Ramona Shelburne: Lakers Working W/ Deng to Find Trade Partner
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kevin61
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
As I have said before, Deng agreeing to a buyout in principle 1st, making it easier for the Lakers to trade him should be the route the Lakers go.

For example, lets say Deng agrees to give up 10M of the 38M left on his deal on his contract. The team trading for Deng knows they would only be on the hook for 28M instead of 38M, leading to maybe having to attach less assets onto Deng.

You, sir, are brilliant. I’d take you over Jim Buss any day. Please try your best to take that as a compliment.


In order to be brilliant it would also need to be likely or doable, it doesn't pass either test.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
As I have said before, Deng agreeing to a buyout in principle 1st, making it easier for the Lakers to trade him should be the route the Lakers go.

For example, lets say Deng agrees to give up 10M of the 38M left on his deal on his contract. The team trading for Deng knows they would only be on the hook for 28M instead of 38M, leading to maybe having to attach less assets onto Deng.


You can’t trade a player you bought out.

“In principle”. Keep up V.


It can’t be done in any situation.

Following the letter of the law, you very well may be right, but tell me, have you ever gone 41 mph in a 35 mph lane?

That “can’t be done in any situation” either.

That's true, the NBA has been known for it's flexibility in it's application of the CBA.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject:

kevin61 wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
As I have said before, Deng agreeing to a buyout in principle 1st, making it easier for the Lakers to trade him should be the route the Lakers go.

For example, lets say Deng agrees to give up 10M of the 38M left on his deal on his contract. The team trading for Deng knows they would only be on the hook for 28M instead of 38M, leading to maybe having to attach less assets onto Deng.

You, sir, are brilliant. I’d take you over Jim Buss any day. Please try your best to take that as a compliment.


In order to be brilliant it would also need to be likely or doable, it doesn't pass either test.

Define likely? Because by my definition, I couldn’t disagree more. Brilliance has nothing to do with likeliness and everything to do with imagination and vision.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject:

Deng will be here for at least the duration of this season.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:54 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
As I have said before, Deng agreeing to a buyout in principle 1st, making it easier for the Lakers to trade him should be the route the Lakers go.

For example, lets say Deng agrees to give up 10M of the 38M left on his deal on his contract. The team trading for Deng knows they would only be on the hook for 28M instead of 38M, leading to maybe having to attach less assets onto Deng.


You can’t trade a player you bought out.

“In principle”. Keep up V.


It can’t be done in any situation.


I think Joe means that a buyout is pre-arranged for the team trading for Deng. That isn't always how it happens but I also don't think it's uncommon. There's risk of course but there are also 'trust' systems (agents) in place to protect the good faith of such frameworks.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:58 am    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
As I have said before, Deng agreeing to a buyout in principle 1st, making it easier for the Lakers to trade him should be the route the Lakers go.

For example, lets say Deng agrees to give up 10M of the 38M left on his deal on his contract. The team trading for Deng knows they would only be on the hook for 28M instead of 38M, leading to maybe having to attach less assets onto Deng.


You can’t trade a player you bought out.

“In principle”. Keep up V.


It can’t be done in any situation.


I think Joe means that a buyout is pre-arranged for the team trading for Deng. That isn't always how it happens but I also don't think it's uncommon. There's risk of course but there are also 'trust' systems (agents) in place to protect the good faith of such frameworks.

Ok, so he gives up ten million dollars so he can play this year, and make the minimum, not going to happen.


Last edited by kevin61 on Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
Deng will be here for at least the duration of this season.

I agree. Unless PHX really wants to stockpile first rounders.

They’d at least consider: Monroe for Deng and 2 or 3 firsts, or Chandler for Deng and 1 first rounder.

But you’re probably right though.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
kevin61 wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
As I have said before, Deng agreeing to a buyout in principle 1st, making it easier for the Lakers to trade him should be the route the Lakers go.

For example, lets say Deng agrees to give up 10M of the 38M left on his deal on his contract. The team trading for Deng knows they would only be on the hook for 28M instead of 38M, leading to maybe having to attach less assets onto Deng.

You, sir, are brilliant. I’d take you over Jim Buss any day. Please try your best to take that as a compliment.


In order to be brilliant it would also need to be likely or doable, it doesn't pass either test.

Define likely? Because by my definition, I couldn’t disagree more. Brilliance has nothing to do with likeliness and everything to do with imagination and vision.

Sure, as long as the imagination and vision act within the rules of this universe, otherwise it's just a platitude.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
As I have said before, Deng agreeing to a buyout in principle 1st, making it easier for the Lakers to trade him should be the route the Lakers go.

For example, lets say Deng agrees to give up 10M of the 38M left on his deal on his contract. The team trading for Deng knows they would only be on the hook for 28M instead of 38M, leading to maybe having to attach less assets onto Deng.


You can’t trade a player you bought out.

“In principle”. Keep up V.


It can’t be done in any situation.


I think Joe means that a buyout is pre-arranged for the team trading for Deng. That isn't always how it happens but I also don't think it's uncommon. There's risk of course but there are also 'trust' systems (agents) in place to protect the good faith of such frameworks.


So we take back more salary in a trade and the other team is able to stretch Deng for less?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
As I have said before, Deng agreeing to a buyout in principle 1st, making it easier for the Lakers to trade him should be the route the Lakers go.

For example, lets say Deng agrees to give up 10M of the 38M left on his deal on his contract. The team trading for Deng knows they would only be on the hook for 28M instead of 38M, leading to maybe having to attach less assets onto Deng.


You can’t trade a player you bought out.

“In principle”. Keep up V.


It can’t be done in any situation.


I think Joe means that a buyout is pre-arranged for the team trading for Deng. That isn't always how it happens but I also don't think it's uncommon. There's risk of course but there are also 'trust' systems (agents) in place to protect the good faith of such frameworks.


So we take back more salary in a trade and the other team is able to stretch Deng for less?


I thought the assumption would be the trade was for an expiring or smaller contract. But I think u're assuming not for some reason? But since the OP didnt state it, fair enough.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject:

If I were another NBA team I wouldn’t trade a lesser contract for a larger one unless I am handsomely compensated.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
If I were another NBA team I wouldn’t trade a lesser contract for a larger one unless I am handsomely compensated.

It’ll cost the Lakers at minimum two (or three) first round picks or, at maximum, Brandon Ingram, so you’re right.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:46 am    Post subject:

I'm surprised he can't get playing time over Corey Brewer.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject:

lakerlynx wrote:
I'm surprised he can't get playing time over Corey Brewer.


Brewer can play SF and Deng can't.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject:

No one wants Deng's disaster of a contract. He's getting stretched.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:30 pm    Post subject:

kevin61 wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
As I have said before, Deng agreeing to a buyout in principle 1st, making it easier for the Lakers to trade him should be the route the Lakers go.

For example, lets say Deng agrees to give up 10M of the 38M left on his deal on his contract. The team trading for Deng knows they would only be on the hook for 28M instead of 38M, leading to maybe having to attach less assets onto Deng.


You can’t trade a player you bought out.

“In principle”. Keep up V.


It can’t be done in any situation.


I think Joe means that a buyout is pre-arranged for the team trading for Deng. That isn't always how it happens but I also don't think it's uncommon. There's risk of course but there are also 'trust' systems (agents) in place to protect the good faith of such frameworks.

Ok, so he gives up ten million dollars so he can play this year, and make the minimum, not going to happen.


If he gives up $6 million he breaks even if he gets three years of minimum deals and could choose from among any interested teams (at that price there would be a market). If you trade him to a team in a no-state income tax to do the buyout he could give up more and still break even.

Presumably Deng would like to have some say in where he plays so he might even be willing to do less than break even. Wade gave back something like $8 million to take the minimum in Cleveland.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:40 pm    Post subject:

[quote="Joe Pesci"]
King Randle wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
King Randle wrote:
Wait until 1/15, and see if the Bulls bite for a Mirotic trade.

Deng for Mirotic? How many first round picks would be going Chicago’s way?

If I’m Chicago, I’m easily asking for three. I’d tell the Lakers to kick rocks unless they’re prepared to give up three first rounders.

Matter of fact, if I’m Chicago, I’d probably toy with the then Lakers on Jan. 15th and drag it out considerably with the hope that if it drags into the summer, the Bulls may be able to wrestle Ingram from the Lakers’ death clutch when they get really, really desperate (after securing one, two, or maybe even three free agents).

So, with all that being said, unless the Lakers are prepared to surrender three first round picks on the 15th, no trade will happen, and any other team (probably Chicago or Atlanta) will probably want to know how valuable those first round picks could, so they’ll more than likely want to wait to deal with the Lakers until the summer.

During the summer, after securing the new FA faces, it’ll be three picks or Ingram (with Deng) to Chicago or Atlanta for space.


Zero 1st round picks. Mirotic and Portis can't co-exist and they're not trading Portis. If they don't like Deng and 2 second round picks for Mirotic then move on. No way they should give up a #1 pick for Mirotic. He's nothing to write home about.

There’s a lot you don’t understand about leverage sir. Unfortunately, I’m ot sure I have the time to teach it at the moment other than to say that it’s the Lakers who NEED this trade, not Chicago.

Sorry Joe but I am informed. In the end we'll have to stretch Deng because no one wants that ridiculous contract. Chicago needs to dump Mirotic because of the incident with Portis, however I'm pretty sure Chicago won't do the deal with us because Deng's contract is that bad and Deng doesn't bring much to the table. I'm just "hoping" that Chicago is desperate enough to do the deal.

Unless a team is in love with Randle and is willing to take Deng's deal that's probably the only way we dump Deng...but even that is unlikely. We're stuck with Deng for the foreseeable future.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
No one wants Deng's disaster of a contract. He's getting stretched.

You very well could be right, but let’s not pretend like teams have never taken on bad deals in trades for compensation before.

If the Lakers absolutely must have the seven million dollars that a stretched Deng would occupy, they’ll trade him with draft picks.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
No one wants Deng's disaster of a contract. He's getting stretched.

You very well could be right, but let’s not pretend like teams have never taken on bad deals in trades for compensation before.

If the Lakers absolutely must have the seven million dollars that a stretched Deng would occupy, they’ll trade him with draft picks.


And it seems like they are working under the assumption that they will need and be able to use as much cap space as possible.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:10 pm    Post subject:

its probably looking like Deng + pick for not as bad contract coming back vs stretch. Probably only 1-2 mil/yr difference out those two more realistic options. Is that worth a 1st rounder?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject:

who has the worst contract in the league that expires in 2 years? which I'm saying for after this season they have one year left on their contract so it expires after the season ends in 2019? I don't know who that would be but... if we could send them Deng and hopefully, something of enough value to take Deng, whether that's a 2nd rounder next year and a first rounder later on plus Zu and ??? plus cash maybe? then the Lakers could sit on that bad contract through this season and then buy that bad contract out for it's last year - which would presumably be considerably less than the cost of stretching Deng for the two more years he is owed after this one.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
its probably looking like Deng + pick for not as bad contract coming back vs stretch. Probably only 1-2 mil/yr difference out those two more realistic options. Is that worth a 1st rounder?



If they need that additional $2 million in cap space and have already done other actions to reduce salary, what other choices do they have left?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject:

The key IMO is to break Deng's deal into 2 pieces, even if they both have 3 years on it like Deng's.

Can trade 1 piece with a future 1st, and stretch the 2nd piece.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject:

HumanVictoryCigar wrote:
who has the worst contract in the league that expires in 2 years? which I'm saying for after this season they have one year left on their contract so it expires after the season ends in 2019? I don't know who that would be but... if we could send them Deng and hopefully, something of enough value to take Deng, whether that's a 2nd rounder next year and a first rounder later on plus Zu and ??? plus cash maybe? then the Lakers could sit on that bad contract through this season and then buy that bad contract out for it's last year - which would presumably be considerably less than the cost of stretching Deng for the two more years he is owed after this one.

I’d say Deng for Robin Lopez might work.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:35 pm    Post subject:

HumanVictoryCigar wrote:
who has the worst contract in the league that expires in 2 years?


*summoning the Lords of Irony...

Dwight Howard's contract expires one year before Dengs, at 23.8m. Stretching that this summer, assuming you trade it at season's end after he implodes the Hornets, will amount to ~8m over 3 years. This actually costs 800k MORE annually than a Deng stretch but at 2 years less dead money.

That's the WORST contract, but I think there are a few other candidates. I mentioned the Hornets because I can see Clifford using Deng correctly, and of course, wanting to get rid of DH12 (who's playing just fine FOR THE MOMENT, let's check-in around April).
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