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iam
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 Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:43 am Post subject: Per Luke, starting lineup still up in the air. Deng for PF? |
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| Other than PF, the other 4 are pretty much locked in. Im in favor of bringing Randle off the bench. What are your thoughts on Deng as a starting PF? Lonzo needs another capable shooter to play with and I'm beginning to question Nance's ceiling. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| The shooting woes are so bad I think they have to seriously consider it. At least as a place holder until they feel it's appropriate to move Kuzma in there. |
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iam
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | The shooting woes are so bad I think they have to seriously consider it. At least as a place holder until they feel it's appropriate to move Kuzma in there. |
That's a great point. Similar story with BI last year. Put a veteran in starting lineup to start the season. |
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Ziggy
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Luke is looking for the best complement to Brook. Per ESPN:
| Quote: | | Larry Nance Jr. knows he could be starting at power forward to open the season based on how his strengths complement Brook Lopez's perimeter game and Lonzo Ball's ability to push and create. "There is so much that goes into it," Nance said. "If it was strictly who was averaging most points, it's obvious. If it is strictly who is playing the best defense, there you go. Rebounds, there you go. If it was one thing specific, it would be very obvious but the reason why it is so jumbled, it is a lineup deal. We have a superstar center that somebody has to mesh with very well, offensively and defensively. That is what [Luke Walton] has been trying to do, figure out which personality and which play styles plays best with Brook. If that is me, great. If it's not, so be it. I am just ready to play my role, whatever it is." |
| Quote: | | Luke Walton's decision on who to start at power forward between Larry Nance Jr., Julius Randle and even Kyle Kuzma may be based more on who fits best with Lonzo Ball and Brook Lopez's perimeter shooting and who can fit best with the second unit and perhaps provide a punch. That could be why Nance has started the last three preseason games with Randle coming off bench. "It is more than who is playing better than the other two," Walton explained. "You got to think about making the second unit solid and a threat to be able to score enough and who plays well with Brook's shooting... Whoever ends up being that position for us, with the young team that we have, we expect there to be some leadership... they're going to have to be open and willing to do multiple things. There might be times when Julius might be playing the backup five and Kuz at four, and there might be times where Larry is at the five, and Julius at the four and Kuz at the three." |
Deng's name is nowhere to be found. Just forget he's even on the team. |
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dao
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Deng is more likely to DNP's than start. But if you think about it, starting him actually makes some sense. He's probably still a solid player at the 4. He's certainly a much better shooter than Randle/Nance, and he's a solid team defender.
Ball
KCP
Ingram
Deng
Lopez
Ennis/Caruso
Clarkson
Kuzma
Nance
Randle
That sort of works. But Randle is probably going to be the starter imo. |
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Goldenwest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| Makes sense. Deng showed life again in the preseason and he's a savy vet who still knows how to make the right play. I feel Randle still goes ISO mode too much and gets himself in trouble too many times. Let him learn coming off the bench and help proved that up tempo scoring punch. Caruso may be just the guy to find Randle in the right spots. |
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dao
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| If Luke truly wants Randle's shot creation on the second unit, I think I'd prefer Deng in the starting lineup over Nance. Deng's shooting at the 4 would be quite beneficial to the spacing of the first unit. Nance is a better rebounder than Deng though. So starting Deng over Nance would be sacrificing rebounding in favor of spacing. That sacrifice makes sense to me. But Luke doesn't seem to be considering Deng at all. |
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Runway8
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:50 am Post subject: |
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Strategizing and focusing around a guy you may not resign. The Lakers are terrible at developing the future. They're always angling for that "win now" strategy, and they convince themselves by thinking it's a good thing to bring on the young guys slowly. Randle should be starting. You need to see if you want to extend him, or create trade value for him. D'Lo should have had 35+ minutes out the gate last year to develop him after being leashed by B. Scott. But he was held back because guys like Lou and Nick Young were hot, guys that you have no intention of having a future with.
So this year, okay, I get it.. we want to win as many games as possible, to attract the big boys. But is it really an attraction when the guys responsible for your winning won't be resigned? I think Lebron and PG13 would be more interested to see if Lonzo, Ingram, Kuzma, Randle could play. If they strike out again.. it's another year of focusing on the wrong players down the toilet. |
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Runway8
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Stuff was always up in the air last year, I hate that crap. Focus on a 9 man rotation with your best 5 playing over 30 minutes. You know, like the rest of the league. This just tells me, we are in for another season of 10-11 man rotation, everybody playing 25 minutes or less. No one getting enough minutes to break out. Nightly "Up in the air" starting 5 means you have no rock solid plan. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:57 am Post subject: |
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I think this whole indecisive thing is not a credit to Luke, but evidence of his inexperience. Decide that a player has a role and get him to play within that role. You go with the players who are the best and give them the most minutes, and then help them to adapt to a playing style from there.... or adapt yourself to them because the best players need to be on the floor.
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iam
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| dao wrote: | | So starting Deng over Nance would be sacrificing rebounding in favor of spacing. That sacrifice makes sense to me. But Luke doesn't seem to be considering Deng at all. |
I agree with your statement though keep in mind I can easily see Lonzo averaging 4 - 6 rebounds per game, on all the defensive end. He goes after rebounds and has the advantage due to his height. |
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Laker's Fan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | I think this whole indecisive thing is not a credit to Luke, but evidence of his inexperience. Decide that a player has a role and get him to play within that role. You go with the players who are the best and give them the most minutes, and then help them to adapt to a playing style from there.... or adapt yourself to them because the best players need to be on the floor. |
I actually think it's pretty clear what the deal is and Luke is treading lightly until a couple things settle. If you start Brook, Nance is the natural pairing. Randle and Kuzma have also shown some promise together. Randle is the better player than Nance but the benefits of the right pairings can't be ignored.
Randle is a top five HS recruit, one-and-done lotto pick from Kentucky. He's been prepped to slide into a max-type starter role since he was probably fifteen. He's also discussing an extension with LA who probably isn't going to make him a serious offer because they want t preserve space. And it's not like the Kawhi or Drummond situation where the team is saying the max is yours in a year. LA is having to hedge for possibly not matching an offer in a year. Add to that the player's agent also reps George (and a guy we already shipped out) and this is one of the trickiest situations I can recall. Also consider he just saw Wiggins and Embiid, guys he considers contemporaries, each get $148 million deals.
In the midst of those discussions to have the coach come out and say you lost your starting gig would be very difficult. It may be moot if Randle is on the IR to start the season though.
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LandsbergerRules
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Give Deng enough minutes to hopefully convince another team to take him off our hands.
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | I think this whole indecisive thing is not a credit to Luke, but evidence of his inexperience. Decide that a player has a role and get him to play within that role. You go with the players who are the best and give them the most minutes, and then help them to adapt to a playing style from there.... or adapt yourself to them because the best players need to be on the floor. |
I actually think it's pretty clear what the deal is and Luke is treading lightly until a couple things settle. If you start Brook, Nance is the natural pairing. Randle and Kuzma have also shown some promise together. Randle is the better player than Nance but the benefits of the right pairings can't be ignored.
Randle is a top five HS recruit, one-and-done lotto pick from Kentucky. He's been prepped to slide into a max-type starter role since he was probably fifteen. He's also discussing an extension with LA who probably isn't going to make him a serious offer because they want t preserve space. And it's not like the Kawhi or Drummond situation where the team is saying the max is yours in a year. LA is having to hedge for possibly not matching an offer in a year. Add to that the player's agent also reps George (and a guy we already shipped out) and this is one of the trickiest situations I can recall. Also consider he just saw Wiggins and Embiid, guys he considers contemporaries, each get $148 million deals.
In the midst of those discussions to have the coach come out and say you lost your starting gig would be very difficult. It may be moot if Randle is on the IR to start the season though. |
This year is about winning games. Randle starting and getting 30+ minutes per game over Nance is how you give yourself a best chance to do that. You also don't make roster moves based on speculative notions regarding free agency, especially when Randle could very well be re-signed next summer, and you definitely don't do it at the cost of wins which could diminish our chances of getting the same free agents you are going to try to go after. That's the bottom line to me.
I honestly see this as part of Luke's growing pains. Leaders shouldn't be indecisive. For good or bad, they need to have a vision and the confidence to implement it.
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PHILosophize
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Ball
KCP
Ingram
Kooz
Lopez
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| PHILosophize wrote: | Ball
KCP
Ingram
Kooz
Lopez |
KCP is out and Griffin would love Kuzma trying to guard him.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | I think this whole indecisive thing is not a credit to Luke, but evidence of his inexperience. Decide that a player has a role and get him to play within that role. You go with the players who are the best and give them the most minutes, and then help them to adapt to a playing style from there.... or adapt yourself to them because the best players need to be on the floor. |
I actually think it's pretty clear what the deal is and Luke is treading lightly until a couple things settle. If you start Brook, Nance is the natural pairing. Randle and Kuzma have also shown some promise together. Randle is the better player than Nance but the benefits of the right pairings can't be ignored.
Randle is a top five HS recruit, one-and-done lotto pick from Kentucky. He's been prepped to slide into a max-type starter role since he was probably fifteen. He's also discussing an extension with LA who probably isn't going to make him a serious offer because they want t preserve space. And it's not like the Kawhi or Drummond situation where the team is saying the max is yours in a year. LA is having to hedge for possibly not matching an offer in a year. Add to that the player's agent also reps George (and a guy we already shipped out) and this is one of the trickiest situations I can recall. Also consider he just saw Wiggins and Embiid, guys he considers contemporaries, each get $148 million deals.
In the midst of those discussions to have the coach come out and say you lost your starting gig would be very difficult. It may be moot if Randle is on the IR to start the season though. |
It's probably about Lonzo, too. Nance's superior finishing ability and end to end speed make him the better fit. Both are equally bad on the perimeter so there's no advantage there.
Last edited by greenfrog on Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hero Ball
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:56 am Post subject: |
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C-Zu
PF-Lopez
SF-Ingram
SG-Zo
PG-Ennis
Bench
C-Randle
PF-Nance
SF-Kuzma
SG-Clarkson
PG-Caruso
TBryant, Hart
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Trade AD now.
Last edited by Hero Ball on Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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defense
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:57 am Post subject: |
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I think the truth is that we don't have a talented team. everyone is riding for their favorite guy but the bottom line is that he has to keep trying different things because we are that bad. What's he supposed to do, let a group performing terribly just continue? People say he should play this guy or that guy and he should be giving such and such 35 minutes. The reality is if he did that Laker fans would probably riot when they see the terrible product of that.
As far as Nance and Randle, Randle has been so underwhelming that his starting spot has been threatened by a guy most people consider a role player for the third season. That is not anyone's fault but his. It's the same for Deng, Ingram and the ever erratic Clarkson. They have been bad, sometimes really bad. |
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PHILosophize
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | PHILosophize wrote: | Ball
KCP
Ingram
Kooz
Lopez |
KCP is out and Griffin would love Kuzma trying to guard him. |
Nance instead of KCP for games 1 and 2, play a box and one against Blake if we need to.
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epak
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Per Luke, starting lineup still up in the air. Deng for PF? |
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| iam wrote: | | Other than PF, the other 4 are pretty much locked in. Im in favor of bringing Randle off the bench. What are your thoughts on Deng as a starting PF? Lonzo needs another capable shooter to play with and I'm beginning to question Nance's ceiling. |
Just fyi, we don't keep our 1st rounder this year. No point in tanking. |
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Texas_Pete
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MJST
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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its very clear which power forward goes best with Lopez and the starting lineup. The one who is our teams best rebounder, can pass and isn't invisible on offense would be the one.
keep in mind Luke has never played Randle and Lopez starting together as of yet.
He literally has nothing else to go on.
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Last edited by MJST on Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TheBlackMamba
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | I think this whole indecisive thing is not a credit to Luke, but evidence of his inexperience. Decide that a player has a role and get him to play within that role. You go with the players who are the best and give them the most minutes, and then help them to adapt to a playing style from there.... or adapt yourself to them because the best players need to be on the floor. |
I actually think it's pretty clear what the deal is and Luke is treading lightly until a couple things settle. If you start Brook, Nance is the natural pairing. Randle and Kuzma have also shown some promise together. Randle is the better player than Nance but the benefits of the right pairings can't be ignored.
Randle is a top five HS recruit, one-and-done lotto pick from Kentucky. He's been prepped to slide into a max-type starter role since he was probably fifteen. He's also discussing an extension with LA who probably isn't going to make him a serious offer because they want t preserve space. And it's not like the Kawhi or Drummond situation where the team is saying the max is yours in a year. LA is having to hedge for possibly not matching an offer in a year. Add to that the player's agent also reps George (and a guy we already shipped out) and this is one of the trickiest situations I can recall. Also consider he just saw Wiggins and Embiid, guys he considers contemporaries, each get $148 million deals.
In the midst of those discussions to have the coach come out and say you lost your starting gig would be very difficult. It may be moot if Randle is on the IR to start the season though. |
This year is about winning games. Randle starting and getting 30+ minutes per game over Nance is how you give yourself a best chance to do that. You also don't make roster moves based on speculative notions regarding free agency, especially when Randle could very well be re-signed next summer, and you definitely don't do it at the cost of wins which could diminish our chances of getting the same free agents you are going to try to go after. That's the bottom line to me.
I honestly see this as part of Luke's growing pains. Leaders shouldn't be indecisive. For good or bad, they need to have a vision and the confidence to implement it. |
I don't think Randle playing 30+ MPG so definitively gives us our best shot at winning games - certainly nothing I've seen in preseason gives me that impression. He's had a solid run, and he's likely the best player of the group, but winning games depends on more than just raw talent. Like they're all saying, fit on both ends should also determine who gets minutes, and Jules just hasn't shown enough improvement with his shooting to come ahead in that category. And obviously Nance hasn't either.
To me, it really comes down to Kuz and Deng, and it's a damn shame that Luke has seemingly forgotten about the latter in this whole discussion. I really think he's the best option to start and play some token minutes at the 4 to start both halves, provide some spacing for that Brook/Lonzo combo, and give us a solid veteran presence that can still play some decent D, too. Kuz is green, so I can understand not starting him, but I have no idea why Deng hasn't been given a chance to prove himself after he gave us some pretty good minutes in the first two games he played this preseason.
Then you bring the Jules/Kuz one-two punch off the bench, with Jules getting the most minutes and likely closing games at the 4. I think Nance is the odd man out simply because he gives us nil on offense. |
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Purp 32
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I bet Randle asks for a trade if he's riding the pine. He wants to get paid, playing backup minutes isn't going to help him land the deal he thinks he's worth. |
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