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LBI
Sixth Man
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 54
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 Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Francis has a world of talent and athleticism, his problem seems to stem from his ego and teams expectations. He was expected to be the center piece in an organization similar to Kobe. His ego manifested these thoughts. But as we all know he is not that piece in the organization to build around. It is my opinion that if brought to LA he would be successful.
He will quickly realize playing with Kobe, he is not the man and accept his role. Being coached by Phil will make a big difference in his attitude. He will than be a great fit with the Lakers as their second option and the much needed upgrade the Lakers need. |
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angel
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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It might just work.
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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Canuck
Star Player
Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 1316
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Sage_10 wrote: | | I haven't liked Francies since he said no to Vancouver, because he just didn't want to play there. He's spoiled and he tries to act too much like a hard @$$. I can't see him and Kobe meshing. |
I'm with you! I hate the guy and his game! |
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And 1
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 2586
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| LBI wrote: | Francis has a world of talent and athleticism, his problem seems to stem from his ego and teams expectations. He was expected to be the center piece in an organization similar to Kobe. His ego manifested these thoughts. But as we all know he is not that piece in the organization to build around. It is my opinion that if brought to LA he would be successful.
He will quickly realize playing with Kobe, he is not the man and accept his role. Being coached by Phil will make a big difference in his attitude. He will than be a great fit with the Lakers as their second option and the much needed upgrade the Lakers need. |
IMO, Francis' ego "problem" started when JVG arrived to coach the Rockets. They had just got Yao Ming and VG thought that he (Ming) was the shiznit. VG went to Francis and told him to defer to Ming and run the offense from inside out.
Only problem with that, is that Ming hasn't demonstrated the ability to be a #1 option. Heck, Ming hasn't even demonstrated the ability to get properly conditioned.
And yet Francis was supposed to defer to him?
No doubt that Francis handled the situation poorly. Probably the main reason he got shipped out to Orlando in the first place. He's currently in a bad situation and it's cost him.
But I think that Phil Jackson would have a better chance of conforming his game to the Lakers than raising the game of a perennial underachiever (Odom). |
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And 1
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 2586
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Sage_10 wrote: | | I haven't liked Francies since he said no to Vancouver, because he just didn't want to play there. He's spoiled and he tries to act too much like a hard @$$. I can't see him and Kobe meshing. |
Great analysis on why Francis couldn't succeed on this team. :roll: |
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4OnTheFloor
Star Player
Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 1148
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Canuck wrote: | | Sage_10 wrote: | | I haven't liked Francies since he said no to Vancouver, because he just didn't want to play there. He's spoiled and he tries to act too much like a hard @$$. I can't see him and Kobe meshing. |
I'm with you! I hate the guy and his game! |
"hate that hes loved for the exact same reason" |
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Laker2Xtreme
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 887
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject: no to francis |
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| I've been a lakers fan for 14 years...hometown in california and i moved to houston for the past 6 years...i've seen francis play up close and personal...i'd rather have LO over stevie any day...over here in houston we used to call Francis "the dribbling machine" because he dribbles out the clock and then take stupid shots under pressure...no defense...sure he's got plenty of talents...but overall he's not good for the team...any team...especially on one with a dominant scorer like kobe...i'd rather have LO around for his size, rebounding and passing ability. |
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vicman
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 2379
Location: Arcadia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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i have what i think is a pretty good soultion for both short term and long term. 3 minor trades that i think would work out great.
George and 2nd rounder to charlotte for knight
slava and miami 1st to minnesota for griffin
mihm and a 1std rounder for duhon and deng
i think all these deals are possible and not out of whack. keeps our free agancy option open makes us younger and more athletic with better defense. along with a great veteran guard as a stablizing force. |
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LakerJam
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Aug 2002
Posts: 18408
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: |
2) Anyone saying "Steve Francis can't play in a structured offense" also doesn't know what they're talking about. How do you know? |
I don't hate Francis, but he doesn't play well in a structured offense. How do we know this? Because he had to be traded out of Houston for that very reason. He does like to freelance and hates to be forced into running what the coach wants him to run.
Personally, I think PGs that are really shooting guards are good fits for the triangle. Traditional PGs don't work in this system because it's about constant ball movement. Still, Francis does like to dominate the ball to an extreme extent. Indeed, the one thing I don't like about Francis' game, is that he really DOES dribble, dribble, dribble and then shoot with 3 secs. left. Plus, while Kobe can sometimes hold onto the ball too much, as well, he will pass to teammates if they're knocking down shots and are open. Steve? He doesn't do that. I've seen Stevie have teammates that are literally on fire down the stretch of a game, but because the game is winding down, he won't give up the rock. I've seen his teams lose games because he does this, when it just wasn't necessary. Heck, that's a big reason Orlando fans turned on him so quickly - because he kept doing these exact things to Grant Hill, even though Grant Hill would be scoring at will and keeping Orlando in the games.
Can that change if Francis plays with Kobe? Possibly, but he didn't change it with Yao and he REALLY wanted to stay a Rocket.
He's a player you take a flyer on if (a) you don't have to give up too much to get him (because you might just have to turn around and trade him again), and (b) he doesn't kill your team with his deal. I don't know that either of those things can be avoided. My initial reaciton is NO, BUT if the Lakers make that deal - and they have to have at least considered it - I'll give it a fair chance. |
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LakerJam
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Aug 2002
Posts: 18408
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| vicman wrote: | i have what i think is a pretty good soultion for both short term and long term. 3 minor trades that i think would work out great.
George and 2nd rounder to charlotte for knight
slava and miami 1st to minnesota for griffin
mihm and a 1std rounder for duhon and deng
i think all these deals are possible and not out of whack. keeps our free agancy option open makes us younger and more athletic with better defense. along with a great veteran guard as a stablizing force. |
Not bad. We get awfully small, though, but I think Kwame can handle the Center position - on DEFENSE, which is all I care about, especially if we've added scorers.
Not bad at all, vicman, and initially I was going to poo-poo on it, but then thought about it and realized those are nice ideas. Don't think Minny would trade Griffin for Slava, though, but still solid thinking. The best proposal that doesn't rob us of core players, while really helping us on offense AND defense, that I've seen yet. |
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LakerJam
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Aug 2002
Posts: 18408
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| And 1 wrote: | | LBI wrote: | Francis has a world of talent and athleticism, his problem seems to stem from his ego and teams expectations. He was expected to be the center piece in an organization similar to Kobe. His ego manifested these thoughts. But as we all know he is not that piece in the organization to build around. It is my opinion that if brought to LA he would be successful.
He will quickly realize playing with Kobe, he is not the man and accept his role. Being coached by Phil will make a big difference in his attitude. He will than be a great fit with the Lakers as their second option and the much needed upgrade the Lakers need. |
IMO, Francis' ego "problem" started when JVG arrived to coach the Rockets. They had just got Yao Ming and VG thought that he (Ming) was the shiznit. VG went to Francis and told him to defer to Ming and run the offense from inside out.
Only problem with that, is that Ming hasn't demonstrated the ability to be a #1 option. Heck, Ming hasn't even demonstrated the ability to get properly conditioned.
And yet Francis was supposed to defer to him?
No doubt that Francis handled the situation poorly. Probably the main reason he got shipped out to Orlando in the first place. He's currently in a bad situation and it's cost him.
But I think that Phil Jackson would have a better chance of conforming his game to the Lakers than raising the game of a perennial underachiever (Odom). |
I don't think the best way to sway people is by making excuses for Francis. I also don't think trying to convince people that Francis was right by wanting to play outside/in vs. inside/out. Especially, when Francis didn't even make the playoffs until AFTER he was forced to play inside/out with Yao and by JVG. |
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LakerJosh
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 995
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| mporter wrote: | "Wesley would be my top choice for the MLE this offseason."
I too like Wesley, but Matt Harpring will also be a free agent after this season. With his shooting, toughness, and basketball IQ, he'd flourish in the triangle. |
Matt Harping eh? Didn't know he was a free agent after this season. |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Steve Francis is everything the haters accuse Kobe of.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| thumpinghead wrote: | | Socks wrote: | 1) he's a pouty spoiled brat
2) he has one of the worst contracts in the L
3) his game is basically dribbling around for 20 seconds, then putting up a shot - not triangle worthy |
1. They say that about Kobe, i'm not buying it.
2. They say that about LO, not buying it either.
3. I admit he likes the ball in his hands, but thats fine, rather have him then lengthy ineffective LO out there as initiator, and he likes to shoot but thats a good thing too, because unlike LO, he makes his outside shots....NOT BUYING IT |
Socks = 
Thumping = 
HELL NO to Franchise. |
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jmac78
Starting Rotation
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 690
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Francis has a world of talent, but he's mentally weak and a little too sensitive. I think we have one too many weak-minded dudes on this team already.
That being said, if it's Odom, George, Slava for Francis, Hill and some draft picks, I'd listen. Hill becomes a VERY tradeable contract and comes off the books in 07. It would leave us all of a sudden thin at SF for this season, since Hill can't stay healthy.
But we could also start games with this llineup.:
Mihm
Kwame
Kobe
Smush
Francis |
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G1 Hydrogenic
Sixth Man
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Why even bring this up? Francis is DEFINITELY not the kind of guy we need, especially with Kobe already dominating the ball as it is. Adding Francis to the mix can only mean trouble. |
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DiehardLakerFan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 463
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Mitch is a stupid GM and lazy as all get-out |
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thumpinghead
Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 5657
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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bunch of nay-sayers on here...dang...
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Kevin Love. 2015. |
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Hector the Pup
Retired Number
Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 35946
Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Most of us have seen Francis play.
Million dollar talent.
Ten cent head. |
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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| And 1 wrote: | | Sage_10 wrote: | | I haven't liked Francies since he said no to Vancouver, because he just didn't want to play there. He's spoiled and he tries to act too much like a hard @$$. I can't see him and Kobe meshing. |
Great analysis on why Francis couldn't succeed on this team. :roll: |
Your analysis on why he should is even more amusing...
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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Krispy Kreme
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Posts: 12252
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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-No defense
-Not a team player
-Forces up tons of bad shots
-Whines
-Poor attitude
-Needs ball in his hands to be effective |
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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| DiehardLakerFan wrote: | | Mitch is a stupid GM and lazy as all get-out |
Extremely inaccurate and, if you haven't read or, heard it is Jax who will have the last say on whether any deal is acceptable or, not in the days ahead...
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17674
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve Francis is a top 10 pg defender,So stop saying he plays no defense |
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thumpinghead
Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 5657
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Purplereign34 wrote: | -No defense
-Not a team player
-Forces up tons of bad shots
-Whines
-Poor attitude
-Needs ball in his hands to be effective |
-You like Smush and Sasha's DEFENSE do you?
-You like Lamar shooting air-balls do you?
-They say that about Lamar. Phil can control Ego's such as Francis's Ego.
-He should play initiator, so he SHOULD be effective.
But it doesn't matter. LO can still rebound and see the floor, so it would be hard decision to let LO go. Maybe Mihm? Maybe Kwame?
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Kevin Love. 2015. |
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thumpinghead
Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 5657
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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By the way Sasha sucks right now. Too young. Where's Rush? We should trade for Rush...
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Kevin Love. 2015. |
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