Official 2018 NBA Draft Thread (Lakers own the 25th and 47th picks) - see 1st page for draft links
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:04 pm    Post subject:

The God Particle wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Vecenie has really been high on Daniel Gafford lately. I personally have not watched a lot of him this season...but listening to Vecenie and watching some video on YouTube....he is very much the type of Center I would like on the Lakers. Has anyone watched much of Gafford this season?


Looks very impressive. I'm especially impressed with how fluidly he gets up and down the floor at his size.

Does he show any small man skills - handle a little, shoot it, playmake some?


they said he can put in on the floor for a few dribbles and get to the basket....and was showing some touch on his shot....I need to watch more of him.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:06 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
The God Particle wrote:
With his shooting, ball-handling, speed (in a boys body still) , ability to get past any defender (including JC), I can only imagine how much better he's going to be with NBA level talent, space, and pace.


the great thing about the modern age is most things are on video....so you tossed that false claim in there about Young beating JC, and now everyone can see for themselves that it is false....in only a few minutes. Most of his made shots and almost everytime he gets to the basket, he is being defended by Beatle Bolden or Dax Miles.

FrankieVision video of every shot, rebound, assist that Trae Young took on January 6, 2018 against WVU. I saw exactly one time that he beat Carter to get to the basket....and that was Carters 4th foul.

https://youtu.be/Uxb8S2-a9s0

also, for the claim that Young got Carter in foul trouble....watch the replays and listen to the ESPN crew on the 2nd and 3rd foul....when it is clearly all ball and a bad call.


Still won't stop Trae from being Top 5.

Projecting Carter as some sort of stopper once he's at the NBA level? He doesn't even have Marcus Smart tools.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:08 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Why is Lonzo's recent shooting even into play in this argument? It's unfair considering he's had NBA training/season to develop it. Why can't it be comparison by age from their freshman seasons?


because my initial post was comparing Young to last years loaded PG class.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
adkindo wrote:
The God Particle wrote:
With his shooting, ball-handling, speed (in a boys body still) , ability to get past any defender (including JC), I can only imagine how much better he's going to be with NBA level talent, space, and pace.


the great thing about the modern age is most things are on video....so you tossed that false claim in there about Young beating JC, and now everyone can see for themselves that it is false....in only a few minutes. Most of his made shots and almost everytime he gets to the basket, he is being defended by Beatle Bolden or Dax Miles.

FrankieVision video of every shot, rebound, assist that Trae Young took on January 6, 2018 against WVU. I saw exactly one time that he beat Carter to get to the basket....and that was Carters 4th foul.

https://youtu.be/Uxb8S2-a9s0

also, for the claim that Young got Carter in foul trouble....watch the replays and listen to the ESPN crew on the 2nd and 3rd foul....when it is clearly all ball and a bad call.


Still won't stop Trae from being Top 5.

Projecting Carter as some sort of stopper once he's at the NBA level? He doesn't even have Marcus Smart tools.


I am not projecting in this post....I am just illustrating the truth in what took place that night.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:17 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Mike, is it possible that it's legitimate to worry about Trae at the next level because his sample size of playing great at the college level is pretty darned small? In other words, does his talent pop so much that you aren't worried about that?

I just haven't seen enough of his games (or tape of him, even) to know the answers to those questions. And since I can't see a scenario where we end up taking him, I may not do as much homework on him as I would do on the prospects that could be in our range.

(Oh, and thanks for the reply, adkindo, even if I didn't ask you directly lol.)


I'd argue that Trae has a larger sample of all the 1-and-done's because not only does he have a lot of playing time, but his USG is insanely high.

The talent pops out that much. Fatigue makes cowards of us all.

When it's Pre-Draft time, he won't show great vert. Maybe he doesn't show great high end speed or great lateral. Hell, he's a lightweight. This is where that Curry comparison clicks in, and seems to fit well.

Not only is Trae 2 years ahead of Curry's PG development (Curry only played PG during his last year at Davidson, SG as a frosh and soph), but they both don't have great measurements, both aren't great athletes, both have shown dynamic ball-handling, Trae is 2-tiers better passer than Curry by age, and Curry is tremendously more efficient from the field.

So basically, if you have a full-upside Trae Young, say, 24-7-3 on 46%, 40%, how high would you rank him in the draft?

For me? Top 5.


Curry also stayed an additional few years at Davidson to continue to develop. Trae may not do that, and the outcome may be very vastly different because of it.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
adkindo wrote:
The God Particle wrote:
With his shooting, ball-handling, speed (in a boys body still) , ability to get past any defender (including JC), I can only imagine how much better he's going to be with NBA level talent, space, and pace.


the great thing about the modern age is most things are on video....so you tossed that false claim in there about Young beating JC, and now everyone can see for themselves that it is false....in only a few minutes. Most of his made shots and almost everytime he gets to the basket, he is being defended by Beatle Bolden or Dax Miles.

FrankieVision video of every shot, rebound, assist that Trae Young took on January 6, 2018 against WVU. I saw exactly one time that he beat Carter to get to the basket....and that was Carters 4th foul.

https://youtu.be/Uxb8S2-a9s0

also, for the claim that Young got Carter in foul trouble....watch the replays and listen to the ESPN crew on the 2nd and 3rd foul....when it is clearly all ball and a bad call.


Still won't stop Trae from being Top 5.

Projecting Carter as some sort of stopper once he's at the NBA level? He doesn't even have Marcus Smart tools.

I get Jarrett jack vibe from carter I donít know why
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:28 pm    Post subject:

Oh I'm rewatching this.

https://youtu.be/Uxb8S2-a9s0

0:14 Bank 3 was luck and he knew it
0:29 Trae expected to draw contact, lost balance, Carter strips ball (one of his best skills)
0:53 Takes highly contested 3. Carter is there. Can we all agree this is horrible shot selection?
1:06 Draws switch. Shoots 32' out. Not Carter. Still poor shot selection.
1:21 Defender switch again. Still horrible shot.
1:32 Puts Carter in jail in transition, pass blown, gets a free bucket
1:42 Halfcourt trap with WVs best two defenders in Carter/Konate, finds open man for corner 3.
2:08 Clean pick by Carter. That's 2 TOs
2:20 Interpretation. Bad shot? Or Carter?
2:28 Gets step on Carter. Off balance floater miss.
3:13 Interpretation. Bad shot? Or Carter?
3:50 Gets step on Carter. Carter strips ball.
5:17 Interpretation. Bad shot? Or Carter? Trae typically takes this, but this is Carter defense.
5:42 Goes downhill on Carter and gets step.
7:07 Typical bad shot, but this one drops.
7:27 Goes downhill on Carter and gets step.

The rest of that video is non-NBA types burned by Trae.

My interpretation is, that's a lot of awful shot selection. Yeah, Carter forced a 3 turnovers and contested a few shots. Great. But there's a reason why Trae is lottery and Carter is a 2nd round type.

Trae was shooting the same shots, whether it was Carter or not. That's MY point. Bad shots are just misses. He took a lot of bad shots. He missed a lot.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject:

PayasoLoco wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
adkindo wrote:
The God Particle wrote:
With his shooting, ball-handling, speed (in a boys body still) , ability to get past any defender (including JC), I can only imagine how much better he's going to be with NBA level talent, space, and pace.


the great thing about the modern age is most things are on video....so you tossed that false claim in there about Young beating JC, and now everyone can see for themselves that it is false....in only a few minutes. Most of his made shots and almost everytime he gets to the basket, he is being defended by Beatle Bolden or Dax Miles.

FrankieVision video of every shot, rebound, assist that Trae Young took on January 6, 2018 against WVU. I saw exactly one time that he beat Carter to get to the basket....and that was Carters 4th foul.

https://youtu.be/Uxb8S2-a9s0

also, for the claim that Young got Carter in foul trouble....watch the replays and listen to the ESPN crew on the 2nd and 3rd foul....when it is clearly all ball and a bad call.


Still won't stop Trae from being Top 5.

Projecting Carter as some sort of stopper once he's at the NBA level? He doesn't even have Marcus Smart tools.

I get Jarrett jack vibe from carter I donít know why


I like Jarrett Jack actually, but the only similarity is they're both bald, strong PGs. Jack was more of a PnR guy and tried to attack the paint more. Weakness was the 3pt. shot. Carter is the opposite. Roughly 50% at the rim, better 3pt shooter. More catch and shoot than creator.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:32 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Mike, is it possible that it's legitimate to worry about Trae at the next level because his sample size of playing great at the college level is pretty darned small? In other words, does his talent pop so much that you aren't worried about that?

I just haven't seen enough of his games (or tape of him, even) to know the answers to those questions. And since I can't see a scenario where we end up taking him, I may not do as much homework on him as I would do on the prospects that could be in our range.

(Oh, and thanks for the reply, adkindo, even if I didn't ask you directly lol.)


I'd argue that Trae has a larger sample of all the 1-and-done's because not only does he have a lot of playing time, but his USG is insanely high.

The talent pops out that much. Fatigue makes cowards of us all.

When it's Pre-Draft time, he won't show great vert. Maybe he doesn't show great high end speed or great lateral. Hell, he's a lightweight. This is where that Curry comparison clicks in, and seems to fit well.

Not only is Trae 2 years ahead of Curry's PG development (Curry only played PG during his last year at Davidson, SG as a frosh and soph), but they both don't have great measurements, both aren't great athletes, both have shown dynamic ball-handling, Trae is 2-tiers better passer than Curry by age, and Curry is tremendously more efficient from the field.

So basically, if you have a full-upside Trae Young, say, 24-7-3 on 46%, 40%, how high would you rank him in the draft?

For me? Top 5.


Curry also stayed an additional few years at Davidson to continue to develop. Trae may not do that, and the outcome may be very vastly different because of it.


Curry stayed because he wasn't even on the NBA map.

He didn't show up on that map until his soph year, where he was still a 6'2" dude with short arms playing SG.

Once he actually focused on PG skills (assists practically doubled) and had the same relative efficiency from the field/shot selection, people really took notice. Now he was able to bring 2 skills at the NBA level, not just one.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:33 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

I am not projecting in this post....I am just illustrating the truth in what took place that night.


Your truth is subject to interpretation on that video. It's different from what I think.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:59 pm    Post subject:

Why all this talk about a guy the Lakers have a 0% chance of drafting? Move on.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:44 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:

I am not projecting in this post....I am just illustrating the truth in what took place that night.


Your truth is subject to interpretation on that video. It's different from what I think.


ok, I give up...your claim was "Trae got by Jevon Carter repeatedly"....
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:25 am    Post subject:

LakersMD wrote:
Why all this talk about a guy the Lakers have a 0% chance of drafting? Move on.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:25 am    Post subject:

LakersMD wrote:
Why all this talk about a guy the Lakers have a 0% chance of drafting? Move on.

Because the draft thread is for all things draft. Even draught beer.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject:

hydrohead wrote:
LakersMD wrote:
Why all this talk about a guy the Lakers have a 0% chance of drafting? Move on.


because the top 5-10 guys are the most likely game changers....future stars....they may not be Lakers soon, but we will be watching many for them for the next decade or longer
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject:

and honestly, if you're not sure how good the top 10 guys are you can't really get a sense for who the next tier should be. every draft pick is in context with the rest of the draft class. a guy who you might be happy to get in the late 1st in one draft may be a lottery pick in another or a mid 2nd rounder in another, and without knowing the strength throughout the draft what are you even really talking about?

besides. it's a draft thread. it's fun to talk about prospects throughout the draft. maybe we think someone's good enough to be worth trading for.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject:

hydrohead wrote:
LakersMD wrote:
Why all this talk about a guy the Lakers have a 0% chance of drafting? Move on.


Draft thread.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:17 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:

I am not projecting in this post....I am just illustrating the truth in what took place that night.


Your truth is subject to interpretation on that video. It's different from what I think.


ok, I give up...your claim was "Trae got by Jevon Carter repeatedly"....


And, he did. You define it differently apparently from myself and CZ.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject:

Jacob Evans getting a lot more attention than I thought he would.

Legit team defender. VERY limited offense with basic straight line drives on average athleticism. Only catch and shoot. Has an idea for passing but I'm not sure he's a late 1st.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:14 pm    Post subject:

How high would we have to trade up to get Mikal Bridges, and what do we need to give up? I've been watching videos and reading analysis of him, and I think I'm in love.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:26 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Jacob Evans getting a lot more attention than I thought he would.

Legit team defender. VERY limited offense with basic straight line drives on average athleticism. Only catch and shoot. Has an idea for passing but I'm not sure he's a late 1st.


I'm not sure what dataset he was using but Jackson Hoy had Jacob Evans rated very highly as a 3nD secondary ballhandler type.

https://twitter.com/JHoyNBA/status/970693722420760576
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:32 pm    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
How high would we have to trade up to get Mikal Bridges, and what do we need to give up? I've been watching videos and reading analysis of him, and I think I'm in love.



Likely inside the top 10 and maybe to around #7 depending on how teams are slotted in the draft order.


Ball & Ingram are unlikely to be traded and Kuzma + Cleveland pick is not likely to be enough to get inside the top 10.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:50 pm    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
How high would we have to trade up to get Mikal Bridges, and what do we need to give up? I've been watching videos and reading analysis of him, and I think I'm in love.


Last year was the best chance. Now he's easily late lotto.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:51 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Jacob Evans getting a lot more attention than I thought he would.

Legit team defender. VERY limited offense with basic straight line drives on average athleticism. Only catch and shoot. Has an idea for passing but I'm not sure he's a late 1st.


I'm not sure what dataset he was using but Jackson Hoy had Jacob Evans rated very highly as a 3nD secondary ballhandler type.

https://twitter.com/JHoyNBA/status/970693722420760576


Evans does move the ball, especially in swing swing situations, but I haven't seen frequency of drive and kick. He's definitely the 3 and D archetype with + passing.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:22 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
The God Particle wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Vecenie has really been high on Daniel Gafford lately. I personally have not watched a lot of him this season...but listening to Vecenie and watching some video on YouTube....he is very much the type of Center I would like on the Lakers. Has anyone watched much of Gafford this season?


Looks very impressive. I'm especially impressed with how fluidly he gets up and down the floor at his size.

Does he show any small man skills - handle a little, shoot it, playmake some?


Handle? No.
Shoot it? No.
Playmake? .6:1 A/TO ratio, is basically batting the average for a Clint Capela archetype.


Guess not.

haha
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