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ChickenStu
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 Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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Cranjis McBasketball
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My grades for the Lakers drafting tonight:
Wagner: B+, love the offensive fit but have concerns about fit on D w/switching, defending in space, & post defense
Bonga: Honestly don't know yet until I get my hands on film & data and don't want to BS you
Svi: A, awesome fit on O&D |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Lakers got two high iq, dead eye shooters who may contribute immediately and a very cheap shot an an all upside prospect. Good two way deal too. I give it a b+ as a floor. |
C+ from me.
I graded last year's draft a B+ and it turned out to be an A, so hopefully this year's group also performs up a grade. |
C+ for me also. I can get behind Wagner (I didn't want Robert Williams, though I preferred other players at 25), and certainly Svi at 47 is fine. Just didn't like the Bonga pick, which brings down the overall grade for me. But hey, maybe it will be used in a separate transaction somehow, or maybe he'll be good in a couple of years when he's like 26-27, and I'll eat my words. |
Heard LA was very impressed with his tools. |
I promise you that I would love to be wrong about Bonga. And, obviously, I very well could be. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| jorkerjork wrote: | I've been kind of lukewarm on our draft results, but one thing that's always hard to quantify is desire/personality profile/pedigree. You can craft up ceilings and floors for players based on all the known metrics, but the profile is ultimately what will make a player reach their upside. I'm in the camp where just drafting all the guys who fell (ie Robert Williams 25, DeAnthony Melton 39, Keita Bates Diop 46) would have been an A+ draft. Those guys stuffed all the categories that bode well for the NBA in their respective positions. Yeah, none of those guys are the prototypical shooters the Lakers wanted, but still. It's very clear that the Lakers weren't looking for BPA strictly, but that the emphasis was to address their 29th-ranked three point shooting.
The guy I really liked best was Isaac Bonga. Dude ranked 25th in my mock and we got him at 39th. Dude is only a shade over 18 years old right now but is a very tough dude, drawing a ton of fouls despite having a skinny frame, and having excellent court vision and steal power. He's also got stealth shooting potential--dude shot 92% on free throws in the BBL on a high volume of attempts, and 90% in another league. Sure, not much long-range shooting or gravity, but given his age, there's a lot of potential there. A swiss knife with shades of shooting ability.
Wagner is kind of interesting, what with a 6'11" willing three point shooter who actually has stealing power. That's kind of interesting. IMO on a statistical basis he was always more of a 35-40 range pick (either last year or this year), but you hear all those stories about his heart, desire and tenacity so he has a greater chance of reaching his potential than some of those A+ draft guys I mentioned above. I thought he was a better shooter last year than this year (he's always been a robust three point shooter, but what is up with that 69% free throw shooting?). People say he can pass and handle but his assist/assist'd rates were in the dark red this year. He really improved his dboarding this year though, but he's not a shotblocker at all. Interesting, but there are definitely quite a few in-game concerns IMO. I think he's a better defender than one would think with the steal power, and his dunk rate is merely subpar rather than a complete stiff, but on the offensive end I'm not sold on his ball skills, and his shooting might be a tad overstated.
I'm not really a believer in Svi Mykhailuk. He ranked 55th and we picked up 10 spots above that. Dude can shoot and is really willing to launch from deep, and like Nick Young for a weeelll preferred shooter he has some stealth hops. The problem is, he started off with a skinny frame and his refusal to draw contact or even get to the rim still exists, and he offers zilch in other toughness cats like dboarding and shotblocking. Those t-rex arms are legendary, but he is tall and has some hops, so maybe there's slight belief that they can counteract (but his lack of toughness metrics really don't bode well for him here either). Mostly he's just a shooter, and I'm not even sure if the stealth hops will show up in the NBA level. I think he's the sort of dude who looks good Sasha Vujacic-ing it up in practice settings but will really struggle on the court. But again, premium on shooting and all that.
Malik Newman seems very throwaway to me. Again, the emphasis on the shooting--with the exception of Bonga three of these four guys are known for their shooting well above anything else. Newman ranked 80th in 126 available prospects I analyzed and the dude can definitely shoot with gravity, and also dboard from the wing position--but that's it. Really bad vision and handles--no ball skills at all, bad at playing physical at-rim, subpar stealer and shotblocker. Dude's upside is Luther Head, and that's just not interesting. |
Good takes all around, thanks.
Mo's selling point really are the steals. Is that more indicative of his on floor IQ than his anemic passing numbers? It'll be interesting to see.
I would've loved a Williams, Melton, KBD or Hervey draft. What did your models think of undrafted Kenrich Williams?
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Lakers got two high iq, dead eye shooters who may contribute immediately and a very cheap shot an an all upside prospect. Good two way deal too. I give it a b+ as a floor. |
C+ from me.
I graded last year's draft a B+ and it turned out to be an A, so hopefully this year's group also performs up a grade. |
C+ for me also. I can get behind Wagner (I didn't want Robert Williams, though I preferred other players at 25), and certainly Svi at 47 is fine. Just didn't like the Bonga pick, which brings down the overall grade for me. But hey, maybe it will be used in a separate transaction somehow, or maybe he'll be good in a couple of years when he's like 26-27, and I'll eat my words. |
I like the Bonga uside play and am lower on Wagner, but arrive atthe same end point.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| MIMLaker wrote: | I know we have one of the best scouting staffs in the business... but this is a disappointing draft.
With the depth of this draft - really good going into the 30s, diamonds in the rough past 40, we should’ve gotten 2 solid rotation guys.
Wagner should’ve been our worst pick - and honestly he may be our best one.
What happened to getting multi-skilled guys like last year? This looks like a Triangle-era draft - shooters who don’t contribute heavily in any other stat and will get blown off the floor on D.
Would’ve much rather have picked Shamet at 25 or any of the 4 or 5 other decent PGs still left on the board. Or any of the decent 3 and D SFs out there at 39.
Shoot, even the mostly 3 and D guys with athleticism like Melton or Vanderbilt would’ve been preferable to Bonga or Svi.
If they wanted an outside shooting big so bad they could’ve picked Welsh out
Of UCLA at 47 and gotten a terrific multi skilled shooter like Brunson or Shamet or Milton with 25 or 39.
I hope the staff proves me colossally wrong... but with all the ready to contribute talent out there, I dwill it the no these were good value picks, or BPA/ potential trade asset picks at all.
PLEASE let me be wrong... |
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TheBlackMamba
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Lakers got two high iq, dead eye shooters who may contribute immediately and a very cheap shot an an all upside prospect. Good two way deal too. I give it a b+ as a floor. |
C+ from me.
I graded last year's draft a B+ and it turned out to be an A, so hopefully this year's group also performs up a grade. |
C+ for me also. I can get behind Wagner (I didn't want Robert Williams, though I preferred other players at 25), and certainly Svi at 47 is fine. Just didn't like the Bonga pick, which brings down the overall grade for me. But hey, maybe it will be used in a separate transaction somehow, or maybe he'll be good in a couple of years when he's like 26-27, and I'll eat my words. |
Heard LA was very impressed with his tools. |
I promise you that I would love to be wrong about Bonga. And, obviously, I very well could be. |
If not Williams, then who did you prefer at #25? Just curious... |
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LakerMindLA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| TheBlackMamba wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Lakers got two high iq, dead eye shooters who may contribute immediately and a very cheap shot an an all upside prospect. Good two way deal too. I give it a b+ as a floor. |
C+ from me.
I graded last year's draft a B+ and it turned out to be an A, so hopefully this year's group also performs up a grade. |
C+ for me also. I can get behind Wagner (I didn't want Robert Williams, though I preferred other players at 25), and certainly Svi at 47 is fine. Just didn't like the Bonga pick, which brings down the overall grade for me. But hey, maybe it will be used in a separate transaction somehow, or maybe he'll be good in a couple of years when he's like 26-27, and I'll eat my words. |
Heard LA was very impressed with his tools. |
I promise you that I would love to be wrong about Bonga. And, obviously, I very well could be. |
If not Williams, then who did you prefer at #25? Just curious... |
A future 1st round pick & 900k extra in cap-space..... |
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Lucky_Shot
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | MIMLaker wrote: | I know we have one of the best scouting staffs in the business... but this is a disappointing draft.
With the depth of this draft - really good going into the 30s, diamonds in the rough past 40, we should’ve gotten 2 solid rotation guys.
Wagner should’ve been our worst pick - and honestly he may be our best one.
What happened to getting multi-skilled guys like last year? This looks like a Triangle-era draft - shooters who don’t contribute heavily in any other stat and will get blown off the floor on D.
Would’ve much rather have picked Shamet at 25 or any of the 4 or 5 other decent PGs still left on the board. Or any of the decent 3 and D SFs out there at 39.
Shoot, even the mostly 3 and D guys with athleticism like Melton or Vanderbilt would’ve been preferable to Bonga or Svi.
If they wanted an outside shooting big so bad they could’ve picked Welsh out
Of UCLA at 47 and gotten a terrific multi skilled shooter like Brunson or Shamet or Milton with 25 or 39.
I hope the staff proves me colossally wrong... but with all the ready to contribute talent out there, I dwill it the no these were good value picks, or BPA/ potential trade asset picks at all.
PLEASE let me be wrong... |
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Don't worry you're probably wrong, I trust the Lakers' FO |
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epak
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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I mean, LeBron said he wanted high IQ guys.  |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Lucky_Shot wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | MIMLaker wrote: | I know we have one of the best scouting staffs in the business... but this is a disappointing draft.
With the depth of this draft - really good going into the 30s, diamonds in the rough past 40, we should’ve gotten 2 solid rotation guys.
Wagner should’ve been our worst pick - and honestly he may be our best one.
What happened to getting multi-skilled guys like last year? This looks like a Triangle-era draft - shooters who don’t contribute heavily in any other stat and will get blown off the floor on D.
Would’ve much rather have picked Shamet at 25 or any of the 4 or 5 other decent PGs still left on the board. Or any of the decent 3 and D SFs out there at 39.
Shoot, even the mostly 3 and D guys with athleticism like Melton or Vanderbilt would’ve been preferable to Bonga or Svi.
If they wanted an outside shooting big so bad they could’ve picked Welsh out
Of UCLA at 47 and gotten a terrific multi skilled shooter like Brunson or Shamet or Milton with 25 or 39.
I hope the staff proves me colossally wrong... but with all the ready to contribute talent out there, I dwill it the no these were good value picks, or BPA/ potential trade asset picks at all.
PLEASE let me be wrong... |
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Don't worry you're probably wrong, I trust the Lakers' FO |
I also trust the Celtics and Warriors front offices.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | I mean, LeBron said he wanted high IQ guys. |
Are they high IQ because they're white?
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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I think the Lakers got guys they think can contribute right away and fit the stars they expect to get. This isn’t a team that needs a bunch of risk reward projects given their existing assets and their plan.
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epak
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | epak wrote: | | I mean, LeBron said he wanted high IQ guys. |
Are they high IQ because they're white? |
no, cuz they're german? |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting note on Wagner: rare guy whose numbers did not decline against power 5 competition, to go along with coming up big in the tournament
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | I think the Lakers got guys they think can contribute right away and fit the stars they expect to get. This isn’t a team that needs a bunch of risk reward projects given their existing assets and their plan. |
Williams, Shamet, and Evans are immediate contributors and I'd bet on 2 out of the 3 being better than Wagner.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Cranjis likes Svi as a defender. A lot.
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Trevor Lane
Verified account @Trevor_Lane
4h4 hours ago
So Moe Wagner had the same lane agility time as De'Anthony Melton...and then was slightly FASTER than Melton in the shuttle run and three-quarter court sprint. Didn't expect that. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | I think the Lakers got guys they think can contribute right away and fit the stars they expect to get. This isn’t a team that needs a bunch of risk reward projects given their existing assets and their plan. |
Williams, Shamet, and Evans are immediate contributors and I'd bet on 2 out of the 3 being better than Wagner. |
Lakers actually had Wagner a lot higher than their pick fwiw. This is one it seems everyone in house was high on, scouts to coaches to top brass. Really really good at several things they like to do. Pick and roll/pop monster.
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Ziggy
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | I think the Lakers got guys they think can contribute right away and fit the stars they expect to get. This isn’t a team that needs a bunch of risk reward projects given their existing assets and their plan. |
Exactly what I've been saying. If they know Lebron is coming, then getting a high IQ, stretch big on a cost controlled contract for the next 4 years could be a valuable piece on a championship team. Svi can just park himself in the corner, and Wagner can play pick n pop with LeBronzo. We were 29th out of 30 teams in 3-point shooting. Had to address that and they did. |
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epak
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | Trevor Lane
Verified account @Trevor_Lane
4h4 hours ago
So Moe Wagner had the same lane agility time as De'Anthony Melton...and then was slightly FASTER than Melton in the shuttle run and three-quarter court sprint. Didn't expect that. |
Did he improve his body after the season (before the combine)? |
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | Trevor Lane
Verified account @Trevor_Lane
4h4 hours ago
So Moe Wagner had the same lane agility time as De'Anthony Melton...and then was slightly FASTER than Melton in the shuttle run and three-quarter court sprint. Didn't expect that. |
Did he improve his body after the season (before the combine)? |
Don't know... just reading Twitter feeds. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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It’s a little conservative, while buying a pick to take a shot. Lakers don’t need projects.
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Cranjis likes Svi as a defender. A lot. |
Yeah I noticed that. From his tweets...
Early Svi defensive notes:
- Closes out v well
- He's exactly where you want him positionally like 95% of the time
- Tags roll men & recovers well
- I'm seeing him do a lot of talking & pointing to switch
- Defends w/feet, doesn't commit dumb fouls on drives
- Hops around on D
Cranjis McBasketball
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Cranjis McBasketball Retweeted Cranjis McBasketball
Conclusion: Svi definitely won’t be a big defensive liability |
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dino
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| what is an exhibit 10 deal? |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | I think the Lakers got guys they think can contribute right away and fit the stars they expect to get. This isn’t a team that needs a bunch of risk reward projects given their existing assets and their plan. |
Williams, Shamet, and Evans are immediate contributors and I'd bet on 2 out of the 3 being better than Wagner. |
Lakers actually had Wagner a lot higher than their pick fwiw. This is one it seems everyone in house was high on, scouts to coaches to top brass. Really really good at several things they like to do. Pick and roll/pop monster. |
Concerning career FT shooting, tunnel vision on drives, near zero as a passer, only rebounded well for one season, highly questionable as a switch defender, zero rim protection and weak defending the post - I think they really reached for frontcourt guard skill and would've been better off waiting for Wagner to be available at #39 or going for one of KBD/Hervey at #47. It's just concerning they rated Wagner even higher than #25, tbh.
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