Official 2018 NBA Draft Thread: Lakers select Moe Wagner (#25), Isaac Bonga (#39), and Svi Mykhailiuk (#47) - see 1st page for draft links
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PlantedTanks
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:57 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
De'Anthony Melton reminds me a bit of Frank Ntilkina.


Does Ntilikina appear destined to play SG?


I have read reports that the Knicks are likely leaning in that direction.


I feel Melton can be a true combo/pg.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:59 pm    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
adkindo wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
De'Anthony Melton reminds me a bit of Frank Ntilkina.


Does Ntilikina appear destined to play SG?


I have read reports that the Knicks are likely leaning in that direction.


I feel Melton can be a true combo/pg.


and maybe Ntilikina can be also...have not watched much of him, but I recall reports that the Knicks would not avoid a PG in draft because many in the organization think he is more of a SG.

Yeah, I like the idea of Melton.....if we believe he can become an adequate shooter.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:17 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
adkindo wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
De'Anthony Melton reminds me a bit of Frank Ntilkina.


Does Ntilikina appear destined to play SG?


I have read reports that the Knicks are likely leaning in that direction.


I feel Melton can be a true combo/pg.


and maybe Ntilikina can be also...have not watched much of him, but I recall reports that the Knicks would not avoid a PG in draft because many in the organization think he is more of a SG.

Yeah, I like the idea of Melton.....if we believe he can become an adequate shooter.

Ntilikina is really limited as a PG by lack of burst and a slow release on his jumper, so it can be hard for him to score consistently out of the PnR. I do like his passing vision. He's really young, and it's more than possible for him to speed up his release and really diversify his handle so that he can use skill and his big frame to bully his way into his comfort zones.

Melton doesn't have the same size, but I like his burst a bit more even though he also has a lot of work to do on his handle. I think Ntilikina is a closer comparison than Smart.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:34 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Seems like all the prospects I'm really high on are going just 1 or 2 picks before 25.

Hopefully there are a few early reaches so Melton or Huerter or DiVincenzo drop to 25.


I would be okay with Khyri Thomas, Shake Milton, Jevon Carter and Bruce Brown.


If that's at #25, I'll probably throw furniture.

If it's Carter or Bruce, I'll slam a door or two.


I am starting to think we should trade this pick for a future 1st. Create almost $1m in salary cap space.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:49 pm    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Seems like all the prospects I'm really high on are going just 1 or 2 picks before 25.

Hopefully there are a few early reaches so Melton or Huerter or DiVincenzo drop to 25.


I would be okay with Khyri Thomas, Shake Milton, Jevon Carter and Bruce Brown.


If that's at #25, I'll probably throw furniture.

If it's Carter or Bruce, I'll slam a door or two.


I am starting to think we should trade this pick for a future 1st. Create almost $1m in salary cap space.


I am ok trading down for multiple picks in 2nd Round (which do not have cap hold until signed)....or a high 2nd Round and future pick....but this draft has decent depth....would not want to pass on taking a guy in top 35-40.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:01 pm    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
There's an unusually high amount of prospects with high center of gravity, and it really affects their game. Milton, MPJ, Ayton, etc.

At least with Bonga, I think there's A LOT more upside than Khyri. I really don't believe in his skill level.


I feel Thomas's upside is where Melton comes into the L at. I'm


Melton's upside as a shooter is where Thomas enters the L at.

Both are considered good defenders though I give Melton the edge due to his better twitch.

Melton the better play maker although that was not required of Thomas in college.


Thomas is an overrated shooter. It amazes me how people really think this guy is some kind of great shooter.

Thomas has defensive potential, but he doesn't give it every single play like Melton. De'Anthony has motor on D. The comparison between the two in terms of vision is like night and day. What I've watched of Thomas is a guy with zero vision and zero decision making. He's a horrible playmaker where Melton shows terrific vision along with strong decision making offensively. Developing playmaking and a potential tially restricted jumper.

Thomas may have a better jumper than Melton (even though I don't think it's going to be that much better in the L) , Melton's overall offensive game is more efficient and more conducive to winning basketball.


No one mentioned Thomas being a great shooter but .418, .393, .411 college 3 for 3 years is pretty good. Who would complain if he maintains that in the L?

Melton .284 in his only year.

Unless Melton's shot develops his overall offensive game will suffer as will his efficiency.

Thomas is not a pg so unfair to compare passing/vision but to say he has no vision is disingenuous. Thomas was a scorer and a very efficient one although he still had over 3 assists per game.


Melton is much more likely to develop a decent shot than Thomas is to develop even average vision and PnR skills for a secondary ball handler let alone a lead guard.

Melton is an elite team defender with significantly higher steals and block rates.

On top of all that, he's also 2 years younger.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:24 pm    Post subject:

tachyonweb wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
There's an unusually high amount of prospects with high center of gravity, and it really affects their game. Milton, MPJ, Ayton, etc.

At least with Bonga, I think there's A LOT more upside than Khyri. I really don't believe in his skill level.


I feel Thomas's upside is where Melton comes into the L at. I'm


Melton's upside as a shooter is where Thomas enters the L at.

Both are considered good defenders though I give Melton the edge due to his better twitch.

Melton the better play maker although that was not required of Thomas in college.


Thomas is an overrated shooter. It amazes me how people really think this guy is some kind of great shooter.

Thomas has defensive potential, but he doesn't give it every single play like Melton. De'Anthony has motor on D. The comparison between the two in terms of vision is like night and day. What I've watched of Thomas is a guy with zero vision and zero decision making. He's a horrible playmaker where Melton shows terrific vision along with strong decision making offensively. Developing playmaking and a potential tially restricted jumper.

Thomas may have a better jumper than Melton (even though I don't think it's going to be that much better in the L) , Melton's overall offensive game is more efficient and more conducive to winning basketball.


No one mentioned Thomas being a great shooter but .418, .393, .411 college 3 for 3 years is pretty good. Who would complain if he maintains that in the L?

Melton .284 in his only year.

Unless Melton's shot develops his overall offensive game will suffer as will his efficiency.

Thomas is not a pg so unfair to compare passing/vision but to say he has no vision is disingenuous. Thomas was a scorer and a very efficient one although he still had over 3 assists per game.


Melton is much more likely to develop a decent shot than Thomas is to develop even average vision and PnR skills for a secondary ball handler let alone a lead guard.

Melton is an elite team defender with significantly higher steals and block rates.

On top of all that, he's also 2 years younger.


Thomas is a SG, not a combo guard like Melton. Think of Josh Hart.

If Melton's shot does not develop is he Marcus Smart lite?

Thomas was co-big east defensive player of the year. Not bad credentials.

Thomas is more ready to play now as a rotational SG. Is Melton or would you rather have a vet backup to Lonzo? Can't see Melton playing next to Lonzo if both are suspect shooters.

I would be happy with either player. Just depends what team needs are.


Last edited by PlantedTanks on Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:32 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Seems like all the prospects I'm really high on are going just 1 or 2 picks before 25.

Hopefully there are a few early reaches so Melton or Huerter or DiVincenzo drop to 25.


I would be okay with Khyri Thomas, Shake Milton, Jevon Carter and Bruce Brown.


If that's at #25, I'll probably throw furniture.

If it's Carter or Bruce, I'll slam a door or two.


I am starting to think we should trade this pick for a future 1st. Create almost $1m in salary cap space.


I am ok trading down for multiple picks in 2nd Round (which do not have cap hold until signed)....or a high 2nd Round and future pick....but this draft has decent depth....would not want to pass on taking a guy in top 35-40.


Would prefer to keep 25. I feel this years later 1st early 2nd prospects are better shooters than last year which is a Laker need.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:26 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
^
Bud took the Milwaukee job, but I do agree with you that the owner's connections here were going to matter far more in Phoenix than whatever Koskokov might want. The very top draft picks are almost always ownership or upper management decisions, and a rookie head coach with his background is going to have very, very little say. He's a virtual no-name, if we're being honest. He's not Larry Bird with his first gig, or even Steve Kerr.

I'm sure Koskokov would be happy if they took Doncic, but I'm also sure that he will toe the company line with Ayton. He simply doesn't have the kind of equity to vehemently disagree with any decision of Ayton clearly being their preference. He could absolutely offer an opinion that he prefers Doncic of the two, but I'm quite sure that, even if he said that, he'd be sure to also praise Ayton. There's no way he's rocking that boat. None.



Agreed.

And thanks for the Mil reminder. Not sure why I had Toronto in my head.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:00 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
vicman wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
^And it's not like I'm advocating not drafting guys who can shoot or promoting older guys with sketchy shot profiles and questionable overall impact like Frazier, Hutchinson, or DiVincenzo. I'm specifically advocating for De'Anthony Melton, especially with his re-tooled jumper. After he's off the board, then the Lakers should go after Jerome Robinson or whomever.
I think melton is easily the best fit for us at 25 I don't even think it is close really fits great with hart in the 2nd unit. With a backcourt rotation of george, ball , hart and Melton the defense should be great all the time. Man we wouldn't have to see ennis or Caruso anymore I don't understand people that don't want that. I am ok with dv though but only if Melton is gone and honestly if he is gone I think you swing for the fences and go with Robinson next

I'm in agreement. There's more uncertainty because he lost his sophomore season, but that uncertainty may give the Lakers the opportunity to draft a guy who could've blown up this past season if one of his family members wasn't out soliciting cash advances from shoe companies.



I'm hoping the Lakers have seen a lot of him during his workouts/training over the past year and have better info on him than other teams due to seeing more of him. He could end up being a steal like Kuzma if he's greatly improved is jumper but other teams sleep on it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:14 am    Post subject:

What’s the caphold for this #25 pick?

The Lakers may have to sell it for more space. Maybe a future protected first (like top 20-25 protected) from a team really in love with a guy at #25 this year.

Im not sure that’s ever been done, but a very real possibility nonetheless.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:27 am    Post subject:

Chicago currently as of right now (before July 1st) has a little over ten million in capspace.

What about Deng, #25, and cash for Asik?

Chicago takes on an extra 6.5 mill into their space and gain a first round pick for it.

Lakers stretch Asik and get more space.

Before anyone complains about selling draft picks for nothing, just remember that the price for this particular pick was Nance and Clarkson, meaning, they shouldn’t even have this pick.

As far as I’m concerned, with that pick, they’re clearly playing with house money.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:48 am    Post subject:

scoobs wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
scoobs wrote:
Does anyone know if Doncic is able to defend point guards?


No, but outside of maybe 5 guys who can do it for 34 minutes, who can?
True. If the Lakers FO have soured on Lonzo and want to trade him, do you think Doncic would be a good replacement?


Yes.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:50 am    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Here's the issue. You buy Khyri's shot as translatable. I do not.

Melton already changed his shot with Drew Hanlen, but you're drafting him for the All-Defensive type defense.


Not sure why his shot is not translatable. His form from my perspective is very good. Trying to project a prospects 3 pt shot in the L is always questionable (see A Brown, Lonzo) but at least he has 3 years of stats to form an educated guess.

I am not buying into All-Defensive just yet and Thomas is not chop liver in that respect. If Melton can improve his shot why can't Thomas improve his handle, passing?


It's the unusually high amount of those shots that happen just after in transition and how easily it gets deterred when contested. Even the analytics don't agree with it, but like Okogie, I think it's easier contested next level.

I'll definitely buy Melton for All Defensive. Put Carter there too. I basically haven't felt that way about a prospect since Marcus Smart.

Also, if there was an order to what the easiest skills would be to learn, it's shooting ------------handle ----passing.

You can turn 55%FT shooters into 35% 3pt shooters (Blake Griffin, Bruce Bowen), but you can't turn Maggette into McGrady, or Rick Fox into Tayshaun Prince even.

Derozan is the perfect example of learning all three.


For me it is handle --- shooting --- passing.

Coming out of college I see Khyri's shot a better version of Hart's. If Hart can translate then why not Thomas?

As for Derozan he is still not a good shooter but his handle has significantly improved where driving to the basket is his best offensive asset.


I know a lot of people judge shooting by the 3-point line, but if you're looking at Derozan in terms of Iso shooting, mid-range, long 2, and 3-point and include volume, it's a drastic difference.

Outside of Curry, what players do you have in mind that really improved their handle?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:51 am    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Seems like all the prospects I'm really high on are going just 1 or 2 picks before 25.

Hopefully there are a few early reaches so Melton or Huerter or DiVincenzo drop to 25.


I would be okay with Khyri Thomas, Shake Milton, Jevon Carter and Bruce Brown.


If that's at #25, I'll probably throw furniture.

If it's Carter or Bruce, I'll slam a door or two.


I am starting to think we should trade this pick for a future 1st. Create almost $1m in salary cap space.


There's far more value in drafting well at #25 than drafting, what I feel are early to mid 2nd round types.

This is one of the deeper drafts in a long time. Take advantage.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:56 am    Post subject:

Quote:

If Melton's shot does not develop is he Marcus Smart lite?

Thomas was co-big east defensive player of the year. Not bad credentials.


I don't tend to put a lot of value in NCAA DPOY credentials. Strength (a plus for Khyri) tends to get valued much more strongly at that level.

Even if Melton's shot doesn't come around, having Ntilikina size/athl with Smart's defensive demeanor is such a +++.

But, I'm not going to be conservative about how I feel about Melton's defense, or Carter's defense. If you're scaring agents out of putting their client in workouts (Carter) or calling out your defensive assignment with 3x the deflection rate in a PreDraft combine setting (Melton), there's a strong chance for All Defensive Teams stuff here.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:29 am    Post subject:

Boom or bust: ESPN's Draft Analytics model predicts top players in 2018 NBA draft

Quote:
NBA Draft Projections -- Top 30

1 Marvin Bagley III
2 Luka Doncic
3 DeAndre Ayton
4 Jaren Jackson Jr
5 Mikal Bridges
6 Mohamed Bamba
7 Wendell Carter Jr
8 Collin Sexton
9 Zhaire Smith
10 Trae Young
11 Michael Porter Jr
12 Kevin Knox
13 De'Anthony Melton
14 Troy Brown
15 Keita Bates-Diop
16 Mitchell Robinson
17 Jevon Carter
18 Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
19 Miles Bridges
20 Robert Williams
21 Jacob Evans
22 Jarred Vanderbilt
23 Moritz Wagner
24 Ray Spalding
25 Goga Bitadze
26 Donte DiVincenzo
27 Dzanan Musa
28 Omari Spellman
29 Jalen Brunson
30 Khyri Thomas


LINK
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:00 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
^Hart barely flashed that drift jumper. Villanova is strict about their fundamentals, so they all know NOT to take those shots. You rarely see Brunson, Bridges, even DV shoot on the move like that, and their shooting percentages as a team reflect it. It's like adding 1%FG per player on the floor per game.

Definitely saw Huerter do it A LOT more than Hart.

Thanks. That's what I recall of Huerter, as well, but it also seems like it'd be something manageable for most true shooters to pick up quickly.


I think the difference between Hart and Huerter in terms of playtype is how much Hart came off of screens and Iso'd, while Huerter got a lot of PnR ball-handling/step back Iso shots. I'm actually rewatching Huerter right now.

Both of them plant their feet well and square up into the shot, but Hart strikes me as more of a spot up shooter guy/slash attacker, while Huerter, I think, is able to do more dynamic stuff from the perimeter.

More dynamic how?


More range, more likely to hit shots when slightly off balance, better floater game.

Gotcha. I don't have at rim data for Hart and Huerter (freq and efficiency), but that 60% 2P shooting for Huerter with his floaters, hook shots, layups with either hand, etc. offer another path along with his passing vision toward becoming much more than just a shooting specialist.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject:

Huerter is 71% at the rim. I just flat out memorized that. haha.

Hart was 71% at the rim, just higher FTr I think.

Hoop-math.com has a bunch of information for free too btw.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:37 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Huerter is 71% at the rim. I just flat out memorized that. haha.

Hart was 71% at the rim, just higher FTr I think.

Hoop-math.com has a bunch of information for free too btw.

Oh! That is great to now. Time to be less productive at work today lol.

I love those numbers for Josh (who shot an average of around 70% at the rim his entire college career) and Huerter.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Huerter is 71% at the rim. I just flat out memorized that. haha.

Hart was 71% at the rim, just higher FTr I think.

Hoop-math.com has a bunch of information for free too btw.

Oh! That is great to now. Time to be less productive at work today lol.

I love those numbers for Josh (who shot an average of around 70% at the rim his entire college career) and Huerter.


I think there is a lot of needed context with those numbers....I recall Lonzo having very high %'s at the rim.....yet finishing is one of his greatest weaknesses. A lot of people that did not watch UCLA games did not recognize those numbers were compiled mostly of uncontested looks, back cuts for uncontested dunks, etc.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject:

Why has Shamet been dropping in mock drafts (as far as I can tell)?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:54 am    Post subject:

Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
Why has Shamet been dropping in mock drafts (as far as I can tell)?


Trouble getting clean shots off in game 2 PreDraft combine. Long arms, but supernarrow frame, explains wing-like standing reach of guys with 6'9" wingspans.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:09 am    Post subject:

@WojESPN

Maryland forward Kevin Huerter underwent surgery to repair torn ligaments in his right hand. He will be sidelined for two months.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:10 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Huerter is 71% at the rim. I just flat out memorized that. haha.

Hart was 71% at the rim, just higher FTr I think.

Hoop-math.com has a bunch of information for free too btw.

Oh! That is great to now. Time to be less productive at work today lol.

I love those numbers for Josh (who shot an average of around 70% at the rim his entire college career) and Huerter.


I think there is a lot of needed context with those numbers....I recall Lonzo having very high %'s at the rim.....yet finishing is one of his greatest weaknesses. A lot of people that did not watch UCLA games did not recognize those numbers were compiled mostly of uncontested looks, back cuts for uncontested dunks, etc.

1) Everyone on LG with any knowledge of Lonzo's game understood the issues with his finishing off the bounce - and enduring props to Cole Zwicker for one of the best draft breakdowns last year - and I and others felt his unique strengths outweighed that main weakness.

2) Lonzo was the #2 pick. Josh Hart was #30. Huerter, if we're lucky, will be the #25 pick. I expect Hart and Huerter to continue to have most of their shots at the rim assisted in the pros. At the end of the 1st round I'm not really expecting guys to change roles, and I'm not knocking Aaron Holiday for shooting a lower percentage at the rim when he's taking so few unassisted shots. I get that. But it concerns me that Melton was just ok at the rim as a freshman without a lot of self-creation or that Okogie struggled finishing at the rim while still being assisted on 44% of his shots.
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