After watching The philly "process" players some may believe the Grass is Greener...
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MJST
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:47 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Not meaning to overreact or have a hot take after seeing one game, but if you are Lebron and you could stay in the easy east and play with a healthy Joel and Simmons?

I am just saying. Lebron seems to like LA for his other business so there is that. Also can Joel stay healthy?


76ers will have the 2nd most cap space behind the Lakers in the off-season. The fact Simmons amd Embiid are already playing at all-star and superstar levels makes them a much easier sell to LeBron. I mean the 3rd option they're essentially waiting on is Fultz... and that's because of his shoulder.

This is a lineup LeBron could go to if he left the 76ers

Ben Simmons
Markelle Fultz
Robert Covington
LeBron James
Joel Embiid

there's three all-stars in the starting lineup and a top 3 pick with all-star potential. They'd also have Saric coming off the bench, Jerryd Bayless, Amir Johnson, and even more cap space to get more players if they so needed to.


Keep in mind the 76ers are 13th in the league in defense this year. They went from 26 two seasons ago, to 17th last year, to 13th this year, so are obviously trending upwards.

But they got two legitimate superstar talents in Embiid and Simmons, they got an all-star talent in Markelle Fultz with star potential and they on top of that have the center who's likely next up to be the best one in the league once Cousins' time as it is done.

So yes, the 76ers given their young talent on rookie deals, + being in the East, + cap space, + two superstar talents already and an additional all-star potential talent.

The 76ers are a better destination for LeBron than the Lakers if contending is what he's after.

Of course they have to stay healthy but that's the case for any young team.


AGAIN... we see a situation where a team develops their young talent for a good 3-4 seasons and then when that talent starts coming into their own they surround them with solid role players and veterans that enable them to continue to grow and showout, and thus they hopefully become a destination for free agents once the kids reach those points of being taken seriously and truly impacting games.

THAT is the way you build in the NBA now. You don't try to rush your kids to superstardom and spin fairy tales about how two max free agents are coming to your 28 win team and kids who still need 2-3 years of development before they can impact the game as much as they'd need to in order to get a max free agent's attention.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
If we had Simmons/Embiid I doubt we would be trading them for Lonzo/Kuz/Ingram.

We are rebuilding differently than they are. it is what it is.


I donít think we are rebuilding differently, both teams are hoping to develop young players to the point that they can attract stars.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:54 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
If we had Simmons/Embiid I doubt we would be trading them for Lonzo/Kuz/Ingram.

We are rebuilding differently than they are. it is what it is.


I donít think we are rebuilding differently, both teams are hoping to develop young players to the point that they can attract stars.


The Process was about finding stars via draft. Get as many picks and rummage through D/G League guys to find a gem.

We have relied on the max FA path for the past 3 offseasons. We are committed mostly to getting stars via FA, and secondarily developing our young guys to hopefully be stars.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:03 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
If we had Simmons/Embiid I doubt we would be trading them for Lonzo/Kuz/Ingram.

We are rebuilding differently than they are. it is what it is.


I donít think we are rebuilding differently, both teams are hoping to develop young players to the point that they can attract stars.


The Process was about finding stars via draft. Get as many picks and rummage through D/G League guys to find a gem.

We have relied on the max FA path for the past 3 offseasons. We are committed mostly to getting stars via FA, and secondarily developing our young guys to hopefully be stars.


And Philly is also wanting to bring in a star via free agency. The main difference is that they have had better success with their young players to this point.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:07 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
If we had Simmons/Embiid I doubt we would be trading them for Lonzo/Kuz/Ingram.

We are rebuilding differently than they are. it is what it is.


I donít think we are rebuilding differently, both teams are hoping to develop young players to the point that they can attract stars.


The Process was about finding stars via draft. Get as many picks and rummage through D/G League guys to find a gem.

We have relied on the max FA path for the past 3 offseasons. We are committed mostly to getting stars via FA, and secondarily developing our young guys to hopefully be stars.


And Philly is also wanting to bring in a star via free agency. The main difference is that they have had better success with their young players to this point.

That's always been secondary to their initial goal.

We have it the other way around.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
If we had Simmons/Embiid I doubt we would be trading them for Lonzo/Kuz/Ingram.

We are rebuilding differently than they are. it is what it is.


I donít think we are rebuilding differently, both teams are hoping to develop young players to the point that they can attract stars.


Except we're not.

We're not developing young players, we're trying to rush them to be superstars in their 1st/2nd years so that we can have a chance in free agency that very off-season.

There's a difference.

Jim and Mitch's plan was to develop this team for 3-4 seasons till they come into their own and THEN make a run in free agency at 2019 at earliest as the kids came into theor own.

Magic's plan is plan os to force players into positions and responsibilities and playstyles unfamiliar to them hoping that they can become superstars or stars right away so that we can make a run in free agency, while at the same time lowering the value of the young players that were actually poised for breakout seasons, while forcing players that are 2-3 seasons away to have to be ready now.

The worst thing we could have done for this organization was bring in somebody that brought back the "Cap space + Lakers = we get all the free agents!" mentality back to the FO after the previous regime realized it wasn't going to work after 4 straight off-seasons of failure.

Free agents were always secondary to the initial goal of the 76ers, they weren't saying "We're getting LeBron!" last season, cause it wasn't about getting him and they were realistic.

NOW they stand an actual chance of obtaining him because their youngsters are coming into their own.

Like people said in the draft, we shouldn't be making the Lopez for Russell move UNLESS WE WERE IMMEDIATELY GETTING PAUL GEORGE RIGHT AFTER.

We didn't, and now look at us.

Our priorities should ALWAYS be the development of our young talent, letting the chips fall where they may, and free agents after the young talent has come into their own.

THIS CURRENT front office that she's brought in has it reversed

The regime that got fired was the regime that finally understood that but got it ended halfway through the season by the head of the front office that still refuses to believe it. And this team will continue to go nowhere till she either acknowledges that, or steps down cause she can't, and let's Jesse take over.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject:

Philly has been tanking the last 10 years. At some point they were bound to show promise. What happens if Embiid and Simmons leave after 2 or 3 years??? Having great young talent doesn't mean you're going to keep it. We are still in a much better position than they are with the cap space we got coming up, and they only beat us by 6 points, we were in that game all the way to the end.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
Philly has been tanking the last 10 years. At some point they were bound to show promise. What happens if Embiid and Simmons leave after 2 or 3 years??? Having great young talent doesn't mean you're going to keep it. We are still in a much better position than they are with the cap space we got coming up, and they only beat us by 6 points, we were in that game all the way to the end.


Embiid just signed a long term extension, and Simmons is under contract for a few more years. So no.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:10 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
Philly has been tanking the last 10 years. At some point they were bound to show promise. What happens if Embiid and Simmons leave after 2 or 3 years??? Having great young talent doesn't mean you're going to keep it. We are still in a much better position than they are with the cap space we got coming up, and they only beat us by 6 points, we were in that game all the way to the end.


They were last in the playoffs in 2012, we were in 2013.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
kwase wrote:
Philly has been tanking the last 10 years. At some point they were bound to show promise. What happens if Embiid and Simmons leave after 2 or 3 years??? Having great young talent doesn't mean you're going to keep it. We are still in a much better position than they are with the cap space we got coming up, and they only beat us by 6 points, we were in that game all the way to the end.


Embiid just signed a long term extension, and Simmons is under contract for a few more years. So no.


I'm not sold on Embiid's health. He's injury-prone. I still like our position more than theirs. We just have to enjoy the ride, we're on the right path...finally. At least I can watch the games and enjoy them. The last 2 or 3 years I could have walked down to the park and watched a better team. Yes, we are losing, but we're in every game and we're competing.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:15 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
Philly has been tanking the last 10 years.


Wrong.

They've been "tanking" for one year longer than us.

Their 'tank' started after the Bynum deal, that season didn't work otu and afterwards it was 'tank' as their strategy.


Our "tank' strategy happened after our 27 win season in 2014-2015 after we drafted Randle.

Their 'tank' strategy happened after their the 2013-2014 after they'd drafted Michael Carter-Williams

The records of our tanking years.

Philly 19-63 (Drafted Joel Embiid)
Lakers (Not Tanking but won 27 games) (Drafted Julius Randle)

Philly 18-84 (Drafted Jahlil Okafor)
Lakers 21-61 (Drafted D'Angelo Russell)

Philly 10-72 (Drafted Ben Simmons)
Lakers 17-65 (Drafted Brandon Ingram)

Philly 28-54 (Drafted Markelle Fultz)
Lakers 26-56 (Drafted Lonzo Ball

Philly 8-6
Lakers 6-9

So yeah. We actually had a better cohesiveness in our drafts considering our players could fit together, and for Philly, MCW and Okafor haven't panned out.

Problem is Magic had the back court of Lonzo and Russell fall into his lap and instead of continuing to develop it he went for a "win now" trade with no guarantee of getting Paul George in the draft, and now look where we are compared to Philly.

This was supposed to be Russell/Randle's breakout season while Ingram and Ball came into their own.

But now, Russell is having his breakout season on the Nets and the team is holding Randle back because they want to pay him as little as possible in the off-season cause if he has a breakout season, it may 'interfere in their pipedream' of getting George and LeBron to come to a 30 win team because they'd have to pay him.

that tells you where this FO's focus truly is, it's not on the young players at all, it's on free agency. And THAT is what's gonna continue to plague this team till the main people in the front office that have that mentality are gone.

So till then, [expletive] this current FO and their prehistoric "We're the Lakers and we have Cap so we get everyone!" mentality that we'd literally JUST gotten rid of.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:15 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
kwase wrote:
Philly has been tanking the last 10 years. At some point they were bound to show promise. What happens if Embiid and Simmons leave after 2 or 3 years??? Having great young talent doesn't mean you're going to keep it. We are still in a much better position than they are with the cap space we got coming up, and they only beat us by 6 points, we were in that game all the way to the end.


Embiid just signed a long term extension, and Simmons is under contract for a few more years. So no.


I'm not sold on Embiid's health. He's injury-prone. I still like our position more than theirs. We just have to enjoy the ride, we're on the right path...finally. At least I can watch the games and enjoy them. The last 2 or 3 years I could have walked down to the park and watched a better team. Yes, we are losing, but we're in every game and we're competing.


FWIW our record is worse than it was last year at this point. We were 10-10 and that was some fun basketball. Injuries derailed us.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
kwase wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
kwase wrote:
Philly has been tanking the last 10 years. At some point they were bound to show promise. What happens if Embiid and Simmons leave after 2 or 3 years??? Having great young talent doesn't mean you're going to keep it. We are still in a much better position than they are with the cap space we got coming up, and they only beat us by 6 points, we were in that game all the way to the end.


Embiid just signed a long term extension, and Simmons is under contract for a few more years. So no.


I'm not sold on Embiid's health. He's injury-prone. I still like our position more than theirs. We just have to enjoy the ride, we're on the right path...finally. At least I can watch the games and enjoy them. The last 2 or 3 years I could have walked down to the park and watched a better team. Yes, we are losing, but we're in every game and we're competing.


FWIW our record is worse than it was last year at this point. We were 10-10 and that was some fun basketball. Injuries derailed us.

fwiw last year Lou will and NY were shooting lights out. Im sure if we had there shooting on this team wed be around 10-10
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject:

PayasoLoco wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
kwase wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
kwase wrote:
Philly has been tanking the last 10 years. At some point they were bound to show promise. What happens if Embiid and Simmons leave after 2 or 3 years??? Having great young talent doesn't mean you're going to keep it. We are still in a much better position than they are with the cap space we got coming up, and they only beat us by 6 points, we were in that game all the way to the end.


Embiid just signed a long term extension, and Simmons is under contract for a few more years. So no.


I'm not sold on Embiid's health. He's injury-prone. I still like our position more than theirs. We just have to enjoy the ride, we're on the right path...finally. At least I can watch the games and enjoy them. The last 2 or 3 years I could have walked down to the park and watched a better team. Yes, we are losing, but we're in every game and we're competing.


FWIW our record is worse than it was last year at this point. We were 10-10 and that was some fun basketball. Injuries derailed us.

fwiw last year Lou will and NY were shooting lights out. Im sure if we had there shooting on this team wed be around 10-10


We had multiple 3 point shooters (one I noticed you conspicuously left out ). Not that it was a .500 team, but they just decimated out of the gate with a white hot bench unit.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
LakesGnrLake wrote:
CRoost wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Not meaning to overreact or have a hot take after seeing one game, but if you are Lebron and you could stay in the easy east and play with a healthy Joel and Simmons?

I am just saying. Lebron seems to like LA for his other business so there is that. Also can Joel stay healthy?


Lebron need a clutch buddy.


Lebron coming to LA next year is 85% starting his post NBA business and 15% NBA talent. He likes Zo because he can just become a slasher and not handle the ball the entire game.


Right, like he was just a slasher and didnít handle the ball all the time when he played with Kyrie.


This is Lebron turning 33 and not wanting the physical wear. and Kyroe is amazing but hes a pound the ball assist guy and not move the ball run the offense guy like Lonzo is. It will probably be about 45%Lebron 55% Zo next year ball handling duties
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject:

LakesGnrLake wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
LakesGnrLake wrote:
CRoost wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Not meaning to overreact or have a hot take after seeing one game, but if you are Lebron and you could stay in the easy east and play with a healthy Joel and Simmons?

I am just saying. Lebron seems to like LA for his other business so there is that. Also can Joel stay healthy?


Lebron need a clutch buddy.


Lebron coming to LA next year is 85% starting his post NBA business and 15% NBA talent. He likes Zo because he can just become a slasher and not handle the ball the entire game.


Right, like he was just a slasher and didnít handle the ball all the time when he played with Kyrie.


This is Lebron turning 33 and not wanting the physical wear. and Kyroe is amazing but hes a pound the ball assist guy and not move the ball run the offense guy like Lonzo is. It will probably be about 45%Lebron 55% Zo next year ball handling duties


LeBron could deal with his Los Angeles businesses without needing to play basketball in Los Angeles. Also the 76ers already have two superstar talents showing already and Fultz that has all-star talent when he comes back from injury.

So can you give me any legitimate reason LeBron would choose the Lakers over the 76ers that doesn't revolve around "We're in Los Angeles" and "LeBron needs to play basketball in Los Angeles to do Los Angeles business"
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject:

The Lakers did not start the rebuild until last season when Kobe was on the books. The KFT was not a rebuild year. So IMO Philly has many additional years of rebuilding under their belts than we do. Same with the Celtics. We halfa$$ed our rebuild by keeping Kobe and having Byron here who played the vets so many minutes.

That said, they missed on a lot more lotto draft picks than we did. Noel and Oak were big time misses- thank God they did not get Porzingis. Also- I know it is really too soon, but to me Fultz might not be all that.

We have only missed on one pick- DLO - and as many have pointed out here we got a really good haul for him so that did not really set us back too much.

Because we have done a great job with our late round picks we are not nearly as far behind Philly as we should be.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:



So can you give me any legitimate reason LeBron would choose the Lakers over the 76ers that doesn't revolve around "We're in Los Angeles" and "LeBron needs to play basketball in Los Angeles to do Los Angeles business"


One good reason is actually two good reasons, Magic Johnson and Rob Pelinka
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
The Lakers did not start the rebuild until last season when Kobe was on the books. The KFT was not a rebuild year. So IMO Philly has many additional years of rebuilding under their belts than we do. Same with the Celtics. We halfa$$ed our rebuild by keeping Kobe and having Byron here who played the vets so many minutes.

That said, they missed on a lot more lotto draft picks than we did. Noel and Oak were big time misses- thank God they did not get Porzingis. Also- I know it is really too soon, but to me Fultz might not be all that.

We have only missed on one pick- DLO - and as many have pointed out here we got a really good haul for him so that did not really set us back too much.

Because we have done a great job with our late round picks we are not nearly as far behind Philly as we should be.


If folks are arguing that DLO led to Kuz + cap space, then how did we "miss out" by picking DLO?

"Missing out" IMO is like Okafor where a team declines to pick up the team option. That is when the team gets nothing in return and owns up to "missing out."
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject:

Lebron, Simmons, Embiid trio would be incredibly hard to stop.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:55 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I have no problem saluting the 76ers with their talented core. This isn't even taking into account Fultz, who could end up being a great 3rd piece of the puzzle.

I don't think they want to go the LBJ route TBH. They have an internal culture, have their own mini-LBJ.

Was talking with a co worker who is a diehard 76ers fan, and we agreed that the 76ers should instead go after someone like Avery Bradley. Imagine this:

Fultz
Bradley
Covington
Simmons
Embiid

That's probably the best EC team for the next 5 years.


As long as it's not Foston.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
The Lakers did not start the rebuild until last season when Kobe was on the books. The KFT was not a rebuild year. So IMO Philly has many additional years of rebuilding under their belts than we do. Same with the Celtics. We halfa$$ed our rebuild by keeping Kobe and having Byron here who played the vets so many minutes.

That said, they missed on a lot more lotto draft picks than we did. Noel and Oak were big time misses- thank God they did not get Porzingis. Also- I know it is really too soon, but to me Fultz might not be all that.

We have only missed on one pick- DLO - and as many have pointed out here we got a really good haul for him so that did not really set us back too much.

Because we have done a great job with our late round picks we are not nearly as far behind Philly as we should be.


If folks are arguing that DLO led to Kuz + cap space, then how did we "miss out" by picking DLO?

"Missing out" IMO is like Okafor where a team declines to pick up the team option. That is when the team gets nothing in return and owns up to "missing out."


I alluded to this in my post when I said we got a great haul for him! We got a good haul for him but IMO we missed on that pick because Porzingis is tearing it up and could have been ours. We would not have traded Porzingis for cap space. I know- it is absolutely pointless to talk about the what if's but that one still hurts me.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Lebron, Simmons, Embiid trio would be incredibly hard to stop.


Funny that the 7'3" 320 lbs. guy is the best 3 point shooter of the bunch.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
If we had Simmons/Embiid I doubt we would be trading them for Lonzo/Kuz/Ingram.

We are rebuilding differently than they are. it is what it is.


I donít think we are rebuilding differently, both teams are hoping to develop young players to the point that they can attract stars.


The Process was about finding stars via draft. Get as many picks and rummage through D/G League guys to find a gem.

We have relied on the max FA path for the past 3 offseasons. We are committed mostly to getting stars via FA, and secondarily developing our young guys to hopefully be stars.


Lakers were also tanking too, trying to keep picks the last few years. They won 91 games in 4 seasons. They just haven't drafted any stars as of yet.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject:

Inverse wrote:
Hard for me to imagine we lose this game if D'Angelo Russell is on our squad still

Lonzo
DLO
Ingram
Kuzma
Randle

would've beaten the sixers today, even if they were having career nights. Yeah I know, DLO isn't on the team, move on blah blah blah. W/e point is, we've drafted good players too

The loss today is on Luke. He embarrassed Randle by letting him get destroyed out there


Its so funny, because THEY REALLY wanted DLO. I wonder how that would have turned out.

As to your main point, with DLO, we probably beat them, and we look like a really good, well rounded young team to challenge them in the future.

Without DLO, we look like a team with some nice young pieces looking to hit it big in FA.
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