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bum2
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 Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | 15ppg from a 20YO playmaking PG that isn't physically ready for the NBA, is too much to ask. |
DLO did it last year...would have done it in his rookie year if not for the farewell tour circus.
Not to play them against each other but to highlight just how high the bar was set and how it would have taken something ridiculous for him to clear it. |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| bum2 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | 15ppg from a 20YO playmaking PG that isn't physically ready for the NBA, is too much to ask. |
DLO did it last year...would have done it in his rookie year if not for the farewell tour circus.
Not to play them against each other but to highlight just how high the bar was set and how it would have taken something ridiculous for him to clear it. |
Lonzo isn't DAR. Big difference.
I'd even argue that DAR was more physically ready to play than Lonzo. Better measurables with wingspan, better Iso abilities.
But if you wanted a better short term PG that can score, don't be a Lonzo fan. DSJ was your PG in the last draft. Lonzo is a long term view.
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adkindo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | bum2 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | 15ppg from a 20YO playmaking PG that isn't physically ready for the NBA, is too much to ask. |
DLO did it last year...would have done it in his rookie year if not for the farewell tour circus.
Not to play them against each other but to highlight just how high the bar was set and how it would have taken something ridiculous for him to clear it. |
Lonzo isn't DAR. Big difference.
I'd even argue that DAR was more physically ready to play than Lonzo. Better measurables with wingspan, better Iso abilities.
But if you wanted a better short term PG that can score, don't be a Lonzo fan. DSJ was your PG in the last draft. Lonzo is a long term view. |
When did you take this position? What does it even mean? |
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| DSJ is what he is. Steve Francis type of player with no defense. If Lonzo pans out, his ceiling is much higher. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | DSJ is what he is. Steve Francis type of player with no defense. If Lonzo pans out, his ceiling is much higher. |
based on? don't get me wrong, it is a great bs line to toss around and hang on to.....but DSJ has as high of a ceiling as anyone in that draft class. |
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2019
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10801
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | DSJ is what he is. Steve Francis type of player with no defense. If Lonzo pans out, his ceiling is much higher. |
based on? don't get me wrong, it is a great bs line to toss around and hang on to.....but DSJ has as high of a ceiling as anyone in that draft class. |
Yeah I'm not sure why people think our guys have ceilings that nobody else does
DSJ looks special out there |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | bum2 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | 15ppg from a 20YO playmaking PG that isn't physically ready for the NBA, is too much to ask. |
DLO did it last year...would have done it in his rookie year if not for the farewell tour circus.
Not to play them against each other but to highlight just how high the bar was set and how it would have taken something ridiculous for him to clear it. |
Lonzo isn't DAR. Big difference.
I'd even argue that DAR was more physically ready to play than Lonzo. Better measurables with wingspan, better Iso abilities.
But if you wanted a better short term PG that can score, don't be a Lonzo fan. DSJ was your PG in the last draft. Lonzo is a long term view. |
When did you take this position? What does it even mean? |
Since, PreDraft? Since when did I ever think he would be an immediate impact scorer?
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | DSJ is what he is. Steve Francis type of player with no defense. If Lonzo pans out, his ceiling is much higher. |
based on? don't get me wrong, it is a great bs line to toss around and hang on to.....but DSJ has as high of a ceiling as anyone in that draft class. |
Yeah I'm not sure why people think our guys have ceilings that nobody else does
DSJ looks special out there |
DSJ is a much better scorer.
Lonzo is a better passer, defender, rebounder...
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https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | bum2 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | 15ppg from a 20YO playmaking PG that isn't physically ready for the NBA, is too much to ask. |
DLO did it last year...would have done it in his rookie year if not for the farewell tour circus.
Not to play them against each other but to highlight just how high the bar was set and how it would have taken something ridiculous for him to clear it. |
Lonzo isn't DAR. Big difference.
I'd even argue that DAR was more physically ready to play than Lonzo. Better measurables with wingspan, better Iso abilities.
But if you wanted a better short term PG that can score, don't be a Lonzo fan. DSJ was your PG in the last draft. Lonzo is a long term view. |
When did you take this position? What does it even mean? |
Since, PreDraft? Since when did I ever think he would be an immediate impact scorer? |
are you saying that Dennis Smith Jr., who is younger than Ball.....is more NBA ready.....but for some reason, Ball will develop beyond him even though he is not nearly the athlete and is not younger than DSJ? |
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | DSJ is what he is. Steve Francis type of player with no defense. If Lonzo pans out, his ceiling is much higher. |
based on? don't get me wrong, it is a great bs line to toss around and hang on to.....but DSJ has as high of a ceiling as anyone in that draft class. |
Very unlikely he will ever be a plus defender. So it's not really a BS line unless you are only looking at offense. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | DSJ is what he is. Steve Francis type of player with no defense. If Lonzo pans out, his ceiling is much higher. |
based on? don't get me wrong, it is a great bs line to toss around and hang on to.....but DSJ has as high of a ceiling as anyone in that draft class. |
Very unlikely he will ever be a plus defender. So it's not really a BS line unless you are only looking at offense. |
a plus defender like Curry, Irving, Harden and Westbrook? Seems like they have made it to pretty high levels in the pecking order of PG's while not being "plus defenders". I also do not think Ball will be a "plus defender" depending on how you define the term. I can see him being adequate like a Curry.....but not an actual good all around defensive player.
Last edited by adkindo on Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | bum2 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | 15ppg from a 20YO playmaking PG that isn't physically ready for the NBA, is too much to ask. |
DLO did it last year...would have done it in his rookie year if not for the farewell tour circus.
Not to play them against each other but to highlight just how high the bar was set and how it would have taken something ridiculous for him to clear it. |
Lonzo isn't DAR. Big difference.
I'd even argue that DAR was more physically ready to play than Lonzo. Better measurables with wingspan, better Iso abilities.
But if you wanted a better short term PG that can score, don't be a Lonzo fan. DSJ was your PG in the last draft. Lonzo is a long term view. |
When did you take this position? What does it even mean? |
Since, PreDraft? Since when did I ever think he would be an immediate impact scorer? |
you spoke about him being an immediate impact player....a player that would immediately improve a team and make the players around him better...how his shooting would significantly spread the floor.
Just didn't know you thought DSJ would have a more immediate impact on offense, while it would take Lonzo a while to impact the offense. |
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16702
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Lonzo may be an aggregate stats top 15 but in no universe is he actually a top 15 PG right now. |
He is better than a lot of PG's defensively.
Better court vision than most
Better passer than most
Better RB than a lot |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Lonzo may be an aggregate stats top 15 but in no universe is he actually a top 15 PG right now. |
He is better than a lot of PG's defensively.
Better court vision than most
Better passer than most
Better RB than a lot |
so rank him...how many PG's in the NBA are currently better basketball players than Ball? |
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | DSJ is what he is. Steve Francis type of player with no defense. If Lonzo pans out, his ceiling is much higher. |
based on? don't get me wrong, it is a great bs line to toss around and hang on to.....but DSJ has as high of a ceiling as anyone in that draft class. |
Very unlikely he will ever be a plus defender. So it's not really a BS line unless you are only looking at offense. |
a plus defender like Curry, Irving, Harden and Westbrook? Seems like they have made it to pretty high levels in the pecking order of PG's while not being "plus defenders". I also do not think Ball will be a "plus defender" depending on how you define the term. I can see him being adequate like a Curry.....but not an actual good all around defensive player. |
Curry is an outlier, due to being the greatest shooter of all time to go along with elite ball-handling.
The last 3 are the prototype ball-dominant guards. Each having elite offensive ability in certain aspects of the game. WB was a good defender early on and can lock people down if he wants.
If we assume DSJ and Ball both reach their ceiling, I'll take Ball because his IQ and defensive versatility are much better. In terms of scoring, Ball may not ever be as good as DSJ. Then again Marbury, Francis, and Iverson were good to great small guard scorers. Difficult to build a team around them. |
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adkindo
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Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | DSJ is what he is. Steve Francis type of player with no defense. If Lonzo pans out, his ceiling is much higher. |
based on? don't get me wrong, it is a great bs line to toss around and hang on to.....but DSJ has as high of a ceiling as anyone in that draft class. |
Very unlikely he will ever be a plus defender. So it's not really a BS line unless you are only looking at offense. |
a plus defender like Curry, Irving, Harden and Westbrook? Seems like they have made it to pretty high levels in the pecking order of PG's while not being "plus defenders". I also do not think Ball will be a "plus defender" depending on how you define the term. I can see him being adequate like a Curry.....but not an actual good all around defensive player. |
Curry is an outlier, due to being the greatest shooter of all time to go along with elite ball-handling.
The last 3 are the prototype ball-dominant guards. Each having elite offensive ability in certain aspects of the game. WB was a good defender early on and can lock people down if he wants.
If we assume DSJ and Ball both reach their ceiling, I'll take Ball because his IQ and defensive versatility are much better. In terms of scoring, Ball may not ever be as good as DSJ. Then again Marbury, Francis, and Iverson were good to great small guard scorers. Difficult to build a team around them. |
We will have to agree to disagree, as I think DSJ probably has a higher ceiling than Ball....and is more likely to be an elite level player (#1 or #2 option) on a contender. |
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parsons777
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 3574
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Bump |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | DSJ is what he is. Steve Francis type of player with no defense. If Lonzo pans out, his ceiling is much higher. |
based on? don't get me wrong, it is a great bs line to toss around and hang on to.....but DSJ has as high of a ceiling as anyone in that draft class. |
Very unlikely he will ever be a plus defender. So it's not really a BS line unless you are only looking at offense. |
a plus defender like Curry, Irving, Harden and Westbrook? Seems like they have made it to pretty high levels in the pecking order of PG's while not being "plus defenders". I also do not think Ball will be a "plus defender" depending on how you define the term. I can see him being adequate like a Curry.....but not an actual good all around defensive player. |
Lonzo is already a plus defender... statistically, analytically, eye test. However you wanna slice it, he’s a plus defender now as a 20 year old rookie. To say you don’t think he’ll be a plus defender can be seen as nothing short of being a hater. Come on Adkindo, you can’t possibly hate that much. Argue against his offensive game, that holds some water cause of his pitiful shooting but never a plus defender is hilariously bad projecting. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | bum2 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | 15ppg from a 20YO playmaking PG that isn't physically ready for the NBA, is too much to ask. |
DLO did it last year...would have done it in his rookie year if not for the farewell tour circus.
Not to play them against each other but to highlight just how high the bar was set and how it would have taken something ridiculous for him to clear it. |
Lonzo isn't DAR. Big difference.
I'd even argue that DAR was more physically ready to play than Lonzo. Better measurables with wingspan, better Iso abilities.
But if you wanted a better short term PG that can score, don't be a Lonzo fan. DSJ was your PG in the last draft. Lonzo is a long term view. |
When did you take this position? What does it even mean? |
Since, PreDraft? Since when did I ever think he would be an immediate impact scorer? |
you spoke about him being an immediate impact player....a player that would immediately improve a team and make the players around him better...how his shooting would significantly spread the floor.
Just didn't know you thought DSJ would have a more immediate impact on offense, while it would take Lonzo a while to impact the offense. |
Can you really say DSJ is having a more immediate impact on wins(not just stats)? He might be on the worst team in the NBA... |
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parsons777
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 3574
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Some major changes since the end of November |
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parsons777
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 3574
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Bump, Kuzma is very good against winning teams and killing the Top 6. |
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