Team Stats & Rankings (Through First 18 Games - 11/21/2017)
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LakerSanity
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:35 pm    Post subject:

I'll update the OP tomorrow, but here are some stats that I find interesting. Of those lineups which have played at least 10 minutes together, these are our top 5 by +/-:

1. +17 - Ball/Brewer/Ingram/Nance/Lopez
2. +14 - Clarkson/Hart/Ingram/Kuzma/Randle
3. +13 - Ball/KCP/Ingram/Kuzma/Randle
4. +11 - Ball/Clarkson/Brewer/Kuzma/Randle
5. +11 - Ball/Clarkson/Blue/Kuzma/Randle

These are our worst 5 by +/- (minimum 10 minutes per game):
1. -15 - Clarkson/KCP/Ingram/Kuzma/Randle
2. -11 - Ball/KCP/Ingram/Kuzma/Lopez
3. -7 - Ball/Ingram/Deng/Nance/Lopez
4. -4 - Ball/Clarkson/Hart/Kuzma/Randle
5. -4 - Ball/KCP/Ingram/Nance/Lopez

Its interesting that both of our starting lineups (i.e. either with Kuzma at PF or Nance at PF) are in our bottom 5. However, that may also be a reflection of the fact that most starting lineups are better than ours, while our bench is one of the best in the league (which is why most of the Randle lineups are in our top 5).

Of those lineups that have played a minimum of 10 minutes, our top 5 by net rating:
1. +50.5 (13 Min.) - Clarkson/Hart/Ingram/Kuzma/Randle
2. +40.2 (10 Min.) - Ball/Clarkson/Blue/Kuzma/Randle
3. +34.0 (11 Min.) - Clarkson/KCP/Brewer/Randle/Bogut
4. +31.6 (13 Min.) - Ball/Clarkson/Brewer/Kuzma/Randle
5. +24.0 (37 Min.) - Ball/KCP/Ingram/Kuzma/Randle

Here's our bottom 5 by net rating:
1. -48.8 (10 Min.) - Ball/Clarkson/KCP/Kuzma/Randle
2. -26.8 (13 Min.) - Ball/Ingram/Deng/Nance/Lopez
3. -22.5 (22 Min.) - Clarkson/KCP/Ingram/Kuzma/Randle
4. -17.8 (14 Min.) - Ball/Clarkson/Hart/Kuzma/Randle
5. -8.9 (10 Min.) - Ball/Brewer/Ingram/Kuzma/Lopez

That 50.5 lineup of Clarkson/Hart/Ingram/Kuzma/Randle is currently the 9th best lineup in the league by net rating. In fact, those top 4 are all top 26 lineups in the league.

Our starting lineup of Ball/KCP/Ingram/Nance/Lopez has a -0.9 net rating in 100 minutes played (our 7th best lineup), while our Ball/KCP/Ingram/Kuzma/Lopez lineup has a -2.0 net rating in 188 minutes played (our 8th best lineup).
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:04 am    Post subject:

After 17 games I don't know what those numbers are supposed to tell me
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:17 am    Post subject:

Only two things I can think.

First, our starting lineup is underperforming compared to other starting lineups. Does that mean we put Randle at PF and suddenly we have an above average starting lineup? Maybe... or it just could be that our starters simply will be average or slightly below average compared to any other starting lineup no matter what until guys like Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Randle and/or Nance show themselves to consistently be above average NBA players. Its probably the latter. We have one of the best benches in the league, which, frankly, is a by product of having a lot of players who, while talented, are still developing.

Second, I think KCP and Clarkson should rarely play with each other because, offensively, they play the same spots and defensively, they're both average or below average man defenders. They're redundant to each other offensively and neither KCP or Clarkson are exceptional one on one defenders, so I think we suffer having them on the floor together as a result. While KCP is fantastic off the ball and in help situations, he gets blown by a lot... Clarkson may actually be slightly better on the ball than KCP, but is worlds worse off the ball (which, frankly, is the more important trait). Clarkson is better offensively, while KCP I better defensively, but the bottom line is that, IMO, they are very similar players who don't compliment each other well on either side of the ball.
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Last edited by LakerSanity on Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:20 am    Post subject:

Thanks. Those are 2 interesting takes from the lineup data.
I especially agree with idea 2.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:37 am    Post subject:

Updated our rankings through 17 games.

The good news is that our defense is holding - we currently have the 4th best defense in the league. Also, our offense is slightly improving, mostly due to slightly reduced turnovers and slightly increased offensive rebounding.

However, the bad/terrible news is that we are still the worst 3pt shooting team in the league at 29%. We're actually the only team in the league shooting worse than 33% from 3 right now. We're also down to #29 in the league in FT% at about 70% from the line. Both of those need to improve dramatically if we are ever to become even an average offensive team.

That we consistently score as many points as we do (105.6 PPG, or 15th in the league) is actually a reflection of us being 3rd in pace and nothing else. If we were even just an average offensive team, we'd probably be around top 5 in PPG in the league, and more than a solid playoff team.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:57 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Updated our rankings through 17 games.

The good news is that our defense is holding - we currently have the 4th best defense in the league. Also, our offense is slightly improving, mostly due to slightly reduced turnovers and slightly increased offensive rebounding.

However, the bad/terrible news is that we are still the worst 3pt shooting team in the league at 29%. We're actually the only team in the league shooting worse than 33% from 3 right now. We're also down to #29 in the league in FT% at about 70% from the line. Both of those need to improve dramatically if we are ever to become even an average offensive team.

That we consistently score as many points as we do (105.6 PPG, or 15th in the league) is actually a reflection of us being 3rd in pace and nothing else. If we were even just an average offensive team, we'd probably be around top 5 in PPG in the league, and more than a solid playoff team.


Thanks for the data LS; I'm guessing our 3 just won't improve anytime soon so we will just have to do it by attacking the basket and trying for good mid range shots. One thing I do find noticeable from the lineups you posted and these stats is that managements goal to get personnel that helps with d is working so far...you see guys like kuzma, BI, and even Ball and KCP in the mix who have shown athleticism and or length and a willingness at team defense ....vast improvement over last year.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:29 am    Post subject:

Thanks again LS for your continued effort to keep this thread updated.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:53 am    Post subject:

Our defense is very very impressive, sure the foundation of this defense is simple, we just switch everything because we have the players to do that with success, but the implication and efforts they put in it, I say Luke is doing a good job. Disappointed in the offensive schemes right now but our defenseis solid. Now I think we can stay top 10 for the year. I think GSW, San Antonio (Kawhi back) and Utah (Gobert back) will catch on us, but I'm not sure other teams will be better than us...
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject:

I think it was mentioned on the broadcast last night that when the Lakers shoot at least 30% from 3, the record is great. That's a low damn bar, but think of the upside of winning if the 3 point shooting improves.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:35 am    Post subject:

The truth is, if we were only a top 25 offensive team, we'd be predicted to have a winning record given where our defense is at. Boston, for example, is only 21st in offense (103.3), but is by far #1 in defense (95.9). We currently score 98.8 points per 100 possessions, but give up 100.6 in the same 100 possessions. If you just flip that, you're a very good team actually.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:52 am    Post subject:

Actually, just think about just cutting turnovers and making dang free throws.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:08 am    Post subject:

FanOfFour wrote:
I think it was mentioned on the broadcast last night that when the Lakers shoot at least 30% from 3, the record is great. That's a low damn bar, but think of the upside of winning if the 3 point shooting improves.


It hasn't taken much to outshoot the opponents in the 3 point game. In most games the opponents have been in the 20% range so a 30% performance by the Lakers is more than enough. I assume that over time, they'll need to improve in that area.
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The Lebrons
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:11 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
The truth is, if we were only a top 25 offensive team, we'd be predicted to have a winning record given where our defense is at. Boston, for example, is only 21st in offense (103.3), but is by far #1 in defense (95.9). We currently score 98.8 points per 100 possessions, but give up 100.6 in the same 100 possessions. If you just flip that, you're a very good team actually.


Ya, but we expected we'd be terrible on offense (and defense). I don't want to get greedy and take the defense (4th!!!!!) we've been playing for granted. Hard to believe we will be able to sustain it (sorry, the last 4 years have made me...skeptical).

Can we at least hire a shooting coach, though?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject:

FanOfFour wrote:
Actually, just think about just cutting turnovers and making dang free throws.


Yep, do that while still shooting under 30% from 3 and Lakers can still win majority of games.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject:

We are 6-1 when we shoot at least 30% from 3
We are 2-2 when we are under 15.5 TOV per game (league average)
We are 3-1 when our FT% is at least 0.767 (league average)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject:

Current up to date stats tells me we are a good defensive team, with bad offense (shooting specifically). If we can get to the middle of the pack in FT'S, will work wonders.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject:

If we shot at least 33% from 3 (still last in the league) and at least 75% from the free throw line (a little below league average) each game, assuming everything else is equal, our record would be 11-6. Our losses to the Raptors, Blazers, Bucks and 76ers would all turn into wins, while our losses to the Pelicans, Wizards and Celtics would be basically be one possession losses. It would also likely be even better than that since a 3pt shot is worth more than just 3 pts for your offense.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:40 pm    Post subject: defensive efficiency - 30th in 2016, 4th in 2017

yes its early that but that is freaking amazing. how did we do it? incremental progress?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject:

Luke stressed defense since training camp started, particularly 3 point defense. We also added personnel that have good defensive reputations like Bogut and KCP. We've been featuring Brewer more too. These guys set the tone on D and the kids follow suit.

Lonzo's length also helps.

Lastly, Randle's body transformation has clearly helped him guard the perimeter. Time and time again he's been guarding all-star guards and came up with clutch defensive plays down the stretch.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:50 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
If we shot at least 33% from 3 (still last in the league) and at least 75% from the free throw line (a little below league average) each game, assuming everything else is equal, our record would be 11-6. Our losses to the Raptors, Blazers, Bucks and 76ers would all turn into wins, while our losses to the Pelicans, Wizards and Celtics would be basically be one possession losses. It would also likely be even better than that since a 3pt shot is worth more than just 3 pts for your offense.


All this says (assuming this defense keeps up) we are close to being a good team, much closer than we typically give this team credit for.

Or, say, if we just added someone like PG 13 to the mix...Lakers probably 12-5. Or to put it another way, the Thunder better start turning it around or PG is gone.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: defensive efficiency - 30th in 2016, 4th in 2017

nomoreshaq wrote:
yes its early that but that is freaking amazing. how did we do it? incremental progress?


I think right now it is kind of a perfect storm......

-- focus on defense from coaching staff
-- FA signings are better on defense than those they replaced
-- Lonzo has been better than expected...and even Kuzma is not a total defensive stiff.
-- effort....even our poor defenders like Clarkson are giving effort which allows them more success compared to not giving effort.
-- and a little luck. teams are shooting a very poor % against us, especially on 3's....and I think even open 3's.

the last item is the only one I expect to regress a little just by the law of averages....but as long as we remain competitive in games, I would hope the other factors remain relevant. I think we could be a top 10 defense.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:10 pm    Post subject: Re: defensive efficiency - 30th in 2016, 4th in 2017

adkindo wrote:
nomoreshaq wrote:
yes its early that but that is freaking amazing. how did we do it? incremental progress?


I think right now it is kind of a perfect storm......

-- focus on defense from coaching staff
-- FA signings are better on defense than those they replaced
-- Lonzo has been better than expected...and even Kuzma is not a total defensive stiff.
-- effort....even our poor defenders like Clarkson are giving effort which allows them more success compared to not giving effort.
-- and a little luck. teams are shooting a very poor % against us, especially on 3's....and I think even open 3's.

the last item is the only one I expect to regress a little just by the law of averages....but as long as we remain competitive in games, I would hope the other factors remain relevant. I think we could be a top 10 defense.



One thing I'm interested in knowing is if playing at a faster pace might affect some players with their 3s? Maybe they dont have their legs from the extra running? If true, does it help explain some of the Lakers shortcomings?

I haven't looked at the numbers of the 2 teams with faster pace than the Lakers though.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:41 pm    Post subject: Re: defensive efficiency - 30th in 2016, 4th in 2017

epak wrote:
adkindo wrote:
nomoreshaq wrote:
yes its early that but that is freaking amazing. how did we do it? incremental progress?


I think right now it is kind of a perfect storm......

-- focus on defense from coaching staff
-- FA signings are better on defense than those they replaced
-- Lonzo has been better than expected...and even Kuzma is not a total defensive stiff.
-- effort....even our poor defenders like Clarkson are giving effort which allows them more success compared to not giving effort.
-- and a little luck. teams are shooting a very poor % against us, especially on 3's....and I think even open 3's.

the last item is the only one I expect to regress a little just by the law of averages....but as long as we remain competitive in games, I would hope the other factors remain relevant. I think we could be a top 10 defense.



One thing I'm interested in knowing is if playing at a faster pace might affect some players with their 3s? Maybe they dont have their legs from the extra running? If true, does it help explain some of the Lakers shortcomings?

I haven't looked at the numbers of the 2 teams with faster pace than the Lakers though.


According to inpredictable, the Lakers are #2 in offensive pace and slightly above average in defensive pace. The other three teams in the top 4 in offensive pace are GSW, BRK, and PHX. Their opponent FG% on wide open threes are all around average. GSW is obviously the best in the league in open 3 pt shooting, while Brooklyn is below average and Phoenix is almost as bad as LA. But I don't think there's evidence here to link pace and open 3pt %.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:47 pm    Post subject:

^In theory, a faster pace should get you more open 3pters. However, once you have them, I'm not sure how pace could suddenly make you capable of hitting them. I'd be curious to know how many of our 3s are open 3pters, and where we rank in the league in %s of hitting open 3s v. contested 3s.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:50 pm    Post subject:

I think pace is affecting the other teams 3 point percentage. And Lonzo getting after rebounds and pushing it fast is a recipe to win games
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