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adkindo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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Location: Dirty South
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 Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | I have been coaching for over 15 years so I don’t need a primer on the art. I was a real good coach when I had talent and not so good when I didn’t. If you think you spend more time thinking about the team than Luke does then that is one mighty Superman complex. |
when my daughter was very young, I coached her YMCA soccer team. The only thing I really knew about soccer was your supposed to kick the ball in the net. I grew up deep in Appalachia, and there was not youth soccer or even high school soccer at the time. Anyway, our team had this one little dude that was "light years" better than anyone else in the league. My team went undefeated....and not a single match was close! 
So I must have been COY if they had that award. Results are results....scoreboard don't lie! |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| How has this not been merged into the P&M/venting thread? |
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Don Draper
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 28460
Location: LA --> Bay Area
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | I have been coaching for over 15 years so I don’t need a primer on the art. I was a real good coach when I had talent and not so good when I didn’t. If you think you spend more time thinking about the team than Luke does then that is one mighty Superman complex. |
Misreading.
All I'm saying is that, ostensibly, there's supposed to be a good reason why these people make millions of dollars. And it's not to bungle rotations. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Don Draper wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | I have been coaching for over 15 years so I don’t need a primer on the art. I was a real good coach when I had talent and not so good when I didn’t. If you think you spend more time thinking about the team than Luke does then that is one mighty Superman complex. |
Misreading.
All I'm saying is that, ostensibly, there's supposed to be a good reason why these people make millions of dollars. And it's not to bungle rotations. |
If Luke rolled out the rotation that you think is ideal, the team still won't win many games, and many fans would complain he bungled the rotation.
That's simply a function of fans being fans and our team being talent-deficiency.
I don't know if Luke is a good coach yet, just as I don't know how Ball, Ingram and Kuz are going to pan out. The only thing I'm sure of it's going to be a long season, and LG is going to meltdown many, many times. |
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Don Draper
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 28460
Location: LA --> Bay Area
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | I have been coaching for over 15 years so I don’t need a primer on the art. I was a real good coach when I had talent and not so good when I didn’t. If you think you spend more time thinking about the team than Luke does then that is one mighty Superman complex. |
Misreading.
All I'm saying is that, ostensibly, there's supposed to be a good reason why these people make millions of dollars. And it's not to bungle rotations. |
If Luke rolled out the rotation that you think is ideal, the team still won't win many games, and many fans would complain he bungled the rotation.
That's simply a function of fans being fans and our team being talent-deficiency.
I don't know if Luke is a good coach yet, just as I don't know how Ball, Ingram and Kuz are going to pan out. The only thing I'm sure of it's going to be a long season, and LG is going to meltdown many, many times. |
Maybe so. In my mind you can lose and grow at the same time. I can handle losing if we're going somewhere. Poor rotations, however, are but one indicator that our losses aren't building towards something better in the future. I don't really care what fans complain about if Luke implements a rotation that compliments his offensive system (which is?) and staggers minutes based on performance, not this 5 guys in, 5 guys out strategy he's been sticking to.
I do agree with you that there will be meltdowns. And that this will be a long season. |
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | I have been coaching for over 15 years so I don’t need a primer on the art. I was a real good coach when I had talent and not so good when I didn’t. If you think you spend more time thinking about the team than Luke does then that is one mighty Superman complex. |
either you're a good coach, an average coach, or a bad coach.
You can't be good with talent and bad without it. If thats the case, you're average at best.
Anyone can be a decent coach winning games with talent. Now can you get over the hump and win it all with talent? maybe maybe not(del harris vs phil...but phil also inherited guys that were a year older and less nonsense guys(no more eddie jones getting abused by Jr rider in the playoffs, no more elden campbell getting killed by karl malone in the playoffs, no more pouty 1,2,3 cancun by nick the quick. In comes Glen Rice a money shooter to compliment shaq and kobe.
But with one man(kobe), LO and a bunch of clowns they almost beat the suns in the playoffs. under phil. that lets you know phil is a good coach at worse. sure he had supernova kobe. but still. I've seen other super stars go nuts like that and still miss the offs or get swept with ease. If for nothing else, phil knew how to make darn sure the rest of the clown team we had got out of kobe's and LO's way.
Now back to luke. is luke a good coach? we dont know yet. If we knew our team was say a 40 win team. yet luke only could squeeze out 20 games. then luke is a bad coach. even with lesser talent. You have to find a way if the talent is good enough to be semi decent. Their record should reflect semi decent. if the talent just isnt there in comparison to the rest of the nba. Then it is what it is. You will not be able to tell if the coach is good or bad. You can tell if the players like him or not which could mean a lot or nothing at all. which brings into question B.scott. was he really a horrible coach? No. Was he horrible for these kids? No. was he not the best fit for these kids? Yes, B.scott was not the best fit for this group of young guys.
But with all of what Bscott, preached and was upset about. Luke has not had anymore success in those areas. we dont play any better defense, and our offense isnt any better. yet the guys are older and should be more skilled. But the nba is growing up at the same time. So that plays a part as well.
Luke SEEMS like a good coach for a young team. But again, we're not sure if thats actually the case. |
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youcantguardme
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Joined: 10 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, in pre-season the starters came nowhere near playing too much defense. If you believe all that is reported, you know the statements that all we work on is defense, then it is absolute failure. |
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socalsp3
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Joined: 07 Jul 2016
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | I have been coaching for over 15 years so I don’t need a primer on the art. I was a real good coach when I had talent and not so good when I didn’t. If you think you spend more time thinking about the team than Luke does then that is one mighty Superman complex. |
either you're a good coach, an average coach, or a bad coach.
You can't be good with talent and bad without it. If thats the case, you're average at best.
Anyone can be a decent coach winning games with talent. Now can you get over the hump and win it all with talent? maybe maybe not(del harris vs phil...but phil also inherited guys that were a year older and less nonsense guys(no more eddie jones getting abused by Jr rider in the playoffs, no more elden campbell getting killed by karl malone in the playoffs, no more pouty 1,2,3 cancun by nick the quick. In comes Glen Rice a money shooter to compliment shaq and kobe.
But with one man(kobe), LO and a bunch of clowns they almost beat the suns in the playoffs. under phil. that lets you know phil is a good coach at worse. sure he had supernova kobe. but still. I've seen other super stars go nuts like that and still miss the offs or get swept with ease. If for nothing else, phil knew how to make darn sure the rest of the clown team we had got out of kobe's and LO's way.
Now back to luke. is luke a good coach? we dont know yet. If we knew our team was say a 40 win team. yet luke only could squeeze out 20 games. then luke is a bad coach. even with lesser talent. You have to find a way if the talent is good enough to be semi decent. Their record should reflect semi decent. if the talent just isnt there in comparison to the rest of the nba. Then it is what it is. You will not be able to tell if the coach is good or bad. You can tell if the players like him or not which could mean a lot or nothing at all. which brings into question B.scott. was he really a horrible coach? No. Was he horrible for these kids? No. was he not the best fit for these kids? Yes, B.scott was not the best fit for this group of young guys.
But with all of what Bscott, preached and was upset about. Luke has not had anymore success in those areas. we dont play any better defense, and our offense isnt any better. yet the guys are older and should be more skilled. But the nba is growing up at the same time. So that plays a part as well.
Luke SEEMS like a good coach for a young team. But again, we're not sure if thats actually the case. |
We can see bad lineups being put out there time and time again over better line up options and we wonder why they keep failing. |
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Nash Vegas
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Joined: 01 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Our starters cannot score.
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Lonzo-Lite
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Joined: 17 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Nash Vegas wrote: | | Our starters cannot score. |
This will be a recurring problem with this current starting line up.
For Luke to start Deng over Randle or Kuzma just shows that he's putting so much emphasis on defense.
But this is also wasting Lonzo's talent since none of the guys he passes to can make a shot or kills any game flow when his teammates end up turning the possession into an isolation play.
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Scoffs
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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We have one decent shooter in the starting line-up in Lopez; that's the biggest problem on the offensive end. Hopefully, the experiment with Deng is over and Brandon starts hitting some shots.
Starting Caruso, Ennis, or Kuzma with Ball would really help because all three are better shooters and passers than Deng. |
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Nash Vegas
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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I hate the JC, Randle, Kuzma line-up. Kuzma is wasted just doing nothing but setting screens for JC and Randle to shoot.
Billy Mac even commented on live TV when the crowd started booing 9 mins in the 2nd quarter that Kuzma hasn't even touched the ball.
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Last edited by Nash Vegas on Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:18 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Practice
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Joined: 14 Apr 2015
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| This is probably the worst roster in Lakers history. |
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blackmamba08
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Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 2608
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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1st unit: Lonzo/KCP/Ingram/Kuzma/Lopez
2nd unit:JC/Hart/Brewer/Randle/Bogut
Walton need to use these ten players.
JC Randle and Kuzma cannot be on the court at the same time ever.
Lonzo need to play with Kuzma and Lopez to have shooting abilities.
Hart Brewer and Bogut for defensive purpose in 2nd unit with JC and Randle scoring. |
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Chronicle
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Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:07 am Post subject: |
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^What bout nance
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matigol
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Joined: 18 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| blackmamba08 wrote: | 1st unit: Lonzo/KCP/Ingram/Kuzma/Lopez
2nd unit:JC/Hart/Brewer/Randle/Bogut
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2nd needs to be:
JC/Hart/Brewer/Nance/Randle
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blackmamba08
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Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | ^What bout nance |
We cant play all our players. Sorry but rotation with 11-12 guys is beyond stupid IMO. Luke has to make some decisions. |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23785
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| Eindhoven wrote: | | If those are the line ups, I'm afraid he will make the same mistake as last year: two units playing two different systems and hockey subs all the time. |
I’m seeing the same things again which is a red flag imo. The only difference is Jordan Clarkson is now in the Lou Williams please save us role. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:35 am Post subject: |
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I feel that the starting lineup tries to get Ingram going (which for 2 of 3 games he hasn't) or force feeding Brook. However, KCP was just inserted back to the starting lineup so we need a bigger sample size.
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PHILosophize
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Joined: 05 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:48 am Post subject: |
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We do need a bigger sample size, but I also would not be opposed to making the move to start Kooz in place of Nance. I'm also in favor of benching Ingram, but I know that's not going to happen so I won't pretend it can.
Lonzo
KCP
Kooz
Ingram
Lopez
Players that should not see the light of day: Caruso, Deng, Ennis. Depending on the team we are playing, I think that going small for our bench lineup is the way to go:
JC
Hart
Brewer
Nance
Julius
Something like that, or staggering so that we get that lineup that did well yesterday. Basically, assuming they continue to play hard like they did yesterday, everyone in that small-ball lineup from yesterday deserves more burn (especially JC and Julius) and guys like Nance/Bogut/Lopez should not play as much.
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2019
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| Practice wrote: | | This is probably the worst roster in Lakers history. |
not sure it's the worst but it is is the most devoid of scoring I've ever seen.. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| blackmamba08 wrote: | 1st unit: Lonzo/KCP/Ingram/Kuzma/Lopez
2nd unit:JC/Hart/Brewer/Randle/Bogut
Walton need to use these ten players.
JC Randle and Kuzma cannot be on the court at the same time ever.
Lonzo need to play with Kuzma and Lopez to have shooting abilities.
Hart Brewer and Bogut for defensive purpose in 2nd unit with JC and Randle scoring. |
JC, Randle and Kuzma almost won the game last night, what are you talking about?
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Nash Vegas
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Posts: 7239
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:41 am Post subject: |
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OP should change the thread title to say that Starters can't defend either.
Luke likes to run plays to get Ingram going in the 1st quarter, but if Ingram can't get it going, Lakers will start off slow and have to play catch up for the rest of the game. And it has been the bench that does all the catching up.
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70sdude
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:57 am Post subject: |
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What I see in these early season lineups and rotations is legit experimentation: with chemistry, of exposure of players to each other and to various offenses. Learning about one's players takes time, especially when so many high potential guys are all so young and (dare I say) incomplete at the same time.
The season will hopefully display a ten win increase over last, but the bigger priorities are far bigger. The biggest priorities are player development (both as individuals and in combination), discovery of the best player chemistries, and the determination of comparative player value in terms of retention going forward. |
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adkindo
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Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Nash Vegas wrote: | I hate the JC, Randle, Kuzma line-up. Kuzma is wasted just doing nothing but setting screens for JC and Randle to shoot.
Billy Mac even commented on live TV when the crowd started booing 9 mins in the 2nd quarter that Kuzma hasn't even touched the ball. |
your referencing the most successful lineup that we have used this season? 
http://stats.nba.com/team/1610612747/lineups-traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=1 |
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