Official 2018 NBA Draft Thread: Lakers select Mo Wagner (#25), Isaac Bonga (#39), and Svi Mikhuhlink (#47) - see 1st page for draft links
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pio2u
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:09 am    Post subject:

*This is very intriguing and interesting, any thoughts on this?
This is the kid that left WKU and sat out the season. Kind of reminds me of Hassan Whiteside. He has a ton of upside but is he a head-case??

Los Angeles Lakers select Mitchell Robinson in ESPN NBA Mock Draft

Quote:
In the latest NBA Mock Draft from ESPN, the Los Angeles Lakers select Mitchell Robinson with the No. 26 overall pick.


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20743631/five-star-recruit-mitchell-robinson-leaves-western-kentucky-hilltoppers-focus-nba-draft
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:44 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Adkindo, I would be fine with Jevon Carter with the Denver pick. But I'd be hesitant to take him in the 1st round, as I just think there will be better prospects available, even among seasoned college players.


That is cool....you will not be the first or last to have failed in your evaluation of Carter. I have said from the beginning, it would be foolish for anyone to expect me to have an unbias opinion as it relates to Carter. I will wait until the mocks shake out to see where he lands to put effort in defending my position. I see some of the cons some of the sites claim about him such as his average wingspan, and that just tells me they are not watching Carter, because that is not what makes him special.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:46 am    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
*This is very intriguing and interesting, any thoughts on this?
This is the kid that left WKU and sat out the season. Kind of reminds me of Hassan Whiteside. He has a ton of upside but is he a head-case??

Los Angeles Lakers select Mitchell Robinson in ESPN NBA Mock Draft

Quote:
In the latest NBA Mock Draft from ESPN, the Los Angeles Lakers select Mitchell Robinson with the No. 26 overall pick.


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20743631/five-star-recruit-mitchell-robinson-leaves-western-kentucky-hilltoppers-focus-nba-draft


if Robinson performs well in pre draft workouts, I would expect him to be off the board long before our pick......and if he shows poorly after a not playing college basketball, I am not sure we should be that interested. It is kind of a catch-22.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:23 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Adkindo, I would be fine with Jevon Carter with the Denver pick. But I'd be hesitant to take him in the 1st round, as I just think there will be better prospects available, even among seasoned college players.


That is cool....you will not be the first or last to have failed in your evaluation of Carter. I have said from the beginning, it would be foolish for anyone to expect me to have an unbias opinion as it relates to Carter. I will wait until the mocks shake out to see where he lands to put effort in defending my position. I see some of the cons some of the sites claim about him such as his average wingspan, and that just tells me they are not watching Carter, because that is not what makes him special.


You've certainly seen him a lot this season. Has he gotten better this season? I did look at his stats, and, just statistically, you could make a case based on advanced numbers that he was better last season. I know his usage looks like it's spiked and his assists have certainly spiked. But I think there's a very real chance that he's a negative out there offensively, at the NBA level. Of course, you could say that about many players, so I don't mean to single him out.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Interesting that Holiday has moved into the 1st round on the DX Mock. Seems like he won't be there with the Denver pick. If we get Holiday or Trier out of this draft somehow, I'll be happy. I feel good about both of them.

Adkindo, I would be fine with Jevon Carter with the Denver pick. But I'd be hesitant to take him in the 1st round, as I just think there will be better prospects available, even among seasoned college players.

Is Jalen Brunson expected to declare, or is he one of those where we don't know? I mean, he could win POY, so he might never have a better time to go. I could definitely be talked into him.

I'm a UCLA fan and I'm incredibly happy Aaron is a Bruin and is having a great final season in Westwood, but the DX guys are being prisoners of the moment. Holiday is pesky on defense, but there's more activity than achievement on that end, and I still see a turnover prone SG in a PGs body. He can be a heck of an off-ball/secondary creator backup guard for a decade, which would be a great pick at the back end of the 1st in most drafts. But the 2018 class could be another deep draft depending on who declares, and there'll be a handful of higher upside young guys available along with a much better defender in Carter, better creators like Ponds, and taller shooters like Shamet and Shake that Holiday is going to have to leapfrog to get into that top-25 range.

I don't know that he's improved on his weaknesses that much.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:31 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Interesting that Holiday has moved into the 1st round on the DX Mock. Seems like he won't be there with the Denver pick. If we get Holiday or Trier out of this draft somehow, I'll be happy. I feel good about both of them.

Adkindo, I would be fine with Jevon Carter with the Denver pick. But I'd be hesitant to take him in the 1st round, as I just think there will be better prospects available, even among seasoned college players.

Is Jalen Brunson expected to declare, or is he one of those where we don't know? I mean, he could win POY, so he might never have a better time to go. I could definitely be talked into him.

I'm a UCLA fan and I'm incredibly happy Aaron is a Bruin and is having a great final season in Westwood, but the DX guys are being prisoners of the moment. Holiday is pesky on defense, but there's more activity than achievement on that end, and I still see a turnover prone SG in a PGs body. He can be a heck of an off-ball/secondary creator backup guard for a decade, which would be a great pick at the back end of the 1st in most drafts. But the 2018 class could be another deep draft depending on who declares, and there'll be a handful of higher upside young guys available along with a much better defender in Carter, better creators like Ponds, and taller shooters like Shamet and Shake that Holiday is going to have to leapfrog to get into that top-25 range.

I don't know that he's improved on his weaknesses that much.


i haven't watched holiday much, but his advanced stats jump off the page to me. i've been scanning for sleepers based on advanced stats and filtered seasons by the following categories:

usage >= 25%
TS% >= .600
STL% >= 2%
TO% <= 20%

only one player met those requirements of all power conferences, and that was Aaron Holiday. Another notable who met those requirements was Ben Rubin's (Kaiser Lindeman) favorite sleeper, Tookie Brown.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Adkindo, I would be fine with Jevon Carter with the Denver pick. But I'd be hesitant to take him in the 1st round, as I just think there will be better prospects available, even among seasoned college players.


That is cool....you will not be the first or last to have failed in your evaluation of Carter. I have said from the beginning, it would be foolish for anyone to expect me to have an unbias opinion as it relates to Carter. I will wait until the mocks shake out to see where he lands to put effort in defending my position. I see some of the cons some of the sites claim about him such as his average wingspan, and that just tells me they are not watching Carter, because that is not what makes him special.


Average wingspan? It's an inch longer than Isaiah who I remember you clowning last game for his size.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Adkindo, I would be fine with Jevon Carter with the Denver pick. But I'd be hesitant to take him in the 1st round, as I just think there will be better prospects available, even among seasoned college players.


That is cool....you will not be the first or last to have failed in your evaluation of Carter. I have said from the beginning, it would be foolish for anyone to expect me to have an unbias opinion as it relates to Carter. I will wait until the mocks shake out to see where he lands to put effort in defending my position. I see some of the cons some of the sites claim about him such as his average wingspan, and that just tells me they are not watching Carter, because that is not what makes him special.


You've certainly seen him a lot this season. Has he gotten better this season? I did look at his stats, and, just statistically, you could make a case based on advanced numbers that he was better last season. I know his usage looks like it's spiked and his assists have certainly spiked. But I think there's a very real chance that he's a negative out there offensively, at the NBA level. Of course, you could say that about many players, so I don't mean to single him out.


I am not sure why he would be a negative on offense in the NBA? He has a legitimate pure jump shot and his 3 FG% has remained steady @ 39% over the last two years. He is in the 92nd percentile on unguarded catch and shoot possessions, and the 91st percentile in overall catch and shoot possessions this season. I do not know the #, but per the eye test, he is one of the better shooters off the dribble in college basketball.

He gets dinged this year on finishing at the rim, as his %'s attempted are down, as are his successful finishes....but that is more about the team on the floor than Carter himself. WVU is a much worse 3 point shooting team this season which has a negative impact on spacing....the lanes simply are not there. Last season, we would put Nate Adrian at the #5, and all 5 players on the court were average to above average 3 point shooters.....this season we are running a lot of our offense through Sags Konate who is a skilled post player who mostly operates within 15 feet of the basket. Also, Carter played PG last season, but he got to play a lot more off the ball because Adrian, Tarik Phillip and Teyvon Myers could facilitate....but those guys are all gone, and Carter is more locked in the primary facilitator role this season.

His likely offensive role in the NBA is playing off ball some on offense (while playing the #1 on defense), knocking down jump shots and acting as a secondary initiator/facilitator. I do not see the path to him being a negative on offense.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:15 am    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Adkindo, I would be fine with Jevon Carter with the Denver pick. But I'd be hesitant to take him in the 1st round, as I just think there will be better prospects available, even among seasoned college players.


That is cool....you will not be the first or last to have failed in your evaluation of Carter. I have said from the beginning, it would be foolish for anyone to expect me to have an unbias opinion as it relates to Carter. I will wait until the mocks shake out to see where he lands to put effort in defending my position. I see some of the cons some of the sites claim about him such as his average wingspan, and that just tells me they are not watching Carter, because that is not what makes him special.


Average wingspan? It's an inch longer than Isaiah who I remember you clowning last game for his size.


I am guessing you do not know the definition for average wingspan? It is within 2 inches of the individuals height. To say an individual has average wingspan is not a positive or negative, but a statement of fact based on human anatomy.

Also, maybe my memory has failed me, but I do not recall discussing IT's wingspan.....what exactly did I say?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Adkindo, I would be fine with Jevon Carter with the Denver pick. But I'd be hesitant to take him in the 1st round, as I just think there will be better prospects available, even among seasoned college players.


That is cool....you will not be the first or last to have failed in your evaluation of Carter. I have said from the beginning, it would be foolish for anyone to expect me to have an unbias opinion as it relates to Carter. I will wait until the mocks shake out to see where he lands to put effort in defending my position. I see some of the cons some of the sites claim about him such as his average wingspan, and that just tells me they are not watching Carter, because that is not what makes him special.


Average wingspan? It's an inch longer than Isaiah who I remember you clowning last game for his size.


I am guessing you do not know the definition for average wingspan? It is within 2 inches of the individuals height. To say an individual has average wingspan is not a positive or negative, but a statement of fact based on human anatomy.

Also, maybe my memory has failed me, but I do not recall discussing IT's wingspan.....what exactly did I say?


average wingspan for the general population is within 2 inches of height sure, but among NBA players having average wingspan means you have t-rex arms
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:31 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Adkindo, I would be fine with Jevon Carter with the Denver pick. But I'd be hesitant to take him in the 1st round, as I just think there will be better prospects available, even among seasoned college players.


That is cool....you will not be the first or last to have failed in your evaluation of Carter. I have said from the beginning, it would be foolish for anyone to expect me to have an unbias opinion as it relates to Carter. I will wait until the mocks shake out to see where he lands to put effort in defending my position. I see some of the cons some of the sites claim about him such as his average wingspan, and that just tells me they are not watching Carter, because that is not what makes him special.


Average wingspan? It's an inch longer than Isaiah who I remember you clowning last game for his size.


I am guessing you do not know the definition for average wingspan? It is within 2 inches of the individuals height. To say an individual has average wingspan is not a positive or negative, but a statement of fact based on human anatomy.

Also, maybe my memory has failed me, but I do not recall discussing IT's wingspan.....what exactly did I say?


You were making fun of his size with many others on that thread... Size is relevant in basketball, and I've made comments myself about how I wish Randle was taller to complement his skill set... I just found it odd that you would be dismissive of Isaiah due to his size, yet not consider it an issue with Jevon. True Jevon's size is not as problematic as Isaiah's but it seems if you can believe that your guy can succeed despite his shortcomings then in fairness you shouldn't join in on the bash IT for his size bandwagon.

If Isaiah or Jevon's play is lacking... that's what should be the target... and I simply felt like many were taking cheap shots about his size and not focusing on the poor play which of course was fair game.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:33 am    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Adkindo, I would be fine with Jevon Carter with the Denver pick. But I'd be hesitant to take him in the 1st round, as I just think there will be better prospects available, even among seasoned college players.


That is cool....you will not be the first or last to have failed in your evaluation of Carter. I have said from the beginning, it would be foolish for anyone to expect me to have an unbias opinion as it relates to Carter. I will wait until the mocks shake out to see where he lands to put effort in defending my position. I see some of the cons some of the sites claim about him such as his average wingspan, and that just tells me they are not watching Carter, because that is not what makes him special.


Average wingspan? It's an inch longer than Isaiah who I remember you clowning last game for his size.


I am guessing you do not know the definition for average wingspan? It is within 2 inches of the individuals height. To say an individual has average wingspan is not a positive or negative, but a statement of fact based on human anatomy.

Also, maybe my memory has failed me, but I do not recall discussing IT's wingspan.....what exactly did I say?


average wingspan for the general population is within 2 inches of height sure, but among NBA players having average wingspan means you have t-rex arms


i will be interested to see his actual measurements @ the combine....I have seen the 6'3.5" wingspan mentioned in an article on 247 Sports, but I have seen WVU fans claim it as false or an estimate.....not an actual measurement.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:39 am    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Adkindo, I would be fine with Jevon Carter with the Denver pick. But I'd be hesitant to take him in the 1st round, as I just think there will be better prospects available, even among seasoned college players.


That is cool....you will not be the first or last to have failed in your evaluation of Carter. I have said from the beginning, it would be foolish for anyone to expect me to have an unbias opinion as it relates to Carter. I will wait until the mocks shake out to see where he lands to put effort in defending my position. I see some of the cons some of the sites claim about him such as his average wingspan, and that just tells me they are not watching Carter, because that is not what makes him special.


Average wingspan? It's an inch longer than Isaiah who I remember you clowning last game for his size.


I am guessing you do not know the definition for average wingspan? It is within 2 inches of the individuals height. To say an individual has average wingspan is not a positive or negative, but a statement of fact based on human anatomy.

Also, maybe my memory has failed me, but I do not recall discussing IT's wingspan.....what exactly did I say?


You were making fun of his size with many others on that thread... Size is relevant in basketball, and I've made comments myself about how I wish Randle was taller to complement his skill set... I just found it odd that you would be dismissive of Isaiah due to his size, yet not consider it an issue with Jevon. True Jevon's size is not as problematic as Isaiah's but it seems if you can believe that your guy can succeed despite his shortcomings then in fairness you shouldn't join in on the bash IT for his size bandwagon.

If Isaiah or Jevon's play is lacking... that's what should be the target... and I simply felt like many were taking cheap shots about his size and not focusing on the poor play which of course was fair game.


so my memory was correct, I did not comment on IT's "wingspan"? Are we really saying that Carter, who is nearly a half foot taller than IT, is in the same conversation as Thomas in regards to size? IT's size is a problem on defense and always has been.....that has yet to be the case for Carter.

Also, I was not joining any bandwagon.....until Phil reminded me that IT was a fellow alum, I was driving that thing.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:18 am    Post subject:

https://twitter.com/DeAnthonyMelton/status/966365712401842176

de'anthony melton has withdrawn from USC
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:27 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Adkindo, I would be fine with Jevon Carter with the Denver pick. But I'd be hesitant to take him in the 1st round, as I just think there will be better prospects available, even among seasoned college players.


That is cool....you will not be the first or last to have failed in your evaluation of Carter. I have said from the beginning, it would be foolish for anyone to expect me to have an unbias opinion as it relates to Carter. I will wait until the mocks shake out to see where he lands to put effort in defending my position. I see some of the cons some of the sites claim about him such as his average wingspan, and that just tells me they are not watching Carter, because that is not what makes him special.


Average wingspan? It's an inch longer than Isaiah who I remember you clowning last game for his size.


I am guessing you do not know the definition for average wingspan? It is within 2 inches of the individuals height. To say an individual has average wingspan is not a positive or negative, but a statement of fact based on human anatomy.

Also, maybe my memory has failed me, but I do not recall discussing IT's wingspan.....what exactly did I say?


You were making fun of his size with many others on that thread... Size is relevant in basketball, and I've made comments myself about how I wish Randle was taller to complement his skill set... I just found it odd that you would be dismissive of Isaiah due to his size, yet not consider it an issue with Jevon. True Jevon's size is not as problematic as Isaiah's but it seems if you can believe that your guy can succeed despite his shortcomings then in fairness you shouldn't join in on the bash IT for his size bandwagon.

If Isaiah or Jevon's play is lacking... that's what should be the target... and I simply felt like many were taking cheap shots about his size and not focusing on the poor play which of course was fair game.


so my memory was correct, I did not comment on IT's "wingspan"? Are we really saying that Carter, who is nearly a half foot taller than IT, is in the same conversation as Thomas in regards to size? IT's size is a problem on defense and always has been.....that has yet to be the case for Carter.

Also, I was not joining any bandwagon.....until Phil reminded me that IT was a fellow alum, I was driving that thing.


Not really... when having a discussion about size and defense, wingspan is just as crucial as height. When's the last time someone blocked a pass with their face?

All you needed to say was that Carter's size has never been a problem on defense... don't think anyone watches WV games as you do, so it's not like any are going to refute it.

And all you needed to say about Isaiah was that you thought he sucked against Minny. Isaiah's height didn't cause us to lose... but his bad shooting contributed. If Isaiah fails for us, it won't be his height... it will be his hip.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:27 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
pio2u wrote:
*This is very intriguing and interesting, any thoughts on this?
This is the kid that left WKU and sat out the season. Kind of reminds me of Hassan Whiteside. He has a ton of upside but is he a head-case??

Los Angeles Lakers select Mitchell Robinson in ESPN NBA Mock Draft

Quote:
In the latest NBA Mock Draft from ESPN, the Los Angeles Lakers select Mitchell Robinson with the No. 26 overall pick.


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20743631/five-star-recruit-mitchell-robinson-leaves-western-kentucky-hilltoppers-focus-nba-draft


if Robinson performs well in pre draft workouts, I would expect him to be off the board long before our pick......and if he shows poorly after a not playing college basketball, I am not sure we should be that interested. It is kind of a catch-22.

You are right. This kid is still very raw but his athleticism is off the charts.
He was rated five stars coming out of HS.

I wonder who is his trainer and who else does he workout with.
There will be more info on him as we edge closer to the draft.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:21 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Interesting that Holiday has moved into the 1st round on the DX Mock. Seems like he won't be there with the Denver pick. If we get Holiday or Trier out of this draft somehow, I'll be happy. I feel good about both of them.

Adkindo, I would be fine with Jevon Carter with the Denver pick. But I'd be hesitant to take him in the 1st round, as I just think there will be better prospects available, even among seasoned college players.

Is Jalen Brunson expected to declare, or is he one of those where we don't know? I mean, he could win POY, so he might never have a better time to go. I could definitely be talked into him.

I'm a UCLA fan and I'm incredibly happy Aaron is a Bruin and is having a great final season in Westwood, but the DX guys are being prisoners of the moment. Holiday is pesky on defense, but there's more activity than achievement on that end, and I still see a turnover prone SG in a PGs body. He can be a heck of an off-ball/secondary creator backup guard for a decade, which would be a great pick at the back end of the 1st in most drafts. But the 2018 class could be another deep draft depending on who declares, and there'll be a handful of higher upside young guys available along with a much better defender in Carter, better creators like Ponds, and taller shooters like Shamet and Shake that Holiday is going to have to leapfrog to get into that top-25 range.

I don't know that he's improved on his weaknesses that much.


I don't think he's improved on his weaknesses much. He's still TO prone as you have mentioned.

I'm finding it difficult to find a potential starter in the late 1st. We talk about Carter, KBD, Milton, Shamet, and I just don't see it. I was able to see it with Hart, even before the rebounding kicked in. Kuzma and TB, I didn't expect, but I never rule out guys that work on their games to be future starters down the line. Both guys are the right archetypes at their positions, because they can shoot.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:25 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Adkindo, I would be fine with Jevon Carter with the Denver pick. But I'd be hesitant to take him in the 1st round, as I just think there will be better prospects available, even among seasoned college players.


That is cool....you will not be the first or last to have failed in your evaluation of Carter. I have said from the beginning, it would be foolish for anyone to expect me to have an unbias opinion as it relates to Carter. I will wait until the mocks shake out to see where he lands to put effort in defending my position. I see some of the cons some of the sites claim about him such as his average wingspan, and that just tells me they are not watching Carter, because that is not what makes him special.


Average wingspan? It's an inch longer than Isaiah who I remember you clowning last game for his size.


I'm not as high on Carter. He plays physical defense, built like a brick and keeps up laterally. But 6'3" wingspan is barely a quarter of an inch wingspan over Isaiah Thomas. It's not even average.

I think NCAA guards get away with a lot more physical play at the NCAA level and it doesn't necessarily translate to the NBA level. Even the physical defense in the playoffs is left to the wing players, but never guards, especially point guards.

But as I've mentioned in another post, it's difficult for me to find a future potential starter at the Lakers' picks. Do I think Carter is that guy? No. Do I think Aaron Holiday is that guy? No. KBD? No. Shamet? No. Milton? No. At least I could see some of that starter leak into early 2nd round mocks from last season with Hart, Tony Bradley, and a few others.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:27 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
I don't think he's improved on his weaknesses much. He's still TO prone as you have mentioned.

I'm finding it difficult to find a potential starter in the late 1st. We talk about Carter, KBD, Milton, Shamet, and I just don't see it. I was able to see it with Hart, even before the rebounding kicked in. Kuzma and TB, I didn't expect, but I never rule out guys that work on their games to be future starters down the line. Both guys are the right archetypes at their positions, because they can shoot.


to be fair, isn't it kind of generally accepted that your fortunate to find a rotation player later in the 1st? Starters are not the norm....or at least that would be my assumption.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

Not really... when having a discussion about size and defense, wingspan is just as crucial as height. When's the last time someone blocked a pass with their face?


Wingspan
Standing reach
Weight
Height

If you're a 6' guard, that WS better be around 6'5"
6'4"+ is right at 6'8"
6'8"+ is right at 7'
7'+ is at 7'3"+

The list of guys with near equal wingspan to height isn't good either. The Lakers were really good at this:
Sasha Vujacic
Jordan Farmar
Luke Walton

The only guy I've seen really make it is Stephen Curry. 6'2", 6'3.5". Dude had to be the Top 3 shooter in the L for awhile (before Curry was Curry) to prove he could stay on the floor.

Sucks too, because if Carter had a near 6'10" wingspan like Marcus Smart, then he'd be an elite NBA defender.

But half of foot of wingspan at the NBA level? Can't switch. Can't block passing lanes. Can't reach in on the perimeter. Can't strip under the hoop. All right off the bat.

There's just too many games in an NBA season to rely on 100% commitment to defense using feet/wheels/motor game in and game out.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
I'm not as high on Carter. He plays physical defense, built like a brick and keeps up laterally. But 6'3" wingspan is barely a quarter of an inch wingspan over Isaiah Thomas. It's not even average.

I think NCAA guards get away with a lot more physical play at the NCAA level and it doesn't necessarily translate to the NBA level. Even the physical defense in the playoffs is left to the wing players, but never guards, especially point guards.


where are you getting the 6'3" number? As I said earlier, I have seen others question it when it was printed in a 247 article earlier this year. Call it average or pedestrian or whatever you choose, but 6'3" wingspan is very normal for a 6'2" man. I have heard Zwicker and Gribanov both recently speak to why they think his physical style, defense and shooting will translate well to the NBA.

Here is a short clip from Gribanov responding on Carter...he is tough, but fair.

https://player.fm/series/the-stepien-nba-draft-podcast/sleepers-with-mike-and-jackson?t=599
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
I don't think he's improved on his weaknesses much. He's still TO prone as you have mentioned.

I'm finding it difficult to find a potential starter in the late 1st. We talk about Carter, KBD, Milton, Shamet, and I just don't see it. I was able to see it with Hart, even before the rebounding kicked in. Kuzma and TB, I didn't expect, but I never rule out guys that work on their games to be future starters down the line. Both guys are the right archetypes at their positions, because they can shoot.


to be fair, isn't it kind of generally accepted that your fortunate to find a rotation player later in the 1st? Starters are not the norm....or at least that would be my assumption.


I think that's a limiting belief. It really depends on strength of draft class and how many players declare. I'd argue within the past 5 years, draft classes have gotten so much deeper because the talent pool is much larger than usual.

I wouldn't make that kind of expectation of the current Laker scouting staff. LNJ is a legit starter for the right team. JC is an elite 6th man/borderline starter.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:43 pm    Post subject:

late 1st/2nd round picks w/ starter potential = ponds, trier, carr, melton, okobo

i don't think this is a particularly deep draft to be honest so it does feel a bit slim pickings after the lottery. it's pretty top heavy and it bottoms out pretty quickly. i think there's maybe 15-20 guys who will stick.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:43 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
I'm not as high on Carter. He plays physical defense, built like a brick and keeps up laterally. But 6'3" wingspan is barely a quarter of an inch wingspan over Isaiah Thomas. It's not even average.

I think NCAA guards get away with a lot more physical play at the NCAA level and it doesn't necessarily translate to the NBA level. Even the physical defense in the playoffs is left to the wing players, but never guards, especially point guards.


where are you getting the 6'3" number? As I said earlier, I have seen others question it when it was printed in a 247 article earlier this year. Call it average or pedestrian or whatever you choose, but 6'3" wingspan is very normal for a 6'2" man. I have recently heard Zwicker and Gribanov both recently speak to why they think his physical style, defense and shooting will translate well to the NBA.

Here is a short clip from Gribanov responding on Carter...he is tough, but fair.

https://player.fm/series/the-stepien-nba-draft-podcast/sleepers-with-mike-and-jackson?t=599


I read it off of some message board, I think it was on the Stepein.

6'3" wingspan is average for a 5'10" NBA player, not an average human. As for Cole and Mike, I agree with A LOT of what they have to say, but this isn't the case. I think in a season when Carter can rely on his lateral quickness/strength with NCAA refs and a 35 game season? Yeah, it works. He plays great point of attack defense out there. I also thought he bullied Trae Young, which I wasn't surprised about, because I would expect that of juniors/seniors being physically dominant over talented freshman. Happens every year. I still think Trae is a Top 4 pick despite that.

It's next level where I think Carter has issues. Open catch and shoot isn't as open at the NBA level. We've already seen the struggles that Ingram, Kuzma, Hart, and right now Caruso have had adapting their shots to NBA speeds, defenses, and distances. Even Curry has to quick-release his shots over defenders and change the angle of the release point just to make sure it's over the defender, just to compensate for lack of wingspan. At least he's an elite shooter. Do you trust those percentages to translate to the NBA level? At this point in the season, I don't. I need to see some Pre-Draft workout stuff and read some evals from workouts before solidifying my argument.

The thing is, Kuzma, Hart, and Ingram have wingspan/standing reach to compensate. Carter, doesn't. Caruso's wingspan is 6'5.5". I still see the hesitance and whiff of panic on his 3pt shot when defenses are closing out on him.

Jevon Carter is like Patrick Beverley. That's his utmost upside, really. But he needs a Kobe/James Harden next to him to make it work.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:45 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
late 1st/2nd round picks w/ starter potential = ponds, trier, carr, melton, okobo

i don't think this is a particularly deep draft to be honest so it does feel a bit slim pickings after the lottery. it's pretty top heavy and it bottoms out pretty quickly. i think there's maybe 15-20 guys who will stick.


I can buy Ponds, Melton, Okobo. Haven't seen Trier at all this season. I don't trust Carr. Ponds has change of pace/shake. Melton is just NBA player built with above average athl. Okobo, is more along the lines of elite size at PG with the 6'3"/6'8" wingspan and slashing, but I haven't watched too much.
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