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MJST
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 Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | No such thing as too many defense. |
Tell that to the Grizzlies that never won anything.
Bet you they wish they had more scorers when they gave the Warriors trouble till the Warriors realized Tony Allen couldn't shoot.
Here's the thing.
Our starting lineup if Luke made it
Lonzo Ball
KCP
Brandon Ingram
Larry Nance Jr.
Brook Lopez
Is handicapping the team in the worst possible way. Why?
Look at that lineup, how many guys that can get their own shot consistently against NBA competition is in it?
Brook Lopez and....
Nobody else.
Lonzo can't get his own shot against NBA competition yet and his jumper is shaky and not there yet. KCP is not the guy you want handling the ball in your offense to "make stuff happen" and his shot is terrible everywhere but the three point line, where his best year he shot 35% .
Brandon Ingram showed this pre-season that you DON'T want him in the role of iso guy going for their own shot, so he's out of the question, and his jumper still needs work as well outside of spot ups
Larry Nance Jr. is invisible on offense in the half court. He adds nothing to the table on that end, and defensively he can't switch onto guards as he lacks the lateral quickness to do so.
So you got Lopez. Lopez is the only guy that can consistently make offense happen in the half court. Which means 9 out of 10 plays you're dumping it down to him and hoping he can score in any situation where we aren't in the half court.
Or you're throwing it out to Lonzo whose jump shot isn't there yet, or to KCP whose jumpshot at best was 35% from three, or to Ingram whose jump shot isn't there yet, or to Nance who doesn't even want to shoot and can't make offense happen off the dribble if he doesn't shoot, let alone his jump shot not being there yet.
So Lopez essentially is our best three point shooter, and ONLY go-to option in the starting lineup.
yeah if Luke does that it'd be one of the dumbest moves he's made as a coach and that is saying something. He's setting us up to get blown out from the get go, so when he puts guys in that actually CAN get their own shot IF they get us back into the game he can play it off like "Well I like the bench bringing a spark." No Luke... the bench wouldn't HAVE to give us such a spark if your bull[expletive] lineup weren't designed to put us behind the 8 ball from the get go.
Unless Luke SERIOUSLY thinks our team is really capable of holding another team's starters to 40 points a half ...
Luke.. we barely won against the 3rd string of the freaking Clippers.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | No such thing as too many defense. |
No, but there are things such as poor defense and poor scoring. If those would be an issue we will find out against the Clippers.
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Nash Vegas
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| matrixskillz wrote: | | Start Kuzma. Problem solved |
^
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defense
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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I'm always amazed at how you guys can predict the future
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AFireInside619
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | socalsp3 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | socalsp3 wrote: | | al242 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | al242 wrote: | | I really question what Larry Nance brings to the starting lineup.....he is marginally a better rim protector than Randle, but Randle smokes him when it comes to perimeter defense. Randle is also a much better offensive threat, Luke is trying to get canned, its the only thing I can think of. |
Apparently not getting in Lopez’s way is a positive trait. |
Laker fans are fickle, you thought we were quick to turn on Ingram after 2 preseason games, if Luke continues his nonsense, this will be his last year as the Lakers head coach. Heck, if he makes it to next year, he will be our longest tenured coach since Phil. |
I think if they have a terrible year, get no FA, and have another terrible year next year. Then they will be forced to make a change. |
The problem is that the change should be in the FO. Luke has been given crap to work with. |
Luke hasn't done anything to elevate the team. In fact he's done the opposite. Even if they got him better players I doubt he could do anything with them. If they have a terrible year I don't see any FA wanting to come to play for Luke. |
I don’t see any FA wanting to come play with a lottery bound, dysfunctional organization. There are star players who will give Luke a thumbs up if FAs ask. |
Yes, because it was this front office who signed MozDeng, or gave that Kobe that ridiculous legacy contract instead of making room for younger FA. It was this front office who let Gasol & Howard walk for nothing. If was this front office who put up a #StayD12 billboard. It was this front office who release the info on the CP3 trade too early and didn't follow up with a counter offer after it fell apart. |
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defense
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Let's take a look at positions compared to last season
Lonzo-Russell, who knows
Kcp-Young, I think last season young was better but I'm sure some will disagree
Deng-Ingram, Deng as bad as he was has been better
Randle-Nance, I think Nance has been better but lots disagree
Moz-Lopez, hands down Lopez is better
We lost 2 good three point shooters in Lou and Young but might have gained 3 in Lopez, Ball and Kuzma. Who knows how that will turn out. With some young guys getting another year and more talent in general on the team we could surprise some people. I do think last season we were offense heavy which is probably why we were 23 in offensive efficiency and 30 in defense. A more balanced team makes for a better team me thinks. |
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Megaton
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Goldenwest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Bench = too much Scorers? / Starters = too much Defenders? |
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| LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | | splashmtn wrote: | | Nashlight wrote: | Based on what Luke's been saying, the starting line up will be:
Ball
KCP
Ingram
Nance
Lopez
The only real scorers on this team are basically Lopez and to a more unproven effect, Ingram, though very inconsistent. KCP and Nance (or Deng) are there for defense, and Ball doesn't really like to score as much as he wants to feed everyone else as the facilitator.
Then you have the bench:
Ennis
Clarkson
Kuzma
Randle
Zubac
The bench has got 3 legit go to scorers in JC, Randle, and Kuz. And aside from Zublocka, no one is really known for their defense.
Starters seem more built on defense, while the bench will be built on more scoring, but shouldn't we get a balance for both the starters and bench? Maybe swap a scorer from the bench to the starters, and a defender from the starters to the bench? Otherwise the starters will always have issues scoring and the bench will always have issues defending. It's almost one extreme over the other. |
kuzma is a pretty darn good man defender as long as the guy he's guarding isnt super strong/big and knows how to throw his weight around. same for randle. randle and kuzma have quick lateral movement for guys their height. so they can cut off a regular drive by another faceup PF. Can kuuz hang with quick SF's? I dont know.
But I still get your point.
As of right now. My starting Lineup would have to be
pg- ball
Sg-KCP
SF-Kuz
PF-Randle
C- Lopez
---
Bench
pg- Ennis/Caruso
Sg- JC
Sf- BI
PF-Larry
C-ZuBlocka
The problem with the bench is that only JC can be seen as a real scorers scorer. BI is aggressive like a scorer but his skills have not caught up with his mentally..>YET.
Here's the thing on Larry nance jr. he can't start because he's too passive on offense. Its not that he can't score more. its that he wont. You cant have him and Ball in the game together not taking open looks passing it off to others. unless the other 3 are PG13, LBJ and some other stud scorer.
only one super passive guy per Team(starters/bench) Otherwise you will easily run into offensive issues.
The reason you have no choice but to start randle is because he's far and away our best rebounder. Lopez has never been known as a boards big.
BI doesnt rebound nearly enough(he should with his length) to compensate for Randle's absence in the starting lineup. So even if we play great defense. we will not finish that task by getting the board. we will allow a ton of offensive boards, you watch. |
Like your breakdown...  |
Same here, except i would definitely go with Caruso as the backup. Ennis will just be looking for his own shot with the second unit. Caruso will do a much better job of getting the ball to the open man.
Also, i would consider switching Randle to the 3 and putting Deng at the starting 4. Kuz should come off the bench. |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| al242 wrote: | | I really question what Larry Nance brings to the starting lineup.....he is marginally a better rim protector than Randle, but Randle smokes him when it comes to perimeter defense. Randle is also a much better offensive threat, Luke is trying to get canned, its the only thing I can think of. |
Luke is not a good coach.
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manlisten
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not really sure Nance is a better rim protector than Randle anymore. Randle's come a long way in that department, I was really impressed by how many shots he denied at the rim. In the same vein Nance has stepped it up as a rebounder but I think Randle still has him beat there. One thing though is that Nance mentioned that he would open up his game and we'd see more of his arsenal but he's just as passive as ever.
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al242
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | | some are underestimating Luke I think... |
Im one of them, my patience is running thin with him and his illogical rotations and lineups. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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Luke's proven nothing as a coach outside of what the Warriors were able to do for him. Which had nothing to do with any culture Luke brought or built on his own, nor any offense Luke brought or built on his own, nor any defense Luke brought or built on his own.
So any and everything said about him as a coach is what he's built in the past year and a half, he literally has nothing else to go on as an actual coach.
So he has given us what he is. Not much to underestimate.
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King Randle
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:48 am Post subject: |
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I was fortunate enough to attend Laker practice yesterday 11:00 - 1:00, because my good friend works for Canon and they invited him and 3 guests. Got to view the practice from an a second level balcony so it was a great view. The guys worked hard. Lonzo got off to a slow start which was expected, ill advised passes, but he picked it up as the practice progressed. IMO he has to remain aggressive and really push the ball. The stand out for me was Corey Brewer this guy brings energy all the time despite being 31 years old. He was running the floor and really playing D on anyone he was guarding.
Clarkson, KCP, Kuzma, Lopez and at times BI played well. BI continues to be aggressive which is good until he forces the issue. The resot of the gusy were mediocre to me. Randle sat out due to his ribs and hart was actually having a good practice until his injury.
KCP is a no go for the opener and if Randle doesn't play either it's going to be tough to beat the Clippers IMO. |
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manlisten
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:51 am Post subject: |
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To me it seems like Luke is trying to tread water with the starters and then take advantage of other benches with his lineups. I'm one who thinks there's better balance with either Randle or Kuzma instead of Nance starting but we'll see how it goes.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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Dilla_
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:22 am Post subject: |
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Luke likes keeping units together which I think he needs to change this season and break up units more often.
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:45 am Post subject: |
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A great bench needs two guys who can drop twenty on you if you don't take them serious.
Walton has started Nance because they shelved Deng in preseason and, much more importantly, Nance is the best fit next to Lopez.
Walton is building around Lopez. He'll soon find out though that he really needs to (defensively and offensively) build around Ball -- that means less Lopez and Nance and more Deng and Hart. |
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Mamba Mentality
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| Let's wait and see. I like the idea of Nance and Lonzo in the open court. KCP and Ingram can run. Lopez can shoot the outside shot which can open up a lot of easy baskets for Nance on the inside. We are the new lob city. We should be able to do well with the bench matchups because of this. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | socalsp3 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | socalsp3 wrote: | | al242 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | al242 wrote: | | I really question what Larry Nance brings to the starting lineup.....he is marginally a better rim protector than Randle, but Randle smokes him when it comes to perimeter defense. Randle is also a much better offensive threat, Luke is trying to get canned, its the only thing I can think of. |
Apparently not getting in Lopez’s way is a positive trait. |
Laker fans are fickle, you thought we were quick to turn on Ingram after 2 preseason games, if Luke continues his nonsense, this will be his last year as the Lakers head coach. Heck, if he makes it to next year, he will be our longest tenured coach since Phil. |
I think if they have a terrible year, get no FA, and have another terrible year next year. Then they will be forced to make a change. |
The problem is that the change should be in the FO. Luke has been given crap to work with. |
Luke hasn't done anything to elevate the team. In fact he's done the opposite. Even if they got him better players I doubt he could do anything with them. If they have a terrible year I don't see any FA wanting to come to play for Luke. |
I don’t see any FA wanting to come play with a lottery bound, dysfunctional organization. There are star players who will give Luke a thumbs up if FAs ask. |
Yes, because it was this front office who signed MozDeng, or gave that Kobe that ridiculous legacy contract instead of making room for younger FA. It was this front office who let Gasol & Howard walk for nothing. If was this front office who put up a #StayD12 billboard. It was this front office who release the info on the CP3 trade too early and didn't follow up with a counter offer after it fell apart. |
Still living in the past. Take a step into the present. But you do realize that the same person is in charge?
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The Lebrons
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | No such thing as too many defense. |
Tell that to the Grizzlies that never won anything.
Bet you they wish they had more scorers when they gave the Warriors trouble till the Warriors realized Tony Allen couldn't shoot.
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So your argument that you can have too many defenders is that the Grizzlies lost to the Warriors, who will arguably go down as the greatest team in NBA history. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Luke's proven nothing as a coach outside of what the Warriors were able to do for him. Which had nothing to do with any culture Luke brought or built on his own, nor any offense Luke brought or built on his own, nor any defense Luke brought or built on his own.
So any and everything said about him as a coach is what he's built in the past year and a half, he literally has nothing else to go on as an actual coach.
So he has given us what he is. Not much to underestimate. |
Yes, he hasn’t turned lottery talent into contenders. Fans are so unrealistic, put the blame at the top, then work down to the coach. We have 30 win talent, any discussion about the coaching staff goes from there.
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Lucky_Shot
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:33 am Post subject: |
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I like what Luke brings to this team. My lineup for now would look like:
Ball Kcp Kuz Nance Lopez
Alex Hart Ingram Randle Bogut |
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King Randle
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Based on what I saw at practice:
Nance
Ingram
Lopez
KCP
Ball
Randle
Kuzma
Zubac/Bogut
Clarkson
Ennis
Need to find minutes for Brewer one way or another. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | Based on what I saw at practice:
Nance
Ingram
Lopez
KCP
Ball
Randle
Kuzma
Zubac/Bogut
Clarkson
Ennis
Need to find minutes for Brewer one way or another. |
Not that it's definitive, but it was the lineup of the last 2 preseason games.
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Don Draper
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Luke's proven nothing as a coach outside of what the Warriors were able to do for him. Which had nothing to do with any culture Luke brought or built on his own, nor any offense Luke brought or built on his own, nor any defense Luke brought or built on his own.
So any and everything said about him as a coach is what he's built in the past year and a half, he literally has nothing else to go on as an actual coach.
So he has given us what he is. Not much to underestimate. |
Yes, he hasn’t turned lottery talent into contenders. Fans are so unrealistic, put the blame at the top, then work down to the coach. We have 30 win talent, any discussion about the coaching staff goes from there. |
Perhaps that's the case, but IMO the coaching staff has a far bigger impact than you realize. A coach's job is to lay the foundation for a system that eventually brings the team to greatness.
To put this into stark example: Byron Scott could coach a team like ours with the amount of talent we currently have to around 20-30 games, but do you trust him to make improvements over time and to establish a worthwhile system? Whereas a guy like Brad Stevens would be getting the most out of everyone and laying the foundation for when our young guys fully reach their potential. Stevens might technically lose as many games as Scott (though I doubt it), but our guys would be learning so much more from those games. Whereas Scott might win 30 games this year and 30 games next year, Stevens would win 30 games this year and 40 games next year.
This is why so many are concerned that Luke has trouble with the basics of the coaching job. If he can't get his rotations right, how are his sets? How does he direct his assistants? How is he developing people? How much time does he put in? How much thought? He really needs to show us he's putting in some effort this year. He doesn't have to be Stevens, but he HAS to start showing that he's putting more thought into this team than us forum posters. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:05 am Post subject: |
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I have been coaching for over 15 years so I don’t need a primer on the art. I was a real good coach when I had talent and not so good when I didn’t. If you think you spend more time thinking about the team than Luke does then that is one mighty Superman complex.
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