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Omar Little
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 Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | Strategizing and focusing around a guy you may not resign. The Lakers are terrible at developing the future. They're always angling for that "win now" strategy, and they convince themselves by thinking it's a good thing to bring on the young guys slowly. Randle should be starting. You need to see if you want to extend him, or create trade value for him. D'Lo should have had 35+ minutes out the gate last year to develop him after being leashed by B. Scott. But he was held back because guys like Lou and Nick Young were hot, guys that you have no intention of having a future with.
So this year, okay, I get it.. we want to win as many games as possible, to attract the big boys. But is it really an attraction when the guys responsible for your winning won't be resigned? I think Lebron and PG13 would be more interested to see if Lonzo, Ingram, Kuzma, Randle could play. If they strike out again.. it's another year of focusing on the wrong players down the toilet. |
I've always gotten the impression that the Lakers take a one foot in, one foot out approach because they don't believe the fan base would accept a out-and-out rebuilding. I think it's more of a business / marketing thing than anything else |
Dr. Buss is gone, what we have left are his kids who are ill equipped to carry on his vision. We need someone in the ownership group to break out more than we need a player to break out. |
Jesse in the scouting department hasn't shown to be a rock star? |
He isn’t in a decision making position |
So I guess it was Magic who figured out on his own to select Kuzma. Great, the team is in good hands! |
Magic or Pelinka made that decision |
And they went with the scouts on the lower picks
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | lakeshow03 wrote: | | Agreed. Any good coach knows that players usually play their best when they know and understand their role, regardless if starting or not. The uncertainty of it is almost always more negative than good |
Which player is confused about his role? The only reasonable example I can even think that qualifies is Deng. |
Which players other than Lonzo Ball and KCP aren't? That's the better question.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | lakeshow03 wrote: | | Agreed. Any good coach knows that players usually play their best when they know and understand their role, regardless if starting or not. The uncertainty of it is almost always more negative than good |
Which player is confused about his role? The only reasonable example I can even think that qualifies is Deng. |
Which players other than Lonzo Ball and KCP aren't? That's the better question. |
Brook doesn't know he's the floor spacer and occasional post threat?
JC doesn't know he's the "microwave" sixth man?
Randle and Nance don't know they're supposed to run the floor, play defense, and take open jumpshots?
Ingram seemed confused at the start by his role, but has settled in to some very productive playmaking.
This is a complaint made up out of whole cloth. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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^Nope, you just made up roles for them that you think they have, when there isn't evidence that's what they are limited to what-so-ever, nor how many minutes they should expect to play per game.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | ^Nope, you just made up roles for them that you think they have, when there isn't evidence that's what they are limited to what-so-ever, nor how many minutes they should expect to play per game. |
Right, that's why he's totally wiped Randle's pet play from a year ago and restricted his ball handing in transition... not to limit him.
As far as the other players (as if this has anything to do with them), Luke almost verbatim said that was Brook's role during a live game interview on Friday. He's also said JC winning sixth man of the year is "fair goal for him", and that they expect Ingram to be a playmaker. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | lakeshow03 wrote: | | Agreed. Any good coach knows that players usually play their best when they know and understand their role, regardless if starting or not. The uncertainty of it is almost always more negative than good |
Which player is confused about his role? The only reasonable example I can even think that qualifies is Deng. |
Which players other than Lonzo Ball and KCP aren't? That's the better question. |
Brook doesn't know he's the floor spacer and occasional post threat?
JC doesn't know he's the "microwave" sixth man?
Randle and Nance don't know they're supposed to run the floor, play defense, and take open jumpshots?
Ingram seemed confused at the start by his role, but has settled in to some very productive playmaking.
This is a complaint made up out of whole cloth. |
The vets know their job.
JC has been asked to be more of a playmaker by the coaching staff multiple times. But, is he more of a playmaker? Or the 6th man scoring firepower?
Is Julius Randle a stud backup PF/C, potentially in a 6th man role?
Is LNJ best as a starter next to Lopez? Or does he provide the energy off the bench?
Do we even consider exploiting KCP's PnR ability to get Lonzo's off-ball game going?
Does Kuzma start? Where's Kuzma in the mix of PFs and Cs? Does he get any SF time?
Where's Deng in this? He's one of the few positives from last year and everyone just craps on him because he's been inconsistent, but he's been playing out of position at SF instead of PF. Now, where is he in the mix?
Is RAndle the backup C right after Lopez? What about Zubac? Bogut even?
We don't even know the primary roles for the team.
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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^Yep. No idea who starts, how many minutes they are going to play or how they fit in with Zo. For every quote you can find where Luke says "so and so should do this" you can find a quote where he mitigates that statement by saying they should do the opposite, or that whatever the instruction might be "is just for now until later when we XX happens."
Everything is constantly wait and see. And its not like this perspective is just based on what he says, because you see it with the chronic disorganization and constantly changing lineups on the floor too.
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22
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | ^Nope, you just made up roles for them that you think they have, when there isn't evidence that's what they are limited to what-so-ever, nor how many minutes they should expect to play per game. |
Right, that's why he's totally wiped Randle's pet play from a year ago and restricted his ball handing in transition... not to limit him.
As far as the other players (as if this has anything to do with them), Luke almost verbatim said that was Brook's role during a live game interview on Friday. He's also said JC winning sixth man of the year is "fair goal for him", and that they expect Ingram to be a playmaker. |
Actually Luke limited all of the bigs ball handling in transition and he said that’s only temporary to get them used to running with Zo. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | The vets know their job.
JC has been asked to be more of a playmaker by the coaching staff multiple times. But, is he more of a playmaker? Or the 6th man scoring firepower? [He's JC. There's no mystery or uncertainty here]
Is Julius Randle a stud backup PF/C, potentially in a 6th man role? [I think clearly he would get more leeway to be "the stud" if he comes off the bench. The restrictions were likely put in place to prepare him for playing with Ball]
Is LNJ best as a starter next to Lopez? Or does he provide the energy off the bench? [No difference whatsoever. He's playing like Larry]
Do we even consider exploiting KCP's PnR ability to get Lonzo's off-ball game going? [Yeah, he did that in the two games they played together]
Does Kuzma start? Where's Kuzma in the mix of PFs and Cs? Does he get any SF time? [Luke said there's a 10% chance he starts, and he's been playing the 3.]
Where's Deng in this? He's one of the few positives from last year and everyone just craps on him because he's been inconsistent, but he's been playing out of position at SF instead of PF. Now, where is he in the mix? [I mentioned this]
Is RAndle the backup C right after Lopez? What about Zubac? Bogut even? [Like with every team, a little bit of everything based on match-ups]
We don't even know the primary roles for the team. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | ^Yep. No idea who starts, how many minutes they are going to play or how they fit in with Zo. For every quote you can find where Luke says "so and so should do this" you can find a quote where he mitigates that statement by saying they should do the opposite, or that whatever the instruction might be "is just for now until later when we XX happens."
Everything is constantly wait and see. And its not like this perspective is just based on what he says, because you see it with the chronic disorganization and constantly changing lineups on the floor too. |
lol. There's literally one position that's up in the air, and it's plainly obvious it's between two players. But you have "No idea who starts"... |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | ^Nope, you just made up roles for them that you think they have, when there isn't evidence that's what they are limited to what-so-ever, nor how many minutes they should expect to play per game. |
Right, that's why he's totally wiped Randle's pet play from a year ago and restricted his ball handing in transition... not to limit him.
As far as the other players (as if this has anything to do with them), Luke almost verbatim said that was Brook's role during a live game interview on Friday. He's also said JC winning sixth man of the year is "fair goal for him", and that they expect Ingram to be a playmaker. |
Actually Luke limited all of the bigs ball handling in transition and he said that’s only temporary to get them used to running with Zo. |
Why isn't he running the DHO's and kickbacks in the halfcourt then? It's not just in transition. That was his bread and butter move every time he was faced with a wide open jumpshot last season. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | The vets know their job.
JC has been asked to be more of a playmaker by the coaching staff multiple times. But, is he more of a playmaker? Or the 6th man scoring firepower? [He's JC. There's no mystery or uncertainty here]
Is Julius Randle a stud backup PF/C, potentially in a 6th man role? [I think clearly he would get more leeway to be "the stud" if he comes off the bench. The restrictions were likely put in place to prepare him for playing with Ball]
Is LNJ best as a starter next to Lopez? Or does he provide the energy off the bench? [No difference whatsoever. He's playing like Larry]
Do we even consider exploiting KCP's PnR ability to get Lonzo's off-ball game going? [Yeah, he did that in the two games they played together]
Does Kuzma start? Where's Kuzma in the mix of PFs and Cs? Does he get any SF time? [Luke said there's a 10% chance he starts, and he's been playing the 3.]
Where's Deng in this? He's one of the few positives from last year and everyone just craps on him because he's been inconsistent, but he's been playing out of position at SF instead of PF. Now, where is he in the mix? [I mentioned this]
Is RAndle the backup C right after Lopez? What about Zubac? Bogut even? [Like with every team, a little bit of everything based on match-ups]
We don't even know the primary roles for the team. |
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1. You'd be shocked at JC's PnR shooting percentages and offensive effectiveness. Even I can tell he's passing far more often (which isn't much) and teammates aren't ready or defenses get deflections. He's making the effort. There's uncertainty there.
| Quote: |
Cranjis McBasketball @T1m_NBA Oct 14
More
Jordan Clarkson was 9/14 scoring from the pick and roll (89th %ile PPP) and guys shot 7/12 after his PnR kickouts |
This is exactly why I asked the question of putting JC next to Lonzo Ball to set up Zo's off-ball game. Instead of just being the microwave scorer, he's actually utilizing screens and kicking out for open shots.
2. You're saying JR would be "the stud" off the pine, but that's not what JR wants. LNJ doesn't seem to care that much. That doesn't mean that's clear either.
3. LNJ seems likely to start next to Lopez just for the perimeter defense and off-ball movement. Also, much higher chance of Lopez getting touches in the post.
4. KCP has never played backup PG, despite showing some passing ability. Since when did KCP set up JC or Caruso?
5. I don't think Kuzma has been playing that much 3 time, and if anything, he's most effective at 4 with Randle at 5. That's been the highlight off the bench the past several games, even with Kuzma cooling off.
6. You mentioned this, so, where is Deng in the mix? Is he even in the mix?
7. "Based on matchups" seems to be what the Lakers staff is going with, but that doesn't mean the roles within the team are so definitive. Hell, the young Laker players themselves are trying to find where they fit within all of this while expanding their own skill levels.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Mike ( a t ) LG, KCP was running PnR's with Randle in the two games when Lonzo was active. I distinctly recall this because I was complaining in the live game thread that they should let Lonzo do more of it. I don't view it either as "playing pg" so much as secondary or occasional playmaking duty, probably not much different to the pick and rolls he ran in Detroit.
Regarding JC, you're right. I am shocked. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | Mike@LG, KCP was running PnR's with Randle in the two games when Lonzo was active. I distinctly recall this because I was complaining in the live game thread that they should let Lonzo do more of it. I don't view it either as "playing pg" so much as secondary or occasional playmaking duty, probably not much different to the pick and rolls he ran in Detroit.
Regarding JC, you're right. I am shocked. |
The latter of Lonzo's last game, he was actually playing A LOT more off ball (straight up 2 guard/Nick Young position IMHO).
Frankly, I prefer it. There are so many PG burners in the West.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | Mike@LG, KCP was running PnR's with Randle in the two games when Lonzo was active. I distinctly recall this because I was complaining in the live game thread that they should let Lonzo do more of it. I don't view it either as "playing pg" so much as secondary or occasional playmaking duty, probably not much different to the pick and rolls he ran in Detroit.
Regarding JC, you're right. I am shocked. |
The latter of Lonzo's last game, he was actually playing A LOT more off ball (straight up 2 guard/Nick Young position IMHO).
Frankly, I prefer it. There are so many PG burners in the West. |
I think he could be so much more effective playing more off ball in the half court. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | lakeshow03 wrote: | | Agreed. Any good coach knows that players usually play their best when they know and understand their role, regardless if starting or not. The uncertainty of it is almost always more negative than good |
Which player is confused about his role? The only reasonable example I can even think that qualifies is Deng. |
I might add KCP to the mix. Not sure how he fits in yet. |
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22
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | ^Nope, you just made up roles for them that you think they have, when there isn't evidence that's what they are limited to what-so-ever, nor how many minutes they should expect to play per game. |
Right, that's why he's totally wiped Randle's pet play from a year ago and restricted his ball handing in transition... not to limit him.
As far as the other players (as if this has anything to do with them), Luke almost verbatim said that was Brook's role during a live game interview on Friday. He's also said JC winning sixth man of the year is "fair goal for him", and that they expect Ingram to be a playmaker. |
Actually Luke limited all of the bigs ball handling in transition and he said that’s only temporary to get them used to running with Zo. |
Why isn't he running the DHO's and kickbacks in the halfcourt then? It's not just in transition. That was his bread and butter move every time he was faced with a wide open jumpshot last season. |
Mainly because they don't have hardly any of their offense installed and have only been running their delay series this preseason. Also, DLO & Swaggy P aren't here anymore and those were the main guys they ran it with |
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AshesToAshes
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:46 am Post subject: |
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I don't see anyone doing anything so well that they can use it to impose themselves on the opposing team.
Hopefully that was part of the pre-season. Let them try, give them the goals to widen their range, let them fail to show and prove where they need to focus.
is jc already worthy of 6th man, was DLo already the prodigy, ingrams breakout games, randles double/doubles.... everything people seem to remember all equated to the worst season in history.
But that bias/faith/frustration is why our team is still full of rookies, luke ain't gettin fired and jeanie/magic deserve to get paaaaiiiiidddddd $$. Its all just different flavors of kool-aid until we have a contending roster.
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youcantguardme
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | Give Deng enough minutes to hopefully convince another team to take him off our hands. |
Based on that logic, I hope Randle gets enough minutes for the same result. Maybe other teams haven't yet figured how overrated he really is. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | ^Nope, you just made up roles for them that you think they have, when there isn't evidence that's what they are limited to what-so-ever, nor how many minutes they should expect to play per game. |
Right, that's why he's totally wiped Randle's pet play from a year ago and restricted his ball handing in transition... not to limit him.
As far as the other players (as if this has anything to do with them), Luke almost verbatim said that was Brook's role during a live game interview on Friday. He's also said JC winning sixth man of the year is "fair goal for him", and that they expect Ingram to be a playmaker. |
Actually Luke limited all of the bigs ball handling in transition and he said that’s only temporary to get them used to running with Zo. |
Why isn't he running the DHO's and kickbacks in the halfcourt then? It's not just in transition. That was his bread and butter move every time he was faced with a wide open jumpshot last season. |
Mainly because they don't have hardly any of their offense installed and have only been running their delay series this preseason. Also, DLO & Swaggy P aren't here anymore and those were the main guys they ran it with |
Not really, KCP was statistically just as good as a shooter as Russell was last season. He also would even run it with Clarkson. The reason, I suspect, they've wiped it from the playbook (clearly he doesn't need to be taught how to do it) is because it's totally antithetical to ball movement or this "Lonzo effect" they're trying to recreate. You either shoot it or pass.
Last edited by greenfrog on Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:26 am; edited 3 times in total |
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22
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | ^Nope, you just made up roles for them that you think they have, when there isn't evidence that's what they are limited to what-so-ever, nor how many minutes they should expect to play per game. |
Right, that's why he's totally wiped Randle's pet play from a year ago and restricted his ball handing in transition... not to limit him.
As far as the other players (as if this has anything to do with them), Luke almost verbatim said that was Brook's role during a live game interview on Friday. He's also said JC winning sixth man of the year is "fair goal for him", and that they expect Ingram to be a playmaker. |
Actually Luke limited all of the bigs ball handling in transition and he said that’s only temporary to get them used to running with Zo. |
Why isn't he running the DHO's and kickbacks in the halfcourt then? It's not just in transition. That was his bread and butter move every time he was faced with a wide open jumpshot last season. |
Mainly because they don't have hardly any of their offense installed and have only been running their delay series this preseason. Also, DLO & Swaggy P aren't here anymore and those were the main guys they ran it with |
Not really, KCP was statistically just as good as a shooter as Russell was last season. He also even would run it with Clarkson. The reason, I suspect, they've wiped it from the playbook (clearly he doesn't need to be taught how to do it) is because it's totally antithetical to ball movement or this "Lonzo effect" they're trying to recreate. You either shoot it or pass. |
Has nothing to do with KCP being statisically just as a good shooter as Russell. They way KCP and Russell score are completely different. Luke is simplifying the O in the hope of making things less restrictive for Zo. So it has little to do with Julius, and there's no guarantee it's wiped from playbook. It may just be something they don't want to do for now. Just like they dont want the bigs pushing the ball after a rebound for now, like Luke said. We'll have to see what they're running by the end of the year |
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Someone's gonna have to scour through prior pages to find the Official Deng thread so it can be bumped. It's probably 25 to 35 pages deep by this point.
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KG24
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Starting 5 Game1:
PF Randle
C Lopez
SF Kuzma
SG Ingram
PG Ball
There you have it. done! |
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Wilkes52
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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I think the starting lineups are of little importance, since the primary goal of the season is one of discovery: identify who plays best with whom and who doesn't fit into the mid-term plan for the roster. Giving the guys enough time with each other in various combinations could easily take most of the season for Luke & Co. I anticipate seeing a couple dozen starting lineups used.
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| KG24 wrote: | Starting 5 Game1:
PF Randle
C Lopez
SF Kuzma
SG Ingram
PG Ball
There you have it. done! |
Asking Kuzma to guard NBA SFs is archipelago for disaster, IMO. He'll be fine guarding Galinari, but the vast majority of typical NBA SFs and small ball SFs will give him a ton of trouble -- maybe even hurt his confidence.
Kuzma should only be playing PF unless there is an unusual matchup. |
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