Lakers should encourage Lonzo to change shot now ?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
LakerFan1977
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 535
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject:

I think even if Lonzo shooting mechanics don't change he can still be a good shooter, examples of great guards that had unorthodox shots Reggie Miller, Jason Kidd, Tim Hardaway no one ever changed there mechanics and they were highly effective shooters, I think its 90% mental, and besides he is a rookie, historically shooters shoot better the longer they are in the league, I don't think its 100% for sure going to be tweaked by Magic or a mandatory change, but I do think if he continues to struggle shooting in his 2nd year they might take a look at changing his mechanics
_________________
Hambuger! The cornerstone of any nutritious breakfast
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Wino
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 8912
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:59 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
You don't change a shot mid season


Most of the time I would say that, but dang, Lonzo's shot is bad and his current shooting percentage is awful.

In reality, what could it hurt, moving on this now!??

I would wait for half the season to go by, if he is still shooting bricks by then, I say start the re education then.
_________________
I support Magic and Rob!!

Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain

And Vecsey is the most stupid of them all!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Stumpy25
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 27 Oct 2016
Posts: 334

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:20 am    Post subject:

Wino wrote:
defense wrote:
You don't change a shot mid season


Most of the time I would say that, but dang, Lonzo's shot is bad and his current shooting percentage is awful.

In reality, what could it hurt, moving on this now!??

I would wait for half the season to go by, if he is still shooting bricks by then, I say start the re education then.



Good luck with changing someone who's shot has been that way for years. Forcing him to do something different may turn out to be a disaster. He will end up being a confused mess. What you have to do is run plays for him and let him work withing those plays so that he can practice a systematic shot. I can tell you Lonzo will never shoot another way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
KeepItRealOrElse
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 26472

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:50 am    Post subject:

Stumpy25 wrote:
Wino wrote:
defense wrote:
You don't change a shot mid season


Most of the time I would say that, but dang, Lonzo's shot is bad and his current shooting percentage is awful.

In reality, what could it hurt, moving on this now!??

I would wait for half the season to go by, if he is still shooting bricks by then, I say start the re education then.



Good luck with changing someone who's shot has been that way for years. Forcing him to do something different may turn out to be a disaster. He will end up being a confused mess. What you have to do is run plays for him and let him work withing those plays so that he can practice a systematic shot. I can tell you Lonzo will never shoot another way.


They're definetley gunna change his shot..this summer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerLogic
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 11041

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:59 am    Post subject:

I think he has some left side dominance. He prefers finishing with the left even when he should finish right. He prefers shooting from his left eye. It won't be an easy fix.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
JAN24/2/14
Sixth Man
Sixth Man


Joined: 26 Oct 2017
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:14 pm    Post subject:

Man if he clanks he clanks but his misses are airballs about 2 or 3 feet from the rim. Those shots are just atrocious. Hope he eventually figure things out. As bad as that shot looks it seems unblockable once he gets his defender on his right hip ala DLO in the midrange
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 25308

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:21 pm    Post subject:

Stumpy25 wrote:
Wino wrote:
defense wrote:
You don't change a shot mid season


Most of the time I would say that, but dang, Lonzo's shot is bad and his current shooting percentage is awful.

In reality, what could it hurt, moving on this now!??

I would wait for half the season to go by, if he is still shooting bricks by then, I say start the re education then.



Good luck with changing someone who's shot has been that way for years. Forcing him to do something different may turn out to be a disaster. He will end up being a confused mess. What you have to do is run plays for him and let him work withing those plays so that he can practice a systematic shot. I can tell you Lonzo will never shoot another way.


I think you're completely wrong. If Lonzo doesn't change his shot, his NBA career will be severely limited. You simply can't run plays that will cover up his flaws. Right now he's one of the worst shooters in the league, in large part because his shooting form makes him really easy to defend.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PROPHET
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 05 Jul 2001
Posts: 4309
Location: Oxnard, CA - The Nard

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:34 pm    Post subject:

Lakers should hire the guy who helped Kevin Martin with his jump shot. They need to tweak it where hes not cocking it back he has too much of a sling or a hitch to it. He needs to keep his arm extended and not bring it back to his head like he currently does. Link below on Martin and his trainer when he played for sactown.

https://youtu.be/828w-ZruKsk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerSD
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 3025

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:36 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Stumpy25 wrote:
Wino wrote:
defense wrote:
You don't change a shot mid season


Most of the time I would say that, but dang, Lonzo's shot is bad and his current shooting percentage is awful.

In reality, what could it hurt, moving on this now!??

I would wait for half the season to go by, if he is still shooting bricks by then, I say start the re education then.



Good luck with changing someone who's shot has been that way for years. Forcing him to do something different may turn out to be a disaster. He will end up being a confused mess. What you have to do is run plays for him and let him work withing those plays so that he can practice a systematic shot. I can tell you Lonzo will never shoot another way.


I think you're completely wrong. If Lonzo doesn't change his shot, his NBA career will be severely limited. You simply can't run plays that will cover up his flaws. Right now he's one of the worst shooters in the league, in large part because his shooting form makes him really easy to defend.


IMO he has to change it eventually, but he is getting open looks. It seems more of a technical and mental thing than being easy to defend. In theory it is easier to defend but most of his shots have been open/uncontested.

I still agree that he does need to change it so that he is consistent with mechanics and can repeat consistent form.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerSD
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 3025

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:37 pm    Post subject:

PROPHET wrote:
Lakers should hire the guy who helped Kevin Martin with his jump shot. They need to tweak it where hes not cocking it back he has too much of a sling or a hitch to it. He needs to keep his arm extended and not bring it back to his head like he currently does. Link below on Martin and his trainer when he played for sactown.

https://youtu.be/828w-ZruKsk


this also may be a good solution.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
cthroatgtr
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 729

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject:

The real question is how does anyone start shooting that way to begin with? Clearly Dad wasn't as hard on Lonzo as he should have been.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PHILosophize
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 4965

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:46 pm    Post subject:

cthroatgtr wrote:
The real question is how does anyone start shooting that way to begin with? Clearly Dad wasn't as hard on Lonzo as he should have been.


that's been my thought as well - like why not correct that bleep in third grade?
_________________
one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LAPauer
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 14 Jul 2016
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject:

Some interesting comments on his shot on the Lakernation podcast by a shooting coach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_j-gKla8LQ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Rek
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 1714
Location: SoCal

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject:

Wino wrote:
defense wrote:
You don't change a shot mid season


Most of the time I would say that, but dang, Lonzo's shot is bad and his current shooting percentage is awful.

In reality, what could it hurt, moving on this now!??

I would wait for half the season to go by, if he is still shooting bricks by then, I say start the re education then.

I agree with this take. Don't care if traditional approach is waiting for the off-season. If his shot is just as bad by mid-season, it's time to start working on fixing his mechanics.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
splashmtn
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 1665

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:42 am    Post subject:

Wino wrote:
defense wrote:
You don't change a shot mid season


Most of the time I would say that, but dang, Lonzo's shot is bad and his current shooting percentage is awful.

In reality, what could it hurt, moving on this now!??

I would wait for half the season to go by, if he is still shooting bricks by then, I say start the re education then.
it seems as if you guys are not watching the same games I'm watching. Everyone keeps talking about we need to fix his shot. Do you guys believe the only shot he's missing is his 3 ball? are we all watching the same games?

The guy is bricking everything, from deep 3's, short corner 3's, long distance two's, mid range /short two's, floaters, layups at the basket, etc, etc, etc. the only thing he isnt missing right now is dunks in the open court or lobs(which the lakers have literally just now started to run those old ucla plays to get him a lob or two per game. )

the guy is missing everything from every where. shots where his funny form is not the issue. he doesnt have that funny form on layups, yet he's missing those too.

You guys need to ask WHY is a guy that has never bricked like this missing so many shots that are not jump shots? and its not like he's always going up against the other teams great defense. he will beat his man and still blow the layup.

Zo right now has the worse touch in the nba, in college, and in high school. all of a sudden. WHY? thats the question that needs to be asked. how do you completely lose your TOUCH.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
troy
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 986

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:45 am    Post subject:

You cannot change an NBA players shot mechanics. You can adjust, but Lonzo would require a complete overhaul. Not happening at the NBA level.

Magic doesn't care if Lonzo shoots poorly. The issue isn't his shooting. This issue with Lonzo is that he needs to be a playmaker, grab some offensive rebounds to keep things going, and lead this Lakers team. He may be failing on all levels, or at least it seems that way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
tlim
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 Jun 2002
Posts: 6426

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:49 am    Post subject:

Everyone now see the Laker's weakness and that is at the PG. On offense, we're playing 4 on 5 in terms of making a shot.

Really, he floats everywhere on his shot and his mechanics are all broken. bleah...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Laker's Fan
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 6960

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:49 am    Post subject:

Usually you say you can't change a player's shot during the season because his % will plummet. In this case I'm not sure it would get worse than it's been. Hes just flicking it up there.
_________________
2-3-7-14 Los Angeles
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Cutheon
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 6894
Location: Bay Area

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:50 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
Wino wrote:
defense wrote:
You don't change a shot mid season


Most of the time I would say that, but dang, Lonzo's shot is bad and his current shooting percentage is awful.

In reality, what could it hurt, moving on this now!??

I would wait for half the season to go by, if he is still shooting bricks by then, I say start the re education then.
it seems as if you guys are not watching the same games I'm watching. Everyone keeps talking about we need to fix his shot. Do you guys believe the only shot he's missing is his 3 ball? are we all watching the same games?

The guy is bricking everything, from deep 3's, short corner 3's, long distance two's, mid range /short two's, floaters, layups at the basket, etc, etc, etc. the only thing he isnt missing right now is dunks in the open court or lobs(which the lakers have literally just now started to run those old ucla plays to get him a lob or two per game. )

the guy is missing everything from every where. shots where his funny form is not the issue. he doesnt have that funny form on layups, yet he's missing those too.

You guys need to ask WHY is a guy that has never bricked like this missing so many shots that are not jump shots? and its not like he's always going up against the other teams great defense. he will beat his man and still blow the layup.

Zo right now has the worse touch in the nba, in college, and in high school. all of a sudden. WHY? thats the question that needs to be asked. how do you completely lose your TOUCH.


Maybe we should ask if he ever had it. Read earlier that from people who tracked Ball, this shooting performance is more in-line with the Ball they've known, then the en fuego Ball they saw at UCLA. Now, I question how a player can maintain a hot streak for one year of advanced (relative to him, at that time) ball. But, perhaps he did.

what would you do pnp? You can run all the lobs you want, but it doesn't seem like dunks lift the lid off the basket for him. He's looked his best, to me, when he starts off possessions off ball and flows into attacks. Maybe that's what we need to do for now - run him off-ball in half-court, unless he get's the rebound, in which case - run!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
splashmtn
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 1665

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:53 am    Post subject:

troy wrote:
You cannot change an NBA players shot mechanics. You can adjust, but Lonzo would require a complete overhaul. Not happening at the NBA level.

Magic doesn't care if Lonzo shoots poorly. The issue isn't his shooting. This issue with Lonzo is that he needs to be a playmaker, grab some offensive rebounds to keep things going, and lead this Lakers team. He may be failing on all levels, or at least it seems that way.
i can't playmake when guys wont make shots or guys dribble out my assists. there goes that stat.

i can't rebound, when all the bigs are trying to crash the board with me instead of leaking out and allowing me to get the def board to outlet the pass to them for a basket.

Zo can play much faster than the lakers are currently playing. But the lakers including luke has to buy in to that style of play. I'm not sure luke is going to do that since luke knows come play off time things slow down. But what we dont know is, can zo's real style of play be slowed in the playoffs? I dont think it would be. due to the fact its not quick hitter plays. or a bunch of pick and roll stuff. its rebound and kick. you can't stop that unless you run like crazy which will fatigue your bigs, or send multiple guys to crash the offensive glass which will leave you open for fastbreak baskets if you dont secure that board.

now back to this broken shot. again. its not just his shot. its his everything. he has ZERO touch when it comes to scoring. and this has happened all of a sudden. The one thing that worried me about zo was his FT% in college. He shot the ball too well from 3 to shoot that poorly from the ft line. when guys shoot poorly from the ft line that are guard which means they were not supposed to shoot that poorly. It usually means they have a mental road block when it comes to FT's. As cool as a guy lonzo seems to be. he has something going on upstairs that he hasnt figured out how to deal with. and now that bad FT mentality has leaked into every facet of his scoring.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
HumanVictoryCigar
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 6829

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject:

he hit a 3 earlier in the game and held his form. The bricks were rushed and either his hands or feet or both? were off, I wasn't playing close enough attention. He also had a bad pass that was rushed. It may just come down to Lonzo learning to slow himself down, even when he is anxious or excited taking a game winning shot or so on. If he holds his form on his shot, he seems fairly confident in it but many times his hands move faster through the sweeping motion or his feet are off so... maybe it's more of a maturity issue than a form issue... I did say maybe...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
rock0100
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 3846

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:09 am    Post subject:

He should work on his shot but what he really needs ti do is what Ingram has done. Drive, drive, drive to the basket.

His shot will come over time. In the interim he should play tonhis strengths.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
troy
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 986

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
troy wrote:
You cannot change an NBA players shot mechanics. You can adjust, but Lonzo would require a complete overhaul. Not happening at the NBA level.

Magic doesn't care if Lonzo shoots poorly. The issue isn't his shooting. This issue with Lonzo is that he needs to be a playmaker, grab some offensive rebounds to keep things going, and lead this Lakers team. He may be failing on all levels, or at least it seems that way.
i can't playmake when guys wont make shots or guys dribble out my assists. there goes that stat.

i can't rebound, when all the bigs are trying to crash the board with me instead of leaking out and allowing me to get the def board to outlet the pass to them for a basket.

Zo can play much faster than the lakers are currently playing. But the lakers including luke has to buy in to that style of play. I'm not sure luke is going to do that since luke knows come play off time things slow down. But what we dont know is, can zo's real style of play be slowed in the playoffs? I dont think it would be. due to the fact its not quick hitter plays. or a bunch of pick and roll stuff. its rebound and kick. you can't stop that unless you run like crazy which will fatigue your bigs, or send multiple guys to crash the offensive glass which will leave you open for fastbreak baskets if you dont secure that board.

now back to this broken shot. again. its not just his shot. its his everything. he has ZERO touch when it comes to scoring. and this has happened all of a sudden. The one thing that worried me about zo was his FT% in college. He shot the ball too well from 3 to shoot that poorly from the ft line. when guys shoot poorly from the ft line that are guard which means they were not supposed to shoot that poorly. It usually means they have a mental road block when it comes to FT's. As cool as a guy lonzo seems to be. he has something going on upstairs that he hasnt figured out how to deal with. and now that bad FT mentality has leaked into every facet of his scoring.


I still believe that if Lonzo can do other things better, his confidence will increase and his shot will start to fall. He's often compared to Jason Kidd. Well, Kidd was not the best shooter (although he improved his 3-point proficiency), but he was a great rebounder and assist guy, and his defense was better than average.

Too much emphasis is being put on his ugly shot. That's not the issue wiht Lonzo. Magic Johnson has said many times that they want Lonzo to facilitate and lead; they aren't so much concerned about his scoring. Much like Raja Rondo, who is a horrible shooter but does other things, if Lonzo isn't offsetting the points he doesn't provide by making his players better, getting them the ball in the right spots, grabbing some rebounds, and playing some D, then what good is he?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
troy
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 986

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
troy wrote:
You cannot change an NBA players shot mechanics. You can adjust, but Lonzo would require a complete overhaul. Not happening at the NBA level.

Magic doesn't care if Lonzo shoots poorly. The issue isn't his shooting. This issue with Lonzo is that he needs to be a playmaker, grab some offensive rebounds to keep things going, and lead this Lakers team. He may be failing on all levels, or at least it seems that way.
i can't playmake when guys wont make shots or guys dribble out my assists. there goes that stat.

i can't rebound, when all the bigs are trying to crash the board with me instead of leaking out and allowing me to get the def board to outlet the pass to them for a basket.

Zo can play much faster than the lakers are currently playing. But the lakers including luke has to buy in to that style of play. I'm not sure luke is going to do that since luke knows come play off time things slow down. But what we dont know is, can zo's real style of play be slowed in the playoffs? I dont think it would be. due to the fact its not quick hitter plays. or a bunch of pick and roll stuff. its rebound and kick. you can't stop that unless you run like crazy which will fatigue your bigs, or send multiple guys to crash the offensive glass which will leave you open for fastbreak baskets if you dont secure that board.

now back to this broken shot. again. its not just his shot. its his everything. he has ZERO touch when it comes to scoring. and this has happened all of a sudden. The one thing that worried me about zo was his FT% in college. He shot the ball too well from 3 to shoot that poorly from the ft line. when guys shoot poorly from the ft line that are guard which means they were not supposed to shoot that poorly. It usually means they have a mental road block when it comes to FT's. As cool as a guy lonzo seems to be. he has something going on upstairs that he hasnt figured out how to deal with. and now that bad FT mentality has leaked into every facet of his scoring.


I still believe that if Lonzo can do other things better, his confidence will increase and his shot will start to fall. He's often compared to Jason Kidd. Well, Kidd was not the best shooter (although he improved his 3-point proficiency), but he was a great rebounder and assist guy, and his defense was better than average.

Too much emphasis is being put on Lonzo's shot. That's not the issue with Lonzo. Magic Johnson has said many times that they want Lonzo to facilitate and lead; they aren't so much concerned about his scoring. Much like Raja Rondo, who is a horrible shooter but does other things, if Lonzo isn't offsetting the points he doesn't provide by making his players better, getting them the ball in the right spots, grabbing some rebounds, and playing some D, then what good is he?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
kikanga
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 16200
Location: La La Land

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:18 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:


The main/darn near only reason steve kerr and kyle krover are/were on nba rosters is because they can shoot the
The NBA doesn't respect him. So what? They don't respect DSJ, Fox, Ntilikina, and other PGs either. Other than Fox, Ntilikina and DSJ were solid to VERY legit from 3-point range.

The rest of the league should back off. Why? They're rookies. Even the deadliest NCAA shooter last year, Malik Monk, is just a few ticks above 30%.

NONE of these guys are perfectly adjusted to NBA speed, athleticism, and timing yet. When they are, that shot comes around.

NOT worried.


I don't think we should change his shot now. Or even in the offseason. Tweak, sure. But a complete overhaul is probably asking too much since he's been shooting this way for too long now. It bleeds into other parts of his game. His form is why he likes step back shots going to his left.

But I'm worried. I think it's naive not to be. Here is the list of NBA rookies All-Time with 37% TS% or less.
http://bkref.com/tiny/wJlQK
Out of the 600+ names on that list. Only 4-5 of the players give me hope. Avery Bradley, Raja Bell, Al Harrington, Terry Rozier, Michael Redd.
_________________
"The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 4 of 6
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2010 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB