Official 2018 NBA Draft Thread: Lakers select Moe Wagner (#25), Isaac Bonga (#39), and Svi Mykhailiuk (#47) - see 1st page for draft links
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justsomelakerfan
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
@hmfaigen wrote:
The Lakers will be working out six more players on Tuesday morning:

Emmett Naar - Saint Mary's
Barry Brown Jr. - Kansas State
Fletcher Magee - Wofford
Gabe DeVoe - Clemson
Duncan Robinson - Michigan
Obi Enechionyia - Temple


who


Duncan Robinson >>>>


who
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:40 pm    Post subject:

cthroatgtr wrote:
Trae Young will be long gone before the Lakers pick why is anyone debating him in this thread? It will be curious where the Lakers go with their pick or if they even keep it. If a team would take Deng, perhaps they let the pick go (not saying anyone would). That would allow the team to keep Randle and sign two which would be a pretty good haul. All honestly a pipe dream but why not.


So we can talk about trades/FA but not the draft in the draft thread?
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:40 pm    Post subject:

A solid, comprehensive breakdown of Jacob Evans' unassuming, but effective game: The Step Back.
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44TheLogo
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:40 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Take away half his usage and is he even a lottery talent?


Yes. I see you're making your point on bad shots, but not taking into the context of why the shots were so bad. The fact that he shot 36% behind the arc, almost always contested, with over 10 3-point attempts per game, tells me how he was 90% of the entire offense, and his teammates couldn't even help him out.

There were times throughout the season, where Trae basically had 1.5 guys on him past 30', and the rest of the team had to go 4 on 4. They couldn't create anything despite the extra space. That's how bad it was. Trae's contested 3-point shots had more value than the team actually going 4 on 4.

Fortunately I have some information about him attacking.

32.7% of his total field goal attempts were at the rim. Most PGs are around 25. He can get there, that's not the problem. 53.7% finishing at the rim? Definitely sub-par, but that doesn't account for the 39.8% for all other 2-point areas, which is, above average. Unfortunately I don't have a shot chart that exploits his floater game, but it's no different adjustment.

Going further into analytics, only 11% of his shots at the rim were assisted, 3% all other 2pt range, 27% behind the arc.

A good prospect is around 35/10/90. The volume of individual shot creation that he had to do was off the chart, and there's no reason why even a team like the Orlando Magic, who at least has Vucevic, would save him so much energy expenditure on that shot creation, because he can actually do something with the basketball.

Lonzo didn't struggle because of context. He struggled because he actually lacked the skills and experience.

Trae, isn't lacking the skills and experience.


Couldn’t? Or he didn’t allow them to? That’s a valid question. We’ve seen this be used as an excuse before and sometimes it’s proved to be valid, others it’s been proved that the teammates were being marginalized by their own superstar teammate. That last two #1 picks have somewhat been case studys for each side of the argument. That’s what makes Young such an intriguing prospect, he could end up thriving with less attention and responsibility or he may not.


both of those #1s didn't make the tournament.

Oklahoma's roster didn't change much from last year to this year. basically swapped senior guard Jordan Woodard for Trae Young.

Offensive efficiency went from 118th in the nation to 37th.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:42 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

Couldn’t? Or he didn’t allow them to? That’s a valid question. We’ve seen this be used as an excuse before and sometimes it’s proved to be valid, others it’s been proved that the teammates were being marginalized by their own superstar teammate. That last two #1 picks have somewhat been case studys for each side of the argument. That’s what makes Young such an intriguing prospect, he could end up thriving with less attention and responsibility or he may not.


Is this the Fultz question too? Because Thybulle and Crisp weren't great shot creators when Fultz was off the floor too.

Let me emphasize, how badly the teammates couldn't even set Trae up for a shot.

Total amount of assisted 2-point shots for Trae Young, all season long: 1.

Fultz assisted shots: 17/12/55.
Trae Young assisted shots: 11/3/27

I don't know what else to tell you. If Oklahoma could actually afford to rest Trae Young, they would have, because he hit a wall with that 37% USG rate, and he's physically not Russell Westbrook.

#5 scoring team in the nation

Shrug.
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
crazylakerfan001 wrote:
epak wrote:
How were we wrong when we got the guy we wanted at 2?


You were wrong because you were not able to identify the talent in Donovan Mitchell.

Tell ya what, You identify the best player in this draft and exactly 1 year from now we will evaluate. Ill bookmark this page.


The best player in the draft isn’t identified after 1 year. Lonzo has a chance to be the best player in his draft just like the best player in this class may not be the best in 1 year. Some guys take more time.


Obviously that's not the case for loco fan 1.
For fun:
Year from now: Wendell Carter.
Career: JJJ

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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:46 pm    Post subject:

justsomelakerfan wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
@hmfaigen wrote:
The Lakers will be working out six more players on Tuesday morning:

Emmett Naar - Saint Mary's
Barry Brown Jr. - Kansas State
Fletcher Magee - Wofford
Gabe DeVoe - Clemson
Duncan Robinson - Michigan
Obi Enechionyia - Temple


who


Duncan Robinson >>>>


who


Shooter.
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44TheLogo
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject:

fletcher magee is the better shooter

vs UNC

vs GT (no josh okogie in this game)
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Last edited by 44TheLogo on Mon May 21, 2018 3:51 pm; edited 2 times in total
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:

Couldn’t? Or he didn’t allow them to? That’s a valid question. We’ve seen this be used as an excuse before and sometimes it’s proved to be valid, others it’s been proved that the teammates were being marginalized by their own superstar teammate. That last two #1 picks have somewhat been case studys for each side of the argument. That’s what makes Young such an intriguing prospect, he could end up thriving with less attention and responsibility or he may not.


Is this the Fultz question too? Because Thybulle and Crisp weren't great shot creators when Fultz was off the floor too.

Let me emphasize, how badly the teammates couldn't even set Trae up for a shot.

Total amount of assisted 2-point shots for Trae Young, all season long: 1.

Fultz assisted shots: 17/12/55.
Trae Young assisted shots: 11/3/27

I don't know what else to tell you. If Oklahoma could actually afford to rest Trae Young, they would have, because he hit a wall with that 37% USG rate, and he's physically not Russell Westbrook.

#5 scoring team in the nation

Shrug.


I’m just saying Fultz marginalized his teammates. Crisp and thybulle especially. That may have been the case with Young although I’m not as confident. But I am confident he’s a bad defender at the next level so he’s a tough prospect to figure out.
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:51 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

All valid points. But I feel like if you're not going to provide anything defensively or on the boards you need to be a prolific scorer and if you significantly reduce his usage, he's not that. The shots he was taking were so, so, so bad man and I can't blame it all on his teammates. I've truly never seen anyone take such horrible shots and so often, ever. Not even on ameatur night at 24. It's going to be a huge obstacle for him to learn how to take good shots, that's not something that's just going to click overnight for him. He'll need to wind up somewhere with perfect circumstances for him to grow or he'll struggle severely.


So, you say he didn't go to the rim enough, and I literally point out how he's well above the average in that regards to his total shot attempts.

Then, you're going back to the argument of bad shots, but still not going back to the context of why they were taken.

Nor that Oklahoma was #5 in total offensive PPG.

I don't understand what these "perfect circumstances" are. If Trae Young was next to Lonzo Ball, Laker offense explodes. Unlike Isaiah Thomas, he'll actually pull gravity 25' away from the hoop.
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:52 pm    Post subject:

Kuz > Mitchell
Hitman > Mitchell
Zo > Mitchell

Hate me now.
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:55 pm    Post subject:

€H£M£$TR¥ wrote:
Kuz > Mitchell
Hitman > Mitchell
Zo > Mitchell

Hate me now.


Oddly, I love you.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:55 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
. But I am confident he’s a bad defender at the next level so he’s a tough prospect to figure out.


Yeah, he's a bad defender. Just like Nash. Just like Curry. All of them have to out-offense their defense.

I just think, even ignoring the numbers, Trae Young's skill level really stands out.
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:58 pm    Post subject:

I am sure that Trae will have his struggles for his first season, and some other more "ready" player from this year's class will be ROY and hyped as a future star. But by year 3 and on, I would put my money on Trae being recognized as the best player in this class.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
I am sure that Trae will have his struggles for his first season, and some other more "ready" player from this year's class will be ROY and hyped as a future star. But by year 3 and on, I would put my money on Trae being recognized as the best player in this class.


I just think about where Nash and Curry were by age and Trae is so significantly far ahead...
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:00 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
€H£M£$TR¥ wrote:
Kuz > Mitchell
Hitman > Mitchell
Zo > Mitchell

Hate me now.


Oddly, I love you.


Damn right... damn right. The league has no idea the fight in our dogs. They all will soon discover our defensive ferocity.
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manlisten
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:05 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:

All valid points. But I feel like if you're not going to provide anything defensively or on the boards you need to be a prolific scorer and if you significantly reduce his usage, he's not that. The shots he was taking were so, so, so bad man and I can't blame it all on his teammates. I've truly never seen anyone take such horrible shots and so often, ever. Not even on ameatur night at 24. It's going to be a huge obstacle for him to learn how to take good shots, that's not something that's just going to click overnight for him. He'll need to wind up somewhere with perfect circumstances for him to grow or he'll struggle severely.


So, you say he didn't go to the rim enough, and I literally point out how he's well above the average in that regards to his total shot attempts.

Then, you're going back to the argument of bad shots, but still not going back to the context of why they were taken.

Nor that Oklahoma was #5 in total offensive PPG.

I don't understand what these "perfect circumstances" are. If Trae Young was next to Lonzo Ball, Laker offense explodes. Unlike Isaiah Thomas, he'll actually pull gravity 25' away from the hoop.


I didn't say he doesn't get to the rim enough, I said I've seen him struggle mightily to beat his man off the dribble and settle for contested jumpers. And I'm not buying the teammate excuse for his shot selection. I've seen him in a triple threat against a bigger defender with his hand up and try to launch over him from deep, repeatedly and countless other just stupifying shot attempts. Would you say Steph's teammates were better or worse at Davidson? He didn't shoot nearly as poorly. Neither did Fultz. I don't think it's a great sign when a prospect needs so many excuses to explain away all his flaws, which there are many. If Trae's not on a team where he can dominate the ball and play through his numerous mistakes I don't see great things for him in the NBA.
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:10 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
. But I am confident he’s a bad defender at the next level so he’s a tough prospect to figure out.


Yeah, he's a bad defender. Just like Nash. Just like Curry. All of them have to out-offense their defense.

I just think, even ignoring the numbers, Trae Young's skill level really stands out.


Both taller. Both smarter IMO. If you’re gonna be small you gotta be smart to be distuptive off the ball, play correct angles, and position your body so you can overcome the physical deficiencies and not be a liability. Curry is no liability defensively because he’s great off the ball and I don’t think he’s as bad on the ball as most. Im not confident in Young not being a liability.
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:30 pm    Post subject:

QTFOS Trae Young edition (in the making):

Keep them coming! Kid is going to wreck defenses!

What he does with the ball, his gravitation pull on the court is nothing like the NCAA has seen from a freshman.

What he's going to do with in the NBA playing downhill and in pick'n'roll with the NBA spacing is gonna be outrageous.
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:37 pm    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
32 wrote:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdvV05MU0AANleX.jpg


Oh (bleep). Kuz got Dlo's seat from last year's workouts. A Kuz trade is imminent...


Haha i was thinking the same thing! Only thing missing from this picture is some oranges.
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:42 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
32 wrote:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdvV05MU0AANleX.jpg


Oh (bleep). Kuz got Dlo's seat from last year's workouts. A Kuz trade is imminent...


Haha i was thinking the same thing! Only thing missing from this picture is some oranges.


Magic looks like he had a big lunch and needs to excuse himself
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject:

justsomelakerfan wrote:
@hmfaigen wrote:
The Lakers will be working out six more players on Tuesday morning:

Emmett Naar - Saint Mary's
Barry Brown Jr. - Kansas State
Fletcher Magee - Wofford
Gabe DeVoe - Clemson
Duncan Robinson - Michigan
Obi Enechionyia - Temple


who


It’s exactly what I said earlier.

We are so gonna draft someone we never heard of and then love him after summer League.
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:03 pm    Post subject:

👇🏾👇🏾 What he said!

LakersForever123 wrote:
Melvin Frazier for me at #25.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:25 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
. But I am confident he’s a bad defender at the next level so he’s a tough prospect to figure out.


Yeah, he's a bad defender. Just like Nash. Just like Curry. All of them have to out-offense their defense.

I just think, even ignoring the numbers, Trae Young's skill level really stands out.


Both taller. Both smarter IMO. If you’re gonna be small you gotta be smart to be distuptive off the ball, play correct angles, and position your body so you can overcome the physical deficiencies and not be a liability. Curry is no liability defensively because he’s great off the ball and I don’t think he’s as bad on the ball as most. Im not confident in Young not being a liability.


By age? Totally disagree. Being 6'3" help Nash defend chairs. Curry had to build his body to get where he is now, and he's still headhunted. But no one uses skill by age as a frame of reference.
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:25 pm    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
@hmfaigen wrote:
The Lakers will be working out six more players on Tuesday morning:

Emmett Naar - Saint Mary's
Barry Brown Jr. - Kansas State
Fletcher Magee - Wofford
Gabe DeVoe - Clemson
Duncan Robinson - Michigan
Obi Enechionyia - Temple


who


It’s exactly what I said earlier.

We are so gonna draft someone we never heard of and then love him after summer League.


The best smoke screens
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