Official 2018 NBA Draft Thread: Lakers select Moe Wagner (#25), Isaac Bonga (#39), and Svi Mykhailiuk (#47) - see 1st page for draft links
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Sentient Meat
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:44 am    Post subject:

Another athletic bullet dodged

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8t7osf/sports_illustrated_lonnie_walker_called_hitler_a/
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:17 am    Post subject:

This draft was clearly conducted with the idea that lebron and pg are coming. If the front office didn’t believe that, then this draft would be averageor below it.

We are clearly drafting like a contending team looking for fit at this point.

Something I mentioned many pages ago now is if a kawhi trade does present itself, I could see the spurs asking for any of these 3 guys as part of the package.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:18 am    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
Derrick Caracter

Lane Agility drill 12.78
3/4 Court Sprint 3.61

3 point percentage... 27% on 15 shots

Moe Wagner

Lane Agility drill 11.48
3/4 Court Sprint 3.18

3 point percentage... 39% on 160 shots

Devin Ebanks

Lane Agility drill 11.69
3/4 Court Sprint 3.25

3 point percentage... 10% on 30 shots

Svi Mykhailiuk

Lane Agility drill 11.25
3/4 Court Sprint 3.15

3 point percentage... 44% on 259 shots

Of course with the advancement in training techniques and medical science over the last eight years... (sarcastic, just in case) you never know what they might have achieved in the modern era... but our center ran faster and was more agile than the perimeter player.

Some successful players from 2010 just for comparison.

Hassan Whiteside

Lane Agility drill 11.83
3/4 Court Sprint 3.54

John Wall

Lane Agility drill 10.84
3/4 Court Sprint 3.14

3 pt. Percentage 33% on 114 shots

Gordon Hayward

Lane Agility drill 11.73
3/4 Court Sprint 3.22

3 pt. Percentage 29% on 160 shots

Avery Bradley

Lane Agility drill 11.47
3/4 Court Sprint 3.14

3 pt. Percentage 38% on 112 shots

DeMarcus Cousins

Lane Agility drill 11.40
3/4 Court Sprint 3.55

Greg Monroe
Lane Agility drill 12.10
3/4 Court Sprint 3.35

Moe is faster than all the centers though not as agile as Boogie was

Svi runs straight ahead pretty much at the same speed as John Wall

Moe's agility number is the same as Avery Bradley.

They both shoot better than any of those 2010 prospects who became successful players.

I'm not saying they will 100% succeed but it is likely they will do better than Caracter or Ebanks.



inb4 "all that means nothing" from those that still want to complain
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:22 am    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
adkindo wrote:
I woke up this morning.....and it felt like one of those mornings where something bad happened the previous day, and you realize it was not just a bad dream. Yeah, I am not happy about our draft. I feel like the FO must see an entirely different NBA than the one I have watched evolve in recent years. The most valuable players/assets in the NBA are 2 Way perimeter players, and we finished the night adding zero....when we could have added 3 with that potential.

Wagner is a solid basketball player...has been the last couple years @ Michigan. In my opinion, he has been Beilein's latest version of Kevin Pittsnogle (WVU 2002-06)...a 6'11" guy that struggles on defense, cannot defend the rim, but can shoot the long ball. While Wagner is the latest version, I do not think he was as good as Pittsnogle. Pittsnogle averaged almost 20 Points his last season, while Wagner averaged less than 15. Pittsnogle was a career 41% shooter from 3...while Wagner shot 38% from 3 at Michigan on a much lower volume. Kevin Pittsnogle played 0 NBA Games and is an elementary school gym teacher in Fairmont, WV.

Wagner is a Michigan player that looked good on offense.....do you know how dangerous that is to draft? John Beilein is an offensive genius who routinely has been able to make good players look great. He took a WVU team lead by Pittsnogle and Mike Gansey to the Elite 8 and the Sweet 16 the following year....not one single player played in the NBA from that squad. Look at some of the guys he has had at Michigan that have been drafted....Ekpe Udoh (1st Rd. #6), Darius Morris (2nd Rd.), Trey Burke (1st Rd. #9), Glenn Robinson (2nd Rd.), Nik Stauskas (1st Rd. #8), Mitch McGary (1st Rd. #21). Caris LeVert (1st Rd. #20), D.J. Wilson (1st Rd. #17), and Tim Hardaway Jr. (1st Rd. #24).....outside of Hardaway, see a trend? All guys that Beilein was able to make look like great players @ Michigan that have never been able to continue success near that level in the NBA. It is a tough task to take a player coached by John Beilein and make them look as good as he did....

I have tried to think of every angle that may make our picks make sense to me....from maybe they know we are signing major FA's, and just wanted some good dudes in the locker room....to maybe Pelinka demanded a Michigan Man....but I came up with nothing that made sense. I just watched the last two years of playoffs where guys with similar skill makeups of Wagner and Svi are near unplayable.

I believe we will be one of several teams that will regret passing on Jevon Carter....and I can live with that.....but I fear we may also regret passing on 5 or more other guys....guys that can defend multiple positions, that have versatile 2 Way ability.....that are more built for the NBA in 2018. I wish our new guys well, and hope I have to admit how wrong I was someday.

....wanted to get the full vent out so I would hopefully not allow the negativity to linger for days.

All of this.


crap


Do we not already have a core of two-way players?

We were in dire need of shooting as we were one of the worst outside shooting teams in the league. We drafted a couple of shooters who are tough, high IQ, deceptively athletic and play with heart and passion.

You can bet our front office are thinking two or three steps ahead. They know we are getting both LeBron and PG. So you draft accordingly; LeBron needs shooters and players who don't forget how many timeouts the team has.

We have an identity and a philosophy that we are committed to in terms of drafting players. We definitely put a premium on seasoned players that come from solid basketball programs:

Moritz Wagner - Michigan, 3 years
Svi Mykhailiuk - Kansas, 4 years
Kyle Kuzma - Utah, 3 years
Josh Hart - Villanova, 4 years

This year's draft picks fill our needs, sticks to our philosophy and have clear skillsets that translate immediately at the NBA level.

What do you think our most glaring needs were coming into the draft? 2-way players which we already have a surplus of? If you look at the stats and analytics, we were sorely missing out in shooters. What did we draft? Shooters.

If anything, the players we drafted are also Spurs-type of players. It's possible they could be involved in a trade for that two-way type of player you desire in Kawhi Leonard.

Trust our front office. They know exactly what they are doing.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:33 am    Post subject:

Magic fan here, I came here 11 years ago to congratulate you all on your Finals championship against my Magic but I forgot my screen name since I have not been here in 9 years so I made a new screen name and I came here again to congratulate again on getting Bamba from my Magic in a few years and unfortanely, Bamba will be winning 3 championships or more with the Lakers but I wish the Lakers the best of luck this season!
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:39 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Derrick Caracter

Lane Agility drill 12.78
3/4 Court Sprint 3.61

3 point percentage... 27% on 15 shots

Moe Wagner

Lane Agility drill 11.48
3/4 Court Sprint 3.18

3 point percentage... 39% on 160 shots

Devin Ebanks

Lane Agility drill 11.69
3/4 Court Sprint 3.25

3 point percentage... 10% on 30 shots

Svi Mykhailiuk

Lane Agility drill 11.25
3/4 Court Sprint 3.15

3 point percentage... 44% on 259 shots

Of course with the advancement in training techniques and medical science over the last eight years... (sarcastic, just in case) you never know what they might have achieved in the modern era... but our center ran faster and was more agile than the perimeter player.

Some successful players from 2010 just for comparison.

Hassan Whiteside

Lane Agility drill 11.83
3/4 Court Sprint 3.54

John Wall

Lane Agility drill 10.84
3/4 Court Sprint 3.14

3 pt. Percentage 33% on 114 shots

Gordon Hayward

Lane Agility drill 11.73
3/4 Court Sprint 3.22

3 pt. Percentage 29% on 160 shots

Avery Bradley

Lane Agility drill 11.47
3/4 Court Sprint 3.14

3 pt. Percentage 38% on 112 shots

DeMarcus Cousins

Lane Agility drill 11.40
3/4 Court Sprint 3.55

Greg Monroe
Lane Agility drill 12.10
3/4 Court Sprint 3.35

Moe is faster than all the centers though not as agile as Boogie was

Svi runs straight ahead pretty much at the same speed as John Wall

Moe's agility number is the same as Avery Bradley.

They both shoot better than any of those 2010 prospects who became successful players.

I'm not saying they will 100% succeed but it is likely they will do better than Caracter or Ebanks.



inb4 "all that means nothing" from those that still want to complain


Yeah, the agility test means nothing yet NBA experts conduct the test annually just the same... and predictably John Wall has a great number.

Even if you reject the test... and I do think there is a learning curve and some may have practiced it while others haven't... you still can't argue with the fact that our guys ran the court at close to the speed of the fastest guy in the league.

They can shoot and run fast... they can workout to add strength... I would say they have a good chance of doing pretty well.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:45 am    Post subject:

OrlandoMagicFan1234 wrote:
Magic fan here, I came here 11 years ago to congratulate you all on your Finals championship against my Magic but I forgot my screen name since I have not been here in 9 years so I made a new screen name and I came here again to congratulate again on getting Bamba from my Magic in a few years and unfortanely, Bamba will be winning 3 championships or more with the Lakers but I wish the Lakers the best of luck this season!


Just give him to us now and we will give you no Wagner, IT, and another Isaac.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:07 am    Post subject:

HOF Rookie wrote:
OrlandoMagicFan1234 wrote:
Magic fan here, I came here 11 years ago to congratulate you all on your Finals championship against my Magic but I forgot my screen name since I have not been here in 9 years so I made a new screen name and I came here again to congratulate again on getting Bamba from my Magic in a few years and unfortanely, Bamba will be winning 3 championships or more with the Lakers but I wish the Lakers the best of luck this season!


Just give him to us now and we will give you no Wagner, IT, and another Isaac.



No thanks, I can not stand Wagner and Thomas but Magic is going to develop Bamba before he goes to the Lakers like they did with O'Neal and Howard and it will not take long before Bamba will be a Laker with championships so be patient!
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:40 am    Post subject:

That’s the point. You can never have too many two way players.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:44 am    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
Another athletic bullet dodged

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8t7osf/sports_illustrated_lonnie_walker_called_hitler_a/

Paging 44TL. Paging 44TL.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:02 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Another athletic bullet dodged

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8t7osf/sports_illustrated_lonnie_walker_called_hitler_a/

Paging 44TL. Paging 44TL.


lol saw a couple fun things about another draft LG darling a while back too ANYWAYS
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:30 am    Post subject:

lakersfan8 wrote:
My thought:

1. It is obvious Lakers was drafting for fit rather than BPA. This is usually the strategy for contending team, so it shows how our front office is confident signing two max free agents.



This is the strategy for badly run teams.

The best run contending teams go BPA.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:03 am    Post subject:

lakersfan8 wrote:
My thought:

1. It is obvious Lakers was drafting for fit rather than BPA. This is usually the strategy for contending team, so it shows how our front office is confident signing two max free agents.

2. I still think plan A was to trade up or send Deng away with the picks. I am disappointed that neither of that happened. The free agency market doesn't have many good quality PG and it would be great if we could get Holiday on the second unit. Personally, I think trading a pick that is so far ahead is a risky move and now if we have to attach 2 1st round picks to facilitate a Deng trade, it has to be 2021. Not saying I don't like Wagner, it is just I would prefer something else happened.


What threw me off is the goal magic / rob stated last year, hi IQ, 2 way players...sounds like we got 2/3 of that with Mo. Im wondering if not selecting someone who can 3 and d (and smart) was just a function of possibly the draft not being as deep this year for those type of players (which arguably you can never have enough of) or perhaps it is just that there was someone like that but they valued mo's shooting much greater....for perhaps this fit concept.

Either way, even if he is say a 40% 3 point guy...if he ends up being a stiff on d are we really better than getting the 2 way player?

I won't pretend to know more than others here who followed draft prospects diligently, and I'll support what the FO is doing here, but this draft did seem to divert from their vision they put forth last year.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject:

What if they just really liked Mo Wagner?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:48 am    Post subject:

Everyone's gonna love wagner when summer league starts
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:02 am    Post subject:

justsomelakerfan wrote:
What if they just really liked Mo Wagner?


Seriously. I'll admit I was disappointed right after the pick was made, too, but I don't know why we can't just give them the benefit of the doubt after the great run they've had with the draft and evaluating prospects that a lot of the other teams missed on in recent years. I get that there were more than a handful of other guys that fit the "3-and-D" profile or close enough to it who were available when we picked, but the back end of the 1st round is literally flooded with those types every year, and the reality is that the vast majority of them don't do jack (bleep) in the NBA. The ones that are more likely to hit that potential are already gone at that point. Kuz and Hart were the exception, not the rule.

Would I still have loved to take a flier on Melton at #39? (bleep) yeah - that's probably the one red mark I'd give to the FO, simply because cheap guard depth behind Zo was a need. But I'm not going to lose sleep over it. As important as the draft proved to be to our future last year and how helpful those rookie deals are, we have bigger plans in free agency this year. And in the context of those plans (plus given the core guys we already have), I can definitely come around to the players we picked and see the FO's rationale about their fit versus some of the other prospects we passed on. In about a week and a half when we sign Lebron and PG, this is all going to look much better in hindsight.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:08 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Derrick Caracter

Lane Agility drill 12.78
3/4 Court Sprint 3.61

3 point percentage... 27% on 15 shots

Moe Wagner

Lane Agility drill 11.48
3/4 Court Sprint 3.18

3 point percentage... 39% on 160 shots

Devin Ebanks

Lane Agility drill 11.69
3/4 Court Sprint 3.25

3 point percentage... 10% on 30 shots

Svi Mykhailiuk
Lane Agility drill 11.25
3/4 Court Sprint 3.15

3 point percentage... 44% on 259 shots

Of course with the advancement in training techniques and medical science over the last eight years... (sarcastic, just in case) you never know what they might have achieved in the modern era... but our center ran faster and was more agile than the perimeter player.

Some successful players from 2010 just for comparison.

Hassan Whiteside

Lane Agility drill 11.83
3/4 Court Sprint 3.54

John Wall
Lane Agility drill 10.84
3/4 Court Sprint 3.14

3 pt. Percentage 33% on 114 shots

Gordon Hayward

Lane Agility drill 11.73
3/4 Court Sprint 3.22

3 pt. Percentage 29% on 160 shots

Avery Bradley

Lane Agility drill 11.47
3/4 Court Sprint 3.14

3 pt. Percentage 38% on 112 shots

DeMarcus Cousins

Lane Agility drill 11.40
3/4 Court Sprint 3.55

Greg Monroe
Lane Agility drill 12.10
3/4 Court Sprint 3.35

Moe is faster than all the centers though not as agile as Boogie was

Svi runs straight ahead pretty much at the same speed as John Wall

Moe's agility number is the same as Avery Bradley.

They both shoot better than any of those 2010 prospects who became successful players.

I'm not saying they will 100% succeed but it is likely they will do better than Caracter or Ebanks.



inb4 "all that means nothing" from those that still want to complain


Svi is as fast as John Wall. Sign me up!
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:09 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Reading the immediate reaction of Wagner being drafted (from page 424-428) is absolutely comical (and disappointing). It just goes to show you how programmed we men are into being emotional, fanatical shrills. What happened to the days when men measured their thoughts before speaking.

I’m sorry. Carry on.

I liked you better when you were stoic and beat your wife with a flinty gazed resolve.

Without tears.


Have a lot of respect for you as a poster BVH...

This is over the line and apology worthy.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:11 am    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
lakersfan8 wrote:
My thought:

1. It is obvious Lakers was drafting for fit rather than BPA. This is usually the strategy for contending team, so it shows how our front office is confident signing two max free agents.



This is the strategy for badly run teams.

The best run contending teams go BPA.


We were the 29th worst 3-point shooting team in the league. It had to be addressed either in free agency or the draft. If Wagner shoots 38% from 3 as a stretch 5 next to Lebron/PG, on a cost-controlled contract for the next 4 years, would you change your tune? Just curious.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
Another athletic bullet dodged

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8t7osf/sports_illustrated_lonnie_walker_called_hitler_a/


and another one...

Celtics draft pick Robert Williams sleeps through introductory conference call

Quote:
His talent as a rim-running, shot-blocking big man had many project him as a possible lottery pick, but reported motivation issues may have caused his slide to Boston at No. 27.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:22 am    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
lakersfan8 wrote:
My thought:

1. It is obvious Lakers was drafting for fit rather than BPA. This is usually the strategy for contending team, so it shows how our front office is confident signing two max free agents.



This is the strategy for badly run teams.

The best run contending teams go BPA.


Maybe Lakers thought he was BPA?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
Another athletic bullet dodged

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8t7osf/sports_illustrated_lonnie_walker_called_hitler_a/


What a charming fellow.

He fits right in that toxic SpursTalk culture.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:29 am    Post subject:

DrDent wrote:
lakersfan8 wrote:
My thought:

1. It is obvious Lakers was drafting for fit rather than BPA. This is usually the strategy for contending team, so it shows how our front office is confident signing two max free agents.

2. I still think plan A was to trade up or send Deng away with the picks. I am disappointed that neither of that happened. The free agency market doesn't have many good quality PG and it would be great if we could get Holiday on the second unit. Personally, I think trading a pick that is so far ahead is a risky move and now if we have to attach 2 1st round picks to facilitate a Deng trade, it has to be 2021. Not saying I don't like Wagner, it is just I would prefer something else happened.


What threw me off is the goal magic / rob stated last year, hi IQ, 2 way players...sounds like we got 2/3 of that with Mo. Im wondering if not selecting someone who can 3 and d (and smart) was just a function of possibly the draft not being as deep this year for those type of players (which arguably you can never have enough of) or perhaps it is just that there was someone like that but they valued mo's shooting much greater....for perhaps this fit concept.

Either way, even if he is say a 40% 3 point guy...if he ends up being a stiff on d are we really better than getting the 2 way player?

I won't pretend to know more than others here who followed draft prospects diligently, and I'll support what the FO is doing here, but this draft did seem to divert from their vision they put forth last year.

Which two way player are you refering to?

I have as much doubt with this pick as you do but I think the front office is already building a team for LBJ and PG13. There isn't another stretch 5 on the market besides Lopez and I don't think he will take room exception.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Another athletic bullet dodged

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8t7osf/sports_illustrated_lonnie_walker_called_hitler_a/


and another one...

Celtics draft pick Robert Williams sleeps through introductory conference call

Quote:
His talent as a rim-running, shot-blocking big man had many project him as a possible lottery pick, but reported motivation issues may have caused his slide to Boston at No. 27.


I get that it's only optics...but how the heck do you sleep through your 1st conference call with your agent blowing up your phone? That takes a special kind of purposeful stupidity.

But yeah...A+ draft for them.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
lakersfan8 wrote:
My thought:

1. It is obvious Lakers was drafting for fit rather than BPA. This is usually the strategy for contending team, so it shows how our front office is confident signing two max free agents.



This is the strategy for badly run teams.

The best run contending teams go BPA.


Maybe Lakers thought he was BPA?


BPA is more than measurables...it's attitude too. The 2 kids everyone wanted at 25 can't shoot and seem to be missing it between the ears...glad we passed for a kid with high IQ high enthusiasm and excellent stroke.
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