Official MAGINKA Front Office Thread (Ignored coaching staff's pleas to re-sign Brook Lopez and Randle pg. 145)
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:18 am    Post subject:

jg77 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
jg77 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I still will hold true to my pledge (after my emotions were reined in after the DLO trade) to reserve full judgment until after this summer FA. If he gets that 2nd max, keeps the core, we will be in great shape.


If the 2nd max ends up being Kyrie or around that level then it's a failure to me.


Why? How can you prejudge that 2nd max level player that early without seeing how they fit with LBJ/Yutes?


LBJ, Kyrie and Love were defeated 4-1 by the Warriors. A 4 year older LeBron with Kyrie is going to do what? Even if the Warriors lose KD...their 73 win team is still intact. And Kyrie is injury prone. Yikes.

Only KD and KL move the needle and I would be alright with Klay since he fits with anything you're trying to do.


Again. You are prejudging without knowing whether these things come true.

I think a KD-less Warriors are very beatable.

It would be LBJ/Kyrie/YUTES vs. a very worn down Warriors team without KD. I would like our odds in that matchup.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:23 am    Post subject:

jg77 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
jg77 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I still will hold true to my pledge (after my emotions were reined in after the DLO trade) to reserve full judgment until after this summer FA. If he gets that 2nd max, keeps the core, we will be in great shape.


If the 2nd max ends up being Kyrie or around that level then it's a failure to me.


Why? How can you prejudge that 2nd max level player that early without seeing how they fit with LBJ/Yutes?


LBJ, Kyrie and Love were defeated 4-1 by the Warriors. A 4 year older LeBron with Kyrie is going to do what? Even if the Warriors lose KD...their 73 win team is still intact. And Kyrie is injury prone. Yikes.

Only KD and KL move the needle and I would be alright with Klay since he fits with anything you're trying to do.


I think BI,Kuz, Ball, Hart >>>> Love and the rest of the Cleveland crew. If we add any of those players listed by Yinoma, we will be set and be LEGITIMATE title contenders.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:25 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
jg77 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
jg77 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I still will hold true to my pledge (after my emotions were reined in after the DLO trade) to reserve full judgment until after this summer FA. If he gets that 2nd max, keeps the core, we will be in great shape.


If the 2nd max ends up being Kyrie or around that level then it's a failure to me.


Why? How can you prejudge that 2nd max level player that early without seeing how they fit with LBJ/Yutes?


LBJ, Kyrie and Love were defeated 4-1 by the Warriors. A 4 year older LeBron with Kyrie is going to do what? Even if the Warriors lose KD...their 73 win team is still intact. And Kyrie is injury prone. Yikes.

Only KD and KL move the needle and I would be alright with Klay since he fits with anything you're trying to do.


Again. You are prejudging without knowing whether these things come true.

I think a KD-less Warriors are very beatable.

It would be LBJ/Kyrie/YUTES vs. a very worn down Warriors team without KD. I would like our odds in that matchup.


Just not interested in pairing an injury-riddled Kyrie with an old LeBron. With Lonzo being injury prone it's a double no for me. I'd actually prefer Kemba to Kyrie.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:28 am    Post subject:

jg77 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
jg77 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
jg77 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I still will hold true to my pledge (after my emotions were reined in after the DLO trade) to reserve full judgment until after this summer FA. If he gets that 2nd max, keeps the core, we will be in great shape.


If the 2nd max ends up being Kyrie or around that level then it's a failure to me.


Why? How can you prejudge that 2nd max level player that early without seeing how they fit with LBJ/Yutes?


LBJ, Kyrie and Love were defeated 4-1 by the Warriors. A 4 year older LeBron with Kyrie is going to do what? Even if the Warriors lose KD...their 73 win team is still intact. And Kyrie is injury prone. Yikes.

Only KD and KL move the needle and I would be alright with Klay since he fits with anything you're trying to do.


Again. You are prejudging without knowing whether these things come true.

I think a KD-less Warriors are very beatable.

It would be LBJ/Kyrie/YUTES vs. a very worn down Warriors team without KD. I would like our odds in that matchup.


Just not interested in pairing an injury-riddled Kyrie with an old LeBron. With Lonzo being injury prone it's a double no for me. I'd actually prefer Kemba to Kyrie.


IMO, KD has kept together a ship that was starting to take on some water.

Steph is always a major ankle injury away (major history of that).

Klay/Dray are not dynamic enough to prevail in a series.

It's interesting how you forecast the absolute doom/gloom for a LBJ/Kyrie (or other max FA) team but assume that the Warriors minus KD will be healthy and not worn down by playing in the Finals for nearly the past half decade.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:34 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
jg77 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
jg77 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
jg77 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I still will hold true to my pledge (after my emotions were reined in after the DLO trade) to reserve full judgment until after this summer FA. If he gets that 2nd max, keeps the core, we will be in great shape.


If the 2nd max ends up being Kyrie or around that level then it's a failure to me.


Why? How can you prejudge that 2nd max level player that early without seeing how they fit with LBJ/Yutes?


LBJ, Kyrie and Love were defeated 4-1 by the Warriors. A 4 year older LeBron with Kyrie is going to do what? Even if the Warriors lose KD...their 73 win team is still intact. And Kyrie is injury prone. Yikes.

Only KD and KL move the needle and I would be alright with Klay since he fits with anything you're trying to do.


Again. You are prejudging without knowing whether these things come true.

I think a KD-less Warriors are very beatable.

It would be LBJ/Kyrie/YUTES vs. a very worn down Warriors team without KD. I would like our odds in that matchup.


Just not interested in pairing an injury-riddled Kyrie with an old LeBron. With Lonzo being injury prone it's a double no for me. I'd actually prefer Kemba to Kyrie.


IMO, KD has kept together a ship that was starting to take on some water.

Steph is always a major ankle injury away (major history of that).

Klay/Dray are not dynamic enough to prevail in a series.

It's interesting how you forecast the absolute doom/gloom for a LBJ/Kyrie (or other max FA) team but assume that the Warriors minus KD will be healthy and not worn down by playing in the Finals for nearly the past half decade.


Fair. Warriors aren't the only team to worry about though. Agree to disagree. You have a lot of faith in LeBron and I just don't at his current age. I don't even think he's been a top 5 player this year. But if he goes on a post season run then I'll change my opinion.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:36 am    Post subject:

Quote:


Fair. Warriors aren't the only team to worry about though. Agree to disagree. You have a lot of faith in LeBron and I just don't at his current age. I don't even think he's been a top 5 player this year. But if he goes on a post season run then I'll change my opinion.


But it's:

1. max FA (to carry more of the load off of LBJ);
2. another year of experience for the YUTES (or maybe even AD trade/other trades).

Folks act as if LBJ will be going up against everyone by himself.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:41 am    Post subject:

jg77 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I still will hold true to my pledge (after my emotions were reined in after the DLO trade) to reserve full judgment until after this summer FA. If he gets that 2nd max, keeps the core, we will be in great shape.


If the 2nd max ends up being Kyrie or around that level then it's a failure to me.

I disagree. re: AD. If Kyrie comes to LA this summer, what incentive does Ainge have to trade the farm for AD? And why would AD even think about staying in Boston (he won't) with no Kyrie - and no Tatum - beyond one year?

Kyrie is the key here. If he's not in Boston, Ainge wouldn't trump our package for AD.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:42 am    Post subject:

I don't see Kyrie coming to rejoin LBJ, but if he did, it wouldn't surprise me to see AD traded for the YUTES to have a LBJ/AD/Kyrie trio.

Heck, even if we got KL or Jimmy I could see that (or any 7-9 year max FA).
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:12 am    Post subject:

jg77 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I still will hold true to my pledge (after my emotions were reined in after the DLO trade) to reserve full judgment until after this summer FA. If he gets that 2nd max, keeps the core, we will be in great shape.


If the 2nd max ends up being Kyrie or around that level then it's a failure to me.


That would be disappointing. However, Magic could still pull it off by constructing the rest of the roster effectively. If the second free agent is not a genuine superstar (Durant or Kawhi), the story isn’t over. Conversely, even if the second free agent is a genuine superstar, Magic can still fail if the rest of the roster is inadequate.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:17 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
jg77 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I still will hold true to my pledge (after my emotions were reined in after the DLO trade) to reserve full judgment until after this summer FA. If he gets that 2nd max, keeps the core, we will be in great shape.


If the 2nd max ends up being Kyrie or around that level then it's a failure to me.


That would be disappointing. However, Magic could still pull it off by constructing the rest of the roster effectively. If the second free agent is not a genuine superstar (Durant or Kawhi), the story isn’t over. Conversely, even if the second free agent is a genuine superstar, Magic can still fail if the rest of the roster is inadequate.


Yup. Getting the 2nd star may not be as difficult as some may make it (though in varying degrees).

It's the margins that we win/lose a championship once we get a 2nd, even 3rd all star. Does our FO have the capacity to find the gems?

I'm honestly a bit skeptical as that would require a robust analytics department.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:20 am    Post subject:

Yinoma is right.
I'm saving my pitchfork until we know where PG13's money goes this offseason.
If it's Kawhi or KD. Every step of the plan up to that point was worth it.
If its Butler, Klay, or Kyrie. It's a push until we see the results.
If it's a bunch of role players. The FO probably should've gone a different route. Like going all out to make the PG13 trade happen.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:27 am    Post subject:

skin wrote:
people keep forgetting that trading d'lo got us kuzma.


Not forgotten, just inaccurate. And replacing Kuzma with DLO would be great for the franchise. DLO is a much better player.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:28 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
blackmamba08 wrote:
I think Magic should start to teach our young guys and not to spend time teaching Simmons. WTF is happening with this organization.


Simmons asked.


Billion dollar tampering fine?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:31 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
MJST wrote:
blackmamba08 wrote:
I think Magic should start to teach our young guys and not to spend time teaching Simmons. WTF is happening with this organization.


Simmons asked.


Billion dollar tampering fine?
It would break the Philly FO.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:34 am    Post subject:

If we don't get a max free agent this summer, it means we let go of Russell, Randle, Zubac and Svi for no reason. But for the go all in on cap space plan, they would all still be Lakers. That will make the front office a colossal failure in my mind.

Remember, the plan was always Two Max Free Agents AND the young core (Ingram/Kuz/Ball). Anything less than that, and they aren't meeting their promises. Anything less than that, I don't see how the FO is any better than Jim/Mitch (and maybe even worse given what's happened to date).
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
jg77 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I still will hold true to my pledge (after my emotions were reined in after the DLO trade) to reserve full judgment until after this summer FA. If he gets that 2nd max, keeps the core, we will be in great shape.


If the 2nd max ends up being Kyrie or around that level then it's a failure to me.


That would be disappointing. However, Magic could still pull it off by constructing the rest of the roster effectively. If the second free agent is not a genuine superstar (Durant or Kawhi), the story isn’t over. Conversely, even if the second free agent is a genuine superstar, Magic can still fail if the rest of the roster is inadequate.


Yup. Getting the 2nd star may not be as difficult as some may make it (though in varying degrees).

It's the margins that we win/lose a championship once we get a 2nd, even 3rd all star. Does our FO have the capacity to find the gems?

I'm honestly a bit skeptical as that would require a robust analytics department.


Analytics could help, but first and foremost Magic needs to have a plan for the overall roster construction. Let’s assume for sake of discussion that Irving is the big signing. I think that’s unlikely, but you never know. What do we need for the rest of the roster to optimize Lebron and Irving? How do we get it? Who stays and who goes?

I’m pulling for Magic, but I can’t say that his roster building to date inspires confidence. Hopefully, he and Pelinka are growing into the job.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
MJST wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
https://twitter.com/hoopindetail/status/1094925131422457856?s=21


https://streamable.com/tryaz

I swear Magic lies more than a car salesman. If you can't keep your story straight 24 hours apart, all you do is justify why no one on the roster should believe anything you have to say and why your 'meeting' meant jack squat to them.

Magic 'puffing up his chest' on Sunday as if he wasn't recorded on Saturday would be funny if it both wasn't true, and didn't further shed light on the problem.


He’s always been way too gregarious ,,,, with like manic proclamations about the roster’s future and even current players.... not the demeanor of a negotiator at all. Teams try to prey on a rookie bullsh**** like Magic
not a single team has preyed on magic or the lakers.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:41 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:


Fair. Warriors aren't the only team to worry about though. Agree to disagree. You have a lot of faith in LeBron and I just don't at his current age. I don't even think he's been a top 5 player this year. But if he goes on a post season run then I'll change my opinion.


But it's:

1. max FA (to carry more of the load off of LBJ);
2. another year of experience for the YUTES (or maybe even AD trade/other trades).

Folks act as if LBJ will be going up against everyone by himself.


If that other max FA is Kyrie, there is a good chance he will.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:42 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Yinoma is right.
I'm saving my pitchfork until we know where PG13's money goes this offseason.
If it's Kawhi or KD. Every step of the plan up to that point was worth it.
If its Butler, Klay, or Kyrie. It's a push until we see the results.
If it's a bunch of role players. The FO probably should've gone a different route. Like going all out to make the PG13 trade happen.


I would argue signing Kyrie would be in the success right off the bat category but I do agree with the general point.

LakerSanity wrote:
If we don't get a max free agent this summer, it means we let go of Russell, Randle, Zubac and Svi for no reason. But for the go all in on cap space plan, they would all still be Lakers. That will make the front office a colossal failure in my mind.

Remember, the plan was always Two Max Free Agents AND the young core (Ingram/Kuz/Ball). Anything less than that, and they aren't meeting their promises. Anything less than that, I don't see how the FO is any better than Jim/Mitch (and maybe even worse given what's happened to date).


They're now more dependent on making FA work this summer. Luckily for the this summer is full of talent so they can try and sell fans on a multitude of paths.

I'm with you, if they end up punt til 2020, that means they literally traded those players for no reason other than to give that money to Lance, Beasley, KCP, Rondo and whoever would be next years one year deals.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:43 am    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
MJST wrote:
blackmamba08 wrote:
I think Magic should start to teach our young guys and not to spend time teaching Simmons. WTF is happening with this organization.


Simmons asked.


Billion dollar tampering fine?
It would break the Philly FO.


I don’t think you understand tampering.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:48 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
If we don't get a max free agent this summer, it means we let go of Russell, Randle, Zubac and Svi for no reason. But for the go all in on cap space plan, they would all still be Lakers. That will make the front office a colossal failure in my mind.

Remember, the plan was always Two Max Free Agents AND the young core (Ingram/Kuz/Ball). Anything less than that, and they aren't meeting their promises. Anything less than that, I don't see how the FO is any better than Jim/Mitch (and maybe even worse given what's happened to date).


Trading for AD will be an even more colossal failure imo.

We've already gotten rid of Svi and Zu for probably no reason.

So that would require all of Zo/BI/Kuz/Hart... maybe Mo and Bonga to make up the difference... plus picks.

The free agent plan in any form... even two good players vs. one of the elites would be better than getting rid of everyone.

I'd say in order of preference.

Sign one of KD/Kawhi/Kyrie/Klay/Kemba/Khris/Tobias/Butler and add them to the core

Sign one of two lesser agents like Vucevic plus DLO and add them to the core

Sign a lesser agent and some rentals and add AD in 2020

The worst is trade everyone and picks for AD.

There is no way we will get away with keeping anyone... and we lost Zu and Svi so there is even less bench depth or cost controlled assets.

I'm praying for any of the first three choices... but it's hard not to see the front office with their single minded obsession perhaps fueled by Klutch's influence... not doing the fourth option.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:03 am    Post subject:

Here are some key numbers for Kyrie Irving.



2011 - 12...51/66
2012 - 13...59/82
2013 - 14...71/82
2014 - 15...75/82
2015 - 16...53/82
2016 - 17...72/82
2017 - 18...60/82


2018 - 19...47/56.......Currently listed as day to day with a right kneee strain.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:05 am    Post subject:

If we end up with: LBJ/2019 max FA/AD, I'd be more than happy with that too.

LBJ/2019 max/YUTES, I'd be very happy with that too.

Obviously not getting one, yes, that's a calamity.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:08 am    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
Here are some key numbers for Kyrie Irving.



2011 - 12...51/66
2012 - 13...59/82
2013 - 14...71/82
2014 - 15...75/82
2015 - 16...53/82
2016 - 17...72/82
2017 - 18...60/82


2018 - 19...47/56.......Currently listed as day to day with a right kneee strain.


And yet he has more 70 game seasons than AD... 3
As well as Jeremy Lin who will have 5 at the end of this year.

So these fragile players have more 70 game seasons than AD (2) who we are about to trade the rest of our youth and picks for.

I agree Kyrie is risky... but compared to the AD spectre looming over our heads... it's child's play in terms of risk management.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:12 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
If we end up with: LBJ/2019 max FA/AD, I'd be more than happy with that too.

LBJ/2019 max/YUTES, I'd be very happy with that too.

Obviously not getting one, yes, that's a calamity.


It is a calamity... but the only worse calamity is trading the other five YUTES plus our picks for AD.

One is a garden variety calamity... the other is a hold my beer Dwight Howard and Steve Nash calamity.

There are things worse than punting... maybe not for LBJ... but definitely for us.
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