I think people are mistaking activity for achievement here. This is also EXACTLY why people who are fairly die-hard about the draft, don't really pay attention to tournament games.
Just because it gets incredible exposure, doesn't mean is great work, let alone consistent. It was just last year that D.J. Wilson just had "solid" games in the tournament and was perceived as the ideal archetype and ended up drafted in the 1st round because he rode that draft hype.
So much hype, he was drafted #17.
He's played a total of 71 minutes for the entire season.
Now we're looking at Moritz Wagner who had a 24/15 game against a team that only had 1 center that was basically D. II or D III level. In fact, that box score reflects just how poorly Wagner's defense was in the paint.
Because really, there's no world where Krutwig should ever be getting 17 points against Wagner, on 7 of 11 shooting. None of his shots were outside of 15', almost all of it were in the paint, and Wagner practically gave up to Krutwig every time he got position.
Don't get me wrong. Loyola executed at a ridiculously high level throughout the tournament, but they're absolutely maximizing all the talent they have and limited their mistakes. That takes a team FAR.
That doesn't mean that Wagner will ever face competition that easy, ever again, especially next level.
Now to make it a bit more blunt.
Wagner can't defend in space. Got lit up by both guys of Villanova after a slow shooting start by them.
Wagner had issues against a strong player, not an NBA level athlete.
So, what can he do on the defensive end next level?
*chef's kiss*
I agree with Mike's analysis the majority of the time and it is pretty spot on for the current version of the prospect. However there should be consideration for future development be it physically and skills as part of the total analysis.
Yes that is hard to project but most NBA players improve once in the league otherwise they will be out sooner than later.
Does the prospect have the foundation to build upon (physically, mentally, work ethic)? These are the traits that should also be considered and not just his current skill set.
From watching his videos and listening to him talk I believe Mo Wagner possesses these personal traits.
I think people are mistaking activity for achievement here. This is also EXACTLY why people who are fairly die-hard about the draft, don't really pay attention to tournament games.
Just because it gets incredible exposure, doesn't mean is great work, let alone consistent. It was just last year that D.J. Wilson just had "solid" games in the tournament and was perceived as the ideal archetype and ended up drafted in the 1st round because he rode that draft hype.
So much hype, he was drafted #17.
He's played a total of 71 minutes for the entire season.
Now we're looking at Moritz Wagner who had a 24/15 game against a team that only had 1 center that was basically D. II or D III level. In fact, that box score reflects just how poorly Wagner's defense was in the paint.
Because really, there's no world where Krutwig should ever be getting 17 points against Wagner, on 7 of 11 shooting. None of his shots were outside of 15', almost all of it were in the paint, and Wagner practically gave up to Krutwig every time he got position.
Don't get me wrong. Loyola executed at a ridiculously high level throughout the tournament, but they're absolutely maximizing all the talent they have and limited their mistakes. That takes a team FAR.
That doesn't mean that Wagner will ever face competition that easy, ever again, especially next level.
Now to make it a bit more blunt.
Wagner can't defend in space. Got lit up by both guys of Villanova after a slow shooting start by them.
Wagner had issues against a strong player, not an NBA level athlete.
So, what can he do on the defensive end next level?
*chef's kiss*
I agree with Mike's analysis the majority of the time and it is pretty spot on for the current version of the prospect. However there should be consideration for future development be it physically and skills as part of the total analysis.
Yes that is hard to project but most NBA players improve once in the league otherwise they will be out sooner than later.
Does the prospect have the foundation to build upon (physically, mentally, work ethic)? These are the traits that should also be considered and not just his current skill set.
From watching his videos and listening to him talk I believe Mo Wagner possesses these personal traits.
Mo took a huge step from a sophomore to a junior. He has a lot of room to improve. His skills and his body _________________ Previously LBJ23
The Lakers passed on someone with elite defensive potential for a guy who has role player offensive potential with their first pick. I guess the disappointment for me is deal the pick at that point. I love both second rounders though and in my opinion ion the two way contract with Newman would have been someone who they could have grabbed at 39 and I’d still have been happy. So in the 2nd round and FA I grade the draft an A. I just don’t like the Moe pick because it was cautious when they could have rolled the dice on Williams.
They passed on BPA to draft Slava Medvedenko 2.0 and Kareem Rush 2.0 .
They passed on BAA best athlete available & chose the BBPA best basketball players available.
DeAndre Jordan is cool n stuff - he can do a lot of athletic things on a team full of shooters. We are not a team full of shooters. Our new rooks potentially help here....
Lanes are open for Lonzo, Kuz, BI, & Randle to do some work. Not to mention potentially getting Lebron, PG and KL.
(BTW I liked Slava & Rush) However both players drafted have already accomplished much more than either player before entering the NBA.
Joined: 17 May 2006 Posts: 7428 Location: Making the games you play
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:10 pm Post subject:
I feel like every year huge chunks of LG fall in love with super athletic late first/early 2nd round prospects, get pissed that the Lakers pass on them, and then completely forget they exist once they wash out.
Like, I think Mo was a reach, but he clearly fits a need on 29th ranked 3 point shooting team considering so much of our offense is predicated on shooting.
Look I wanted Melton and Robinson out of this draft I wanted to shoot for the moon with athletic ability but they obviously said we need shooters. We got the best pick and pop big in college basketball and the 2nd best spot up shooter in college. They obviously said we need shooting and went out and got it. Will they ever be more then role players who knows but even if we don't get the big names in free agency I have felt like your doing Lonzo a disservice without may shooters around him anyways. But if we do get the big names these shooters are going to become more vital then ever and probably will be a welcome sight when they are knocking down open shots
Last edited by vicman on Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
They passed on BPA to draft Slava Medvedenko 2.0 and Kareem Rush 2.0 .
Wagner is more similar to Brian Cook. And Svi is more like Sasha Vujacic. All of them are just known to be shooters. However, I think Wagner and Svi will be much better fits on the team than those other slugs just because they both seem to have much higher basketball IQ and better physical development than those two. But that's not saying too much since their ceilings are going to be very limited.
The one issue I had with Robert Williams was his drop in FT% this past season.
From 59 to 47%.
For me this indicates he did not put in the work during the off season which is a red flag. If he did put the work in then he is just a terrible shooter and would be an offensive liability.
My one complaint is it feels like we could have gotten Wagner at 39. Or, if you're worried about it, combine 47 and 39 to move up. Can they really be that much in love with Isaac Bonga?
For the first time in memory, the Lakers can't do the "we couldn't believe he was still there at our pick."
So now that the book on the Steve Nash and Dwight Howard trades are complete, the end result actually does hurt the Lakers a bit. They ended up losing on a chance to get a guy in Zhaire Smith that they were reportedly high on as well as having that 2021 Heat first rounder. Oh well, not all gambles pay off. Luckily it didn't hurt the Lakers worse than it could have.
Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 18222 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:01 pm Post subject:
LAkers 4 Life wrote:
So now that the book on the Steve Nash and Dwight Howard trades are complete, the end result actually does hurt the Lakers a bit. They ended up losing on a chance to get a guy in Zhaire Smith that they were reportedly high on as well as having that 2021 Heat first rounder. Oh well, not all gambles pay off. Luckily it didn't hurt the Lakers worse than it could have.
If we go after Kawhi this summer I expect we'll be back in draft pick debt again. _________________ "Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:02 pm Post subject:
vicman wrote:
Look I wanted Melton and Robinson out of this draft I wanted to shoot for the moon with athletic ability but they obviously said we need shooters. We got the best pick and pop big in college basketball and the 2nd best spot up shooter in college. They obviously said we need shooting and went out and got it. Will they ever be more then role players who knows but even if we don't get the big names in free agency I have felt like your doing Lonzo a disservice without may shooters around him anyways. But if we do get the big names these shooters are going to become more vital then ever and probably will be a welcome sight when they are knocking down open shots
Yup, this is what happened. The FO drafted for need vs. BPA. Time will tell how this works out.
Shooting is nice, but players won't stay on the floor if they can't defend. Hence the need for 3 AND D. Not just 3.
Hopefully Moe can provide enough D to stay on the floor. Seems like he puts in effort on that end at least. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss
My one complaint is it feels like we could have gotten Wagner at 39. Or, if you're worried about it, combine 47 and 39 to move up. Can they really be that much in love with Isaac Bonga?
For the first time in memory, the Lakers can't do the "we couldn't believe he was still there at our pick."
I don't think 39 and 47 would have been enough to move up for him.
I believe that Boston would have taken him at 27 if we passed on him because they needed a big.
I believe that Boston would have taken him at 27 if we passed on him because they needed a big.
Search for "Mo Wagner Boston" on Twitter and a few of their blog boys & media insiders were chomping at the bit to get him. Of course once they got the other big, they were "steal of the draft!" but there was vocal support for Wagner to Boston.
I believe that Boston would have taken him at 27 if we passed on him because they needed a big.
Search for "Mo Wagner Boston" on Twitter and a few of their blog boys & media insiders were chomping at the bit to get him. Of course once they got the other big, they were "steal of the draft!" but there was vocal support for Wagner to Boston.
How was the reaction of Grayson going to Utah? I bet everyone is calling it a good move but if he went to LA ... he would be described as a “softie who won’t add anything to the team”.
I was a little surprised to see Wagner selected. Looks a little heavy-footed, awkward. I'd thought the Lakers had a finer array of big man talent on hand compared to what they appeared to have in small guys (under 6'7"). I assumed a small guy was being sought.
Be it far from me to understand the club's preferences for risk in the free agent market, let alone the tactical nuances of managing cap space with regard to keeping Randle, hanging on to Bryant and Zubac, or bringing Brook back for an encore campaign.
Oh well, I'm in wait-and-see mode with this pick. Just how agile this kid really can be is yet to be seen - I guess.
I think people are mistaking activity for achievement here. This is also EXACTLY why people who are fairly die-hard about the draft, don't really pay attention to tournament games.
Just because it gets incredible exposure, doesn't mean is great work, let alone consistent. It was just last year that D.J. Wilson just had "solid" games in the tournament and was perceived as the ideal archetype and ended up drafted in the 1st round because he rode that draft hype.
So much hype, he was drafted #17.
He's played a total of 71 minutes for the entire season.
Now we're looking at Moritz Wagner who had a 24/15 game against a team that only had 1 center that was basically D. II or D III level. In fact, that box score reflects just how poorly Wagner's defense was in the paint.
Because really, there's no world where Krutwig should ever be getting 17 points against Wagner, on 7 of 11 shooting. None of his shots were outside of 15', almost all of it were in the paint, and Wagner practically gave up to Krutwig every time he got position.
Don't get me wrong. Loyola executed at a ridiculously high level throughout the tournament, but they're absolutely maximizing all the talent they have and limited their mistakes. That takes a team FAR.
That doesn't mean that Wagner will ever face competition that easy, ever again, especially next level.
Now to make it a bit more blunt.
Wagner can't defend in space. Got lit up by both guys of Villanova after a slow shooting start by them.
Wagner had issues against a strong player, not an NBA level athlete.
So, what can he do on the defensive end next level?
*chef's kiss*
I agree with Mike's analysis the majority of the time and it is pretty spot on for the current version of the prospect. However there should be consideration for future development be it physically and skills as part of the total analysis.
Yes that is hard to project but most NBA players improve once in the league otherwise they will be out sooner than later.
Does the prospect have the foundation to build upon (physically, mentally, work ethic)? These are the traits that should also be considered and not just his current skill set.
From watching his videos and listening to him talk I believe Mo Wagner possesses these personal traits.
Mo took a huge step from a sophomore to a junior. He has a lot of room to improve. His skills and his body
I just tweeted something about this, this morning.
You can teach a player to shoot in a relatively short amount of time.
But high end athletes like Capela and Randle took 3-4 years to develop their high-end level of perimeter switching.
At what point do you think Wagner can get to that point? If, ever? _________________ Resident Car Nut.
I think people are mistaking activity for achievement here. This is also EXACTLY why people who are fairly die-hard about the draft, don't really pay attention to tournament games.
Just because it gets incredible exposure, doesn't mean is great work, let alone consistent. It was just last year that D.J. Wilson just had "solid" games in the tournament and was perceived as the ideal archetype and ended up drafted in the 1st round because he rode that draft hype.
So much hype, he was drafted #17.
He's played a total of 71 minutes for the entire season.
Now we're looking at Moritz Wagner who had a 24/15 game against a team that only had 1 center that was basically D. II or D III level. In fact, that box score reflects just how poorly Wagner's defense was in the paint.
Because really, there's no world where Krutwig should ever be getting 17 points against Wagner, on 7 of 11 shooting. None of his shots were outside of 15', almost all of it were in the paint, and Wagner practically gave up to Krutwig every time he got position.
Don't get me wrong. Loyola executed at a ridiculously high level throughout the tournament, but they're absolutely maximizing all the talent they have and limited their mistakes. That takes a team FAR.
That doesn't mean that Wagner will ever face competition that easy, ever again, especially next level.
Now to make it a bit more blunt.
Wagner can't defend in space. Got lit up by both guys of Villanova after a slow shooting start by them.
Wagner had issues against a strong player, not an NBA level athlete.
So, what can he do on the defensive end next level?
*chef's kiss*
I agree with Mike's analysis the majority of the time and it is pretty spot on for the current version of the prospect. However there should be consideration for future development be it physically and skills as part of the total analysis.
Yes that is hard to project but most NBA players improve once in the league otherwise they will be out sooner than later.
Does the prospect have the foundation to build upon (physically, mentally, work ethic)? These are the traits that should also be considered and not just his current skill set.
From watching his videos and listening to him talk I believe Mo Wagner possesses these personal traits.
Mo took a huge step from a sophomore to a junior. He has a lot of room to improve. His skills and his body
I just tweeted something about this, this morning.
You can teach a player to shoot in a relatively short amount of time.
But high end athletes like Capela and Randle took 3-4 years to develop their high-end level of perimeter switching.
At what point do you think Wagner can get to that point? If, ever?
I don't really know. Just hopeful. Lol. His sprint numbers and lane agility numbers were about the same or some even better than Randle, so I think the feet are there to work with.
What do you think? Can he get there? _________________ Previously LBJ23
Ryan Kelly wasn't nearly as athletic or have the offensive skill set like Mo
I see that differently. Wagner hasn't been injured in ways that Kelly was consistently. Kelly as a college player was quite athletic and had good length. He was able to defend many perimeter players in college; I didn't see much of that from Wagner this Spring.
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