Lonzo's Ball shooting: A issue of mechanics/focus/both?
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:57 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
Tilted Brim wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
The issue is he is 19.

Exactly... And the only thing that can fix that is more experience and a ton of patience.


This topic is just about his shooting right?

Jayson Tatum is also 19 and he's 5 months younger than Zo and his shooting is head and shoulders better than Zo's already is and it's not even close.

I support the whole narrative of give our young players time from Randle to Ball, but we can only keep saying it for so long. Notice that why is it just mostly the young Lakers that need time? You don't hear other young teams like Minny, Philly, PHX, Boston or NY saying that about their young players. Towns, Simmons, Wiggins, Booker, Porzingis, Tatum are and were all 19-20 year old studs their 1st year.

Back to Zo's shooting, like that video GT posted, if Zo can't help himself from taking that forward hop then he better shoot all his 3's as step-backs, that's probably the easiest adjustment he can make starting today, rather than being patient waiting for next season and the season after to break his shot down and build it up again.

Jordan-esque wrote:
epak wrote:
I think watching GTs video will provide some possible answers


Starts @3:50 mark

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Z6K_-G61mcY

Agree with GT that Lonzo seems to be hopping forward when he takes a face up shot, causing him to shoot long hitting the back iron. But when Lonzo takes his step back jumper it kind of negates his forward hop which is why that shot falls in more for him.


Everyone should spam that Youtube video link to @ZO2_ until he records a track about it.


I agree. A lot of people tend to focus on his side arm windup but I don't think that's the issue. As GT pointed out, he's putting too much forward momentum on his 3 ball. GT also shows how he's also not looking for the kickout to the open man when the defense collapses on him, which surprises me.

I agree with you guys, going to the step back right away might be a nice intervention for now, and a focus on footwork and so he can finish high, get decent arc and not clang the back of the rim. Once he gets the footwork down we'll see if that side arm windup is a problem. He does follow through well. I think the footwork adjustments alone will make him a deadly shooter at some point.
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Kava
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:59 am    Post subject:

http://archive.vcstar.com/sports/for-jamaal-wilkes-a-hall-of-fame-career-started-in-ventura-ep-293168185-351822961.html

"The first three weeks I worked with him on that shot and tried to change it, but I had him so fouled up he couldn't hit anything," Swanson said. "Finally, I just said, 'Wait a minute. Forget what I have told you and just shoot the ball any way you want.' It was too late to change it by then and obviously he was fine."

Interesting quote from Jamaal Wilkes' old coach. I think we all need to be open to the possibility that Zo is what he is at this point and asking him to change his shooting motion will add more stress on an already super stressed out rookie. F' Barkley and all the naysayers - maybe it's time to embrace the ugly duckling that is that shot - once they start fallin I guarantee everyone will have to shut up about it.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject:

Lonzo shooting 53% from the FT line is more of an indication about his shooting form and not just forward momentum from jumping.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:41 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
epak wrote:
I think watching GTs video will provide some possible answers


Starts @3:50 mark

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Z6K_-G61mcY

Agree with GT that Lonzo seems to be hopping forward when he takes a face up shot, causing him to shoot long hitting the back iron. But when Lonzo takes his step back jumper it kind of negates his forward hop which is why that shot falls in more for him.


Every Lakers fan should spam that Youtube video link to @ZO2_ until he records a track about it.


Mark Madsen has a twitter account, not sure whom other Lakers coach has one, but it'd be much easier to spam their feed to get them to see the video since they don't get as many mentions as Lonzo.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:47 am    Post subject:

Nashlight wrote:
Lonzo shooting 53% from the FT line is more of an indication about his shooting form and not just forward momentum from jumping.


Are Lonzo's misses on the FT line long or short?

If they're long, I don't know.

But if they's short, it would support GT's analysis that Lonzo tries to compensate his forward momentum by pulling his shots short. After seeing his shot miss long in-game brick after brick, he's probably also overcompensating by pulling his shots also in the FT line so they end up short.
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tlim
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:47 am    Post subject:

Big difference between Wilkes and Lonzo, thatís for sure.
Wilkes has a wind up shooting form, but his launch, release and follow through are relatively normal. He does launch it very high up like Peja on the Kings did but itís not the current shuck that Lonzo has. It still has the near standard catapult that youíre taught.

Lonzo looks like how a middle school kid shoots, before he learns the correct form.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:06 pm    Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:
Nashlight wrote:
Lonzo shooting 53% from the FT line is more of an indication about his shooting form and not just forward momentum from jumping.


Are Lonzo's misses on the FT line long or short?

If they're long, I don't know.

But if they's short, it would support GT's analysis that Lonzo tries to compensate his forward momentum by pulling his shots short. After seeing his shot miss long in-game brick after brick, he's probably also overcompensating by pulling his shots also in the FT line so they end up short.


If somebody has to overcompensate at the foul line they have a very broken shot lol. Just blows my mind to see a professional guard out there shooting free throws worse than joe schmo from the ymca.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:16 pm    Post subject:

Nashlight wrote:
Lonzo shooting 53% from the FT line is more of an indication about his shooting form and not just forward momentum from jumping.


Or it's 2 other things.

1) Small Sample Size - He has only taken 13 FTs. He is 7-13. If he made one of his misses, he would be more in line with his college FT rate.

2) If it's not an issue of sampling, it could still be mental

Also, on a separate note, in before someone absurdly brings up Andre Drummond as a case for improving shooting.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject:

Lonzo in college was very streaky from the free-throw line. He'd have games where the first half he couldn't hit any of them and then he'd make an adjustment and start hitting them in the second half. He releases his shots very quickly as well. I wonder if he slows it down to a more consistent rhythm whether he would have more success, especially when he's more tired late in games.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject:

Reggie Miiler
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:02 pm    Post subject:

I am not concerned with his shooting form. If he somehow makes them fall in UCLA, he is gonna do that in nba. What I worry most is the way he finishes his layup. It is too soft most of the time, and it is so easy to get blocked in nba. I would love to see him dunk more, coz, hell, hes 6"6, theres no excuse getting blocked over a layup when you can go right at the rim.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:05 pm    Post subject:

Mental. He's been a solid shooter on all levels so far, he's facing his biggest adversity so far and hasn't mentally adjusted.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:39 pm    Post subject:

Kava wrote:
http://archive.vcstar.com/sports/for-jamaal-wilkes-a-hall-of-fame-career-started-in-ventura-ep-293168185-351822961.html

"The first three weeks I worked with him on that shot and tried to change it, but I had him so fouled up he couldn't hit anything," Swanson said. "Finally, I just said, 'Wait a minute. Forget what I have told you and just shoot the ball any way you want.' It was too late to change it by then and obviously he was fine."

Interesting quote from Jamaal Wilkes' old coach. I think we all need to be open to the possibility that Zo is what he is at this point and asking him to change his shooting motion will add more stress on an already super stressed out rookie. F' Barkley and all the naysayers - maybe it's time to embrace the ugly duckling that is that shot - once they start fallin I guarantee everyone will have to shut up about it.


You definitely donít do it during the season, he has enough to worry about.

And go Cougars!
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Kava
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:23 pm    Post subject:

tlim wrote:
Big difference between Wilkes and Lonzo, thatís for sure.
Wilkes has a wind up shooting form, but his launch, release and follow through are relatively normal. He does launch it very high up like Peja on the Kings did but itís not the current shuck that Lonzo has. It still has the near standard catapult that youíre taught.

Lonzo looks like how a middle school kid shoots, before he learns the correct form.


Different shoot strokes for sure - my point is that both have unorthodox shooting forms that folks thought should change. Wilkes was $$$ - the point is moot if Lonzo can't get his shots to fall in. Which I think they eventually will.

Lonzo's been shooting that way throughout highschool/college at decent success. GT's point re: his footwork is what can be immediately worked on this season. I'd be shocked if he completely changed his release point.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject:

Lavar has a different opinion.

Quote:
"You've got to shoot the ball," LaVar Ball told Bleacher Report after the Lakers' 124-112 win over the Nets on Friday. "You're not going to make it if you don't take it."

The senior Ball also has some concerns about head coach Luke Walton's rotation with his son.

"Let him play the whole fourth quarter and bet you'll always win. He'll get into a better flow," Ball said. "The in and out, sitting out six to 10 minutes? He's not going to take no shots because he's not in the flow. He don't want to hurt the team by shooting."


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2742747-lavar-ball-wants-lonzo-to-shoot-more-but-lakers-have-different-plan-for-pg
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
He can't even make layups. Sigh.

Still think he should be coming off the bench. Lights are too bright for him right now.

Lol. Team plays best when heís on court


I dunno i've seen him ruin a pretty good come back before, he just plays with our best players, so we should be playing our best with our starters.
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tox
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:01 pm    Post subject:

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I support the whole narrative of give our young players time from Randle to Ball, but we can only keep saying it for so long. Notice that why is it just mostly the young Lakers that need time? You don't hear other young teams like Minny, Philly, PHX, Boston or NY saying that about their young players. Towns, Simmons, Wiggins, Booker, Porzingis, Tatum are and were all 19-20 year old studs their 1st year.


But Randle looks way better now. DLO is probably playing better than Booker (who didn't even look good his first year so idk what your point is). BI is starting to come around. It seems like your own point is hazy.

I don't even agree Booker or Wiggins looked like studs to begin with. And yeah, Towns, Simmons, KP, and (to a lesser extent) Tatum all looked really good as rookies. So what? Some stars hit the ground rolling, a la KD and LeBron. Others need time to develop a la Giannis and Kawhi.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:31 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Quote:
I support the whole narrative of give our young players time from Randle to Ball, but we can only keep saying it for so long. Notice that why is it just mostly the young Lakers that need time? You don't hear other young teams like Minny, Philly, PHX, Boston or NY saying that about their young players. Towns, Simmons, Wiggins, Booker, Porzingis, Tatum are and were all 19-20 year old studs their 1st year.


But Randle looks way better now. DLO is probably playing better than Booker (who didn't even look good his first year so idk what your point is). BI is starting to come around. It seems like your own point is hazy.

I don't even agree Booker or Wiggins looked like studs to begin with. And yeah, Towns, Simmons, KP, and (to a lesser extent) Tatum all looked really good as rookies. So what? Some stars hit the ground rolling, a la KD and LeBron. Others need time to develop a la Giannis and Kawhi.


I watched some of Suns/Nets and as an example of this, Devin Booker would have pissed us off with his play, meanwhile DLO just took over the game. I remember in their first year everyone was raving about Booker, now in their 3rd year, DLO is the better player imo.
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tox
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:19 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
tox wrote:
Quote:
I support the whole narrative of give our young players time from Randle to Ball, but we can only keep saying it for so long. Notice that why is it just mostly the young Lakers that need time? You don't hear other young teams like Minny, Philly, PHX, Boston or NY saying that about their young players. Towns, Simmons, Wiggins, Booker, Porzingis, Tatum are and were all 19-20 year old studs their 1st year.


But Randle looks way better now. DLO is probably playing better than Booker (who didn't even look good his first year so idk what your point is). BI is starting to come around. It seems like your own point is hazy.

I don't even agree Booker or Wiggins looked like studs to begin with. And yeah, Towns, Simmons, KP, and (to a lesser extent) Tatum all looked really good as rookies. So what? Some stars hit the ground rolling, a la KD and LeBron. Others need time to develop a la Giannis and Kawhi.


I watched some of Suns/Nets and as an example of this, Devin Booker would have pissed us off with his play, meanwhile DLO just took over the game. I remember in their first year everyone was raving about Booker, now in their 3rd year, DLO is the better player imo.


Honestly, by the numbers they were basically the same as a rookie and DLO was better as a sophomore. Somehow the narrative gets set and there's nothing more to it.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:13 pm    Post subject:

http://www.nba.com/article/2017/11/06/morning-tip-los-angeles-lakers-growing-slowly-lonzo-ball-kyle-kuzma-brandon#/


Quote:
Much is made of Ballís release on his jumper, but really, the Lakers are more concerned about his footwork than his shooting form.


Sorry if posted already. But I guess they know?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:44 pm    Post subject:

kobeandgary wrote:
Halflife wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
He can't even make layups. Sigh.

Still think he should be coming off the bench. Lights are too bright for him right now.

Lol. Team plays best when heís on court


I dunno i've seen him ruin a pretty good come back before, he just plays with our best players, so we should be playing our best with our starters.


YES...Lonzo needs to quit shooting 3's.. AND come in off the bench..

Maybe Luke is afraid of Zo's daddy...

But, if he wants to score he can drive to the basket, otherwise nothing past 5 feet out...!

That's why, when he goes out and Clarkson is on the floor, the Lakers are a better team...!
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:17 pm    Post subject:

Lonzo Ball says ongoing shooting issues "just in my†head".

https://t.co/UJ6qjr9gwT
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:56 am    Post subject:

Nashlight wrote:
Lonzo Ball says ongoing shooting issues "just in my†head".

https://t.co/UJ6qjr9gwT


If only it were true, but the fact is it's a real problem not something merely in his head.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:35 am    Post subject:

kobeandgary wrote:
Nashlight wrote:
Lonzo Ball says ongoing shooting issues "just in my†head".

https://t.co/UJ6qjr9gwT


If only it were true, but the fact is it's a real problem not something merely in his head.


It is in his head, watch him in practice and he nails most of them. Sasha had the same problem, great practice shooter terrible in games. Basketball is 75% mental, and there are a lot of examples of players who were great shooters that went into a funk and were terrible for a long time.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject:

this kid is a rookie, a rookie with potential. he would have been better
off if we had a PG and eased him in instead of handing him the keys.

way to much hype from the press, LaVar, fans etc, i guess...
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