Ramona Shelburne: Lakers Working W/ Deng to Find Trade Partner
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kevin61
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:36 pm    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
kevin61 wrote:
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venturalakersfan wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
As I have said before, Deng agreeing to a buyout in principle 1st, making it easier for the Lakers to trade him should be the route the Lakers go.

For example, lets say Deng agrees to give up 10M of the 38M left on his deal on his contract. The team trading for Deng knows they would only be on the hook for 28M instead of 38M, leading to maybe having to attach less assets onto Deng.


You can’t trade a player you bought out.

“In principle”. Keep up V.


It can’t be done in any situation.


I think Joe means that a buyout is pre-arranged for the team trading for Deng. That isn't always how it happens but I also don't think it's uncommon. There's risk of course but there are also 'trust' systems (agents) in place to protect the good faith of such frameworks.

Ok, so he gives up ten million dollars so he can play this year, and make the minimum, not going to happen.


If he gives up $6 million he breaks even if he gets three years of minimum deals and could choose from among any interested teams (at that price there would be a market). If you trade him to a team in a no-state income tax to do the buyout he could give up more and still break even.

Presumably Deng would like to have some say in where he plays so he might even be willing to do less than break even. Wade gave back something like $8 million to take the minimum in Cleveland.


Wade isn't Deng, he's made more on and off the court. He joinied a team that is a championship contender, playing with his best friend. For that privilege he gave up $8mil. Wade's play is also such that he can still sign a contract in excess of the minimum for the following year. None of that applies to Deng.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
The key IMO is to break Deng's deal into 2 pieces, even if they both have 3 years on it like Deng's.

Can trade 1 piece with a future 1st, and stretch the 2nd piece.


Asik (2+1) & Ajinca (2) fit the bill perfectly. Sadly they're trying to save money, if it was just from a position of need, having a veteran swingman in Deng who can mentor the twin towers and eat up minutes if necessary might be helpful to them. AA are just rotting on the bench, I don't even think 1st round draft picks would tempt them to move. I'm trying to speak it into existence!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:45 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
As I have said before, Deng agreeing to a buyout in principle 1st, making it easier for the Lakers to trade him should be the route the Lakers go.

For example, lets say Deng agrees to give up 10M of the 38M left on his deal on his contract. The team trading for Deng knows they would only be on the hook for 28M instead of 38M, leading to maybe having to attach less assets onto Deng.


You can’t trade a player you bought out.

“In principle”. Keep up V.


It can’t be done in any situation.


I think Joe means that a buyout is pre-arranged for the team trading for Deng. That isn't always how it happens but I also don't think it's uncommon. There's risk of course but there are also 'trust' systems (agents) in place to protect the good faith of such frameworks.


So we take back more salary in a trade and the other team is able to stretch Deng for less?

In any Deng trade, the point would be to clear his salary off the books next year. Come on VLF, some things should be implied.

It's pretty much a constant any Deng trade will take our 2020 1st. And probably some of young talent in Nance, Hart, Zu, Bryant+ future picks. Getting Deng to give up some of that money in a buyout would in theory make trading him a little easier and hopefully not have to give up as many assets.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:25 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
As I have said before, Deng agreeing to a buyout in principle 1st, making it easier for the Lakers to trade him should be the route the Lakers go.

For example, lets say Deng agrees to give up 10M of the 38M left on his deal on his contract. The team trading for Deng knows they would only be on the hook for 28M instead of 38M, leading to maybe having to attach less assets onto Deng.


You can’t trade a player you bought out.

“In principle”. Keep up V.


It can’t be done in any situation.

Following the letter of the law, you very well may be right, but tell me, have you ever gone 41 mph in a 35 mph lane?

That “can’t be done in any situation” either.


Owned.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:53 am    Post subject:

Would Minny do:

Taj, Alrich, Crawford

for

Deng and Brewer?

Deng costs them 18 million 2 seasons from now, but they'd be saving 6.7 million next year, and Wiggins' extension puts them right at the luxury tax, so that extra room might be worth something. Plus Deng and Brewer are probably more useful players now than Taj, Aldrich, Crawford.

Taj, Aldrich and Brewer would all be expiring going to next season. Might be able to pawn off Aldrich (7 mil) and Crawford (4 mil) with a 2nd rounder. Taj can be stretched for a 4.6 mil cap hit over 3 years.

EDIT: Did not know Aldrich was non-guaranteed, so no way Minny goes for this.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:30 am    Post subject:

https://www.si.com/nba/2015/02/19/javale-mcgee-nuggets-76ers-trade-grades

Free of the $12 million obligation to McGee for next season, the Nuggets will now enjoy a new level of financial flexibility. The savings alone are substantial; in conjunction with Afflalo’s outgoing salary (shipped to Portland in a separate deal), Denver is now off the hook for a possible $19.5 million in 2015-16. That salary could clearly be better spent elsewhere for a team in the Nuggets’ position, perhaps through the two significant trade exceptions now in play as a result of these deals.

I think a deal in the offseason makes more sense. Denver traded a first to get Javelle McGee of the the books. He was owed 7.5 million for the remainder of the season and 12 million the following and was bought out by the 76ers. The lakers can trade Deng next year and he will probably be bought out by the trading team at a lesser amount but it's probably going to cost the lakers a little more.
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deal
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:00 am    Post subject:

This is pretty easy; Deng probably says he wants to play above all things BUT his agent says, you (we) have a mess of money tied up, be patient, the Lakers will cave.


So, it's about money now. I think the Lakers will have no choice but to stretch Deng at seasons end...
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject:

deal wrote:
This is pretty easy; Deng probably says he wants to play above all things BUT his agent says, you (we) have a mess of money tied up, be patient, the Lakers will cave.


So, it's about money now. I think the Lakers will have no choice but to stretch Deng at seasons end...

... or give up three first rounders if they feel they must have the extra seven million in space.

This will happen if they secure Paul George, LBJ, AND Cousins. In this scenario, Clarkson and Randle would have to go too.

If it’s just George and LBJ, then you can stretch Deng (and Clarkson — if he can’t be dumped).

But if you want to keep Randle too, in this scenario, you will have completely circled the wagon back to NEEDING to salary dump Deng and Clarkson for three (low) first rounders. Is that price worth keeping Randle? That’s what they’ll have to answer. (I think he is because he can guard 1-5)

Also, with LBJ and George in tow, Lopez MIGHT resign on a one-year deal for a huge discount as well (5 million would be perfect for the Lakers’ plans).

If it all plays out right:

PG - Ball - (James)
SG - George - Hart
C - Lopez - Randle
PF - Nance - Kuzma
SF - James - Ingram
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deal
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
deal wrote:
This is pretty easy; Deng probably says he wants to play above all things BUT his agent says, you (we) have a mess of money tied up, be patient, the Lakers will cave.


So, it's about money now. I think the Lakers will have no choice but to stretch Deng at seasons end...

... or give up three first rounders if they feel they must have the extra seven million in space.

This will happen if they secure Paul George, LBJ, AND Cousins. In this scenario, Clarkson and Randle would have to go too.

If it’s just George and LBJ, then you can stretch Deng (and Clarkson — if he can’t be dumped).

But if you want to keep Randle too, in this scenario, you will have completely circled the wagon back to NEEDING to salary dump Deng and Clarkson for three (low) first rounders. Is that price worth keeping Randle? That’s what they’ll have to answer. (I think he is because he can guard 1-5)

Also, with LBJ and George in tow, Lopez MIGHT resign on a one-year deal for a huge discount as well (5 million would be perfect for the Lakers’ plans).

If it all plays out right:

PG - Ball - (James)
SG - George - Hart
C - Lopez - Randle
PF - Nance - Kuzma
SF - James - Ingram



Give up 1st rounders? I’d not go there.
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kevin61
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
deal wrote:
This is pretty easy; Deng probably says he wants to play above all things BUT his agent says, you (we) have a mess of money tied up, be patient, the Lakers will cave.


So, it's about money now. I think the Lakers will have no choice but to stretch Deng at seasons end...

... or give up three first rounders if they feel they must have the extra seven million in space.

This will happen if they secure Paul George, LBJ, AND Cousins. In this scenario, Clarkson and Randle would have to go too.

If it’s just George and LBJ, then you can stretch Deng (and Clarkson — if he can’t be dumped).

But if you want to keep Randle too, in this scenario, you will have completely circled the wagon back to NEEDING to salary dump Deng and Clarkson for three (low) first rounders. Is that price worth keeping Randle? That’s what they’ll have to answer. (I think he is because he can guard 1-5)

Also, with LBJ and George in tow, Lopez MIGHT resign on a one-year deal for a huge discount as well (5 million would be perfect for the Lakers’ plans).

If it all plays out right:

PG - Ball - (James)
SG - George - Hart
C - Lopez - Randle
PF - Nance - Kuzma
SF - James - Ingram

You have a vivid imagination.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:49 am    Post subject:

Lakers aren't getting out from under this deal. No way, no how. Impending RFA Randle isn't enough to entice a team to take on this disaster deal, and the Lakers would still need a ton of expiring money coming back.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:25 am    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
Would Minny do:

Taj, Alrich, Crawford

for

Deng and Brewer?

Deng costs them 18 million 2 seasons from now, but they'd be saving 6.7 million next year, and Wiggins' extension puts them right at the luxury tax, so that extra room might be worth something. Plus Deng and Brewer are probably more useful players now than Taj, Aldrich, Crawford.

Taj, Aldrich and Brewer would all be expiring going to next season. Might be able to pawn off Aldrich (7 mil) and Crawford (4 mil) with a 2nd rounder. Taj can be stretched for a 4.6 mil cap hit over 3 years.

EDIT: Did not know Aldrich was non-guaranteed, so no way Minny goes for this.


I think that if Minny makes a deal it would be to strengthen their opportunity to win more games.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:39 am    Post subject:

lakers4life78 wrote:
Lakers aren't getting out from under this deal. No way, no how. Impending RFA Randle isn't enough to entice a team to take on this disaster deal, and the Lakers would still need a ton of expiring money coming back.

Im suggesting that they can if they “need to”. The price will just be quite heavy — 3 first rounders.

To clear the extra seven mill that a stretched Deng would take up, have the ability to not renounce Randle’s caphold, and possibly wait-out Randle to the point he signs the $5.5 million qualifying offer for next year, it may just be worth the price, IMO.

Randle is an extremely unique piece to have coming off your bench. Even if he’s only playing 20 minutes a game, he has the potential to have a lot of positive impact on a winning team, and those three first rounders (probably at bottom of the first round) quite likely may never approach Randle’s level of impact.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject:

Wait till the off-season and stretch him if it's that desperate.

At that point it's more so about moving Clarkson's contract, and if he continues his 6th man of the year runner up type season, then there will be a market for him. Houston or Washington would probably be a team very interested in him.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:26 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
lakers4life78 wrote:
Lakers aren't getting out from under this deal. No way, no how. Impending RFA Randle isn't enough to entice a team to take on this disaster deal, and the Lakers would still need a ton of expiring money coming back.

Im suggesting that they can if they “need to”. The price will just be quite heavy — 3 first rounders.

To clear the extra seven mill that a stretched Deng would take up, have the ability to not renounce Randle’s caphold, and possibly wait-out Randle to the point he signs the $5.5 million qualifying offer for next year, it may just be worth the price, IMO.

Randle is an extremely unique piece to have coming off your bench. Even if he’s only playing 20 minutes a game, he has the potential to have a lot of positive impact on a winning team, and those three first rounders (probably at bottom of the first round) quite likely may never approach Randle’s level of impact.


Correct, but not at max $$$.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:48 pm    Post subject:

Extend and Stretch Deng over the next 11 years is the way to go. See emplay article.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject:

If we stretched Deng over 11 years, signed LeBron and George, would you guys offer Ball, Clarkson, Ingram for a third young star like a Anthony Davis?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject:

textbook wrote:
Extend and Stretch Deng over the next 11 years is the way to go. See emplay article.


As Eric wrote, the sticky point will be negotiating how much more guaranteed salary you give Deng.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
textbook wrote:
Extend and Stretch Deng over the next 11 years is the way to go. See emplay article.


As Eric wrote, the sticky point will be negotiating how much more guaranteed salary you give Deng.


I have an issue with having to give him any "guaranteed money" since both parties would benefit now. The only problem would be the NBA seeing this as clear circumvention of the rules. But they should have thought of this before. We would be just taking advantage of a "loophole" and shouldn't be punished for it. It's the same thing as the sixers tanking every year to get the best picks. That's actually a lot worse but you get the picture. Further, if they did have to add guaranteed salary it could be very minimal. It's the best idea regarding deng there has been.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Wait till the off-season and stretch him if it's that desperate.

At that point it's more so about moving Clarkson's contract, and if he continues his 6th man of the year runner up type season, then there will be a market for him. Houston or Washington would probably be a team very interested in him.

Do Houston and Washington have the space to absorb Clarkson outright in the off-season though? I don’t think they do, but I could be wrong.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:14 pm    Post subject:

55 wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
lakers4life78 wrote:
Lakers aren't getting out from under this deal. No way, no how. Impending RFA Randle isn't enough to entice a team to take on this disaster deal, and the Lakers would still need a ton of expiring money coming back.

Im suggesting that they can if they “need to”. The price will just be quite heavy — 3 first rounders.

To clear the extra seven mill that a stretched Deng would take up, have the ability to not renounce Randle’s caphold, and possibly wait-out Randle to the point he signs the $5.5 million qualifying offer for next year, it may just be worth the price, IMO.

Randle is an extremely unique piece to have coming off your bench. Even if he’s only playing 20 minutes a game, he has the potential to have a lot of positive impact on a winning team, and those three first rounders (probably at bottom of the first round) quite likely may never approach Randle’s level of impact.


Correct, but not at max $$$.

Definitely not at max money, but who’s suggesting Randle will get max money? Certain not me.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:16 am    Post subject:

Has Tragic decided if Lonzo is not a leader? Then it becomes easier to ship out Deng with Lonzo.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:21 am    Post subject:

petergr wrote:
Has Tragic decided if Lonzo is not a leader? Then it becomes easier to ship out Deng with Lonzo.


Get out of here with that shizts. That is a moronic post.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:45 am    Post subject:

petergr wrote:
Has Tragic decided if Lonzo is not a leader? Then it becomes easier to ship out Deng with Lonzo.


Calling Magic "tragic", knowing where that nickname came from, should result in a ban.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:05 am    Post subject:

Purp 32 wrote:
petergr wrote:
Has Tragic decided if Lonzo is not a leader? Then it becomes easier to ship out Deng with Lonzo.


Calling Magic "tragic", knowing where that nickname came from, should result in a ban.


I agree 100% Purp 32. Exile him to the Celtic board.
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