Official 2018 NBA Draft Thread: Lakers select Moe Wagner (#25), Isaac Bonga (#39), and Svi Mykhailiuk (#47) - see 1st page for draft links
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:37 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
How much weight do you guys put into the following:

1. Physical looks
2. Interview skills
3. Character


I mean, he has to look like Brad Pitt, right?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:40 pm    Post subject:

also, there was reporting that Khyri Thomas was the pick @ 39 also before I think it was Detroit jumped in and snagged him. Draft could have easily been Holiday, Thomas, and Melton if things broke different.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:43 pm    Post subject:

My issue with the Wagner pick isn't the player, but rather the outcome of picking at #25.

I would have rather seen us become aggressive and trade up, even to #23 to get Holiday or trade down or out of the 1st round completely.

I don't see Wagner helping us dump Deng or being worth the extra $900k in salary cap space.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:45 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
also, there was reporting that Khyri Thomas was the pick @ 39 also before I think it was Detroit jumped in and snagged him. Draft could have easily been Holiday, Thomas, and Melton if things broke different.


Hey Thomas or Bonga. My 2 favored prospects.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:45 pm    Post subject:

Lakerz113 wrote:


Maybe they use the workouts as their main source for drafting?
kuz and hart killed their workouts last year if im correct.


One thing to note about Wagner is that he declared for the 2017 draft and really struggled at the 2017 NBA combine.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:47 pm    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
My issue with the Wagner pick isn't the player, but rather the outcome of picking at #25.

I would have rather seen us become aggressive and trade up, even to #23 to get Holiday or trade down or out of the 1st round completely.

I don't see Wagner helping us dump Deng or being worth the extra $900k in salary cap space.


I know Rob took a lot of heat for that quote on draft night but I really don't think too many teams want to help LA right now. I think there's a couple other plays and scenarios LA would have preferred on draft night.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:47 pm    Post subject:

I think the Lakers knew exactly what they were doing when they drafted who they drafted.

Isaac Bonga is maybe a year or two from being a year or two away. If he pans out, you've got one hell of a prospect. He's about as position-less as you can get, no? Lol. He's 6'8" with a 7'0" wingspan and he's a facilitator. Point forward. Maybe he turns into the Lakers version of Andre Iguodala in 2 to 3 years?

I still think Mo Wagner isn't being received well due to the lack of "coverage" he got on here. Landry Shamet, Jevon Carter, Khyri Thomas, and De'Anthony Melton were discussed (other players were discussed more but were already taken. I'm mentioning players that were available at the 25th pick) for a solid 2 or 3 months. People got attached to them. People maybe sensationalized them a little bit (not saying they won't be good.. but as with any late first round / second round pick.. its possible they don't stick) It's funny to me that the players that were mostly discussed were guards. I followed the draft thread for the past couple of months and I would be surprised if Wagner was mentioned 10 times in the past couple of months lol.

Josh Hart and Kyle Kuzma were impressed by his workout -- said he plays with high energy and would be fun to play with.

Luke Walton praised Wagners IQ, Passing, Unselfishness, Playing the game the right way etc

Pelinka mentioned being a good culture fit. Maybe some of the "draft darlings" didn't check off all the boxes that Wagner (in the Lakers mind) did.

I'm sure the scouting department signed off on it as well. He impressed at the combine and at workouts.

This pick, imo, was the Lakers drafting BPA. It just so happened that the Lakers BPA is different than y'alls BPA. To me, though, it seemed a lot of people were focused on perimeter players. I think if front court players were on anyones mind (which is understandable considering how many the Lakers have) this pick would be much less controversial.


Last edited by ch3cky0selff00 on Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:48 pm    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:


Maybe they use the workouts as their main source for drafting?
kuz and hart killed their workouts last year if im correct.


One thing to note about Wagner is that he declared for the 2017 draft and really struggled at the 2017 NBA combine.


Which is more encouraging... because if you look at his numbers they jumped significantly between 2017 and 2018. A sign of an industrious worker.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:51 pm    Post subject:

In regards to Wagner during Pelinka's press conference he mentioned that his selection was for Magic.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:53 pm    Post subject:

ch3cky0selff00 wrote:
I think the Lakers knew exactly what they were doing when they drafted who they drafted.

Isaac Bonga is maybe a year or two from being a year or two away. If he pans out, you've got one hell of a prospect. He's about as position-less as you can get, no? Lol. He's 6'8" with a 7'0" wingspan and he's a facilitator. Point forward. Maybe he turns into the Lakers version of Andre Iguodala in 2 to 3 years?

I still think Mo Wagner isn't being received well due to the lack of "coverage" he got on here. Landry Shamet, Jevon Carter, Khyri Thomas, and De'Anthony Melton were discussed (other players were discussed more but were already taken. I'm mentioning players that were available at the 25th pick) for a solid 2 or 3 months. People got attached to them. People maybe sensationalized them a little bit (not saying they won't be good.. but as with any late first round / second round pick.. its possible they don't stick) It's funny to me that the players that were mostly discussed were guards. I followed the draft thread for the past couple of months and I would be surprised if Wagner was mentioned 10 times in the past couple of months lol.

Josh Hart and Kyle Kuzma were impressed by his workout -- said he plays with high energy and would be fun to play with.

Luke Walton praised Wagners IQ, Passing, Unselfishness, Playing the game the right way etc

I'm sure the scouting department signed off on it as well. He impressed at the combine and at workouts.

This pick, imo, was the Lakers drafting BPA. It just so happened that the Lakers BPA is different than y'alls BPA. To me, though, it seemed a lot of people were focused on perimeter players. I think if front court players were on anyones mind (which is understandable considering how many the Lakers have) this pick would be much less controversial.


There are respected posters here who feel like Moe was a reach but I personally like the pick. I've said this before but when I watch him, I really see a slower/bigger version of Kuzma. he has great footwork, range, stroke, and feel for the game. He has a certain level of movement/foot work that is not common... especially with rookies. I'm excited to see how he grows.. worst case, I see a Channing Frye level play with the ability to pass and roll hard.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:58 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:


Maybe they use the workouts as their main source for drafting?
kuz and hart killed their workouts last year if im correct.


One thing to note about Wagner is that he declared for the 2017 draft and really struggled at the 2017 NBA combine.


Which is more encouraging... because if you look at his numbers they jumped significantly between 2017 and 2018. A sign of an industrious worker.


He did duck the 5 on 5 portion of the combine this year.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:59 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Josh Hart and Kyle Kuzma were impressed by his workout -- said he plays with high energy and would be fun to play with.

Luke Walton praised Wagners IQ, Passing, Unselfishness, Playing the game the right way etc

To me, though, it seemed a lot of people were focused on perimeter players. I think if front court players were on anyones mind (which is understandable considering how many the Lakers have) this pick would be much less controversial.


1. Wings, guards, then bigs generally speaking, have the most value in the league whether they're drafted or traded for. Wagner wasn't mentioned much because, bigs have to do two things to stick; play like a wing player (best case Anthony Davis here) or defend in space and provide rim protection (best case Clint Capela here). It's more difficult to see Wagner play like a wing.

2. IQ, passing, unselfishness. Isn't that Evans, Okobo, Brunson, etc? I know Jacob Evans shot looked horrible during the Laker workout, but just prior to the draft, he slowed the release and it looked SO much better. Part of the Lakers' philosophy is positionless basketball. Guys like Evans tie into that too. Wagner, not so much.

3. The fact that seems like more of an intangibles pick than a skills pick, is what surprises me the most. Wagner is a hell of a shooter, but he wasn't the only elite shooter there. The Lakers already drafted Svi. Shamet as a 4th or 5th option guy would be scary too, and at least I don't think he's as much of a liability because he's not expected to protect the paint like Mo should.

For Pete's sake, Shamet looked like he couldn't get his shot off during PreDraft scrimmages, but he is the 100th percentile in contested halfcourt shooting. 55.6%FG. All he has to do is spot up.

I hope he surprises on the defensive end this summer. Not that Kuzma's defense was that great, but at least you can see how lightfooted he is and he was just really bouncy. You can build defense off of that.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:02 pm    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
ch3cky0selff00 wrote:
I think the Lakers knew exactly what they were doing when they drafted who they drafted.

Isaac Bonga is maybe a year or two from being a year or two away. If he pans out, you've got one hell of a prospect. He's about as position-less as you can get, no? Lol. He's 6'8" with a 7'0" wingspan and he's a facilitator. Point forward. Maybe he turns into the Lakers version of Andre Iguodala in 2 to 3 years?

I still think Mo Wagner isn't being received well due to the lack of "coverage" he got on here. Landry Shamet, Jevon Carter, Khyri Thomas, and De'Anthony Melton were discussed (other players were discussed more but were already taken. I'm mentioning players that were available at the 25th pick) for a solid 2 or 3 months. People got attached to them. People maybe sensationalized them a little bit (not saying they won't be good.. but as with any late first round / second round pick.. its possible they don't stick) It's funny to me that the players that were mostly discussed were guards. I followed the draft thread for the past couple of months and I would be surprised if Wagner was mentioned 10 times in the past couple of months lol.

Josh Hart and Kyle Kuzma were impressed by his workout -- said he plays with high energy and would be fun to play with.

Luke Walton praised Wagners IQ, Passing, Unselfishness, Playing the game the right way etc

I'm sure the scouting department signed off on it as well. He impressed at the combine and at workouts.

This pick, imo, was the Lakers drafting BPA. It just so happened that the Lakers BPA is different than y'alls BPA. To me, though, it seemed a lot of people were focused on perimeter players. I think if front court players were on anyones mind (which is understandable considering how many the Lakers have) this pick would be much less controversial.


There are respected posters here who feel like Moe was a reach but I personally like the pick. I've said this before but when I watch him, I really see a slower/bigger version of Kuzma. he has great footwork, range, stroke, and feel for the game. He has a certain level of movement/foot work that is not common... especially with rookies. I'm excited to see how he grows.. worst case, I see a Channing Frye level play with the ability to pass and roll hard.


He has more to his game than Channing Frye imo. But, yeah, that's not a bad worst-case scenario.

I just can't wait until Summer League.

Hopefully, looking back at this time next year we'll be praising the front office and not cursing them for missing out on one of the half-dozen perimeter players a lot of people here were discussing.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:03 pm    Post subject:

ch3cky0selff00 wrote:
I still think Mo Wagner isn't being received well due to the lack of "coverage" he got on here.


I really do not understand this thought....Mo Wagner was one of the most well known players in college basketball. Most of the guys that were frequently in this thread could have gave a solid scouting report of Wagner last summer.

ch3cky0selff00 wrote:
Josh Hart and Kyle Kuzma were impressed by his workout -- said he plays with high energy and would be fun to play with.


Maybe I am cynical, but this made me laugh when Pelinka said it. If I was a rookie SG or Combo/PF....I would also be at workouts talking up the Center to be the 1st round pick. This is a zero sum game. Does anyone think that Hart would be encouraging Pelinka to take Kevin Heurter? Kuzma was not hoping Michael Porter Jr. slipped to #25.

ch3cky0selff00 wrote:
To me, though, it seemed a lot of people were focused on perimeter players. I think if front court players were on anyones mind (which is understandable considering how many the Lakers have) this pick would be much less controversial.


75% of the board was excited on draft night because they thought Robert Williams (Center) had slipped to us @ #25. Probably the most common name mentioned and discussed related to the #25 pick before the draft was Mitchell Robinson (Center).
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:04 pm    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:


Maybe they use the workouts as their main source for drafting?
kuz and hart killed their workouts last year if im correct.


One thing to note about Wagner is that he declared for the 2017 draft and really struggled at the 2017 NBA combine.


Which is more encouraging... because if you look at his numbers they jumped significantly between 2017 and 2018. A sign of an industrious worker.


He did duck the 5 on 5 portion of the combine this year.


Hmmm... wonder why. I notice that lots of centers hide from the speed and agility tests... but Moe went from a mediocre performance last year to a good performance this year. Don't know if lot of them duck the 5 on 5 though... will look into that next year.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:


Maybe they use the workouts as their main source for drafting?
kuz and hart killed their workouts last year if im correct.


One thing to note about Wagner is that he declared for the 2017 draft and really struggled at the 2017 NBA combine.


Which is more encouraging... because if you look at his numbers they jumped significantly between 2017 and 2018. A sign of an industrious worker.


He did duck the 5 on 5 portion of the combine this year.


Hmmm... wonder why. I notice that lots of centers hide from the speed and agility tests... but Moe went from a mediocre performance last year to a good performance this year. Don't know if lot of them duck the 5 on 5 though... will look into that next year.


Centers don't usually get highlighted well in those settings.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:


Maybe they use the workouts as their main source for drafting?
kuz and hart killed their workouts last year if im correct.


One thing to note about Wagner is that he declared for the 2017 draft and really struggled at the 2017 NBA combine.


Which is more encouraging... because if you look at his numbers they jumped significantly between 2017 and 2018. A sign of an industrious worker.


He did duck the 5 on 5 portion of the combine this year.


Hmmm... wonder why. I notice that lots of centers hide from the speed and agility tests... but Moe went from a mediocre performance last year to a good performance this year. Don't know if lot of them duck the 5 on 5 though... will look into that next year.


My assumption is that after a disastrous 5 on 5 during the 2017 combine, as a well known player already, he realized his stock could only go down, not up playing.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ch3cky0selff00 wrote:
I still think Mo Wagner isn't being received well due to the lack of "coverage" he got on here.


I really do not understand this thought....Mo Wagner was one of the most well known players in college basketball. Most of the guys that were frequently in this thread could have gave a solid scouting report of Wagner last summer.

ch3cky0selff00 wrote:
Josh Hart and Kyle Kuzma were impressed by his workout -- said he plays with high energy and would be fun to play with.


Maybe I am cynical, but this made me laugh when Pelinka said it. If I was a rookie SG or Combo/PF....I would also be at workouts talking up the Center to be the 1st round pick. This is a zero sum game. Does anyone think that Hart would be encouraging Pelinka to take Kevin Heurter? Kuzma was not hoping Michael Porter Jr. slipped to #25.

ch3cky0selff00 wrote:
To me, though, it seemed a lot of people were focused on perimeter players. I think if front court players were on anyones mind (which is understandable considering how many the Lakers have) this pick would be much less controversial.


75% of the board was excited on draft night because they thought Robert Williams (Center) had slipped to us @ #25. Probably the most common name mentioned and discussed related to the #25 pick before the draft was Mitchell Robinson (Center).


I didn't want us to take Williams. I think he's a bust.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:11 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:


Maybe they use the workouts as their main source for drafting?
kuz and hart killed their workouts last year if im correct.


One thing to note about Wagner is that he declared for the 2017 draft and really struggled at the 2017 NBA combine.


Which is more encouraging... because if you look at his numbers they jumped significantly between 2017 and 2018. A sign of an industrious worker.


That is not really how it works in college....many if not most guys numbers take leaps....especially in their upper classman years....because of players exiting, and more opportunities. Last year, much of the offense went through D.J. Wilson in the paint....and Zak Irvin and Derrick Walton on the perimeter......they all exited, so guys like him and Duncan Robinson get more opportunity. It is the traditional collegiate model of progression.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:11 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:


Maybe they use the workouts as their main source for drafting?
kuz and hart killed their workouts last year if im correct.


One thing to note about Wagner is that he declared for the 2017 draft and really struggled at the 2017 NBA combine.


Which is more encouraging... because if you look at his numbers they jumped significantly between 2017 and 2018. A sign of an industrious worker.


He did duck the 5 on 5 portion of the combine this year.


Hmmm... wonder why. I notice that lots of centers hide from the speed and agility tests... but Moe went from a mediocre performance last year to a good performance this year. Don't know if lot of them duck the 5 on 5 though... will look into that next year.


Centers don't usually get highlighted well in those settings.


Makes sense... I'd only see an Anthony Davis type doing well in that drill.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:14 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:


Maybe they use the workouts as their main source for drafting?
kuz and hart killed their workouts last year if im correct.


One thing to note about Wagner is that he declared for the 2017 draft and really struggled at the 2017 NBA combine.


Which is more encouraging... because if you look at his numbers they jumped significantly between 2017 and 2018. A sign of an industrious worker.


That is not really how it works in college....many if not most guys numbers take leaps....especially in their upper classman years....because of players exiting, and more opportunities. Last year, much of the offense went through D.J. Wilson in the paint....and Zak Irvin and Derrick Walton on the perimeter......they all exited, so guys like him and Duncan Robinson get more opportunity. It is the traditional collegiate model of progression.


I can see numbers leaping in the agility drills... if nothing more than from exploiting the learning curve... but speed or strength seems like something you can't question too much. If you are stronger and faster than you were before... this seems a function of hard work.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:15 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:


Maybe they use the workouts as their main source for drafting?
kuz and hart killed their workouts last year if im correct.


One thing to note about Wagner is that he declared for the 2017 draft and really struggled at the 2017 NBA combine.


Which is more encouraging... because if you look at his numbers they jumped significantly between 2017 and 2018. A sign of an industrious worker.


He did duck the 5 on 5 portion of the combine this year.


Hmmm... wonder why. I notice that lots of centers hide from the speed and agility tests... but Moe went from a mediocre performance last year to a good performance this year. Don't know if lot of them duck the 5 on 5 though... will look into that next year.


Centers don't usually get highlighted well in those settings.


Makes sense... I'd only see an Anthony Davis type doing well in that drill.


no you wouldn't....because I personally would run out there and hold onto AD's leg if he ever thought about risking injury at the combine in the 5 on 5.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:16 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:


Maybe they use the workouts as their main source for drafting?
kuz and hart killed their workouts last year if im correct.


One thing to note about Wagner is that he declared for the 2017 draft and really struggled at the 2017 NBA combine.


Which is more encouraging... because if you look at his numbers they jumped significantly between 2017 and 2018. A sign of an industrious worker.


That is not really how it works in college....many if not most guys numbers take leaps....especially in their upper classman years....because of players exiting, and more opportunities. Last year, much of the offense went through D.J. Wilson in the paint....and Zak Irvin and Derrick Walton on the perimeter......they all exited, so guys like him and Duncan Robinson get more opportunity. It is the traditional collegiate model of progression.


I can see numbers leaping in the agility drills... if nothing more than from exploiting the learning curve... but speed or strength seems like something you can't question too much. If you are stronger and faster than you were before... this seems a function of hard work.


I was wrong....total misunderstanding....was skimming and assumed you meant his on court production.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:18 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:


Maybe they use the workouts as their main source for drafting?
kuz and hart killed their workouts last year if im correct.


One thing to note about Wagner is that he declared for the 2017 draft and really struggled at the 2017 NBA combine.


Which is more encouraging... because if you look at his numbers they jumped significantly between 2017 and 2018. A sign of an industrious worker.


That is not really how it works in college....many if not most guys numbers take leaps....especially in their upper classman years....because of players exiting, and more opportunities. Last year, much of the offense went through D.J. Wilson in the paint....and Zak Irvin and Derrick Walton on the perimeter......they all exited, so guys like him and Duncan Robinson get more opportunity. It is the traditional collegiate model of progression.


I can see numbers leaping in the agility drills... if nothing more than from exploiting the learning curve... but speed or strength seems like something you can't question too much. If you are stronger and faster than you were before... this seems a function of hard work.


I was wrong....total misunderstanding....was skimming and assumed you meant his on court production.


Ah... got it... yeah that's true about the advantage of the older players.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:19 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Josh Hart and Kyle Kuzma were impressed by his workout -- said he plays with high energy and would be fun to play with.

Luke Walton praised Wagners IQ, Passing, Unselfishness, Playing the game the right way etc

To me, though, it seemed a lot of people were focused on perimeter players. I think if front court players were on anyones mind (which is understandable considering how many the Lakers have) this pick would be much less controversial.


1. Wings, guards, then bigs generally speaking, have the most value in the league whether they're drafted or traded for. Wagner wasn't mentioned much because, bigs have to do two things to stick; play like a wing player (best case Anthony Davis here) or defend in space and provide rim protection (best case Clint Capela here). It's more difficult to see Wagner play like a wing.

2. IQ, passing, unselfishness. Isn't that Evans, Okobo, Brunson, etc? I know Jacob Evans shot looked horrible during the Laker workout, but just prior to the draft, he slowed the release and it looked SO much better. Part of the Lakers' philosophy is positionless basketball. Guys like Evans tie into that too. Wagner, not so much.

3. The fact that seems like more of an intangibles pick than a skills pick, is what surprises me the most. Wagner is a hell of a shooter, but he wasn't the only elite shooter there. The Lakers already drafted Svi. Shamet as a 4th or 5th option guy would be scary too, and at least I don't think he's as much of a liability because he's not expected to protect the paint like Mo should.

For Pete's sake, Shamet looked like he couldn't get his shot off during PreDraft scrimmages, but he is the 100th percentile in contested halfcourt shooting. 55.6%FG. All he has to do is spot up.

I hope he surprises on the defensive end this summer. Not that Kuzma's defense was that great, but at least you can see how lightfooted he is and he was just really bouncy. You can build defense off of that.


Not looking at numbers but it seems most centers in today's NBA are average defenders with the exception of a few.

Has the importance of rim protection lessened with more offensive emphasis on 3 pt shooting and increased pace?

For a center Mo is fairly light footed and bouncy. Hopefully they can also build on that.

Between a PF and C at least one has to provide defense and likewise one has to be able to shoot otherwise spacing would be terrible. If Randle is on the team then the C needs to be able to take the role as the shooter i.e. Wagner.
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