Sexual Harassment Accusations (9/25: Cosby sentenced 3-10 years in state prison)
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JerryMagicKobe
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
No, though I certainly did intend to attack the author. None of that is her research. She's just someone who decided to assemble academic references to support her preconceived agenda. The actual academic research she cites is discussed in my post in this thread on September 2.

For better or for worse, this is the state of internet journalism in 2018. The author is some nobody with zero qualifications. She has an apparent agenda: she wants to discredit the idea that false sexual assault allegations are a real issue. So she links a bunch of stuff that doesn't actually say that, and she editorializes. This is life in the blogosphere.

If you read that article with a critical eye, and set aside your preconceptions, you will see that I'm right. Read the last quote in CL's post. Explain to us how this is supported by research in those embedded links. This article is an editorial masquerading as fact. Again, welcome to 2018.
I understand the temptation to discredit the author, but we can take her out of the equation by posting other reference material. LINK
There are a lot - feel free to post a link to your favorite(s).
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:55 pm    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
No, though I certainly did intend to attack the author. None of that is her research. She's just someone who decided to assemble academic references to support her preconceived agenda. The actual academic research she cites is discussed in my post in this thread on September 2.

For better or for worse, this is the state of internet journalism in 2018. The author is some nobody with zero qualifications. She has an apparent agenda: she wants to discredit the idea that false sexual assault allegations are a real issue. So she links a bunch of stuff that doesn't actually say that, and she editorializes. This is life in the blogosphere.

If you read that article with a critical eye, and set aside your preconceptions, you will see that I'm right. Read the last quote in CL's post. Explain to us how this is supported by research in those embedded links. This article is an editorial masquerading as fact. Again, welcome to 2018.
I understand the temptation to discredit the author, but we can take her out of the equation by posting other reference material. LINK
There are a lot - feel free to post a link to your favorite(s).


I addressed that data at some length in my September 2 post.
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JerryMagicKobe
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:52 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
No, though I certainly did intend to attack the author. None of that is her research. She's just someone who decided to assemble academic references to support her preconceived agenda. The actual academic research she cites is discussed in my post in this thread on September 2.

For better or for worse, this is the state of internet journalism in 2018. The author is some nobody with zero qualifications. She has an apparent agenda: she wants to discredit the idea that false sexual assault allegations are a real issue. So she links a bunch of stuff that doesn't actually say that, and she editorializes. This is life in the blogosphere.

If you read that article with a critical eye, and set aside your preconceptions, you will see that I'm right. Read the last quote in CL's post. Explain to us how this is supported by research in those embedded links. This article is an editorial masquerading as fact. Again, welcome to 2018.
I understand the temptation to discredit the author, but we can take her out of the equation by posting other reference material. LINK
There are a lot - feel free to post a link to your favorite(s).


I addressed that data at some length in my September 2 post.

Right, but you know as well as anyone that an argument can be made to discredit anything.
Is there no study, no expert, no stats or figures, nothing at all that you would point to as a reasonable estimate?
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:37 am    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Right, but you know as well as anyone that an argument can be made to discredit anything.
Is there no study, no expert, no stats or figures, nothing at all that you would point to as a reasonable estimate?


Not that I know of. This issue is politicized, so people are going to seize whatever data they can find and try to use it. Up to a certain point, that's not unfair. In this case, people (such as the author in "Quartz") are deliberately misusing the data to make a political point. Again, read the last quote in CL's post. This is what the author wants you to conclude -- that we should just automatically assume that every claim of sexual assault is true unless there is some obvious reason to disbelieve it.

What the studies show is that the police conclude that that about 8% of criminal sexual assault allegations are false. The activists want you to conclude that the other 92% are true and that, by implication, this percentage applies to non-criminal accusations. In fact, the interest group that published the paper you linked tries to argue that 8% is too high because the police make mistakes.

So Kobe should be finishing up his prison sentence about now. Kobe was accused. The police did not determine that the accusation was false. Therefore, we must believe the accusation. Kobe is a rapist.

So what's the real percentage? I have no idea. These accusations get made every day in divorce and child custody proceedings. They never even get to the police. The accusation against George Takei never got to the police. So I can't give you a number, but I'm not going to buy a 92% truth rate just because some activist says so.

I'll fall back on basic American values. The accused is presumed innocent. This does not mean that I need a criminal conviction to change my mind. My opinion is not a court of law. I need to see enough substantiation to make me think that it is true. If Rose McGowan was the only accuser, I wouldn't have presumed Weinstein guilty. But there was a parade of accusers. At some point, the presumption was overcome.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject:

UCF LB faces charge of sexual battery to physically helpless person

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UCF linebacker Demetreius Mayes Jr. was arrested Tuesday on a charge of sexual battery to a physically helpless person, according to arrest records.

Mayes, a freshman from Miami, was immediately suspended from all football-related activities, according to UCF coach Josh Heupel.


Quote:
On Monday, detectives interviewed a woman who told them she had been intoxicated after drinking throughout the evening. She told police she remembered arriving at the housing complex and going upstairs but did not recall what happened until she woke up naked as Mayes sexually penetrated her.


Quote:
Several other UCF football players present at the housing complex during the time of the alleged incident were interviewed by police. According to their statements, the players were "concerned Mayes was going to have sex with the intoxicated victim" and attempted to enter his room to prevent the act -- described to police as a "big mistake" -- from happening.

They told police they knocked on Mayes' locked door for several minutes and repeatedly told him not to have sex with the woman. When she emerged from the room, she was "visibly upset and was crying."


LINK

I am not sure if this was the best place to post. I posted it because in recent years, there has been this narrative that universities, especially as it pertains to athletes and fraternities, are full of young males ready to rape their next victim. Sexual Assault does happen on college campuses, and probably at a higher rate than general society given many factors, but it is an extremely low number of college males that engage or even tolerate these crimes. I spent nearly all of my undergraduate years in 4 locations; on a field, in a locker room, in a fraternity house, or in a class....and I know the many friends and teammates that I spent time with were like the players described in the last quoted section. We did not assault females, nor would we tolerate, approve or cover up for a fellow teammate that engaged in similar activities. These crimes happen, but we have to stop painting with a broad brush.

In hindsight, it would have been better if the team mates physically prevented the alleged criminal from entering the room....or maybe even kicked down the door.....but I was not there, and can't judge the exact situation. What if they physically assaulted their team mate before he committed a crime, or destroyed campus property and no crime was taking place? They would have been setting in the police car and losing their scholarship. Once they learned of the allegation, they stepped up and assisted the victim and police investigation.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:32 pm    Post subject:

First of all, great avatar.

I agree with what you’re saying about jocks. I know a guy who is still haunted by an incident from long ago. He actually did step up and stop the assault, but what haunts him is how the drunken mob psychology made everything seem normal.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:17 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
First of all, great avatar.

I agree with what you’re saying about jocks. I know a guy who is still haunted by an incident from long ago. He actually did step up and stop the assault, but what haunts him is how the drunken mob psychology made everything seem normal.


One thing that I think we have missed out on is the opportunity to reinforce to our daughters and young females that at the end of the day, they must be responsible for their own safety. All I mean by that is if this kid at UCF did assault this female...he will be prosecuted and go to prison, but the young lady was still assaulted. Nobody can ever take that away for her. I do not view it as victim blaming...but using her situation or those like hers to make sure our young females know that there are very bad dudes out there, and they have to take measures to not allow themselves to get in these dangerous situations. My daughter is close to the age of really pounding these lessons into her head, but before she leaves for college, I will do everything in my power to make sure she knows she has to take steps to avoid these situations.

Unless you have one or two friends that you absolutely trust with you....the kind of people that would never allow you to leave heavily intoxicated with a male.....then you simply cannot become intoxicated. I will make sure she understands not only can we not 100% trust ourselves when we are intoxicated, we cannot 100% trust others when they are intoxicated. I know it's tough at that age, but one mistake can change your life forever. I would have a very different but also similar in some ways lesson for a son if I had one. You only have full control of your own actions.....and you simply cannot trust others to act in a responsible or legal manner in regards to your safety.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:57 pm    Post subject:

Yes, you can be a victim but still have personal responsibility. The two are not mutually exclusive. The recklessness of the victim does not excuse the crimes of the villain, but punishing those crimes does not erase the trauma.

One more thing that I hope every parent has drummed into their kid's heads: Once you send something off into the internet, you can never get it back, and it will never go away. This especially applies to private sexual matters, but it also applies to off color jokes of a sexual or racial nature. As we have seen, this stuff can pop up many years later.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:37 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
First of all, great avatar.

I agree with what you’re saying about jocks. I know a guy who is still haunted by an incident from long ago. He actually did step up and stop the assault, but what haunts him is how the drunken mob psychology made everything seem normal.


One thing that I think we have missed out on is the opportunity to reinforce to our daughters and young females that at the end of the day, they must be responsible for their own safety. All I mean by that is if this kid at UCF did assault this female...he will be prosecuted and go to prison, but the young lady was still assaulted. Nobody can ever take that away for her. I do not view it as victim blaming...but using her situation or those like hers to make sure our young females know that there are very bad dudes out there, and they have to take measures to not allow themselves to get in these dangerous situations. My daughter is close to the age of really pounding these lessons into her head, but before she leaves for college, I will do everything in my power to make sure she knows she has to take steps to avoid these situations.

Unless you have one or two friends that you absolutely trust with you....the kind of people that would never allow you to leave heavily intoxicated with a male.....then you simply cannot become intoxicated. I will make sure she understands not only can we not 100% trust ourselves when we are intoxicated, we cannot 100% trust others when they are intoxicated. I know it's tough at that age, but one mistake can change your life forever. I would have a very different but also similar in some ways lesson for a son if I had one. You only have full control of your own actions.....and you simply cannot trust others to act in a responsible or legal manner in regards to your safety.


SAS took that position and IMO he was misunderstood and was raked over the coals.

Analyze
Quote:
“There’s never an excuse to put your hands on a woman,” the often polarizing analyst said at one point in his nearly 2 1/2-minute monologue (watch it below). But later he added: “We also have to make sure that we learn as much as we can about elements of provocation. Not that there’s real provocation, but the elements of provocation, you got to make sure that you address them, because we’ve got to do is do what we can to try to prevent the situation from happening in any way. And I don’t think that’s broached enough, is all I’m saying. No point of blame.”


VIDEO
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Last edited by jodeke on Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:32 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
One more thing that I hope every parent has drummed into their kid's heads: Once you send something off into the internet, you can never get it back, and it will never go away. This especially applies to private sexual matters, but it also applies to off color jokes of a sexual or racial nature. As we have seen, this stuff can pop up many years later.


it is funny that you mention this....because we have already went heavy on this lesson. It started a couple years ago, not sure if you recall, but there was a young college/graduate female that began the process of getting revenge porn legislation passed. I do not recall her story exactly, but she basically sent some very personal images of herself to a male she was in a romantic relationship with....and after the relationship ended, he distributed those images online causing her great embarrassment. As an decent person would, I found his actions disgusting and had no sympathy for him and the consequences he faced. At the same time, I noticed that every time this female went on television....hosts were going out of their way to reinforce that she did nothing wrong, and had no fault. I simply disagreed. Yes, she was a victim, and I felt very sorry for the emotional toll she had suffered.....but we should have been using the situation more as a teaching moment. Once you push send, you have absolutely no control over the image or message that is sent from that point forward. Your friend or love interest today may not be tomorrow. You can pass all the laws you want, that females nude images will live on the internet forever. Again, all we can fully control is our personal actions.....laws do not control anyones actions, they only hold individuals accountable for those actions.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
SAS took that position and IMO he was misunderstood and was raked over the coals.

Analyze
Quote:
“There’s never an excuse to put your hands on a woman,” the often polarizing analyst said at one point in his nearly 2 1/2-minute monologue (watch it below). But later he added: “We also have to make sure that we learn as much as we can about elements of provocation. Not that there’s real provocation, but the elements of provocation, you got to make sure that you address them, because we’ve got to do is do what we can to try to prevent the situation from happening in any way. And I don’t think that’s broached enough, is all I’m saying. No point of blame.”


I think as society, we have a history of "blaming" the victim, and have become embarrassed about that past to the point that sometimes we over compensate now by avoiding touching anything that could be taken or resemble to appear placing responsibility on the victim. If I keep my life savings under the mattress, and you break into my home and steal/spend my life savings. I am not at fault for you committing a crime, and you should be prosecuted and go to jail. At the same time, my savings is gone, and hopefully others can take from the event that it would be wise to keep their savings in a safe or bank.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
jodeke wrote:
SAS took that position and IMO he was misunderstood and was raked over the coals.

Analyze
Quote:
“There’s never an excuse to put your hands on a woman,” the often polarizing analyst said at one point in his nearly 2 1/2-minute monologue (watch it below). But later he added: “We also have to make sure that we learn as much as we can about elements of provocation. Not that there’s real provocation, but the elements of provocation, you got to make sure that you address them, because we’ve got to do is do what we can to try to prevent the situation from happening in any way. And I don’t think that’s broached enough, is all I’m saying. No point of blame.”


I think as society, we have a history of "blaming" the victim, and have become embarrassed about that past to the point that sometimes we over compensate now by avoiding touching anything that could be taken or resemble to appear placing responsibility on the victim. If I keep my life savings under the mattress, and you break into my home and steal/spend my life savings. I am not at fault for you committing a crime, and you should be prosecuted and go to jail. At the same time, my savings is gone, and hopefully others can take from the event that it would be wise to keep their savings in a safe or bank.

If a woman gets intoxicated to the point she has no control she puts herself in a precarious position.

That being said it doesn't give a man the right to assault her. He should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. However there's a lesson for women in that scenario. Don't over drink and put yourself in that position.

If a drunk stumbles in the path of a vehicle in a crosswalk the driver will be prosecuted. If the drunk wasn't drunk he most likely wouldn't have stumbled into the path of a moving vehicle. IMO there's a shared fault, most given to the driver.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:56 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
SAS took that position and IMO he was misunderstood and was raked over the coals.

Analyze
Quote:
“There’s never an excuse to put your hands on a woman,” the often polarizing analyst said at one point in his nearly 2 1/2-minute monologue (watch it below). But later he added: “We also have to make sure that we learn as much as we can about elements of provocation. Not that there’s real provocation, but the elements of provocation, you got to make sure that you address them, because we’ve got to do is do what we can to try to prevent the situation from happening in any way. And I don’t think that’s broached enough, is all I’m saying. No point of blame.”
.


If he said that, he deserved to get ripped. “Provocation” is a tiny piece of the issue. It is frequently used by dinosaurs as the “She asked for it” argument. Just because a girl is flirty and wears revealing clothing does not mean that she is fair game. The larger issue is situational awareness. You wouldn’t walk down a dark alley in a bad part of town wearing expensive jewelry. A college girl shouldn’t go to a party at a frat house and get falling down drunk. It’s not about provocation. It’s about understanding that bad things can happen.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:04 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
jodeke wrote:
SAS took that position and IMO he was misunderstood and was raked over the coals.

Analyze
Quote:
“There’s never an excuse to put your hands on a woman,” the often polarizing analyst said at one point in his nearly 2 1/2-minute monologue (watch it below). But later he added: “We also have to make sure that we learn as much as we can about elements of provocation. Not that there’s real provocation, but the elements of provocation, you got to make sure that you address them, because we’ve got to do is do what we can to try to prevent the situation from happening in any way. And I don’t think that’s broached enough, is all I’m saying. No point of blame.”
.


If he said that, he deserved to get ripped. “Provocation” is a tiny piece of the issue. It is frequently used by dinosaurs as the “She asked for it” argument. Just because a girl is flirty and wears revealing clothing does not mean that she is fair game. The larger issue is situational awareness. You wouldn’t walk down a dark alley in a bad part of town wearing expensive jewelry. A college girl shouldn’t go to a party at a frat house and get falling down drunk. It’s not about provocation. It’s about understanding that bad things can happen.

That term is concerning. IMO it's not what he meant. To inject a overused term, I think he misspoke.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:10 am    Post subject:

But that’s what he does. He blusters and rages. He tries to provoke people. I caught a few minutes of his show the other day. He actually made Max Freaking Kellerman sound like the voice of reason.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:27 am    Post subject:

That's his shtick. He said, "I'm not on camera to be this way, I'm on camera because I am this way." Paraphrasing.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
It is frequently used by dinosaurs as the “She asked for it” argument. Just because a girl is flirty and wears revealing clothing does not mean that she is fair game.


It absolutely does not....but all I can say as a father is I want my daughter to know that someone may view her or a female that way is that situation. She cannot control others thoughts and perceptions. So while we should as society make it clear that is not acceptable thinking.....I do not want my daughter to rely on everyone else to have acceptable thoughts.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:41 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
It is frequently used by dinosaurs as the “She asked for it” argument. Just because a girl is flirty and wears revealing clothing does not mean that she is fair game.


It absolutely does not....but all I can say as a father is I want my daughter to know that someone may view her or a female that way is that situation. She cannot control others thoughts and perceptions. So while we should as society make it clear that is not acceptable thinking.....I do not want my daughter to rely on everyone else to have acceptable thoughts.


That's my point. There are predators out there. They will prey on a compromised female. If she's intoxicated they think she's fair game. As a parent and society as a whole we should pound, pound, pound, take care, don't compromise yourself.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:20 am    Post subject:

Cosby about to be sentenced. Over or under his getting time in jail. I think he'll get a slap on the wrist jail time. I say 6 months. Over or under.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject:

BRAKING NEWS. Cosby sentenced 3 to 10 years at a maximum security prison.

Is this a precursor to the sentencing of Harvey Weinstein?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:51 am    Post subject:

A maximum security prison? I think not. I don't think he'll be sharing a cell block with gangsters and drug lords.

Anyway, I don't know anything about Pennsylvania criminal law, but I'd expect him to come up for parole in a couple years if he lives that long.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
A maximum security prison? I think not. I don't think he'll be sharing a cell block with gangsters and drug lords.

Anyway, I don't know anything about Pennsylvania criminal law, but I'd expect him to come up for parole in a couple years if he lives that long.

He was sentenced to serve in a state prison. Aren't state prisons in Pennsylvania maximum security? I don't think he'll be housed in the general population. I was wrong. I thought his age would allow a lighter sentence.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:08 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
A maximum security prison? I think not. I don't think he'll be sharing a cell block with gangsters and drug lords.

Anyway, I don't know anything about Pennsylvania criminal law, but I'd expect him to come up for parole in a couple years if he lives that long.

He was sentenced to serve in a state prison. Aren't state prisons in Pennsylvania maximum security? I don't think he'll be housed in the general population. I was wrong. I thought his age would allow a lighter sentence.


There are all levels of state prisons from minimum to maximum security, based on danger and escape risk.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:18 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
A maximum security prison? I think not. I don't think he'll be sharing a cell block with gangsters and drug lords.

Anyway, I don't know anything about Pennsylvania criminal law, but I'd expect him to come up for parole in a couple years if he lives that long.

He was sentenced to serve in a state prison. Aren't state prisons in Pennsylvania maximum security? I don't think he'll be housed in the general population. I was wrong. I thought his age would allow a lighter sentence.


There are all levels of state prisons from minimum to maximum security, based on danger and escape risk.


I thought I heard the reporter on CBS2 say maximum security when the sentence was announced.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
A maximum security prison? I think not. I don't think he'll be sharing a cell block with gangsters and drug lords.

Anyway, I don't know anything about Pennsylvania criminal law, but I'd expect him to come up for parole in a couple years if he lives that long.

He was sentenced to serve in a state prison. Aren't state prisons in Pennsylvania maximum security? I don't think he'll be housed in the general population. I was wrong. I thought his age would allow a lighter sentence.


There are all levels of state prisons from minimum to maximum security, based on danger and escape risk.


And we all know that no ordinary prison can hold Bill Cosby. He'll need to be in a cell next to Hannibal Lector.
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