Ex-Laker Lamar Odom Collapses at Bootsy Bellows (LA Nightclub)
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GreekTrojan
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:46 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
It always kind of irks me when people get up on their high horse about addiction and treat it as "not wanting it bad enough"

All it does is tell me they haven't a flipping idea what addiction really is nor the people that deal with it or what they go through. It's painfully obvious when people try to treat it as so black and white.

If it was as simple as "wanting it bad enough" it wouldn't be such a problem now would it?

Seriously, some people.


I agree but as inhumane as it sounds, Lamar is rich, has an extended NBA "family" and access. At some point, he has had as much help as one can get. Its not his fault he has a problem but it is his responsibility and while I won't condemn his as weak for not conquering it, I also won't condemn those around him. Its it not up to the world to help Lamar get better after all the efforts already given.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:48 pm    Post subject:

GreekTrojan wrote:
MJST wrote:
It always kind of irks me when people get up on their high horse about addiction and treat it as "not wanting it bad enough"

All it does is tell me they haven't a flipping idea what addiction really is nor the people that deal with it or what they go through. It's painfully obvious when people try to treat it as so black and white.

If it was as simple as "wanting it bad enough" it wouldn't be such a problem now would it?

Seriously, some people.


I agree but as inhumane as it sounds, Lamar is rich, has an extended NBA "family" and access. At some point, he has had as much help as one can get. Its not his fault he has a problem but it is his responsibility and while I won't condemn his as weak for not conquering it, I also won't condemn those around him. Its it not up to the world to help Lamar get better after all the efforts already given.


ask LO if he would be willing to give up his riches an extended nba family for his mother to not have died when he was so young, ask Lo if he would give all the riches and extended nba family, for his child that died. thats only two things that he had to deal with early on in life. there's more death. there's more heartache. but i wont bore you with the details because if you know Lo's story you already know this.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:15 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
GreekTrojan wrote:
MJST wrote:
It always kind of irks me when people get up on their high horse about addiction and treat it as "not wanting it bad enough"

All it does is tell me they haven't a flipping idea what addiction really is nor the people that deal with it or what they go through. It's painfully obvious when people try to treat it as so black and white.

If it was as simple as "wanting it bad enough" it wouldn't be such a problem now would it?

Seriously, some people.


I agree but as inhumane as it sounds, Lamar is rich, has an extended NBA "family" and access. At some point, he has had as much help as one can get. Its not his fault he has a problem but it is his responsibility and while I won't condemn his as weak for not conquering it, I also won't condemn those around him. Its it not up to the world to help Lamar get better after all the efforts already given.


ask LO if he would be willing to give up his riches an extended nba family for his mother to not have died when he was so young, ask Lo if he would give all the riches and extended nba family, for his child that died. thats only two things that he had to deal with early on in life. there's more death. there's more heartache. but i wont bore you with the details because if you know Lo's story you already know this.


That stuff is horrible no doubt but plenty of people go through it without resulting to drugs with a lot less resources for help. Everybody loses loved ones, be it children, parents or friends. That is no reason or excuse to ruin your own life with drugs.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:58 am    Post subject:

One can only help those who want to be helped. There's no treatment, money, love, support, rehab or anything that will work if LO doesn't want to be helped. And, sorry, someone who knows his addiction problems and wants help doesn't go to nightclubs.

I understand the tragedies he had in his life and that addiction is a disease. I don't believe it has a cure, but it sure has treatment. And this treatment is predicated solely on the person's will. In the end, it is about wanting it bad enough. Bad enough in a level most of us can't grasp.

Any addiction treatment (AA, NA, rehabs,...) talks about 2 things: you will always be an addictive and you must always avoid the first step. And it includes distancing yourself from people and situations tempting enough to lead you to the first step. It's much easier not putting yourself in the situation of denying drugs (including alcohol - frequently a trigger for heavier drugs) than denying.

Treating him like a victim of circumstances (as tragic as they are) doesn't help, because it makes the person seem impotent to the situation. The only person who can help Lamar is Lamar. He can do it, only his chances are getting thinner every day.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:53 am    Post subject:

I'm sure most people on these forums have dealt with an addict, most know addiction isnt easy but it doesnt mean we should feel sorry for Odom.

Addiction isn't a disease (Cancer and Aids are diseases) and it isnt the most difficult thing a person will ever have to deal with. There is already enough excuses for addicts if anything I would say that mindset is that of enabler

Also AA is a front for religion stop telling everyone they're powerless to this "disease" and saying the only way to "treat" it is to surrender to god
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
GreekTrojan wrote:
MJST wrote:
It always kind of irks me when people get up on their high horse about addiction and treat it as "not wanting it bad enough"

All it does is tell me they haven't a flipping idea what addiction really is nor the people that deal with it or what they go through. It's painfully obvious when people try to treat it as so black and white.

If it was as simple as "wanting it bad enough" it wouldn't be such a problem now would it?

Seriously, some people.


I agree but as inhumane as it sounds, Lamar is rich, has an extended NBA "family" and access. At some point, he has had as much help as one can get. Its not his fault he has a problem but it is his responsibility and while I won't condemn his as weak for not conquering it, I also won't condemn those around him. Its it not up to the world to help Lamar get better after all the efforts already given.


ask LO if he would be willing to give up his riches an extended nba family for his mother to not have died when he was so young, ask Lo if he would give all the riches and extended nba family, for his child that died. thats only two things that he had to deal with early on in life. there's more death. there's more heartache. but i wont bore you with the details because if you know Lo's story you already know this.


And we know that LO is hardly alone with the negative parts of his life. Yet not everyone becomes dependent on drugs to deal with it.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:27 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
GreekTrojan wrote:
MJST wrote:
It always kind of irks me when people get up on their high horse about addiction and treat it as "not wanting it bad enough"

All it does is tell me they haven't a flipping idea what addiction really is nor the people that deal with it or what they go through. It's painfully obvious when people try to treat it as so black and white.

If it was as simple as "wanting it bad enough" it wouldn't be such a problem now would it?

Seriously, some people.


I agree but as inhumane as it sounds, Lamar is rich, has an extended NBA "family" and access. At some point, he has had as much help as one can get. Its not his fault he has a problem but it is his responsibility and while I won't condemn his as weak for not conquering it, I also won't condemn those around him. Its it not up to the world to help Lamar get better after all the efforts already given.


ask LO if he would be willing to give up his riches an extended nba family for his mother to not have died when he was so young, ask Lo if he would give all the riches and extended nba family, for his child that died. thats only two things that he had to deal with early on in life. there's more death. there's more heartache. but i wont bore you with the details because if you know Lo's story you already know this.


And we know that LO is hardly alone with the negative parts of his life. Yet not everyone becomes dependent on drugs to deal with it.
Uhh I would go out on a limb and say if you go around the US and poll people that have had LO's life. same bad stories, same parent(s) on drugs growing up. all the deaths. You would most likely find most of those people either jumped already, took the slow jump with drugs or alcohol, or insert some other harmful behavior. You dont go thru that much pain with that kind of family history and end up not being completely messed up. Sorry, thats not how it works in the real world. if you come out of all of that without any scratches. You're a miracle. I said it before. for LO to even be Alive this long is a miracle. The only reason he's still with us at the moment is due to the fact that he was also given a talent and extreme height, skill to play basketball professionally. That is thee only thing that kept him occupied this long.

All i'm saying is this vent. lets be realistic about it. You aint supposed to survive this much stuff in your life. many people dont. only a very small select few do. so why act like its the norm when he's only doing what you would expect out of his life scenario? everyone loves to play tough without being honest about the realities of people's lives. just because 2 people made it. doesnt mean the other 1000 will. Just because Early boykins made it to the nba doesnt mean all short quick guys are really going to end up there. sure they can put forth maximum effort and still most wont make it. thats the reality of life.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
I'm sure most people on these forums have dealt with an addict, most know addiction isnt easy but it doesnt mean we should feel sorry for Odom.

Addiction isn't a disease (Cancer and Aids are diseases) and it isnt the most difficult thing a person will ever have to deal with. There is already enough excuses for addicts if anything I would say that mindset is that of enabler

Also AA is a front for religion stop telling everyone they're powerless to this "disease" and saying the only way to "treat" it is to surrender to god


wrong. addiction is a disease. it has been proven to at times come from a person's dna. if your parent(s) have addictive personality traits. odds are you will too. No its not 100% of the time. But its down to most of the time. Hopefully what you're addicted to wont be drugs, alcohol, sex, or something negative. but I bet you, you will be addicted to something. I've known too many people and their back stories and it almost never fails. they may have missed out on the drugs..which is great. but they are addicted to something else harmful that isnt so obvious. or just addicted to other things that are positive but everything needs to be done in moderation. nothing should be over kill. but they dont have a stop button at the DNA level. you and I do. its different for us. thats the part that makes it a disease at least for a lot of people.

again. its not LO's problems stopped after he grew up. no. he had more problems and more problems. no fault of his own. we're not talking about the types that get on drugs and try to get off but are depressed about their life and how they messed up by being on drugs so they get back on drugs do to that depression of "man...I really messed this thing up."

No Lo can still be depressed over things he had zero control over. But the kept happening around him. This is why i said. for him to still be with us is a miracle.

I see myself as a mentally tough person. But I do realize that toughness has nothing to do with anything I have done in my life. Nothing at all. It's purely based on my DNA. I have some mentally tough parents who neither had addictive personalities. nor did most of my family. So that bad trait bypassed me. I probably couldnt get hooked on drugs if i tried. Its just not for me like that. That is not the case for other people. They can try something ONE TIME. and its a wrap for them. They are hooked. Us strong minded people no nothing about how that feels. So lets not be so quick to say ..Oh well. thats your own fault.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:40 pm    Post subject:

Eindhoven wrote:
One can only help those who want to be helped. There's no treatment, money, love, support, rehab or anything that will work if LO doesn't want to be helped. And, sorry, someone who knows his addiction problems and wants help doesn't go to nightclubs.

I understand the tragedies he had in his life and that addiction is a disease. I don't believe it has a cure, but it sure has treatment. And this treatment is predicated solely on the person's will. In the end, it is about wanting it bad enough. Bad enough in a level most of us can't grasp.

Any addiction treatment (AA, NA, rehabs,...) talks about 2 things: you will always be an addictive and you must always avoid the first step. And it includes distancing yourself from people and situations tempting enough to lead you to the first step. It's much easier not putting yourself in the situation of denying drugs (including alcohol - frequently a trigger for heavier drugs) than denying.

Treating him like a victim of circumstances (as tragic as they are) doesn't help, because it makes the person seem impotent to the situation. The only person who can help Lamar is Lamar. He can do it, only his chances are getting thinner every day.
its not about treating him like a victim. he was a victim of a lot of those things. you have to acknowledge that. he needs to. part of the problem with depression when things happen to you that you actually DONT have control over. You still kill yourself about what ifs... what if you would've done tha tinstead of that..maybe person X would still be alive. maybe your child would've survived. maybe if he would've left earlier that day, maybe that kid that they got into a car accident with would have never been in an accident. "its all my fault." a lot of people need to be properly told that those things were not their fault. Then we can move on to the things that were your fault.

but we cant just skip over those things like "yeah i know..life's tough but ya gotta push on." thats a speech for us normal folks. not for people dealing with serious depression/drug addiction which LO is and has been for some time. read that article he wrote. he told you then "i want to get high right now."

I knew then, it was going to be a long road ahead or and end of the road very soon. at some point we hope get can get passed the parts I mentioned above and then come out of that funk and just be sick and tired of being on drugs. But the drugs is a result of something else. you have to get rid of the something else so the drugs wont be an option.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:10 pm    Post subject:

Splash: addiction being a disease is only a theory infact most of the world doesnt consider alcoholism a disease we are one of the few countries that do

To say these people have NO control over it is bull they dont need the excuses pre-made for them
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
Splash: addiction being a disease is only a theory infact most of the world doesnt consider alcoholism a disease we are one of the few countries that do

To say these people have NO control over it is bull they dont need the excuses pre-made for them
didnt say they dont have ANY control over it.

They dont at times have control over their other issues that prompt them to drink, do drugs.

its not the drugs as much as its the something else that prompts them to do drugs.

now sure there is a physical component of drugs and alcohol that can make your body addicted to those things. where you will have all sorts of health issues if you dont consume them or are taking some other type of meds to help you slowly get off of them.

But what needs to be figured out is what is making you want to be be on drugs or drink so much?

If the answer is the depression. then you must find out if the person is clinically depressed and has been since birth or is that now after having one too many extreme issues occur in your life? were you born an extremely sensitive person which therefore leads to issues when things do go wrong in your life because that extreme sensitivity? especially when you have bad/negative things happening often that you have zero control over. You can't change someones sensitivity levels they were born with. you just have to try and give them tools to deal with those other things when they arise. That takes a lot of time to teach someone to do that. while that person is even learning to do these things. they still have cravings to drink or do drugs or do something else negative.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject:

I have known those with addition problems. Addiction can be more powerful than you could possibly imagine for those who are predisposed. Stay strong LO.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
I have known those with addition problems. Addiction can be more powerful than you could possibly imagine for those who are predisposed. Stay strong LO.


Thats how it's easier to tell those who have actually seen it and how bad it can get or dealt with it from friends or family.

People acting like "but he's rich" or "wanting it bad enough" is enough just have no idea.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
I have known those with addition problems. Addiction can be more powerful than you could possibly imagine for those who are predisposed. Stay strong LO.


Thats how it's easier to tell those who have actually seen it and how bad it can get or dealt with it from friends or family.

People acting like "but he's rich" or "wanting it bad enough" is enough just have no idea.


The being rich part might actually exacerbate the problem. It is less likely that you will end up in jail or bottom out because you have the money to continue with the addiction for a longer period of time.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
I have known those with addition problems. Addiction can be more powerful than you could possibly imagine for those who are predisposed. Stay strong LO.
this is all i was trying to say. this is one of those scenarios where I can't even be super mad at the guy knowing his family dna, and all that has happened to him. stay strong and i'm praying for you to lose that taste and already have something positive in place of it.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:42 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
MJST wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
I have known those with addition problems. Addiction can be more powerful than you could possibly imagine for those who are predisposed. Stay strong LO.


Thats how it's easier to tell those who have actually seen it and how bad it can get or dealt with it from friends or family.

People acting like "but he's rich" or "wanting it bad enough" is enough just have no idea.


The being rich part might actually exacerbate the problem. It is less likely that you will end up in jail or bottom out because you have the money to continue with the addiction for a longer period of time.
This...See Whitney Houston for example.
Super rich. too rich to ever go belly up due to the use of drugs/alcohol. so what do these people usually do? They keep doing drugs, they can afford to get bigger quantities of drugs without being jumped by the cops. The cops aint checking for the nba star or superstar person in the range rover(unless your name is Zach Randolph... but thats another story. lol.

So these people can just keep buying stuff until they one day OD or pass out and never wake up again.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject:

But Odom already bottomed out. He od, slipped into a coma and almost died.

His own daughter told him she wouldn't speak to him if he didn't get help and he still refuses to change. He's seems like a person who doesnt care about anyone but him.

Still I hope he gets the help he needs
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