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Bard207 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013 Posts: 7713
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | It blows me away that Ryan McDonough traded away the Lakers pick from the Steve Nash trade to acquire and overpay Brandon Knight, and then traded for that same pick last night by moving Zhaire Smith and the Heat's 2021 unprotected 1st, which could end up even more valuable than the Lakers pick. And both trades were to Philly.
So McDonough could've had Mikal Bridges and Zhaire Smith last night plus kept the Heat's 2021 1st. And they wouldn't owe $30M to Knight for the next two years. Brett Brown straight up Hinkie'd McDonough. |
I have McDonough and Vlade in a group of FO executives as candidates that could be replaced in the next year. Connelly (Denver) and Wallace( Memphis) are some other FO executives that need to get things together soon. Ujiri (Toronto) is a maybe. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | The man is faster than Randle and probably faster than Capela though I couldn't find any combine times for him.
He seems to have quick hands and hustle.
I think the argument about a weak base makes sense... he doesn't have that sheer power of Lopez in his legs and core... but when I see a near seven footer run like a wing to save a ball from going out of bounds... I don't see why he can't become a good defender eventually. |
I don't think the workout times translate to the court as directly as other players. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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non-player zealot Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 21365
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | RCS926 wrote: | LongBeachPoly wrote: | How do you properly pronounce his name?
Wagner or Vagner? |
I believe it's the latter. |
All the German Americans who came here call themselves Wagner like wag the dog... but OG Germans will always say Vagner.
So since he's born over there he will say the German pronunciation.
Maybe his kids will say "Wag"ner or his grandchildren if he ends up settling here. |
Richard Wagner. In Germany, Reekard Vogner. In America: Hi, Richard Wagner, nice to meet you... _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX! |
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hydrohead Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 4107 Location: Space City
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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70sdude wrote: | I was a little surprised to see Wagner selected. Looks a little heavy-footed, awkward. I'd thought the Lakers had a finer array of big man talent on hand compared to what they appeared to have in small guys (under 6'7"). I assumed a small guy was being sought.
Be it far from me to understand the club's preferences for risk in the free agent market, let alone the tactical nuances of managing cap space with regard to keeping Randle, hanging on to Bryant and Zubac, or bringing Brook back for an encore campaign.
Oh well, I'm in wait-and-see mode with this pick. Just how agile this kid really can be is yet to be seen - I guess. |
Don't see this kid as heavy footed. In fact, he was impressive in the combine
https://twitter.com/DefPenHoops/status/997598256069832705/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diehardsport.com%2Fnba%2Fmoe-wanger-flying-up-draft-boards-after-putting-up-impressive-combine-numbers%2F
He never be a shot blocker, but the best we can hope is active switching on defense with some strength through Gunner's plan so he can keep a body on the better centers in the league. |
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non-player zealot Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 21365
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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LAkers 4 Life wrote: | JUST-MING wrote: | They passed on BPA to draft Slava Medvedenko 2.0 and Kareem Rush 2.0 . |
Wagner is more similar to Brian Cook. And Svi is more like Sasha Vujacic. All of them are just known to be shooters. However, I think Wagner and Svi will be much better fits on the team than those other slugs just because they both seem to have much higher basketball IQ and better physical development than those two. But that's not saying too much since their ceilings are going to be very limited. |
R Kelly, Puppy Crap, Slava, Rush, and the Sh Machine -- guy who used to adjust his eyebrows at the FT line and cried on bench when yelled at? I'm gonna go out on a limb early and say those are all pessimistic estimates. You have to be truly cursed to be the kind of garbage named in that list. Merely reminding me of Sasha Vujacic makes me wanna self-harm. Gonna look for a razor blade. From all appearances, Svi portrays himself a man. That alone Sasha had a hard time doing. He borrowed Maria's hair bands. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX! |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Wagner isn't Cook.
Svi isn't Sasha.
But there is a strong connection with this draft. Did we pass up athletic guards for those guys? Yep. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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non-player zealot Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 21365
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hydrohead Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 4107 Location: Space City
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for chiming in Mike [AT] LG. |
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non-player zealot Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 21365
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | Wagner isn't Cook.
Svi isn't Sasha.
But there is a strong connection with this draft. Did we pass up athletic guards for those guys? Yep. |
I think Jesse, Magic and Pelinka (he espec) have some vague definition of character and personality that they're keying on. If so, I'd like to know what they like in players (3-4 year guys? and/or guys from established hoops schools and/or "winners" -- players with a lot of Tourney games under their belts that more upside/BPA inclined FOs may not put as much stock into?). They only have 2 drafts under their belts, but I wonder if they'll ever be risk takers. With the backdrop of an absolutely feckless roster of shooters that may soon field Brawn and/or PG, it would also seem like they do want safe picks who they also assume can stretch the floor. Hard to quite figure them out for sure being that the team still could use shooting as much as defense.
Svi looks pretty smooth. It would be nice to have a reputed shooter since Byron Scott who actually lives up to the title. I would gladly take him as a pick if that were the case just as a refreshing change of pace. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX! |
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Annihilator Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2001 Posts: 4035
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | Wagner isn't Cook.
Svi isn't Sasha.
But there is a strong connection with this draft. Did we pass up athletic guards for those guys? Yep. |
Has it become clear why the Lakers chose to go this route this year? Is it that this year they decided to really emphasize shooting? _________________ “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
--Anonymous |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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The interviews with Walton and Pelinka emphasize shooting and intangibles. It gave me the impression of drafting for fit rather than BPA; and the Lakers had both in all of their prospects last year.
But, they really love having great personalities in the locker room while taking basketball seriously. That goes for all of the guys last season too. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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I am not the biggest fan of teams using their Two-Way Contracts before Summer League. It seems like many teams have used them as a tool to encourage UDFA's to sign, and I get that......but I like guys playing for those slots in Summer League. I feel like it kind of takes away a huge reward for guys in SL that know there is not likely a full roster slot available.
They are not being given out to only the guys some may expect....I learned a few hours ago that Daxter Miles Jr. (WVU) agreed to a 2 Way contract with Kings. My guess is most people expected it to be a long shot for Dax to be able to earn one of those deals. If I was king and making the rules....I would limit all 2 Way contracts to 1 year at a time, and they could only be signed once Summer League has concluded. |
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lukewaltonsdad Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2014 Posts: 2983
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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I was surprised by the picks, but I do like who we drafted. Both guys can have one very good to great skill: they can shoot.
There was definitely strategy and a purpose behind the picks... |
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DK Star Player
Joined: 03 Jul 2006 Posts: 1627 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | The interviews with Walton and Pelinka emphasize shooting and intangibles. It gave me the impression of drafting for fit rather than BPA; and the Lakers had both in all of their prospects last year.
But, they really love having great personalities in the locker room while taking basketball seriously. That goes for all of the guys last season too. |
I think the subtlety here might be yes a philosophical thought that BPA to the front office means guys they trust to max out via hard work and culture fit to more likely hit a ceiling, albeit a lower ceiling than a guy like Robert Williams but with a higher variance due to character concerns. Basically maybe this FO thinks of this as an EV model over a strict upside/floor range dichotomy. _________________ 0.4 |
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vicman Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 2379 Location: Arcadia
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | The interviews with Walton and Pelinka emphasize shooting and intangibles. It gave me the impression of drafting for fit rather than BPA; and the Lakers had both in all of their prospects last year.
But, they really love having great personalities in the locker room while taking basketball seriously. That goes for all of the guys last season too. |
I think they absolutely drafted for guys that fit with the perceived roster we will have. I do think these guys help Lonzo too so many times he hit guys got them great shots and they didn't knock them down. I agree with the fact that we needed shooting just hope they can play some defense. I mean people seem to like bonga but I just wonder if melton was the pick at 39 are people really unhappy about this draft? I think the mood here would be way different if it was melton and 2 shooter. I am hoping bonga comes over and we get a look at him as early as summer league would be nice |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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DK wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | The interviews with Walton and Pelinka emphasize shooting and intangibles. It gave me the impression of drafting for fit rather than BPA; and the Lakers had both in all of their prospects last year.
But, they really love having great personalities in the locker room while taking basketball seriously. That goes for all of the guys last season too. |
I think the subtlety here might be yes a philosophical thought that BPA to the front office means guys they trust to max out via hard work and culture fit to more likely hit a ceiling, albeit a lower ceiling than a guy like Robert Williams but with a higher variance due to character concerns. Basically maybe this FO thinks of this as an EV model over a strict upside/floor range dichotomy. |
Putting an emphasis on culture and hardwork, I definitely don't have a problem with.
My concern is, there are other possible BPA types that fit that framework too, and were passed up. I question Robert Williams too, so I didn't care for him. But at least 10 other guys fit this kind of intangible description and bring an NBA level skill next level too, and some with tertiary skill. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I just wonder if melton was the pick at 39 are people really unhappy about this draft? I think the mood here would be way different if it was melton and 2 shooter. I am hoping bonga comes over and we get a look at him as early as summer league would be nice |
It's not, "just Melton."
The Lakers could still say pretty much the exact statements post draft, IMHO, if they drafted Jalen Brunson or Landry Shamet.
We're really happy about the pick..
They really provide shooting at the next level...
We like guys who know how to play...
But I guess neither guy had the "energy" that they're looking for in the locker room? _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans.
Last edited by Mike@LG on Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46490
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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Here’s something to cheer you guys up: The guy most of you guys wanted DiVincenzo... didn’t make Bucks fan happy when the Bucks drafted him, so there will always be doubters no matter who the guy is. |
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justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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39 feels like the missed opportunity pick. _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | Here’s something to cheer you guys up: The guy most of you guys wanted DiVincenzo... didn’t make Bucks fan happy when the Bucks drafted him, so there will always be doubters no matter who the guy is. |
Yeah they missed Huerter and Hutchison.
They still got a dude that could shoot and defend. I don't see what the issue is. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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justsomelakerfan wrote: | 39 feels like the missed opportunity pick. |
Forget order. If you told me before the draft that LA gets away with Melton or Vanderbilt with Wagner and Svi? I would have been pretty happy. _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46490
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | Here’s something to cheer you guys up: The guy most of you guys wanted DiVincenzo... didn’t make Bucks fan happy when the Bucks drafted him, so there will always be doubters no matter who the guy is. |
Yeah they missed Huerter and Hutchison.
They still got a dude that could shoot and defend. I don't see what the issue is. |
They didn’t think he was the best player Available just like Laker fans didn’t think Wagner was the best player available... that means both fan bases need to give there guy a chance to prove himself.
Last edited by Inspector Gadget on Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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justsomelakerfan wrote: | justsomelakerfan wrote: | 39 feels like the missed opportunity pick. |
Forget order. If you told me before the draft that LA gets away with Melton or Vanderbilt with Wagner and Svi? I would have been pretty happy. |
Melton, Vanderbilt, Brunson, Carter, Shamet, Evans, Okobo, Frazier. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | Here’s something to cheer you guys up: The guy most of you guys wanted DiVincenzo... didn’t make Bucks fan happy when the Bucks drafted him, so there will always be doubters no matter who the guy is. |
Yeah they missed Huerter and Hutchison.
They still got a dude that could shoot and defend. I don't see what the issue is. |
They didn’t think he was the best player Available just like Laker fans didn’t think Wagner was the best player available... that means both fan bases need to give there guy a chance to prove himself. |
I think if you had a list of guys that you want at that pick, he's the Top 3-5.
I think Wagner is easily there at 39. How long is the list for the Lakers?
They had several seasons to prove themselves just to get to the draft too. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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€H£M£$TR¥ Star Player
Joined: 03 Apr 2017 Posts: 3782
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | DK wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | The interviews with Walton and Pelinka emphasize shooting and intangibles. It gave me the impression of drafting for fit rather than BPA; and the Lakers had both in all of their prospects last year.
But, they really love having great personalities in the locker room while taking basketball seriously. That goes for all of the guys last season too. |
I think the subtlety here might be yes a philosophical thought that BPA to the front office means guys they trust to max out via hard work and culture fit to more likely hit a ceiling, albeit a lower ceiling than a guy like Robert Williams but with a higher variance due to character concerns. Basically maybe this FO thinks of this as an EV model over a strict upside/floor range dichotomy. |
Putting an emphasis on culture and hardwork, I definitely don't have a problem with.
My concern is, there are other possible BPA types that fit that framework too, and were passed up. I question Robert Williams too, so I didn't care for him. But at least 10 other guys fit this kind of intangible description and bring an NBA level skill next level too, and some with tertiary skill. |
To me, I think they wanted to see who has those intangibles but also guys who can take the big spotlight. The grand stage where it’s not only local fans but global fans watching. They needed guys that perform consistently under bright lights... tourney tested with the active red lighted camera pointed right at them. Can they not only sustain for regulation, but have what it takes to push into overtime... to be mentally tough enough to ignite their team to a 20 point comeback if neccessary, or hold their tounge when calls are missed, or when someone is playing mind games out there... it takes maturity to see that your opponent is doing all the time at the pro level, and to play it smart to beat them in every facet of the game. I think we have those guys... rooks that are not only aggressive but are super tough-to-intimidate into making too many rookie mistakes. We mitigate the learning curve, and hit the ground running to initiate momentum going into day 1. _________________ DEAR BASKETBALL |
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