long as Weinstein keeps spouting liberal dogma and writing big checks....he likely has nothing to worry about.


You do bring up valid points here.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:16 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Those repulsive type of ignorant comments is why I do not hang out in the political forum. For you to complain about "partisan hackery" is a joke in itself.


You don't "hang out" in the political thread because, like everyone else who lost the will to keep taking argumentative defeats, you swore it off and then tried to make it seem like everyone else was bullying you.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Those repulsive type of ignorant comments is why I do not hang out in the political forum. For you to complain about "partisan hackery" is a joke in itself.


You don't "hang out" in the political thread because, like everyone else who lost the will to keep taking argumentative defeats, you swore it off and then tried to make it seem like everyone else was bullying you.


We don't need this
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject:

LINK
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject:

There have been "blind" reports coming out for years about a bigtime Hollywood studio head doing these types of things and I had a feeling it could him.

Of course that could be because he is well known and I don't know the names of many of the other major players who actually make the deals.

Certainly his behavior is way over the line by any standard, but to compare it to drugging and raping women like Cosby? That is a reach to me.

I am little amused by the "surprise" that an executive in Hollywood could be using his power to get sexual favors from potential actress hires. That has never happened before I am sure.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:47 am    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
There have been "blind" reports coming out for years about a bigtime Hollywood studio head doing these types of things and I had a feeling it could him.

Of course that could be because he is well known and I don't know the names of many of the other major players who actually make the deals.

Certainly his behavior is way over the line by any standard, but to compare it to drugging and sexually assaulting women like Cosby? That is a reach to me.

I am little amused by the "surprise" that an executive in Hollywood could be using his power to get sexual favors from potential actress hires. That has never happened before I am sure.

I agree. AH changed my mind on that issue. Crosby's indescrestion is more akin the the (R) word than assault.
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