Sexual Harassment Accusations Against Harvey Weinstein, and others
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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject:

hoopschick29 wrote:
Ted wrote:
#metoo has jumped the shark

They're even going after men who are trying to support them. It's gotten way out of hand. Male celebrities should just keep their mouths shut and not utter one word of support for the movement. If they do, people will dig through their past and find something to hammer them on.


This has gotten way out of control.

I have a problem with the idea that someone can come forward decades later and accuse someone of this and it ruin their life. The person accused has no real way of defending themselves. I have a problem with that. And if you've even looked at a woman cross-eyed in the last 50 years, you are vulnerable. I have a problem with that. Men are losing everything behind ACCUSATIONS. I have a problem with that. This #metoo nonsense has COMPLETELY gone off the rails.


It's been joked that we have reached a point where males are scared to hear their name mentioned in public. And for the very reason you mention it's not really a joke.

That said, there are certain men whose names have been mentioned where you think "well, that's not surprising at all":

Vegas casino king Steve Wynn accused of ‘pattern of sexual misconduct’
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:39 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
Ted wrote:
#metoo has jumped the shark

They're even going after men who are trying to support them. It's gotten way out of hand. Male celebrities should just keep their mouths shut and not utter one word of support for the movement. If they do, people will dig through their past and find something to hammer them on.


This has gotten way out of control.

I have a problem with the idea that someone can come forward decades later and accuse someone of this and it ruin their life. The person accused has no real way of defending themselves. I have a problem with that. And if you've even looked at a woman cross-eyed in the last 50 years, you are vulnerable. I have a problem with that. Men are losing everything behind ACCUSATIONS. I have a problem with that. This #metoo nonsense has COMPLETELY gone off the rails.


It's been joked that we have reached a point where males are scared to hear their name mentioned in public. And for the very reason you mention it's not really a joke.

That said, there are certain men whose names have been mentioned where you think "well, that's not surprising at all":

Vegas casino king Steve Wynn accused of ‘pattern of sexual misconduct’


As someone in the industry, how big of a deal did you think Harvey Weinstein was before all of this? Was he more powerful than Stephen Spielberg and James Cameron, as some have said earlier in this thread? I had never heard of him before.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:11 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
^^^^

That's all true, but it's still hard for me to comprehend. The money and the parents have been part of the picture for a long time. I would have assumed that women's gymnastics, in particular, had pervasive safeguards against something like this. Obviously, this was not the case.

I am guessing that all of these committee members who are resigning are people from the gymnastics community. People within a community like that are often blinded by "the way we have always done things" and by personal relationships. We may need to mandate that organizations like that have at least one ombudsman from outside of the community who is responsible for making sure that issues of sexual abuse, physical abuse, and safety are being handled objectively.
they did a nice interview with some olympians on NPR. They are talking about unionizing to do have that outside party keep an eye out for these kids, among other things.

BUt i just saw this trying to look up that interview i heard on friday.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetorch/2018/01/26/580956170/usoc-tells-usa-gymnastics-board-to-resign-within-6-days

^^thats as of the 26. the entire board is gone.
Quote:
The board of USA Gymnastics says its remaining members will resign in response to a request by the U.S. Olympic Committee.

The U.S. Olympic Committee had earlier set a deadline of Jan. 31 for their resignation, or USA Gymnastics would face the loss of its certification as a national governing body. The deadline was one week from the day disgraced team doctor Larry Nassar was sentenced to up to 175 years in prison for abusing more than 150 gymnasts.

but I actually agree with this. You have to let it be known that this can't happen without severe consequences.

We're over here talking about the russians and cheating while we're allowing people to rape/molest child olympians. horrible.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:27 am    Post subject:

^^^^

I am still having trouble accepting that we had institutional failure of this magnitude. The risk was just so obvious. If these institutions -- from little league baseball to college swimming programs -- are not going to regulate themselves effectively, then we will need to intervene from the outside. This cannot be happening.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
Ted wrote:
#metoo has jumped the shark

They're even going after men who are trying to support them. It's gotten way out of hand. Male celebrities should just keep their mouths shut and not utter one word of support for the movement. If they do, people will dig through their past and find something to hammer them on.


This has gotten way out of control.

I have a problem with the idea that someone can come forward decades later and accuse someone of this and it ruin their life. The person accused has no real way of defending themselves. I have a problem with that. And if you've even looked at a woman cross-eyed in the last 50 years, you are vulnerable. I have a problem with that. Men are losing everything behind ACCUSATIONS. I have a problem with that. This #metoo nonsense has COMPLETELY gone off the rails.


It's been joked that we have reached a point where males are scared to hear their name mentioned in public. And for the very reason you mention it's not really a joke.

That said, there are certain men whose names have been mentioned where you think "well, that's not surprising at all":

Vegas casino king Steve Wynn accused of ‘pattern of sexual misconduct’


As someone in the industry, how big of a deal did you think Harvey Weinstein was before all of this? Was he more powerful than Stephen Spielberg and James Cameron, as some have said earlier in this thread? I had never heard of him before.



He probably was up there considering how many hit movies he was behind.

That being said as far as how it got to this point $$$$ was involved lots of it.

How can anyone be surprised at Michigan State after Penn State?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
^^^^

I am still having trouble accepting that we had institutional failure of this magnitude. The risk was just so obvious. If these institutions -- from little league baseball to college swimming programs -- are not going to regulate themselves effectively, then we will need to intervene from the outside. This cannot be happening.


It is tough. The youth football league that I coach in requires a live scan so if someone is convicted they aren’t allowed to coach. But it does nothing for those who are guilty but haven’t been caught. I have parents who have asked me to give their son a ride home from practice but he’ll no, I am not going to be alone with a kid in my car.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
Ted wrote:
#metoo has jumped the shark

They're even going after men who are trying to support them. It's gotten way out of hand. Male celebrities should just keep their mouths shut and not utter one word of support for the movement. If they do, people will dig through their past and find something to hammer them on.


This has gotten way out of control.

I have a problem with the idea that someone can come forward decades later and accuse someone of this and it ruin their life. The person accused has no real way of defending themselves. I have a problem with that. And if you've even looked at a woman cross-eyed in the last 50 years, you are vulnerable. I have a problem with that. Men are losing everything behind ACCUSATIONS. I have a problem with that. This #metoo nonsense has COMPLETELY gone off the rails.


It's been joked that we have reached a point where males are scared to hear their name mentioned in public. And for the very reason you mention it's not really a joke.

That said, there are certain men whose names have been mentioned where you think "well, that's not surprising at all":

Vegas casino king Steve Wynn accused of ‘pattern of sexual misconduct’


As someone in the industry, how big of a deal did you think Harvey Weinstein was before all of this? Was he more powerful than Stephen Spielberg and James Cameron, as some have said earlier in this thread? I had never heard of him before.


I wouldn’t say he was more powerful than those two guys, but he was more broadly powerful in that he affected a lot more films, filmmakers, and actors. Miramax and later the Weinstein group really had a stranglehold on a certain sector of movies and affected who would be in or out both by their choices and by the fact that they could strong arm others who would want to work with them later. Thus a blackball from Harvey was a real thing.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:36 pm    Post subject:

One of the difficulties of the meetoo movement is squaring the long institutional grasp of the problem and its ability to hide and protect itself with the guilt by accusation pendulum swing in the other direction. How do you legitimately and fairly give the proper benefit of the doubt to both accuser and accused?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:15 pm    Post subject:

Entitlement, abuse of power is culprit in Hollywood It's somewhat similar in the cooperate world.

Women coming forward with less fear of reprisal, offenders fearing disclosure makes the so call pendulum swing more in favor of victims.

I don't know way to assure abuse, harassment claims validity. Innocents will be harmed. It's a product of change.

More good than bad is coming from the accusations but there will be collateral damage.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:41 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
One of the difficulties of the meetoo movement is squaring the long institutional grasp of the problem and its ability to hide and protect itself with the guilt by accusation pendulum swing in the other direction. How do you legitimately and fairly give the proper benefit of the doubt to both accuser and accused?


Easier said than done, but a key to that is vigilance from those that seek the change (could be considered the 'accusing' group) in condemning those who unjustly accuse. It's a slippery slope because it can lead to more silence. But by the same token the damage to the underlying message the change is rooted in is greater IMO. Can't fall into the trap of mob mentality. That just creates victims on both sides (real or perceived).
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:04 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
Ted wrote:
#metoo has jumped the shark

They're even going after men who are trying to support them. It's gotten way out of hand. Male celebrities should just keep their mouths shut and not utter one word of support for the movement. If they do, people will dig through their past and find something to hammer them on.


This has gotten way out of control.

I have a problem with the idea that someone can come forward decades later and accuse someone of this and it ruin their life. The person accused has no real way of defending themselves. I have a problem with that. And if you've even looked at a woman cross-eyed in the last 50 years, you are vulnerable. I have a problem with that. Men are losing everything behind ACCUSATIONS. I have a problem with that. This #metoo nonsense has COMPLETELY gone off the rails.


It's been joked that we have reached a point where males are scared to hear their name mentioned in public. And for the very reason you mention it's not really a joke.

That said, there are certain men whose names have been mentioned where you think "well, that's not surprising at all":

Vegas casino king Steve Wynn accused of ‘pattern of sexual misconduct’


As someone in the industry, how big of a deal did you think Harvey Weinstein was before all of this? Was he more powerful than Stephen Spielberg and James Cameron, as some have said earlier in this thread? I had never heard of him before.


Harvey was a different kind of powerful. He wasn't a name that registered with the general public, but he was the decision maker on a ton of projects that as far as sheer numbers rival what Spielberg does, even though he doesn't have the public name recognition. Which is why he was able to exploit it so horribly and for so long.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:04 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Harvey was a different kind of powerful. He wasn't a name that registered with the general public, but he was the decision maker on a ton of projects that as far as sheer numbers rival what Spielberg does, even though he doesn't have the public name recognition. Which is why he was able to exploit it so horribly and for so long.


It's sort of like asking who is more powerful, Amazon or Goldman Sachs? They really aren't measured in the same units, and they don't compete with each other except in an abstract sense. Unless they work together on something, they really don't intersect.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:52 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Harvey was a different kind of powerful. He wasn't a name that registered with the general public, but he was the decision maker on a ton of projects that as far as sheer numbers rival what Spielberg does, even though he doesn't have the public name recognition. Which is why he was able to exploit it so horribly and for so long.


It's sort of like asking who is more powerful, Amazon or Goldman Sachs? They really aren't measured in the same units, and they don't compete with each other except in an abstract sense. Unless they work together on something, they really don't intersect.


That's an accurate analogy on one level.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:15 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
One of the difficulties of the meetoo movement is squaring the long institutional grasp of the problem and its ability to hide and protect itself with the guilt by accusation pendulum swing in the other direction. How do you legitimately and fairly give the proper benefit of the doubt to both accuser and accused?

It annoys me that supposed thought leaders in the media (e.g. The Atlantic or The New Yorker) aren't asking and examining this very question, as it strikes me as the crux of all the recent #metoo discussion.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject:

The Red Cross Helped an Executive Get a Job at Save the Children After Forcing Him Out For Sexual Harassment
A senior Red Cross official harassed a subordinate and was accused of raping another. The charity’s now-general counsel David Meltzer praised him on his way out for “leadership” and “dedication.”
by Justin Elliott and Ariana Tobin | Jan. 25
Quote:
The Red Cross’ handling of the Anderson case, coming to light as the nation wrestles more broadly with its treatment of sexual misconduct allegations, sheds light on the unsettling way many employers have dealt with such allegations against high-ranking male executives. Even when employers take action, their investigations are often cursory, and accusers can be left feeling abandoned when the executives are quietly dismissed and land plum new jobs. While many employers make a practice of giving neutral recommendations, or simply dates of service, the Red Cross gave Anderson a good review, with no hint of concern.

At the Red Cross, two young women came forward in September 2012 to accuse Anderson. One, who worked under Anderson, cited disturbing emails he sent to her work account insisting they should have a romantic relationship. A Red Cross attorney subsequently acknowledged to her that investigators had found her account to have merit.

The second woman, Eliza Paul, a program assistant who met him at an after-work happy hour, lodged even more serious allegations against Anderson. She told Red Cross officials she had woken up naked in his bed without knowing how she had gotten there and had gone to the hospital for a rape kit exam.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:25 am    Post subject:

does this one go here or on the Political thread?

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/hillary-clinton-called-daily-show-074655155.html

Hillary Clinton called out by 'Daily Show' for handling of sexual harassment claims

The Daily Show host Trevor Noah called out Hillary Clinton for her response to a New York Times report that she kept an advisor, named Burns Strider, on her 2008 campaign staff after he was accused of harassing a young female staffer. According to the CNN, the staffer accused Strider of touching her shoulders, kissing her forehead, and sending her suggestive emails. At the time, clients campaign managers suggested Clinton fire Strider. However, Clinton only docked Strider several weeks of pay and order him to attend counsel. He declined to undergo counselling. The young staffer, who was the victim in the claim, was then reassigned to another job. Of the report Trevor Noah said, "A few areas I don't expect Hillary Clinton to nail it - managing e-mails, visiting Wisconsin, weaknesses. But I expected standing up for a woman on her staff to be one of her strengths." Clinton responded to the report, tweeting, "A story appeared today about something that happened in 2008. I was dismayed when it occurred, but was heartened the young woman came forward, was heard, and had her concerns taken seriously and addressed." Clinton followed up with a second tweet, reading, "I called her today to tell her how proud I am of her and to make sure she knows what all women should: we deserve to be heard." Noah felt that Clinton's response, which never makes a clear apology, was was not in tune with today's politics. Noah said, "I thought in 2018 with everything we're learning about now, maybe Hillary would come out and say, 'Hey guys, I realize I was part of the problem in the way I handled this. When I look back, I should have done better." Noah then went as far as to imply her lack of stern punishment for Strider enabled him to continue his cycle of harassment. Noah blasted Clinton saying, "This guy, Strider, he went on to get another job in Democratic politics where he got fired for doing the same thing to other women. So you could argue that if Hillary had fired him, she would have been protecting many women instead of just herself."
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject:

ChickenBeckerman wrote:
does this one go here or on the Political thread?

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/hillary-clinton-called-daily-show-074655155.html

Hillary Clinton called out by 'Daily Show' for handling of sexual harassment claims


I'm guessing this thread. Definitely a bad move back then. Clinton's statement was just bizarre. She doesn't apologize. I watched Solis Doyle on CNN. Seemed loyal and credible and just as disappointed. Maybe more, since she is close to her.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:06 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
"This guy, Strider, he went on to get another job in Democratic politics where he got fired for doing the same thing to other women. So you could argue that if Hillary had fired him, she would have been protecting many women instead of just herself."


This is evidence of the shark jump. This guy is now the equivalent of Harvey Weinstein and Larry Nassar. If someone is accused of sexual harassment, we must fire them and make them wear a scarlet H for the rest of their lives.

I'm not going to defend this guy. But the idea that we need to execute every accused harasser, and that someone who fails to give the execution order must be shamed, just shows that this movement went off the rails a long time ago.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:08 pm    Post subject:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/02/lawsuit-filed-against-texans-alleging-team-failed-to-properly-investigate-sexual-harassment-complaints/

Quote:
Lawsuit filed against Texans alleging team failed to properly investigate sexual harassment complaints



The Houston Texans released a statement Friday evening in response to a lawsuit filed against the franchise over failure to properly investigate sexual harassment complaints.

According to KHOU.com, Kristen Grimes is suing for negligence, civil assault, intentional infliction of emotional distress and defamation. The lawsuit is directed at the alleged actions of Jason Lowrey, the team’s former Director of Football Operations.


“We are aware that a lawsuit was filed earlier today against the Houston Texans alleging, among other things, that the Club failed to properly investigate and respond to a sexual harassment complaint filed by a former employee in November 2016,” the statement read. “The Houston Texans take complaints of this nature seriously. Consistent with club policy, this matter was promptly investigated and addressed at the time the complaint was made. We will vigorously defend ourselves against this litigation.”

The lawsuit against the team alleges the Texans and Lowrey “fostere(ed) an Alpha-Male environment, where continuous improprieties toward female employees were not punished. In fact, they were rewarded.”

Lowrey was dismissed by the team in January.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject:

^^^^

I read that lawsuit when it popped up in the local media. Unless there is something I am missing, she is going to get poured out on legal grounds. Apparently, she did not file a charge of discrimination with the EEOC or the parallel state agency. She is trying to proceed under state common law. The Texas courts have held that cannot do that in an ordinary harassment lawsuit. Instead, the Texas statute preempts common law remedies, such as negligence and the like. You must file a charge with the agency within 180 days.

Public service announcement: If you or someone you know has an harassment issue, they need to talk to a lawyer sooner instead of later. I have had many people who have come to me a year later, and there is often nothing I can do for them. The deadlines vary from state to state. In this case, she reported the issue to the Texans in Novenber 2016, and then apparently quit when they did not handle the matter to her satisfaction. She did not sue until January 2018.

Note that this does not apply outside of the employment context, and it may not apply in cases of actual sexual assault.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:11 pm    Post subject:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jill-messicks-family-issues-blistering-statement-harvey-weinstein-rose-mcgowan-1083173

Quote:
Veteran studio executive and producer Jill Messick died by suicide on Wednesday after battling depression for many years, her family tells The Hollywood Reporter.
Messick, who worked at Miramax as a production executive from 1997 to 2003, also served as Rose McGowan's manager in January 1997, which is when, McGowan has claimed, she was raped by Harvey Weinstein.
In a statement following her death, her family says Messick was "victimized" after becoming embroiled in the Weinstein-McGowan allegations. Her name made headlines when Weinstein's attorney, Ben Brafman, released an email on Jan. 30 attributed to Messick in defense of his client. Her family says now that Messick "became collateral damage in an already horrific story."

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:56 pm    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jill-messicks-family-issues-blistering-statement-harvey-weinstein-rose-mcgowan-1083173

Quote:
Veteran studio executive and producer Jill Messick died by suicide on Wednesday after battling depression for many years, her family tells The Hollywood Reporter.
Messick, who worked at Miramax as a production executive from 1997 to 2003, also served as Rose McGowan's manager in January 1997, which is when, McGowan has claimed, she was raped by Harvey Weinstein.
In a statement following her death, her family says Messick was "victimized" after becoming embroiled in the Weinstein-McGowan allegations. Her name made headlines when Weinstein's attorney, Ben Brafman, released an email on Jan. 30 attributed to Messick in defense of his client. Her family says now that Messick "became collateral damage in an already horrific story."


That's a very disturbing read after watching Rose McGowan's unhinged interview on the Daily Show last week.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:36 pm    Post subject:

The gravity of how these allegations are affecting the lives of so many is disturbing. I had no idea how widespread abuse is. If anything good can come from this it'll be, abuse will likely abate. It won't stop, it will slow.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:21 pm    Post subject:

http://deadline.com/2018/02/attorney-general-lashes-out-against-harvey-weinstein-in-civil-rights-lawsuit-1202285703/

Quote:

Attorney General Schneiderman. “Any sale of The Weinstein Company must ensure that victims will be compensated, employees will be protected going forward, and that neither perpetrators nor enablers will be unjustly enriched. Every New Yorker has a right to a workplace free of sexual harassment, intimidation, and fear.”

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