Lonzo Ball as shooting guard?
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greenfrog
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
A shooting guard who can’t shoot. Not a good idea.




It would be nice to get him some off the ball cuts, though. One of the reasons his percentage is so hideous is that he gets nothing cheap.
This.

how many fast breaks does he get per game? probably like .03

lol. nothing easy. everything is challenged.


He might have had a massive thrown down on a fastbreak last night, but shockingly (cough) Ingram elected to finish it himself.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:42 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
He's always been a SG in the half court.
again, not true at all. just because he gets off the ball fast doesnt mean he isnt a pg. he's just not your normal pound the ball pg. he's still not looking to score like that, not even in the half court. he will score in moments. thats not a SG. thats a PG that can put the ball in the basket if need be.


I wish I had a copy of these definitions of PG vs SG.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject:

For those of you too caught up in positional definitions from 50 years ago, Lonzo is at his best when he starts off of the ball in the half court. If you still need to call him a PG within that sort of framework, knock yourself out.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject:

What we need is better coaching. That would help him a lot
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:02 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
For those of you too caught up in positional definitions from 50 years ago, Lonzo is at his best when he starts off of the ball in the half court. If you still need to call him a PG within that sort of framework, knock yourself out.


You may be right, but if so, he will never be the player that he was hyped to be. That might not be a bad thing, but a lot of people will have a hard time getting their brains wrapped around it.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:07 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
What we need is better coaching. That would help him a lot


Yes, coaching causes air balls. How about we wait to see how Ball and the team develops? We knew going into this season that the roster was flawed, that is why we weren’t expected to win many games.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
defense wrote:
What we need is better coaching. That would help him a lot


Yes, coaching causes air balls. How about we wait to see how Ball and the team develops? We knew going into this season that the roster was flawed, that is why we weren’t expected to win many games.


He can cut and he can dunk. The ball and player movement on this team is not inspiring.


Last edited by greenfrog on Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
For those of you too caught up in positional definitions from 50 years ago, Lonzo is at his best when he starts off of the ball in the half court. If you still need to call him a PG within that sort of framework, knock yourself out.


You may be right, but if so, he will never be the player that he was hyped to be. That might not be a bad thing, but a lot of people will have a hard time getting their brains wrapped around it.


He could still average 9-10 assists per game in that role. I've been banging this drum since well before he was drafted. You don't draft Lonzo Ball to be a high ball screen PG. If you do, you weren't paying close enough attention to him in college.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:07 pm    Post subject:

I think the Lakers have seen it too. In spots, when both Clarkson and Ball are in the game at the same time, you've seen Clarkson as the primary ball handler while Ball playing off the ball. I think that's actually plays into both of their better habits, so hope to see more of it. I'm not sure the Lakers are convinced, but I have noticed them trying it.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject:

Shooting Guard or Brick Layer position?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
A shooting guard who can’t shoot. Not a good idea.




It would be nice to get him some off the ball cuts, though. One of the reasons his percentage is so hideous is that he gets nothing cheap.
This.

how many fast breaks does he get per game? probably like .03

lol. nothing easy. everything is challenged.


He might have had a massive thrown down on a fastbreak last night, but shockingly (cough) Ingram elected to finish it himself.


you see my point. and here's the kicker. I like BI balling too. so what do you do?

I saw this in that first SPL game when ingram was killing then he got half hurt and magic got scared and made sure ingram wasnt playing the rest of the spl. You saw a completely different team. it was zo setting up others to score and everything opened up and the team played Ball basketball. Not Luke/normal NBA basketball. having Ingram iso guys like he does now is regular run of the mill nba basketball. there is nothing different about that. now, i'm not saying luke is wrong here. sometimes you dont need to get cute. but playing this style of ball is not going to make zo look all that hot at least not until he gets his scoring ability to the point he doesnt have to think about it. so im still in the same spot. does luke's schemes better the team as a whole right now. or should they also make sure to setup zo for some easy looks?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
For those of you too caught up in positional definitions from 50 years ago, Lonzo is at his best when he starts off of the ball in the half court. If you still need to call him a PG within that sort of framework, knock yourself out.


You may be right, but if so, he will never be the player that he was hyped to be. That might not be a bad thing, but a lot of people will have a hard time getting their brains wrapped around it.


He could still average 9-10 assists per game in that role. I've been banging this drum since well before he was drafted. You don't draft Lonzo Ball to be a high ball screen PG. If you do, you weren't paying close enough attention to him in college.
i see your point but GT. they aint using him as a super high ball screen guy now either. thats only in certain games and certain situations. people forget what luke said after we beat the suns and zo put up the numbers. "he's done very well with the pick and roll stuff, better than we thought this soon. he can run that all day and be successful at it. but..." then luke goes on to say something about preparing him and the team as a whole for future success. Remember Luke is still from the school of phil jackson. phil jackson never liked a team running nothing but high screen and rolls all the time. because he felt the other players dont get involved when you do that too often. and that leaves guys ice cold. and when the playoffs come you better know how to run a legit full featured half court offense thats not just a high screen and roll. there hasnt been a team yet that has won a title doing nothing but high screen and rolls every game all the time. so luke does have a point. but he may be missing out on using zo off the ball to. or maybe not.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
For those of you too caught up in positional definitions from 50 years ago, Lonzo is at his best when he starts off of the ball in the half court. If you still need to call him a PG within that sort of framework, knock yourself out.


You may be right, but if so, he will never be the player that he was hyped to be. That might not be a bad thing, but a lot of people will have a hard time getting their brains wrapped around it.
most people didnt know what he was when the hype was building to begin with. so who cares what they think. lol.

most people on this very board dont know what type of player he is. i've said this many times. he is like no other pass first pg you've ever seen. because he doesnt pound the ball to rack up all of his assists (nash, cp3, even magic, stockton, rubio, etc.) he gets off the ball ASAP. thats how he wants to play. this helps his teams play really fast. but nothing about that looks sexy to most fans. a guy giving it up early. cant get the assist half the time and surely wont be the guy scoring...borrrring. lol. But he's still more of a scorer than jason kidd and rubio when they were his age and time in the nba. i'm talking mentallity. he isnt afraid of his own shot. jkidd was, we know rubio was, we know stockton was(which is the reason the jazz could never get over the hump. they didnt have enough scoring from stockton along with the dimes.)

But as we've said if you want zo to score more efficiently dont think he's going to do 100% of his scoring on the ball. he aint damon lillard, nor is he steph curry or kyrie irving. that aint him. run a couple of ray allen picks so he can hit that sideline 3. bam. run a back door pick or two per game so he can catch that lob. bam. now all of a sudden he has 6 to 8 points off of easy greasy touches. those now become 40%(3pt) 80% fg(the backdoors) efficient shots. You give him a few of those like that. and maybe a breakway or 2 per. all of a sudden his fg% goes up. now he feels better about his ability to put the ball in the basket. now its no longer in his head.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
For those of you too caught up in positional definitions from 50 years ago, Lonzo is at his best when he starts off of the ball in the half court. If you still need to call him a PG within that sort of framework, knock yourself out.


You may be right, but if so, he will never be the player that he was hyped to be. That might not be a bad thing, but a lot of people will have a hard time getting their brains wrapped around it.


He could still average 9-10 assists per game in that role. I've been banging this drum since well before he was drafted. You don't draft Lonzo Ball to be a high ball screen PG. If you do, you weren't paying close enough attention to him in college.


Ruh-roh, Raggy.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:29 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
If we had another...never mind.


At least we might be able to get one with our dra--...oh right.

At least we have two max slots for....well, hmmm...

At least we have no choice but to believe Lonzo can be a "true" point guard.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
If we had another...never mind.



good one!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
He's always been a SG in the half court.
again, not true at all. just because he gets off the ball fast doesnt mean he isnt a pg. he's just not your normal pound the ball pg. he's still not looking to score like that, not even in the half court. he will score in moments. thats not a SG. thats a PG that can put the ball in the basket if need be.


I wish I had a copy of these definitions of PG vs SG.
lol. a SG has or can have a few jobs.

if you're kobe or james harden your job at SG is to score a lot (25 or more ppg) and also look to setup teammates.

if you're kevin martin, Klay, ray allen - your job is to Shoot and knock those jumpers down and occasionally hit an open teammate. 18 to 25 ppg(nothing less than 18, unacceptable)

If you're jamal crawford, or nick young your job is to score and get as many points as you can as quickly as you can before we pull you.


Old school 80's Pg's and some 90's pgs = floor general, super savvy passer, rack up the assists and score 10 points or more per. assists should be 9+ per game. really looking for 10 since you're not going to be scoring like that (stockton, kidd.) unless you're a scoring pg will assist ability (GP, Tim hardaway, Magic). Then we'll say ok you can give me 18 and 8+

these new era pg's are short shooting guards who have handles and some passing ability since they've been the PG since high school.

Curry, Kyrie, John wall, Westbrook. drop 22ppg+, 7+ assists per. Hopefully you have other teammates that are the true floor general so you can get easier scoring chances without having to always think about setting up teammates or "should i have passed that or shot that?"

So where does ball sit? In between jason kidd and Gary Payton types.

he's a true floor general looking to setup others. thats what he desires to do the most. thats is in his DNA. BUT he can score if need be. this guy is supposed to avg at his best in his prime 14 to 16 ppg with 9+ assists per and get on that glass since you are 6'7..no excuses.


How do you get 14 points per efficiently as the ball handler guy who isnt a born scorer(kyrie, curry,westbrook)? nor is a born shooter(nash)?

its a new day so you're going to have to shoot 5 threes(max unless you're hot). per game. just make 2 of them. thats 40% from 3. if you really cant shoot that well. the 2 can be taken from short corners. the box score readers wont notice you cant really shoot the 3. they will only see 40%. they wont know all your 3's are from the side. you now have 6 points. you need another 8 to get to 14.

2 fast breaks per game. thats 4 points at 100% unless lebron or now john wall tracks you down

you still need an additional 4 points? thats one floater off the lopez screen and one back door lob per game.

^^thats perfect case scenario. obviously you will take a few more shots. sometimes you will get fouled and get to the line. that could also help you get to 14 ppg or higher. basically you have to mix up your scoring. it can be 100% on ball scoring. you aint that good of a scorer to pull that off. lets be honest about it. he knows that. and anyone paying attention to him in HS or college should know this. he's a better scorer than jkidd was. but not far better. he's never going to be kyrie. never ever ever. ever no matter you play him at PG or SG. never.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject:

So now that DLO is gone people have to try and force another point guard into being a shooting guard. So they cycle continues....
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
For those of you too caught up in positional definitions from 50 years ago, Lonzo is at his best when he starts off of the ball in the half court. If you still need to call him a PG within that sort of framework, knock yourself out.


You may be right, but if so, he will never be the player that he was hyped to be. That might not be a bad thing, but a lot of people will have a hard time getting their brains wrapped around it.


He could still average 9-10 assists per game in that role. I've been banging this drum since well before he was drafted. You don't draft Lonzo Ball to be a high ball screen PG. If you do, you weren't paying close enough attention to him in college.


It's time to start looking at replacing the coaching staff. Luke has not shown me the ability to maximize players abilities.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Lonzo Ball as shooting guard?

JrR31 wrote:
What do you guys think?

He needs to pick up new skills.

We know he can pass the rock and rebound for a PG that's awesome.

But i like too see some plays where he runs off a screen and penetrates.

Cuts baseline for an alley oop. Slash and tear drop that biyotch!

YAH! I like that a lot.


Said it before when he was at UCLA will say it again. Lonzo's style would fot perfect as the 2 in Luke's Offense and could trade point guard roles with the off/on ball guard next to him and it'd be a perfect fit.

Of course that was back when we had D'Angelo.

Options like that no longer exist. We can thank Magic for that.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:05 pm    Post subject:

There's a pun somewhere in here right?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:26 pm    Post subject:

SHOOTING?

We talking about shooting?!?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject:

Dejavu... is DLonzo a SG
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject:

Shouldn't a shooting guard be able to shoot?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:06 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
For those of you too caught up in positional definitions from 50 years ago, Lonzo is at his best when he starts off of the ball in the half court. If you still need to call him a PG within that sort of framework, knock yourself out.


You may be right, but if so, he will never be the player that he was hyped to be. That might not be a bad thing, but a lot of people will have a hard time getting their brains wrapped around it.
most people didnt know what he was when the hype was building to begin with. so who cares what they think. lol.

most people on this very board dont know what type of player he is. i've said this many times. he is like no other pass first pg you've ever seen. because he doesnt pound the ball to rack up all of his assists (nash, cp3, even magic, stockton, rubio, etc.) he gets off the ball ASAP. thats how he wants to play. this helps his teams play really fast. but nothing about that looks sexy to most fans. a guy giving it up early. cant get the assist half the time and surely wont be the guy scoring...borrrring. lol. But he's still more of a scorer than jason kidd and rubio when they were his age and time in the nba. i'm talking mentallity. he isnt afraid of his own shot. jkidd was, we know rubio was, we know stockton was(which is the reason the jazz could never get over the hump. they didnt have enough scoring from stockton along with the dimes.)

But as we've said if you want zo to score more efficiently dont think he's going to do 100% of his scoring on the ball. he aint damon lillard, nor is he steph curry or kyrie irving. that aint him. run a couple of ray allen picks so he can hit that sideline 3. bam. run a back door pick or two per game so he can catch that lob. bam. now all of a sudden he has 6 to 8 points off of easy greasy touches. those now become 40%(3pt) 80% fg(the backdoors) efficient shots. You give him a few of those like that. and maybe a breakway or 2 per. all of a sudden his fg% goes up. now he feels better about his ability to put the ball in the basket. now its no longer in his head.


Exactly my line of thinking. And also it will provide him different set of skills to add to his PG skills which is pass and create for his teammates.

All the sudden this guy is dunking it and ISo'ing mofo's and breaking their ankles.

At some point Luke has to make this move. It might not work but there's only one way to find out.
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