Official MAGINKA Front Office Thread (Magic: "I built this team based on playoffs", p. 27)
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:19 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
Or in your contrary...unafraid to be wrong all the time...never met a bad take you didn't like...one of a kind way...do you expect them to regress with more dedicated training, another year of experience, and playing with the best player alive?


Just a passing comment here. For years, I've seen Lebron bashers arguing that no one ever gets better playing with him. This is typically contrasted with the reverse argument about Kobe. I've never taken the time to figure out whether this is true. However, I don't know that Lebron has ever been the mentor type. Maybe he is moving that direction at this point in his career, which would be understandable. He sure didn't do much for Clarkson, though. Let's hope that you're right about this.


It won’t matter. People will have excuses ready either way.

If the young players improve, it is that they improved in spite of James (and some will go so far to wonder how much more improved they’d be if LBJ didn’t come here).

On the flip side, if the players don’t improve, it would be Lebrons fault.

All this to say, the truth is almsot always somewhere in between.


Disagree, if the young players improve it will be because of Lebron. If not, it will be because of them.


You disagreed with me and then proved my point. LOL.

Young players are going to improve regardless. So the degree to which they will improve not be because of Lebron, but in part because of Lebron.

Again, truth is usually somewhere in the middle.
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ExPatLkrFan
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:44 pm    Post subject:

Do it Mitch! wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:

At least the young guys are still here, which you and many others believed would be gone if LeGM were to sign here.


Yeah, some of these guys were saying - Well one things for sure, if LeBron James signs with the Lakers then you can say goodbye to the Lakers young core. LeBron will be in win now mode and demand the front office trade them away for more established vets.

Welp, that never happened.



Haven't run into our first losing streak either.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:46 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Lebron could have "safely" chosen the Rockets if he was merely ring chasing but he chose our depth and potential.

He knows what he got into.


Eh. He chose the business opportunities in LA. That's fine, as long as it doesn't get in the way of maintaining his elite status for as long as feasible.


Not that I disagree, but it should be noted that people mocked the whole “We are LA” and there is the “you can do business from anywhere now” narrative.

Can’t have it both ways is all I’m saying.


I wouldn’t go that far. If you want to make a few commercials and build a brand through social media and the like, you can do it in any of the NBA cities, though there would still be some degree of advantage if you’re in a big market. Lebron wants to get into the movie business. He is now a member of the Producers Guild of America. That’s a different kettle of fish.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:25 pm    Post subject:

Do it Mitch! wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:

At least the young guys are still here, which you and many others believed would be gone if LeGM were to sign here.


Yeah, some of these guys were saying - Well one things for sure, if LeBron James signs with the Lakers then you can say goodbye to the Lakers young core. LeBron will be in win now mode and demand the front office trade them away for more established vets.

Welp, that never happened.


I was one of them. Thought adding Lebron would result in a win now movement at the expense of the youth.

Once he inked for 4 yrs without anyone else on board, I changed my position because he clearly did that with the long term in mind.
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Judah
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:37 pm    Post subject:

ExPatLkrFan wrote:
Do it Mitch! wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:

At least the young guys are still here, which you and many others believed would be gone if LeGM were to sign here.


Yeah, some of these guys were saying - Well one things for sure, if LeBron James signs with the Lakers then you can say goodbye to the Lakers young core. LeBron will be in win now mode and demand the front office trade them away for more established vets.

Welp, that never happened.



Haven't run into our first losing streak either.

They didn't even trade for Kawhi when they had the chance. You think a losing streak will do the trick and they'll just make some shortsighted move, mortgaging the future to end a losing streak? Give me a break, man.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:44 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
Or in your contrary...unafraid to be wrong all the time...never met a bad take you didn't like...one of a kind way...do you expect them to regress with more dedicated training, another year of experience, and playing with the best player alive?


Just a passing comment here. For years, I've seen Lebron bashers arguing that no one ever gets better playing with him. This is typically contrasted with the reverse argument about Kobe. I've never taken the time to figure out whether this is true. However, I don't know that Lebron has ever been the mentor type. Maybe he is moving that direction at this point in his career, which would be understandable. He sure didn't do much for Clarkson, though. Let's hope that you're right about this.


It won’t matter. People will have excuses ready either way.

If the young players improve, it is that they improved in spite of James (and some will go so far to wonder how much more improved they’d be if LBJ didn’t come here).

On the flip side, if the players don’t improve, it would be Lebrons fault.

All this to say, the truth is almsot always somewhere in between.


Disagree, if the young players improve it will be because of Lebron. If not, it will be because of them.


You disagreed with me and then proved my point. LOL.

Young players are going to improve regardless. So the degree to which they will improve not be because of Lebron, but in part because of Lebron.

Again, truth is usually somewhere in the middle.


I had alot of trouble understanding this sentence
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:56 pm    Post subject:

My main take away from this off season is

1. Great job of finally getting that big fish (the biggest of them all)
2. We left a lot to be desired when it came to putting the best players possible around LeBron
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Do it Mitch!
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:06 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Do it Mitch! wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:

At least the young guys are still here, which you and many others believed would be gone if LeGM were to sign here.


Yeah, some of these guys were saying - Well one things for sure, if LeBron James signs with the Lakers then you can say goodbye to the Lakers young core. LeBron will be in win now mode and demand the front office trade them away for more established vets.

Welp, that never happened.


I was one of them. Thought adding Lebron would result in a win now movement at the expense of the youth.

Once he inked for 4 yrs without anyone else on board, I changed my position because he clearly did that with the long term in mind.


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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:55 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
ExPatLkrFan wrote:
Haven't run into our first losing streak either.

They didn't even trade for Kawhi when they had the chance. You think a losing streak will do the trick and they'll just make some shortsighted move, mortgaging the future to end a losing streak? Give me a break, man.


I'm less worried about Magic making that kind of move than I was a month ago. Having said that, if we go through a bad patch early in the season, it will be a stress test of sorts.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:24 pm    Post subject:

noahp45 wrote:
I dropped the Bron hater-ade once KD went to GS.


This.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:30 pm    Post subject:

I personally like the site www.ihatelebron.com

If I'm ever tempted to like him, I just need to be reminded that he's a narcissistic douche.

I'll still root for the Lakers, but he's an easy guy not to like for me personally.
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Judah
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:21 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Judah wrote:
ExPatLkrFan wrote:
Haven't run into our first losing streak either.

They didn't even trade for Kawhi when they had the chance. You think a losing streak will do the trick and they'll just make some shortsighted move, mortgaging the future to end a losing streak? Give me a break, man.


I'm less worried about Magic making that kind of move than I was a month ago. Having said that, if we go through a bad patch early in the season, it will be a stress test of sorts.

I just don't see how it's plausible that they would pass on arguably the best two-way player in the game in order to keep the young core intact, but then they'd make some shortsighted, reactionary move for a player(s) of lesser talent than Kawhi because of some early season losing streak. That doesn't fit with the course they've openly taken of having a ”sustainable” run by adding stars while retaining the young players. They've shown themselves to be committed to that path by passing on the George and Leonard trades. This is coming across to me as people still holding on to their initial assumptions about the new regime. Somehow those assumptions carry greater weight for some than what we've actually seen them do two years into the job, which is a shame.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:41 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Judah wrote:
ExPatLkrFan wrote:
Haven't run into our first losing streak either.

They didn't even trade for Kawhi when they had the chance. You think a losing streak will do the trick and they'll just make some shortsighted move, mortgaging the future to end a losing streak? Give me a break, man.


I'm less worried about Magic making that kind of move than I was a month ago. Having said that, if we go through a bad patch early in the season, it will be a stress test of sorts.


If they hit a rough patch, who is to say about how Lebron reacts. The demands may well come. And who is to say how the FO reacts to that. Nothing yet course it's all rainbows and unicorns now.
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Judah
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:10 am    Post subject:

ExPatLkrFan wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Judah wrote:
ExPatLkrFan wrote:
Haven't run into our first losing streak either.

They didn't even trade for Kawhi when they had the chance. You think a losing streak will do the trick and they'll just make some shortsighted move, mortgaging the future to end a losing streak? Give me a break, man.


I'm less worried about Magic making that kind of move than I was a month ago. Having said that, if we go through a bad patch early in the season, it will be a stress test of sorts.


If they hit a rough patch, who is to say about how Lebron reacts. The demands may well come. And who is to say how the FO reacts to that. Nothing yet course it's all rainbows and unicorns now.

I have a hard time picturing LeBron dishing out demands to Magic. Did he demand things from Riley when he was in Miami? He could afford to give Gilbert demands because he retained leverage year by year by signing those 1 + 1 deals. He's committed for at least three years here, so he can't play that game. I also believe LeBron has way too much respect for Magic to even attempt to push him around. It's a partnership, not a dictatorship.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:31 am    Post subject:

Almost immediately he pushed for Spoeltras firing and in fact there was an instance of him bumping the coach on the way to the lockeroom. Just because things are calm now we don't know what will happen in the future. I will be interested to see his reaction the first time his transcendent point guard runs to the defensive end of the court to avoid an intentional foul. LeBron has a lot of power in this league, enough to get 30 million in 2 years for KCP a serious over pay. You think he had nothing to do with that? Given a me break man!
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:49 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Disagree, if the young players improve it will be because of Lebron. If not, it will be because of them.


You disagreed with me and then proved my point. LOL.

Young players are going to improve regardless. So the degree to which they will improve not be because of Lebron, but in part because of Lebron.

Again, truth is usually somewhere in the middle.


I had alot of trouble understanding this sentence[/quote]

Haha, sorry, I probably could have worded it better. When people are trying to attribute credit or fault to something, there is a tendency to want to point to a single contributor. X occurred because of Y.

My contention is that there are, in the vast majority of cases, multiple variables at play. X occurred because of Y, Z, A, etc.

In this case, whether we see improvement or a decline from the young folks, it won't be as simple as saying it was because of Lebron James. And it won't be in spite of Lebron James either. It will be somewhere in between. Lebron will have had an impact (to varying degrees depending on the player) and then there will be other reasons as to why a young player improves.

Even if we didn't get Lebron, most, if not all of the young players will improve this year over last, right?

And so whatever improvement or lack thereof that they make will rely on a number of factors: health, work ethic, Lebron James, natural course of a young player developing, system that we run, etc.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:52 am    Post subject:

ExPatLkrFan wrote:
Almost immediately he pushed for Spoeltras firing and in fact there was an instance of him bumping the coach on the way to the lockeroom. Just because things are calm now we don't know what will happen in the future. I will be interested to see his reaction the first time his transcendent point guard runs to the defensive end of the court to avoid an intentional foul. LeBron has a lot of power in this league, enough to get 30 million in 2 years for KCP a serious over pay. You think he had nothing to do with that? Given a me break man!


And we have Magic behind Luke like Spo had Riley.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:59 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
ExPatLkrFan wrote:
Almost immediately he pushed for Spoeltras firing and in fact there was an instance of him bumping the coach on the way to the lockeroom. Just because things are calm now we don't know what will happen in the future. I will be interested to see his reaction the first time his transcendent point guard runs to the defensive end of the court to avoid an intentional foul. LeBron has a lot of power in this league, enough to get 30 million in 2 years for KCP a serious over pay. You think he had nothing to do with that? Given a me break man!


And we have Magic behind Luke like Spo had Riley.


no real evidence of this....but my gut has always thought it was mostly Jeanie protecting Luke.....I actually have gotten the feeling Magic would not be opposed to bringing in his own guy if the choice was 100% his to make.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:27 am    Post subject:

ExPatLkrFan wrote:
Almost immediately he pushed for Spoeltras firing and in fact there was an instance of him bumping the coach on the way to the lockeroom. Just because things are calm now we don't know what will happen in the future. I will be interested to see his reaction the first time his transcendent point guard runs to the defensive end of the court to avoid an intentional foul. LeBron has a lot of power in this league, enough to get 30 million in 2 years for KCP a serious over pay. You think he had nothing to do with that? Given a me break man!


KCPs deals are cap hold overs.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:44 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
ExPatLkrFan wrote:
Almost immediately he pushed for Spoeltras firing and in fact there was an instance of him bumping the coach on the way to the lockeroom. Just because things are calm now we don't know what will happen in the future. I will be interested to see his reaction the first time his transcendent point guard runs to the defensive end of the court to avoid an intentional foul. LeBron has a lot of power in this league, enough to get 30 million in 2 years for KCP a serious over pay. You think he had nothing to do with that? Given a me break man!


KCPs deals are cap hold overs.


Sure but overpays none the less. And it's pretty transparent given who his agent is. I'm not against him I think it's a better investment than Paul George because it frees up money for other players but 30 million in 2 years is an overpay for KCP.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:06 pm    Post subject:

dcarter4kobe wrote:
We left a lot to be desired when it came to putting the best players possible around LeBron


Who would you have signed instead?

And for multi year or single year deals?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:20 pm    Post subject:

Who I wouldn’t have signed is Stephenson. McGee and Beasley aren’t bad signees, don’t really care if Rondo stays or goes. I had hoped last season that they keep KCP around for a few years.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:24 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
We left a lot to be desired when it came to putting the best players possible around LeBron


Who would you have signed instead?

And for multi year or single year deals?


I'll answer and this is hindsight but no way would I have passed on Boogie for $5.3MM. Zero chance. Worst case, we have the rotation we do today and Boogie either never plays or he's not the same. Best case, we get a guy who is an injury removed from being the best C in basketball even if he's slower.

If Boogie wasn't a real option for chemistry reasons and we were really set on LeBron/Kuz/BI/Hart/Lonzo to close games instead of Boogie, I would have brought back Brook and let him start and then end the game sitting like he did last year.

I like Lance, but Gerald Green for his shooting would have been a better fit than Lance.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:03 pm    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
We left a lot to be desired when it came to putting the best players possible around LeBron


Who would you have signed instead?

And for multi year or single year deals?


I'll answer and this is hindsight but no way would I have passed on Boogie for $5.3MM. Zero chance. Worst case, we have the rotation we do today and Boogie either never plays or he's not the same. Best case, we get a guy who is an injury removed from being the best C in basketball even if he's slower.

If Boogie wasn't a real option for chemistry reasons and we were really set on LeBron/Kuz/BI/Hart/Lonzo to close games instead of Boogie, I would have brought back Brook and let him start and then end the game sitting like he did last year.

I like Lance, but Gerald Green for his shooting would have been a better fit than Lance.


Win/loss, Green vs. Lance wouldn't make a difference. but Lance is much more fun to watch.

How do you know there was zero chance you would have passed on Cousins? I don't think you had the medical info, inside info into 2019 options, the results of direct conversations, all the input from the staff. You standing afar with no more info available than any other fan and say ZERO possibility.

Your opinion is appreciated and respected. Perhaps Cousins would have been a good pickup. But zero possibility? I just find it rather funny that a fan can categorically state his opinion is better, over and above players, coaches, and other experts. It is just presented in a way that implies MAGINKA is stupid. And I don't think that is the case.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:24 am    Post subject:

Magic and Lebron panicking over a rough patch is hog wash. They know the entire team is new so they EXPECT growing pains. They are looking at this team as not how we start the race, but how we finish it. They also know (which surprises me that many on this board haven't come to the realization yet) that the finished product of this team is still a year away.
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