OFFICIAL NBA ROOKIE OF THE YEAR (2017-18)
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Runway8
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:28 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Simmons
Ball
Fox
Collins
Tatum
Markkanen
DSJ
Kuzma
Jackson


you cannot be serious...you have the guy that besides one outlier game against PHX is averaging 5 Points a game, and shooting 22% from 3 at #2....that is ridiculous!

De'Aaron Fox is leading his team in scoring and is averaging 15/5/5 with a PER of 19.4....in 27 MPG.

Markkanen is averaging 16 & 9 while shooting 46% from 3 and a 60% true shooting %.

Tatum is averaging 15 / 8 / 2 while shooting 46% from 3 and a 60% true shooting %.

John Collins is averaging 12 & 8 in 19 MPG. Has a PER of 25.46.

DSJ is averaging 15 PPG, 3 RPG, 5 APG in 29 minutes while shooting 49% from the field.

No way you put Ball ahead of any of those guys as of today.

I'll deal with this tomorrow at a reasonable hour, but your Ball hate is a bad look.


I just gave you sufficient detailed evidence....beyond that, you know how high I am on Jackson....but I recognize Ball has outperformed him as of today. Do I now hate Jackson too? It is not a prediction....just an honest view a couple weeks into the season.


Is your criteria just scoring? Of all the important stat categories, Ball is the only rookie who's a top 5 in a category, the assists category. You're not talking about Ball's dimes and boards, so you're skewing it a bit. I don't think the public/media would have 5 guys ahead of him. Winning will also be factored in ultimately. I mean Dallas is 1-5, so that will hurt DSJ.

I think Ball's dimes and boards are going nowhere. Meaning it's going to be that good for the rest of the year. The other rookies have no shot at catching him there. But his shooting has no where to go but up. In the end, I think it will come down to Simmons and Ball. Hopefully because that would mean it was a good year for us.
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Practice
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:40 pm    Post subject:

Discounting games as an outlier, especially this early is lame IMO. If you discount DSJ's second game his shooting numbers drop significantly.

Right now I would say the award goes to Simmons.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:34 am    Post subject:

Practice wrote:
Discounting games as an outlier, especially this early is lame IMO. If you discount DSJ's second game his shooting numbers drop significantly.

Right now I would say the award goes to Simmons.


I did not discount it in my list...I simply pointed it out.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:37 am    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Simmons
Ball
Fox
Collins
Tatum
Markkanen
DSJ
Kuzma
Jackson


you cannot be serious...you have the guy that besides one outlier game against PHX is averaging 5 Points a game, and shooting 22% from 3 at #2....that is ridiculous!

De'Aaron Fox is leading his team in scoring and is averaging 15/5/5 with a PER of 19.4....in 27 MPG.

Markkanen is averaging 16 & 9 while shooting 46% from 3 and a 60% true shooting %.

Tatum is averaging 15 / 8 / 2 while shooting 46% from 3 and a 60% true shooting %.

John Collins is averaging 12 & 8 in 19 MPG. Has a PER of 25.46.

DSJ is averaging 15 PPG, 3 RPG, 5 APG in 29 minutes while shooting 49% from the field.

No way you put Ball ahead of any of those guys as of today.

I'll deal with this tomorrow at a reasonable hour, but your Ball hate is a bad look.


I just gave you sufficient detailed evidence....beyond that, you know how high I am on Jackson....but I recognize Ball has outperformed him as of today. Do I now hate Jackson too? It is not a prediction....just an honest view a couple weeks into the season.


Is your criteria just scoring? Of all the important stat categories, Ball is the only rookie who's a top 5 in a category, the assists category. You're not talking about Ball's dimes and boards, so you're skewing it a bit. I don't think the public/media would have 5 guys ahead of him. Winning will also be factored in ultimately. I mean Dallas is 1-5, so that will hurt DSJ.

I think Ball's dimes and boards are going nowhere. Meaning it's going to be that good for the rest of the year. The other rookies have no shot at catching him there. But his shooting has no where to go but up. In the end, I think it will come down to Simmons and Ball. Hopefully because that would mean it was a good year for us.


Simply do not know how you could read my explanation for each player, then respond is it only about scoring. The list has nothing to do with who will ultimately win....it is not a prediction. It is simply a list of who has played the best 2 weeks into a long season. So which of the 5 guys ahead of him do you feel has not played better than Ball during the past 2 weeks?
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:25 am    Post subject:

Gotta agree with adkindo here. Ball hasn't played well enough relative to the other rookies YET, to be considered up there.

However you feel about scoring, it is possibly THE top factor in ROY voting. On top of that, his scoring is a liability right now so far. I think thats the difference.

Based on first 4 or 5 games, I'd put Fox, DSJ, Tatum, and Markkanen slightly ahead of Ball.

But if Ball consistently puts up around his 11/9/9 average, then, you gotta say he's up there. Honestly, its gonna be hard for a 19 yr old to get ROY when you have polished 4+ year guys competing for it too.

I'd also put Mike James on the list somewhere.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:54 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Gotta agree with adkindo here. Ball hasn't played well enough relative to the other rookies YET, to be considered up there.

However you feel about scoring, it is possibly THE top factor in ROY voting. On top of that, his scoring is a liability right now so far. I think thats the difference.

Based on first 4 or 5 games, I'd put Fox, DSJ, Tatum, and Markkanen slightly ahead of Ball.

But if Ball consistently puts up around his 11/9/9 average, then, you gotta say he's up there. Honestly, its gonna be hard for a 19 yr old to get ROY when you have polished 4+ year guys competing for it too.

I'd also put Mike James on the list somewhere.


I fully expect Ball to be in top 3 by seasons end....I would probably bet money on it.
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unleasHell
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:24 am    Post subject:

Simmons by a mile...
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tox
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject:

I gotta say, Tatum's stats look pretty good. Haven't watched him play but still, for a rookie, not bad.

Jaylen Brown OTOH....
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Lonzo'sBalls
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject:

unleasHell wrote:
Simmons by a mile...


This.

And the gap will only grow.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject:

Lonzo'sBalls wrote:
unleasHell wrote:
Simmons by a mile...


This.

And the gap will only grow.


Grew a little more tonight. Guy is absurd.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:18 pm    Post subject:

Malik Monk finally showed up.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:34 pm    Post subject:

DSJ vs. Berverly tonight....
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:33 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
DSJ vs. Berverly tonight....


http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=21257562


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PHILosophize
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject:

Simmons














Markkanen
Tatum
Fox
Kooz
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ryan_c
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:25 pm    Post subject:

Simmons.
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Jhin0821
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:50 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, no way Ball is even in the discussion.
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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:39 am    Post subject:

Simmons by a country mile.

If this fool learns to shoot, GG to the league.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:11 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
DSJ vs. Berverly tonight....


DSJ had a little more success...ton of TO's, but it was not his very first game in the NBA on national television....so not much to take from it.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:48 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
Simmons by a country mile.

If this fool learns to shoot, GG to the league.


Was just telling a sixers friend of mine this. If Simmons learns to shoot he could end up being Lebron-esque.

Simmons has about 7 years of inproving before he hits his prime. Scary stuff. He's a year younger than Josh Hart.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:25 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
adkindo wrote:
DSJ vs. Berverly tonight....


DSJ had a little more success...ton of TO's, but it was not his very first game in the NBA on national television....so not much to take from it.


That hammer dunk in the 1st Q was nice
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:42 am    Post subject:

Simmons is a beast.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject:

Rookies by BPM (min. 20mpg)

1) Ben Simmons........+4.4
2) Jayson Tatum........+2.4
3) Kyle Kuzma...........+1.9
4) Lonzo Ball..............-0.3
5) Dillon Brooks..........-1.0
6) Mike James............-1.0
7) Lauri Markaanen.....-1.6
8) Dwayne Bacon........-2.9
9) De'Aaron Fox..........-3.2
10) Malik Monk...........-3.6
11) Donovan Mitchell...-4.3
12) Josh Jackson.........-5.0
13) Dennis Smith, Jr....-6.0
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:35 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Rookies by BPM (min. 20mpg)

1) Ben Simmons........+4.4
2) Jayson Tatum........+2.4
3) Kyle Kuzma...........+1.9
4) Lonzo Ball..............-0.3
5) Dillon Brooks..........-1.0
6) Mike James............-1.0
7) Lauri Markaanen.....-1.6
8) Dwayne Bacon........-2.9
9) De'Aaron Fox..........-3.2
10) Malik Monk...........-3.6
11) Donovan Mitchell...-4.3
12) Josh Jackson.........-5.0
13) Dennis Smith, Jr....-6.0

Lonzo really benefits from the synergy between assists and rebounds as part of the DBPM calculation that tox identified. It's a flaw and is inflating his value above how he's really performed so far.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Rookies by BPM (min. 20mpg)

1) Ben Simmons........+4.4
2) Jayson Tatum........+2.4
3) Kyle Kuzma...........+1.9
4) Lonzo Ball..............-0.3
5) Dillon Brooks..........-1.0
6) Mike James............-1.0
7) Lauri Markaanen.....-1.6
8) Dwayne Bacon........-2.9
9) De'Aaron Fox..........-3.2
10) Malik Monk...........-3.6
11) Donovan Mitchell...-4.3
12) Josh Jackson.........-5.0
13) Dennis Smith, Jr....-6.0


Dwayne Bacon?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject:

Simmons filling it up. 14/11/11 in a win over Pacers.
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