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ChickenStu
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 Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Here’s something to cheer you guys up: The guy most of you guys wanted DiVincenzo... didn’t make Bucks fan happy when the Bucks drafted him, so there will always be doubters no matter who the guy is. |
Yeah they missed Huerter and Hutchison.
They still got a dude that could shoot and defend. I don't see what the issue is. |
They didn’t think he was the best player Available just like Laker fans didn’t think Wagner was the best player available... that means both fan bases need to give there guy a chance to prove himself. |
I think if you had a list of guys that you want at that pick, he's the Top 3-5.
I think Wagner is easily there at 39. How long is the list for the Lakers?
They had several seasons to prove themselves just to get to the draft too. |
I don't think Wagner would've been there at 39. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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I endorse all of Mike"s posts in this thread.
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Annihilator wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Wagner isn't Cook.
Svi isn't Sasha.
But there is a strong connection with this draft. Did we pass up athletic guards for those guys? Yep. |
Has it become clear why the Lakers chose to go this route this year? Is it that this year they decided to really emphasize shooting? |
Wagner is considerably more skilled offensively than Cook. Much better footwork in the paint with a variety of moves and use of either hand. Able to dribble drive and spin with body control. Don't remember ever seeing Cook showing these skills.
This draft was deep in shooters and shooting was a Laker weakness so it's logical they would address this in the draft. Wagner and Svi have a chance to be rotational players this year.
Yes there were a number of athletic guards taken after Wagner but most would probably have not seen much playing time this year. I am inclined to believe they will pick up a vet PG to backup Lonzo. |
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Cow
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Apologies, but I couldn’t find it clarified in the recent pages. What did Rob mean when he said he can’t talk about the 2nd round pick until July 6 moratorium is over?
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Here’s something to cheer you guys up: The guy most of you guys wanted DiVincenzo... didn’t make Bucks fan happy when the Bucks drafted him, so there will always be doubters no matter who the guy is. |
Yeah they missed Huerter and Hutchison.
They still got a dude that could shoot and defend. I don't see what the issue is. |
They didn’t think he was the best player Available just like Laker fans didn’t think Wagner was the best player available... that means both fan bases need to give there guy a chance to prove himself. |
I think if you had a list of guys that you want at that pick, he's the Top 3-5.
I think Wagner is easily there at 39. How long is the list for the Lakers?
They had several seasons to prove themselves just to get to the draft too. |
I don't think Wagner would've been there at 39. |
Agree. If GSW had taken him and I feel he fit perfectly there would we be lamenting about how they got another shooter? |
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | I am not the biggest fan of teams using their Two-Way Contracts before Summer League. It seems like many teams have used them as a tool to encourage UDFA's to sign, and I get that......but I like guys playing for those slots in Summer League. I feel like it kind of takes away a huge reward for guys in SL that know there is not likely a full roster slot available.
They are not being given out to only the guys some may expect....I learned a few hours ago that Daxter Miles Jr. (WVU) agreed to a 2 Way contract with Kings. My guess is most people expected it to be a long shot for Dax to be able to earn one of those deals. If I was king and making the rules....I would limit all 2 Way contracts to 1 year at a time, and they could only be signed once Summer League has concluded. |
This could be a double edged sword. If the player stands out in the SL then another team might poach him by signing to their regular roster.
If your scouting staff believes in that player than take the risk by signing him early. Not much lost if he doesn't pan out. |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | Wagner isn't Cook.
Svi isn't Sasha.
But there is a strong connection with this draft. Did we pass up athletic guards for those guys? Yep. |
Yep, he can't be Cook. Kuzma is Cook 2.0.
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Cow wrote: | | Apologies, but I couldn’t find it clarified in the recent pages. What did Rob mean when he said he can’t talk about the 2nd round pick until July 6 moratorium is over? |
This was from a post by DancingBarry.
Philly can’t take cash now that was part of the agreement. They will be able to in a couple weeks. Until then, he’s technically their player and we can’t talk about him. |
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epak
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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#39 is a mystery to me. If they need to stash a player, why not with the later pick. Hope the truth behind the trade comes out later.
#47 I was hoping for Milton as he has a higher ppp on spot ups than Svi. But perhaps Svi showed better team defense.
#25 could have gone some other ways, but I'm not upset over the pick.
At the same time, it wouldn't surprise me if we kept these guys, or if they're moved  |
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Cow
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | Cow wrote: | | Apologies, but I couldn’t find it clarified in the recent pages. What did Rob mean when he said he can’t talk about the 2nd round pick until July 6 moratorium is over? |
This was from a post by DancingBarry.
Philly can’t take cash now that was part of the agreement. They will be able to in a couple weeks. Until then, he’s technically their player and we can’t talk about him. |
Got it. I mistakenly thought that we officially drafted him (didn’t realize the league still recognized it as Philly’s pick) so I was confused. Makes sense now.
Thanks for clarifying/sharing DB’s post 👍🏼
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adkindo
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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I woke up this morning.....and it felt like one of those mornings where something bad happened the previous day, and you realize it was not just a bad dream. Yeah, I am not happy about our draft. I feel like the FO must see an entirely different NBA than the one I have watched evolve in recent years. The most valuable players/assets in the NBA are 2 Way perimeter players, and we finished the night adding zero....when we could have added 3 with that potential.
Wagner is a solid basketball player...has been the last couple years @ Michigan. In my opinion, he has been Beilein's latest version of Kevin Pittsnogle (WVU 2002-06)...a 6'11" guy that struggles on defense, cannot defend the rim, but can shoot the long ball. While Wagner is the latest version, I do not think he was as good as Pittsnogle. Pittsnogle averaged almost 20 Points his last season, while Wagner averaged less than 15. Pittsnogle was a career 41% shooter from 3...while Wagner shot 38% from 3 at Michigan on a much lower volume. Kevin Pittsnogle played 0 NBA Games and is an elementary school gym teacher in Fairmont, WV.
Wagner is a Michigan player that looked good on offense.....do you know how dangerous that is to draft? John Beilein is an offensive genius who routinely has been able to make good players look great. He took a WVU team lead by Pittsnogle and Mike Gansey to the Elite 8 and the Sweet 16 the following year....not one single player played in the NBA from that squad. Look at some of the guys he has had at Michigan that have been drafted....Ekpe Udoh (1st Rd. #6), Darius Morris (2nd Rd.), Trey Burke (1st Rd. #9), Glenn Robinson (2nd Rd.), Nik Stauskas (1st Rd. #8), Mitch McGary (1st Rd. #21). Caris LeVert (1st Rd. #20), D.J. Wilson (1st Rd. #17), and Tim Hardaway Jr. (1st Rd. #24).....outside of Hardaway, see a trend? All guys that Beilein was able to make look like great players @ Michigan that have never been able to continue success near that level in the NBA. It is a tough task to take a player coached by John Beilein and make them look as good as he did....
I have tried to think of every angle that may make our picks make sense to me....from maybe they know we are signing major FA's, and just wanted some good dudes in the locker room....to maybe Pelinka demanded a Michigan Man....but I came up with nothing that made sense. I just watched the last two years of playoffs where guys with similar skill makeups of Wagner and Svi are near unplayable.
I believe we will be one of several teams that will regret passing on Jevon Carter....and I can live with that.....but I fear we may also regret passing on 5 or more other guys....guys that can defend multiple positions, that have versatile 2 Way ability.....that are more built for the NBA in 2018. I wish our new guys well, and hope I have to admit how wrong I was someday.
....wanted to get the full vent out so I would hopefully not allow the negativity to linger for days.
Last edited by adkindo on Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:05 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | The interviews with Walton and Pelinka emphasize shooting and intangibles. It gave me the impression of drafting for fit rather than BPA; and the Lakers had both in all of their prospects last year.
But, they really love having great personalities in the locker room while taking basketball seriously. That goes for all of the guys last season too. |
Yeah the Walton interview raised an eyebrow when I heard it. Definitely gave the impression of a change in approach. Maybe we’ll have more details when we’re in Vegas. |
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mixtim
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Here’s something to cheer you guys up: The guy most of you guys wanted DiVincenzo... didn’t make Bucks fan happy when the Bucks drafted him, so there will always be doubters no matter who the guy is. |
Yeah they missed Huerter and Hutchison.
They still got a dude that could shoot and defend. I don't see what the issue is. |
They didn’t think he was the best player Available just like Laker fans didn’t think Wagner was the best player available... that means both fan bases need to give there guy a chance to prove himself. |
I think if you had a list of guys that you want at that pick, he's the Top 3-5.
I think Wagner is easily there at 39. How long is the list for the Lakers?
They had several seasons to prove themselves just to get to the draft too. |
I don't think Wagner would've been there at 39. |
All of the mock drafts had him,at worst,in the first round,yet now,all of a sudden,he should have been there at 39 |
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adkindo
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Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| mixtim wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Here’s something to cheer you guys up: The guy most of you guys wanted DiVincenzo... didn’t make Bucks fan happy when the Bucks drafted him, so there will always be doubters no matter who the guy is. |
Yeah they missed Huerter and Hutchison.
They still got a dude that could shoot and defend. I don't see what the issue is. |
They didn’t think he was the best player Available just like Laker fans didn’t think Wagner was the best player available... that means both fan bases need to give there guy a chance to prove himself. |
I think if you had a list of guys that you want at that pick, he's the Top 3-5.
I think Wagner is easily there at 39. How long is the list for the Lakers?
They had several seasons to prove themselves just to get to the draft too. |
I don't think Wagner would've been there at 39. |
All of the mock drafts had him,at worst,in the first round,yet now,all of a sudden,he should have been there at 39 |
that is a very false statement |
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ChickenStu
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Joined: 25 Apr 2015
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Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| mixtim wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Here’s something to cheer you guys up: The guy most of you guys wanted DiVincenzo... didn’t make Bucks fan happy when the Bucks drafted him, so there will always be doubters no matter who the guy is. |
Yeah they missed Huerter and Hutchison.
They still got a dude that could shoot and defend. I don't see what the issue is. |
They didn’t think he was the best player Available just like Laker fans didn’t think Wagner was the best player available... that means both fan bases need to give there guy a chance to prove himself. |
I think if you had a list of guys that you want at that pick, he's the Top 3-5.
I think Wagner is easily there at 39. How long is the list for the Lakers?
They had several seasons to prove themselves just to get to the draft too. |
I don't think Wagner would've been there at 39. |
All of the mock drafts had him,at worst,in the first round,yet now,all of a sudden,he should have been there at 39 |
I don't think it's all of a sudden. I wouldn't have taken him at 25, but that doesn't mean that he would've been there at 39. I saw at least a couple of mocks--decent ones, I thought--that had him in the late 1st, and even our own 44TL's mock had him going 29th to the Nets. We can't just assume he would've been there at 39. Maybe he would have, but I'm guessing that he wouldn't have been. |
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mixtim
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | mixtim wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Here’s something to cheer you guys up: The guy most of you guys wanted DiVincenzo... didn’t make Bucks fan happy when the Bucks drafted him, so there will always be doubters no matter who the guy is. |
Yeah they missed Huerter and Hutchison.
They still got a dude that could shoot and defend. I don't see what the issue is. |
They didn’t think he was the best player Available just like Laker fans didn’t think Wagner was the best player available... that means both fan bases need to give there guy a chance to prove himself. |
I think if you had a list of guys that you want at that pick, he's the Top 3-5.
I think Wagner is easily there at 39. How long is the list for the Lakers?
They had several seasons to prove themselves just to get to the draft too. |
I don't think Wagner would've been there at 39. |
All of the mock drafts had him,at worst,in the first round,yet now,all of a sudden,he should have been there at 39 |
that is a very false statement |
Prove it |
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adkindo
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Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Here’s something to cheer you guys up: The guy most of you guys wanted DiVincenzo... didn’t make Bucks fan happy when the Bucks drafted him, so there will always be doubters no matter who the guy is. |
Yeah they missed Huerter and Hutchison.
They still got a dude that could shoot and defend. I don't see what the issue is. |
They didn’t think he was the best player Available just like Laker fans didn’t think Wagner was the best player available... that means both fan bases need to give there guy a chance to prove himself. |
I think if you had a list of guys that you want at that pick, he's the Top 3-5.
I think Wagner is easily there at 39. How long is the list for the Lakers?
They had several seasons to prove themselves just to get to the draft too. |
I don't think Wagner would've been there at 39. |
Agree. If GSW had taken him and I feel he fit perfectly there would we be lamenting about how they got another shooter? |
I do not think NBA fans would have been very upset if GSW added Mo Wagner. |
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YSong
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Posts: 2329
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Wagner would be gone by #39 |
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CamReddish
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | I woke up this morning.....and it felt like one of those mornings where something bad happened the previous day, and you realize it was not just a bad dream. Yeah, I am not happy about our draft. I feel like the FO must see an entirely different NBA than the one I have watched evolve in recent years. The most valuable players/assets in the NBA are 2 Way perimeter players, and we finished the night adding zero....when we could have added 3 with that potential.
Wagner is a solid basketball player...has been the last couple years @ Michigan. In my opinion, he has been Beilein's latest version of Kevin Pittsnogle (WVU 2002-06)...a 6'11" guy that struggles on defense, cannot defend the rim, but can shoot the long ball. While Wagner is the latest version, I do not think he was as good as Pittsnogle. Pittsnogle averaged almost 20 Points his last season, while Wagner averaged less than 15. Pittsnogle was a career 41% shooter from 3...while Wagner shot 38% from 3 at Michigan on a much lower volume. Kevin Pittsnogle played 0 NBA Games and is an elementary school gym teacher in Fairmont, WV.
Wagner is a Michigan player that looked good on offense.....do you know how dangerous that is to draft? John Beilein is an offensive genius who routinely has been able to make good players look great. He took a WVU team lead by Pittsnogle and Mike Gansey to the Elite 8 and the Sweet 16 the following year....not one single player played in the NBA from that squad. Look at some of the guys he has had at Michigan that have been drafted....Ekpe Udoh (1st Rd. #6), Darius Morris (2nd Rd.), Trey Burke (1st Rd. #9), Glenn Robinson (2nd Rd.), Nik Stauskas (1st Rd. #8), Mitch McGary (1st Rd. #21). Caris LeVert (1st Rd. #20), D.J. Wilson (1st Rd. #17), and Tim Hardaway Jr. (1st Rd. #24).....outside of Hardaway, see a trend? All guys that Beilein was able to make look like great players @ Michigan that have never been able to continue success near that level in the NBA. It is a tough task to take a player coached by John Beilein and make them look as good as he did....
I have tried to think of every angle that may make our picks make sense to me....from maybe they know we are signing major FA's, and just wanted some good dudes in the locker room....to maybe Pelinka demanded a Michigan Man....but I came up with nothing that made sense. I just watched the last two years of playoffs where guys with similar skill makeups of Wagner and Svi are near unplayable.
I believe we will be one of several teams that will regret passing on Jevon Carter....and I can live with that.....but I fear we may also regret passing on 5 or more other guys....guys that can defend multiple positions, that have versatile 2 Way ability.....that are more built for the NBA in 2018. I wish our new guys well, and hope I have to admit how wrong I was someday.
....wanted to get the full vent out so I would hopefully not allow the negativity to linger for days. |
That guy had 0 post game and was way slower than Mo
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| mixtim wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | mixtim wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Here’s something to cheer you guys up: The guy most of you guys wanted DiVincenzo... didn’t make Bucks fan happy when the Bucks drafted him, so there will always be doubters no matter who the guy is. |
Yeah they missed Huerter and Hutchison.
They still got a dude that could shoot and defend. I don't see what the issue is. |
They didn’t think he was the best player Available just like Laker fans didn’t think Wagner was the best player available... that means both fan bases need to give there guy a chance to prove himself. |
I think if you had a list of guys that you want at that pick, he's the Top 3-5.
I think Wagner is easily there at 39. How long is the list for the Lakers?
They had several seasons to prove themselves just to get to the draft too. |
I don't think Wagner would've been there at 39. |
All of the mock drafts had him,at worst,in the first round,yet now,all of a sudden,he should have been there at 39 |
that is a very false statement |
Prove it |
The SI and CBS ones I believe had him in the 2nd round.
But it was early 30s. % seemed low that he'd be around till 39.
But who knows anymore. |
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adkindo
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Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| mixtim wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | mixtim wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Here’s something to cheer you guys up: The guy most of you guys wanted DiVincenzo... didn’t make Bucks fan happy when the Bucks drafted him, so there will always be doubters no matter who the guy is. |
Yeah they missed Huerter and Hutchison.
They still got a dude that could shoot and defend. I don't see what the issue is. |
They didn’t think he was the best player Available just like Laker fans didn’t think Wagner was the best player available... that means both fan bases need to give there guy a chance to prove himself. |
I think if you had a list of guys that you want at that pick, he's the Top 3-5.
I think Wagner is easily there at 39. How long is the list for the Lakers?
They had several seasons to prove themselves just to get to the draft too. |
I don't think Wagner would've been there at 39. |
All of the mock drafts had him,at worst,in the first round,yet now,all of a sudden,he should have been there at 39 |
that is a very false statement |
Prove it |
Basketball Insider - Avg. #36
CBS Sports - Unlisted in 1st Round
Net Scouts - #45
Bleacher Report - #37
USA Today - unlisted in 1st Round
Sports Illustrated - #40
The Ringer - #34 |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Celtics fans wanted Wagner. Not saying they would have taken him next, but he fits what they do to a T. |
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lukewaltonsdad
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2014
Posts: 2983
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | Celtics fans wanted Wagner. Not saying they would have taken him next, but he fits what they do to a T. |
And he probably would have done well there; they got away with playing Baynes at the 5 this for some minutes this season and in the PO's... |
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adkindo
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Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| PG13 wrote: | | That guy had 0 post game and was way slower than Mo |
Pittsnogle had a lot of good post moves...his feet were good for 6'11" and he could go over both shoulders. |
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epak
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | PG13 wrote: | | That guy had 0 post game and was way slower than Mo |
Pittsnogle had a lot of good post moves...his feet were good for 6'11" and he could go over both shoulders. |
As good as okafor? |
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