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2017 Summer League Champs
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 Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
There is a big difference between accusing someone of lying and wanting evidence before rendering judgment. The same applies to the accused, by the way. Just because a person says "I didn't do do it, he/she is lying" doesn't mean we shouldn't wait for the evidence to render final judgment. |
Again, as has been evidenced both here and elsewhere, the refrain when it comes to many women who accuse powerful men (and not so powerful men) of sexual assault is not "let's wait for the evidence to see what really happened", it is |
Except neither AH, myself, or the numerous others subscribe to that refrain. I think what we, well, or least I, am saying is that no one, on either side, should render judgment without sufficient evidence.
They have literally said "... see some proof or corroboration before they accept an accusation of sexual assault."
That isn't at all the same as "the woman is a liar". |
Yeah, I honestly don't think I have ever heard anyone say "the woman is a liar" or "she is just a bitter vindictive (bleep) who is trying to get back at him," by anyone ever. Even in the rare circumstances where that is likely the case nobody will actually say anything that non-PC. Not sure how people think that is the outcome of most accusations. |
I'm not sure you've read many threads about accusations of abuse, but if you do you're bound to see a ton of those kinds of responses. Any time a woman accuses a famous person/athlete there are several people in each thread convinced she's in it for the money, and in instances where the woman isn't even seeking money, they're in it for the fame or to destroy an innocent man. Even someone beyond any reasonable doubt like Cosby has his supporters in these threads (the women were asking for it, plus why would a famous guy like that need to rape anyone?). |
By internet trolls sure. But I have not noticed it elsewhere. I guess I should have said I haven't heard it unless conveyed anonymously. |
I have heard it plenty in person and they are so pervasive and common I have a hard time believing you haven't. |
Maybe you hang out with more sexists than I do because I never hear people make those kind of statements. Jaws would drop. Friendships would be lost. I don't hear it on TV either. I mean, the proof cited was to read through this thread to see those comments but I haven't seen those comments here either. I would say they are extremely far from "common." From what I've seen you can slut shame all you want but you can't victim shame. Racism is fine now too. The closest thing I've heard is people blaming Trump's porn star and calling her a liar but thats because I live in an area where Trump is revered. She isn't claiming assault anyway so it's not really relevant. Where I live maybe 8 people tops know the word "vindictive" so that pretty much eliminates me from ever hearing someone calling a woman a "vindictive (bleep)." |
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2017 Summer League Champs
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | I'm not sure you've read many threads about accusations of abuse, but if you do you're bound to see a ton of those kinds of responses. Any time a woman accuses a famous person/athlete there are several people in each thread convinced she's in it for the money, and in instances where the woman isn't even seeking money, they're in it for the fame or to destroy an innocent man. Even someone beyond any reasonable doubt like Cosby has his supporters in these threads (the women were asking for it, plus why would a famous guy like that need to rape anyone?). |
Sure. This tends to be overblown, though. If five percent of the people on social media post things like that, it gets a disproportionate amount of attention. That’s a reality of the world we live in. |
I think that number is much higher than 5% and that's on a left leaning board. It has been the dominant opinion in many of the conversations here when the topic comes up. |
Interesting. If it's ”the dominant opinion in many of the conversations here," it should be rather easy for you to find examples of women being called, "a lying, vindictive (bleep)," or something similar. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: |
Maybe you hang out with more sexists than I do because I never hear people make those kind of statements. Jaws would drop. Friendships would be lost. I don't hear it on TV either. I mean, the proof cited was to read through this thread to see those comments but I haven't seen those comments here either. I would say they are extremely far from "common." From what I've seen you can slut shame all you want but you can't victim shame. Racism is fine now too. The closest thing I've heard is people blaming Trump's porn star and calling her a liar but thats because I live in an area where Trump is revered. She isn't claiming assault anyway so it's not really relevant. Where I live maybe 8 people tops know the word "vindictive" so that pretty much eliminates me from ever hearing someone calling a woman a "vindictive (bleep)." |
I don't feel inclined to assemble a dossier of evidence for you on this. You can look at threads here, you can look at this thread, you can look at your own comments in this thread, you can look at articles that have been published, etc. There's a reason all of this stuff blew up over the last year, and it was because for a very long time men were believed over women, and accusers were insulted, name called, and shrugged off as liars.
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2017 Summer League Champs
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: |
Maybe you hang out with more sexists than I do because I never hear people make those kind of statements. Jaws would drop. Friendships would be lost. I don't hear it on TV either. I mean, the proof cited was to read through this thread to see those comments but I haven't seen those comments here either. I would say they are extremely far from "common." From what I've seen you can slut shame all you want but you can't victim shame. Racism is fine now too. The closest thing I've heard is people blaming Trump's porn star and calling her a liar but thats because I live in an area where Trump is revered. She isn't claiming assault anyway so it's not really relevant. Where I live maybe 8 people tops know the word "vindictive" so that pretty much eliminates me from ever hearing someone calling a woman a "vindictive (bleep)." |
I don't feel inclined to assemble a dossier of evidence for you on this. You can look at threads here, you can look at this thread, you can look at your own comments in this thread, you can look at articles that have been published, etc. There's a reason all of this stuff blew up over the last year, and it was because for a very long time men were believed over women, and accusers were insulted, name called, and shrugged off as liars. |
Oh cool, so zero. My faith in humanity has been restored. I can say from my custody and restraining order cases and witnessing hundreds of cases the line of thinking was always, "Don't call her a "liar" or you will lose custody. Be supportive. Praise her while she is calling you a monster. Let the evidence speak for itself." |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: |
Maybe you hang out with more sexists than I do because I never hear people make those kind of statements. Jaws would drop. Friendships would be lost. I don't hear it on TV either. I mean, the proof cited was to read through this thread to see those comments but I haven't seen those comments here either. I would say they are extremely far from "common." From what I've seen you can slut shame all you want but you can't victim shame. Racism is fine now too. The closest thing I've heard is people blaming Trump's porn star and calling her a liar but thats because I live in an area where Trump is revered. She isn't claiming assault anyway so it's not really relevant. Where I live maybe 8 people tops know the word "vindictive" so that pretty much eliminates me from ever hearing someone calling a woman a "vindictive (bleep)." |
I don't feel inclined to assemble a dossier of evidence for you on this. You can look at threads here, you can look at this thread, you can look at your own comments in this thread, you can look at articles that have been published, etc. There's a reason all of this stuff blew up over the last year, and it was because for a very long time men were believed over women, and accusers were insulted, name called, and shrugged off as liars. |
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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The worm turned when Cosby and Weinstein were accused. Their cases opened Pandora's Box..
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: |
Maybe you hang out with more sexists than I do because I never hear people make those kind of statements. Jaws would drop. Friendships would be lost. I don't hear it on TV either. I mean, the proof cited was to read through this thread to see those comments but I haven't seen those comments here either. I would say they are extremely far from "common." From what I've seen you can slut shame all you want but you can't victim shame. Racism is fine now too. The closest thing I've heard is people blaming Trump's porn star and calling her a liar but thats because I live in an area where Trump is revered. She isn't claiming assault anyway so it's not really relevant. Where I live maybe 8 people tops know the word "vindictive" so that pretty much eliminates me from ever hearing someone calling a woman a "vindictive (bleep)." |
I don't feel inclined to assemble a dossier of evidence for you on this. You can look at threads here, you can look at this thread, you can look at your own comments in this thread, you can look at articles that have been published, etc. There's a reason all of this stuff blew up over the last year, and it was because for a very long time men were believed over women, and accusers were insulted, name called, and shrugged off as liars. |
Oh cool, so zero. My faith in humanity has been restored. I can say from my custody and restraining order cases and witnessing hundreds of cases the line of thinking was always, "Don't call her a "liar" or you will lose custody. Be supportive. Praise her while she is calling you a monster. Let the evidence speak for itself." |
Not even close. And you know it.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ocho
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: |
Maybe you hang out with more sexists than I do because I never hear people make those kind of statements. Jaws would drop. Friendships would be lost. I don't hear it on TV either. I mean, the proof cited was to read through this thread to see those comments but I haven't seen those comments here either. I would say they are extremely far from "common." From what I've seen you can slut shame all you want but you can't victim shame. Racism is fine now too. The closest thing I've heard is people blaming Trump's porn star and calling her a liar but thats because I live in an area where Trump is revered. She isn't claiming assault anyway so it's not really relevant. Where I live maybe 8 people tops know the word "vindictive" so that pretty much eliminates me from ever hearing someone calling a woman a "vindictive (bleep)." |
I don't feel inclined to assemble a dossier of evidence for you on this. You can look at threads here, you can look at this thread, you can look at your own comments in this thread, you can look at articles that have been published, etc. There's a reason all of this stuff blew up over the last year, and it was because for a very long time men were believed over women, and accusers were insulted, name called, and shrugged off as liars. |
Oh cool, so zero. My faith in humanity has been restored. I can say from my custody and restraining order cases and witnessing hundreds of cases the line of thinking was always, "Don't call her a "liar" or you will lose custody. Be supportive. Praise her while she is calling you a monster. Let the evidence speak for itself." |
Not even close. And you know it. |
He also said he never heard that Woody Allen likes young girls so maybe when he's done cracking that case he can start investigating this one.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | I'm not sure you've read many threads about accusations of abuse, but if you do you're bound to see a ton of those kinds of responses. Any time a woman accuses a famous person/athlete there are several people in each thread convinced she's in it for the money, and in instances where the woman isn't even seeking money, they're in it for the fame or to destroy an innocent man. Even someone beyond any reasonable doubt like Cosby has his supporters in these threads (the women were asking for it, plus why would a famous guy like that need to rape anyone?). |
Sure. This tends to be overblown, though. If five percent of the people on social media post things like that, it gets a disproportionate amount of attention. That’s a reality of the world we live in. |
I think that number is much higher than 5% and that's on a left leaning board. It has been the dominant opinion in many of the conversations here when the topic comes up. |
Well, that was just a number I tossed out. We all know that 67.43% of all statistics are made up on the spot. The point is that posters who are outliers get a disproportionate amount of attention. I don't think I've seen any threads (at least since the Kobe case years ago) in which the dominant opinion was that women were making up stories of sexual assault. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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I reread SLC's post about where he lives and the people he hangs out with. If his post is true he's sheltered or he's being disingenuous.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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2017 Summer League Champs
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: |
Maybe you hang out with more sexists than I do because I never hear people make those kind of statements. Jaws would drop. Friendships would be lost. I don't hear it on TV either. I mean, the proof cited was to read through this thread to see those comments but I haven't seen those comments here either. I would say they are extremely far from "common." From what I've seen you can slut shame all you want but you can't victim shame. Racism is fine now too. The closest thing I've heard is people blaming Trump's porn star and calling her a liar but thats because I live in an area where Trump is revered. She isn't claiming assault anyway so it's not really relevant. Where I live maybe 8 people tops know the word "vindictive" so that pretty much eliminates me from ever hearing someone calling a woman a "vindictive (bleep)." |
I don't feel inclined to assemble a dossier of evidence for you on this. You can look at threads here, you can look at this thread, you can look at your own comments in this thread, you can look at articles that have been published, etc. There's a reason all of this stuff blew up over the last year, and it was because for a very long time men were believed over women, and accusers were insulted, name called, and shrugged off as liars. |
Oh cool, so zero. My faith in humanity has been restored. I can say from my custody and restraining order cases and witnessing hundreds of cases the line of thinking was always, "Don't call her a "liar" or you will lose custody. Be supportive. Praise her while she is calling you a monster. Let the evidence speak for itself." |
Not even close. And you know it. |
You guys just troll. He did provide zero examples. |
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2017 Summer League Champs
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: |
Maybe you hang out with more sexists than I do because I never hear people make those kind of statements. Jaws would drop. Friendships would be lost. I don't hear it on TV either. I mean, the proof cited was to read through this thread to see those comments but I haven't seen those comments here either. I would say they are extremely far from "common." From what I've seen you can slut shame all you want but you can't victim shame. Racism is fine now too. The closest thing I've heard is people blaming Trump's porn star and calling her a liar but thats because I live in an area where Trump is revered. She isn't claiming assault anyway so it's not really relevant. Where I live maybe 8 people tops know the word "vindictive" so that pretty much eliminates me from ever hearing someone calling a woman a "vindictive (bleep)." |
I don't feel inclined to assemble a dossier of evidence for you on this. You can look at threads here, you can look at this thread, you can look at your own comments in this thread, you can look at articles that have been published, etc. There's a reason all of this stuff blew up over the last year, and it was because for a very long time men were believed over women, and accusers were insulted, name called, and shrugged off as liars. |
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Provide me a single time I jumped to a conclusion and called a women a "vindictive (bleep) and liar" before evidence was provided. My entire point has been we shouldn't jump to conclusions without evidence and your entire point is that we should jump to conclusions or you are a victim shamer. Oh, I guess maybe you think I jumped to a conclusion about Woody Allen without evidence in a well documented case from over a quarter century ago.
Last edited by 2017 Summer League Champs on Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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2017 Summer League Champs
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | I reread SLC's post about where he lives and the people he hangs out with. If his post is true he's sheltered or he's being disingenuous. |
You people are nuts. Find examples of articles, people here, or something on tv. You people keep saying you (conveniently) hear it in person all the time and sound like Trump claiming guys use that sort of locker room talk. I never hear comments like that. Hang around better people rather than scum maybe. I've worked in a damn prison before but apparently you people hear far worse stuff. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | I reread SLC's post about where he lives and the people he hangs out with. If his post is true he's sheltered or he's being disingenuous. |
You people are nuts. Find examples of articles, people here, or something on tv. You people keep saying you (conveniently) hear it in person all the time and sound like Trump claiming guys use that sort of locker room talk. I never hear comments like that. Hang around better people rather than scum maybe. I've worked in a damn prison before but apparently you people hear far worse stuff. |
People are nuts because they hear things you don't? People's friends are scum because they say things yours don't? Am I nuts for offering a observation? IMO that's a wide blanket. The world is bigger and more diverse than your corner of it.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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2017 Summer League Champs
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | I reread SLC's post about where he lives and the people he hangs out with. If his post is true he's sheltered or he's being disingenuous. |
You people are nuts. Find examples of articles, people here, or something on tv. You people keep saying you (conveniently) hear it in person all the time and sound like Trump claiming guys use that sort of locker room talk. I never hear comments like that. Hang around better people rather than scum maybe. I've worked in a damn prison before but apparently you people hear far worse stuff. |
People are nuts because they hear things you don't? People's friends are scum because they say things yours don't? Am I nuts for offering a observation? IMO that's a wide blanket. The world is bigger and more diverse than your corner of it. |
The hypocrisy. You literally told me I hear what I don't hear and then accuse me of making a blanket statement. You criticize my observation first then say my observation about your observation isnt allowed to be offered. And still, nobody has provided a shred of evidence. Its like I'm being punked and not in on the joke yet. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | I reread SLC's post about where he lives and the people he hangs out with. If his post is true he's sheltered or he's being disingenuous. |
You people are nuts. Find examples of articles, people here, or something on tv. You people keep saying you (conveniently) hear it in person all the time and sound like Trump claiming guys use that sort of locker room talk. I never hear comments like that. Hang around better people rather than scum maybe. I've worked in a damn prison before but apparently you people hear far worse stuff. |
People are nuts because they hear things you don't? People's friends are scum because they say things yours don't? Am I nuts for offering a observation? IMO that's a wide blanket. The world is bigger and more diverse than your corner of it. |
The hypocrisy. You literally told me I hear what I don't hear and then accuse me of making a blanket statement. You criticize my observation first then say my observation about your observation isnt allowed to be offered. And still, nobody has provided a shred of evidence. Its like I'm being punked and not in on the joke yet. |
Challenge. Please show me where I told or accused you of anything. I offered an opinion on a wide blanket not an accusation. Show me where I criticized you or said your observations aren't allowed. Note the punctuation (?)
EDIT: 11:07 9/5/18 LINK
Come out, Come out, wherever you are. 
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Bill Cosby's sentencing is set for September 25, 2018 at 9:30 a.m. Because of his age, 81, not his notoriety I think he will get a suspended sentence or a slap on the wrist jail time and maybe a fine.
Opinions on his adjudication?
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | Bill Cosby's sentencing is set for September 25, 2018 at 9:30 a.m. Because of his age, 81, not his notoriety I think he will get a suspended sentence or a slap on the wrist jail time and maybe a fine.
Opinions on his adjudication? |
Normally I'd agree - wealthy celebrity status all too frequently has lead to pretty favorable sentencing. But Cosby has been convicted of a very serious crime and his behavior during the trial didn't exactly open the door for any leniency. At this point in time with the growing current of support for victims of sexual assault and more importantly the outrage towards the perpetrators, I would be highly surprised if one of the high profile cases of the #MeToo movement resulted in any leniency or benefit of the doubt for Cosby. I would tend to think there would be an effort to make an example of him. I hope that is the case, but you never know when a popular celebrity is involved as we have seen too many times.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | Bill Cosby's sentencing is set for September 25, 2018 at 9:30 a.m. Because of his age, 81, not his notoriety I think he will get a suspended sentence or a slap on the wrist jail time and maybe a fine.
Opinions on his adjudication? |
20-25 years. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | Bill Cosby's sentencing is set for September 25, 2018 at 9:30 a.m. Because of his age, 81, not his notoriety I think he will get a suspended sentence or a slap on the wrist jail time and maybe a fine.
Opinions on his adjudication? |
20-25 years. |
Really AH? You're not just saying that?
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | Bill Cosby's sentencing is set for September 25, 2018 at 9:30 a.m. Because of his age, 81, not his notoriety I think he will get a suspended sentence or a slap on the wrist jail time and maybe a fine.
Opinions on his adjudication? |
20-25 years. |
Yup. Basically the rest of his life behind bars.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | Bill Cosby's sentencing is set for September 25, 2018 at 9:30 a.m. Because of his age, 81, not his notoriety I think he will get a suspended sentence or a slap on the wrist jail time and maybe a fine.
Opinions on his adjudication? |
20-25 years. |
Yup. Basically the rest of his life behind bars. |
As it should be after a lifetime spent drugging women in order to assault them.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38789
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | Bill Cosby's sentencing is set for September 25, 2018 at 9:30 a.m. Because of his age, 81, not his notoriety I think he will get a suspended sentence or a slap on the wrist jail time and maybe a fine.
Opinions on his adjudication? |
He got convicted of a felony....he's doing hard time. |
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jodeke
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Being a man of advance years I'm conflicted. I want to see Cosby do time as I do Weinstein and all convicted perps.
In Cosby's case I have sympathy because of his age. I know if his health is good he can do some years, a limited number, and still have a productive existence.
What he did was deplorable and inexcusable but sorry, I'm a bleeding heart.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | Being a man of advance years I'm conflicted. I want to see Cosby do time as I do Weinstein and all convicted perps.
In Cosby's case I have sympathy because of his age. I know if his health is good he can do some years, a limited number, and still have a productive existence.
What he did was deplorable and inexcusable but sorry, I'm a bleeding heart. |
Nah yo. He committed those crimes in his prime, he must still do his time.
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