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LAkers 4 Life
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:42 pm    Post subject:

There's gotta be a lot of soul-searching by the entire front office down for botching this season. I wish the answer was that simple, but it's gonna take a lot of work for this franchise to recover from it this offseason. The team did a lot of good things, but ultimately not enough to win it and they need to figure out why.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:43 pm    Post subject:

LAkers 4 Life wrote:
There's gotta be a lot of soul-searching by the entire front office down for botching this season. I wish the answer was that simple, but it's gonna take a lot of work for this franchise to recover from it this offseason.


The good news is that most of our core contributors are 22-27. We'll be in contention for a long time.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:52 pm    Post subject:

Would love JD Martinez.

No to Jake. No to Yu.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject:

@kengurnick
Andre Ethier a free agent after Dodgers pay $2.5 million to buy out option.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:54 pm    Post subject:

LAkers 4 Life wrote:
There's gotta be a lot of soul-searching by the entire front office down for botching this season. I wish the answer was that simple, but it's gonna take a lot of work for this franchise to recover from it this offseason. The team did a lot of good things, but ultimately not enough to win it and they need to figure out why.


Baseball's just not really a sport where you can come up with a specific reason why. Sometimes someone chokes, sometimes someone catches fire. As far as our squad, we are loaded. We went after a bonafide #2 that didn't quite work out. For the most part we did all the right moves. It's a hindsight thing but all of us at the moment were stunned about having Hill pulled in game 2 so early and asking Jansen to go 2 innings to close it (despite Morrow being hot fire this year). That was beyond a game we should have won. We might be singing a different tune .
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:34 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
LAkers 4 Life wrote:
There's gotta be a lot of soul-searching by the entire front office down for botching this season. I wish the answer was that simple, but it's gonna take a lot of work for this franchise to recover from it this offseason. The team did a lot of good things, but ultimately not enough to win it and they need to figure out why.


Baseball's just not really a sport where you can come up with a specific reason why. Sometimes someone chokes, sometimes someone catches fire. As far as our squad, we are loaded. We went after a bonafide #2 that didn't quite work out. For the most part we did all the right moves. It's a hindsight thing but all of us at the moment were stunned about having Hill pulled in game 2 so early and asking Jansen to go 2 innings to close it (despite Morrow being hot fire this year). That was beyond a game we should have won. We might be singing a different tune .


True... more than any other sport you have lesser names suddenly become world-beaters on the largest stage. I just felt that the past mistakes of the front office have played a role in hindering the team to go all out on a move to bring home a title. Like I've stated before, Houston ended up with a sweetheart of a deal for Verlander since they have an ace-caliber player for a couple more seasons at a cost of $20 million/year, which would be a lot less than the cost of other lesser pitchers on the market. And the prospects they gave up weren't even near the level of the prospects the Dodgers could have given up while still maintaining their high overall prospect ranking.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:23 am    Post subject:

LAkers 4 Life wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
LAkers 4 Life wrote:
There's gotta be a lot of soul-searching by the entire front office down for botching this season. I wish the answer was that simple, but it's gonna take a lot of work for this franchise to recover from it this offseason. The team did a lot of good things, but ultimately not enough to win it and they need to figure out why.


Baseball's just not really a sport where you can come up with a specific reason why. Sometimes someone chokes, sometimes someone catches fire. As far as our squad, we are loaded. We went after a bonafide #2 that didn't quite work out. For the most part we did all the right moves. It's a hindsight thing but all of us at the moment were stunned about having Hill pulled in game 2 so early and asking Jansen to go 2 innings to close it (despite Morrow being hot fire this year). That was beyond a game we should have won. We might be singing a different tune .


True... more than any other sport you have lesser names suddenly become world-beaters on the largest stage. I just felt that the past mistakes of the front office have played a role in hindering the team to go all out on a move to bring home a title. Like I've stated before, Houston ended up with a sweetheart of a deal for Verlander since they have an ace-caliber player for a couple more seasons at a cost of $20 million/year, which would be a lot less than the cost of other lesser pitchers on the market. And the prospects they gave up weren't even near the level of the prospects the Dodgers could have given up while still maintaining their high overall prospect ranking.


Even with that, I agree with JB. We were essentially achingly close to a straightforward 5 game series win. Our two best pitchers are Clayton Kershaw and Kenley Jansen, both of whom are obvious top-3 performers in their roles in the sport at the moment. And the fact is that one guy had his team score 7 runs for him while he was in the game, and he still couldn't make it hold up, and the fact is that the other guy gave up a 9th inning HR on an 0-2 pitch in the 9th inning. Those two things happen so rarely individually, yet both happened in the course of 5 games. We showed our grit to rally for a Game 6 victory, but with the variable of a 1-game season in a Game 7, we didn't have enough. I mean, if we win either of those two games I mentioned, we probably win this series, and I know we would have had we won them both. And we were in commanding position to do so in both losses.

There's no guarantee of anything in the postseason, even if you have the better team on paper, which is why it hurts so much. Not only did we appear to have the best team on paper this postseason, but we were actually in the position to get it done during the World Series.

I don't see the Dodgers going after JD Martinez based on the contract he will command, and I don't see them pursuing a trade for Stanton at all. I do think they might be in on Arrieta, although they are not going to give him 6 years and perhaps not even 5. But if MLB Trade Rumors is right and he only gets 4 years, I think the Dodgers will be in the bidding. It seems to be an organizational philosophy to not give starting pitchers a multi-year contract that goes past their age-36 season (although they made an exception for Hill), and with Arrieta turning 32 next March, a 4-year deal would only take him through his age-35 season. For the record, I have mixed feelings about pursuing him. On the one hand, his numbers have regressed over the past two seasons, as his innings pitched have declined, his ERA has risen (along with his FIP), his hits per 9 innings have risen, his HR per 9 have risen, and his WHIP has definitely risen. Maybe the Cubs got his peak, and it wouldn't be smart to dole out $100MM or so for a decline. But this guy is a bulldog, is really difficult to hit when he's on (sounds like Darvish, I know), and has a 3.08 ERA in the postseason over 52.2 IP. I can't imagine him not getting out of the 2nd inning in a World Series start.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:42 am    Post subject:

LAkers 4 Life wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
LAkers 4 Life wrote:
There's gotta be a lot of soul-searching by the entire front office down for botching this season. I wish the answer was that simple, but it's gonna take a lot of work for this franchise to recover from it this offseason. The team did a lot of good things, but ultimately not enough to win it and they need to figure out why.


Baseball's just not really a sport where you can come up with a specific reason why. Sometimes someone chokes, sometimes someone catches fire. As far as our squad, we are loaded. We went after a bonafide #2 that didn't quite work out. For the most part we did all the right moves. It's a hindsight thing but all of us at the moment were stunned about having Hill pulled in game 2 so early and asking Jansen to go 2 innings to close it (despite Morrow being hot fire this year). That was beyond a game we should have won. We might be singing a different tune .


True... more than any other sport you have lesser names suddenly become world-beaters on the largest stage. I just felt that the past mistakes of the front office have played a role in hindering the team to go all out on a move to bring home a title. Like I've stated before, Houston ended up with a sweetheart of a deal for Verlander since they have an ace-caliber player for a couple more seasons at a cost of $20 million/year, which would be a lot less than the cost of other lesser pitchers on the market. And the prospects they gave up weren't even near the level of the prospects the Dodgers could have given up while still maintaining their high overall prospect ranking.


I hear yah but I think the call to get Yu was the right one despite it not working out. You can only work with the present information and at the time, Verlander was a pitcher that was on the wrong side of 30, looking like he was headed out to the pasture with several years and gobs of cash due to him to boot. Yu was a rental that may or not may not have worked out. His postseason work was a question mark but to be frank, Verlander before this post-season was pretty bad too. Who knew Verlander was going to be lights out like that? Who knows if he would have pitched the same way with us. It's just hard to say, his Astros stretch literally came out of nowhere.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject:

Alex Bregman had an AMA this morning. One of the questions:

Quote:
What was the most underrated play of the world series?


His answer:

Quote:
Laz Diaz standing behind the pick-off


Still hurts.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:40 am    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
Alex Bregman had an AMA this morning. One of the questions:

Quote:
What was the most underrated play of the world series?


His answer:

Quote:
Laz Diaz standing behind the pick-off


Still hurts.


its been a week i mean, it sucks not to close it out, but hopefully next year will be the year, sucks that we have to do the whole 162 game dance again but hopefully we wont have a 17 game slump in the middle of it.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
LAkers 4 Life wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
LAkers 4 Life wrote:
There's gotta be a lot of soul-searching by the entire front office down for botching this season. I wish the answer was that simple, but it's gonna take a lot of work for this franchise to recover from it this offseason. The team did a lot of good things, but ultimately not enough to win it and they need to figure out why.


Baseball's just not really a sport where you can come up with a specific reason why. Sometimes someone chokes, sometimes someone catches fire. As far as our squad, we are loaded. We went after a bonafide #2 that didn't quite work out. For the most part we did all the right moves. It's a hindsight thing but all of us at the moment were stunned about having Hill pulled in game 2 so early and asking Jansen to go 2 innings to close it (despite Morrow being hot fire this year). That was beyond a game we should have won. We might be singing a different tune .


True... more than any other sport you have lesser names suddenly become world-beaters on the largest stage. I just felt that the past mistakes of the front office have played a role in hindering the team to go all out on a move to bring home a title. Like I've stated before, Houston ended up with a sweetheart of a deal for Verlander since they have an ace-caliber player for a couple more seasons at a cost of $20 million/year, which would be a lot less than the cost of other lesser pitchers on the market. And the prospects they gave up weren't even near the level of the prospects the Dodgers could have given up while still maintaining their high overall prospect ranking.


I hear yah but I think the call to get Yu was the right one despite it not working out. You can only work with the present information and at the time, Verlander was a pitcher that was on the wrong side of 30, looking like he was headed out to the pasture with several years and gobs of cash due to him to boot. Yu was a rental that may or not may not have worked out. His postseason work was a question mark but to be frank, Verlander before this post-season was pretty bad too. Who knew Verlander was going to be lights out like that? Who knows if he would have pitched the same way with us. It's just hard to say, his Astros stretch literally came out of nowhere.


Well, both Yu and Verlander at the trading deadline weren't exactly lighting MLB on fire. At the time I thought it was an okay trade to get Yu, but only because I thought the cost for Verlander might have been astronomical in terms of prospects and financial commitment. Verlander was coming off a very good season and started poorly and I wa shoping the Dodgers could have gotten him on the cheap. Hearing what the final Houston trade became, I was disappointed that the Dodgers didn't make more of a play for him since he would have fit in the Dodgers' plans short-term and long-term, especially since Detroit took on a lot of salary.

But unfortunately, it just didn't come to past. Dodgers front office now needs to learn from the experience and move on. They have questions marks just like any team heading into the offseason and we're gonna see how aggressive they are to maintain that contender status. They surprised us last offseason when they retained all their key free-agents. They'll need to start creating some balance to the lineup and hope they can find some diamonds in the rough.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
Alex Bregman had an AMA this morning. One of the questions:

Quote:
What was the most underrated play of the world series?


His answer:

Quote:
Laz Diaz standing behind the pick-off


Still hurts.


It really is hard to dislike the Astros (outside of a head to head series). Sure they were a little cocky with their celebrations throughout the series but so were Puig and Joc, it's part of the game.

Things like this - players recognizing that a lucky bounce could very well have been the difference in the series - shows that they're far from actually cocky and have a lot of respect for their opponents.

Having said that, Altuve still has a face that you just wanna punch.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:46 am    Post subject:

So what do people think are the offseason priorities and how would you rank them?

* Legitimate #2, or #1A starter
* Bullpen
* Replace bench players
* Upgrade the offense
* Improve the team depth on the major and minor league staff
* Replacing coaches
* Balance out the dominant "left-handedness" of the roster

Once the Dodgers exercise the option on Logan Forsythe, they will pretty much have all of their starting positions filled. This will be a huge advantage for them in the offseason where they will look to upgrade parts instead of needing to fill a big lineup hole. However, they will have to be very wary of the financial impact of their decisions as they want to avoid the repeater tax penalties that involve draft picks.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject:

I say go after Arietta, re-sign Morrow. No need to do much else IMO.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:20 pm    Post subject:

What's the deal with Adrian Gonzalez? He has one more year left on his contract $21.5M. Will he play 1B and Cody plays OF?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:24 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
What's the deal with Adrian Gonzalez? He has one more year left on his contract $21.5M. Will he play 1B and Cody plays OF?


Sucks to think about it but I think he has played his last game as a Dodger.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
Alex Bregman had an AMA this morning. One of the questions:

Quote:
What was the most underrated play of the world series?


His answer:

Quote:
Laz Diaz standing behind the pick-off


Still hurts.




This will likely go down as a forgotten moment.

That ball could've easily gone to the wall and Kike could've walked home.

Just so many moments that didn't go our way.

It is pretty amazing that we took it to a game 7 considering.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject:

@kengurnick
Dodgers pick up $8.5 million option on Logan Forsythe for 2018.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
@kengurnick
Dodgers pick up $8.5 million option on Logan Forsythe for 2018.


Good start
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject:

LAkers 4 Life wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
LAkers 4 Life wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
LAkers 4 Life wrote:
There's gotta be a lot of soul-searching by the entire front office down for botching this season. I wish the answer was that simple, but it's gonna take a lot of work for this franchise to recover from it this offseason. The team did a lot of good things, but ultimately not enough to win it and they need to figure out why.


Baseball's just not really a sport where you can come up with a specific reason why. Sometimes someone chokes, sometimes someone catches fire. As far as our squad, we are loaded. We went after a bonafide #2 that didn't quite work out. For the most part we did all the right moves. It's a hindsight thing but all of us at the moment were stunned about having Hill pulled in game 2 so early and asking Jansen to go 2 innings to close it (despite Morrow being hot fire this year). That was beyond a game we should have won. We might be singing a different tune .


True... more than any other sport you have lesser names suddenly become world-beaters on the largest stage. I just felt that the past mistakes of the front office have played a role in hindering the team to go all out on a move to bring home a title. Like I've stated before, Houston ended up with a sweetheart of a deal for Verlander since they have an ace-caliber player for a couple more seasons at a cost of $20 million/year, which would be a lot less than the cost of other lesser pitchers on the market. And the prospects they gave up weren't even near the level of the prospects the Dodgers could have given up while still maintaining their high overall prospect ranking.


I hear yah but I think the call to get Yu was the right one despite it not working out. You can only work with the present information and at the time, Verlander was a pitcher that was on the wrong side of 30, looking like he was headed out to the pasture with several years and gobs of cash due to him to boot. Yu was a rental that may or not may not have worked out. His postseason work was a question mark but to be frank, Verlander before this post-season was pretty bad too. Who knew Verlander was going to be lights out like that? Who knows if he would have pitched the same way with us. It's just hard to say, his Astros stretch literally came out of nowhere.


Well, both Yu and Verlander at the trading deadline weren't exactly lighting MLB on fire. At the time I thought it was an okay trade to get Yu, but only because I thought the cost for Verlander might have been astronomical in terms of prospects and financial commitment. Verlander was coming off a very good season and started poorly and I wa shoping the Dodgers could have gotten him on the cheap. Hearing what the final Houston trade became, I was disappointed that the Dodgers didn't make more of a play for him since he would have fit in the Dodgers' plans short-term and long-term, especially since Detroit took on a lot of salary.

But unfortunately, it just didn't come to past. Dodgers front office now needs to learn from the experience and move on. They have questions marks just like any team heading into the offseason and we're gonna see how aggressive they are to maintain that contender status. They surprised us last offseason when they retained all their key free-agents. They'll need to start creating some balance to the lineup and hope they can find some diamonds in the rough.


Hopefully Toles comes back and contributes the same way he did prior to his injury. If there was a knock on the team, our base running was atrocious.

Priority code red is the situation with the #2 too. Taht's the big one.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:37 pm    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
Quote:
Those who will continue to perpetuate the playoff-failure narrative for Kershaw will point to the fact that the Dodgers never led in Game 7 and that, therefore, Kershaw wasn’t forced to contend with real pressure. Those innings are viewed by some as virtually meaningless; they featured, in sabermetric parlance, a low leverage. This is undeniably true: Kershaw’s average leverage index for the game was just 0.2. Average is 1.0. The highest leverage index he faced was 0.39 (bases loaded in the 6th inning with two outs), but even that was inflated somewhat by Kershaw’s back-to-back intentional walks. Indeed, Kershaw didn’t face a situation that was critical to the outcome of the game.

However, every pitch Kershaw threw was ultimately critical to keeping the Dodgers’ season alive. If he’d imploded at any point — allowing a hit to Maybin, for example, or serving up a homer to Altuve, or getting nickled-and-dimed to death by singles and walks — the Dodgers’ season would essentially have been over. Even in those low-leverage innings, Kershaw managed to add 0.038 win probability to his team, the best performance on the year by a reliever in similar circumstances (down five-plus runs, less than 10% chance of winning) on the year. Kershaw’s back was against the wall on every pitch, keeping the Dodgers’ hopes alive, even if the outcome of the game had already been long trending towards an Astros win.

Kershaw was great Wednesday night. Kershaw has been great before. He’ll likely continue to be great going forward. Ultimately, this performance is likely to be forgotten — both in both baseball history and in Kershaw’s own personal playoff narrative — but it shouldn’t be. He didn’t start the game, and the fact that pieces are being written on the topic should indicate how impressive his performance was and how he would be trusted by many on big stages. There was a lack of crucial moments while Kershaw was on the mound, leaving nothing necessarily memorable to place in Kershaw’s postseason file. The Dodgers didn’t win on Wednesday, and as Winston Churchill reminded us, history is written by (and about) the victors. Finally, this performance doesn’t fit the narrative that people have come to believe about Kershaw. As such, it’s convenient to ignore — ignore, that is, unless Kershaw dominates the playoffs going forward, at which point this game will become the one where Kershaw turned it all around.


https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/kershaws-forgotten-chapter/


Agree he pitched great in game 7 but man we gave him 7 runs in game 5 and he could not seal the deal. IMO more than anything including Darvish is what sealed the deal for us. We gave our ace, our Fernando or Hershiser 7 runs and he could not get us the win. That is what killed us. Fernando and Orel won with a lot less run support, going on short rest and for more innings. Our ace and most expensive player blew it for us.

I think Kersh is great in the regular season but consistently he has been bad in the post season. It's too bad really. I hope his back is ok and he can lead us to the promised land next season but at this point I think we need a new ace to take over for him. Not sure who that will be.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
Quote:
Those who will continue to perpetuate the playoff-failure narrative for Kershaw will point to the fact that the Dodgers never led in Game 7 and that, therefore, Kershaw wasn’t forced to contend with real pressure. Those innings are viewed by some as virtually meaningless; they featured, in sabermetric parlance, a low leverage. This is undeniably true: Kershaw’s average leverage index for the game was just 0.2. Average is 1.0. The highest leverage index he faced was 0.39 (bases loaded in the 6th inning with two outs), but even that was inflated somewhat by Kershaw’s back-to-back intentional walks. Indeed, Kershaw didn’t face a situation that was critical to the outcome of the game.

However, every pitch Kershaw threw was ultimately critical to keeping the Dodgers’ season alive. If he’d imploded at any point — allowing a hit to Maybin, for example, or serving up a homer to Altuve, or getting nickled-and-dimed to death by singles and walks — the Dodgers’ season would essentially have been over. Even in those low-leverage innings, Kershaw managed to add 0.038 win probability to his team, the best performance on the year by a reliever in similar circumstances (down five-plus runs, less than 10% chance of winning) on the year. Kershaw’s back was against the wall on every pitch, keeping the Dodgers’ hopes alive, even if the outcome of the game had already been long trending towards an Astros win.

Kershaw was great Wednesday night. Kershaw has been great before. He’ll likely continue to be great going forward. Ultimately, this performance is likely to be forgotten — both in both baseball history and in Kershaw’s own personal playoff narrative — but it shouldn’t be. He didn’t start the game, and the fact that pieces are being written on the topic should indicate how impressive his performance was and how he would be trusted by many on big stages. There was a lack of crucial moments while Kershaw was on the mound, leaving nothing necessarily memorable to place in Kershaw’s postseason file. The Dodgers didn’t win on Wednesday, and as Winston Churchill reminded us, history is written by (and about) the victors. Finally, this performance doesn’t fit the narrative that people have come to believe about Kershaw. As such, it’s convenient to ignore — ignore, that is, unless Kershaw dominates the playoffs going forward, at which point this game will become the one where Kershaw turned it all around.


https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/kershaws-forgotten-chapter/


Agree he pitched great in game 7 but man we gave him 7 runs in game 5 and he could not seal the deal. IMO more than anything including Darvish is what sealed the deal for us. We gave our ace, our Fernando or Hershiser 7 runs and he could not get us the win. That is what killed us. Fernando and Orel won with a lot less run support, going on short rest and for more innings. Our ace and most expensive player blew it for us.

I think Kersh is great in the regular season but consistently he has been bad in the post season. It's too bad really. I hope his back is ok and he can lead us to the promised land next season but at this point I think we need a new ace to take over for him. Not sure who that will be.


Couldn't agree more.

Blame the park, blame the balls, blame the FO, blame whomever. But bottom line is, our offense game him SEVEN freakin' runs in a pivotal game 5. How that can't be enough for him is just mind-boggling. I
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject:

^
He hasn't been consistently bad in the postseason, that's not quite fair. But he hasn't been consistently GOOD, either, and that's the problem. I illustrated this back in the '17 thread, I believe (or was it this one?), but in 47% of his postseason starts, he's either given up 5 runs or more, or failed to record a quality start. So he's basically been iffy/bad in half of his postseason starts.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
^
He hasn't been consistently bad in the postseason, that's not quite fair. But he hasn't been consistently GOOD, either, and that's the problem. I illustrated this back in the '17 thread, I believe (or was it this one?), but in 47% of his postseason starts, he's either given up 5 runs or more, or failed to record a quality start. So he's basically been iffy/bad in half of his postseason starts.


Yeah and that basically puts him as a bottom of the pitching rotation caliber starter. Those guys are coin flip dudes. Can't have that from our superstar ace.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:51 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
^
He hasn't been consistently bad in the postseason, that's not quite fair. But he hasn't been consistently GOOD, either, and that's the problem. I illustrated this back in the '17 thread, I believe (or was it this one?), but in 47% of his postseason starts, he's either given up 5 runs or more, or failed to record a quality start. So he's basically been iffy/bad in half of his postseason starts.


Yeah and that basically puts him as a bottom of the pitching rotation caliber starter. Those guys are coin flip dudes. Can't have that from our superstar ace.


Yeah. Not going to beat the dead horse, but yes.
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