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Vadorojo Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 1507
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:10 pm Post subject: Kuzma vs Nance vs Randle |
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We've got 3 young guys battling for PF minutes. Before summer league, I expected nothing of Kuzma, knew what to expect from Nance and was curious to see the fruits of Randle's work over the summer, but had grown tired of his lack of defense these past few years. I was ready to trade Randle to escape from Deng's contract and free room for the 2018 cap space. Boy, how things have changed just 18 games into the season.
Kuzma - Obviously thrilled by his production. Consistently scoring 15+ a night, and while he still is learning defensively, everyone raves about his work ethic and he's shown a good motor on the court. Brings much needed 3P% to all lineups.
Nance - Still a hustle glue guy who rebounds and works hard defensively. Consummate teammate and citizen. Talk of newfound assertiveness on offense over the summer has not paid off. I'm concerned he might be injury prone.
Randle - Playing out of his mind. His skill set always translated on offense - bullying smaller players and too quick for bigger players. However, I was ready to trade him because his defense was terrible for much of last year. This year, it's been a completely different story. Using his speed to switch on to perimeter players, challenging shots at the rim, rebounding and rotating and hustling with multiple efforts. He's been downright incredible. I will be sorely disappointed if we sacrifice him in the name of cap space.
So how do we solve this PF dilemma? Do we keep Randle only as a backup C? I feel like he's playing too well to limit his minutes behind Lopez. Do we limit Kuzma's minutes? Again, he's playing too well and serves too important a role with his 3P shooting. Nance used to be the Defense vs Randle's Offense, but now, Randle is bringing it on the defensive end, and Nance's Offense is still MIA.
96 minutes to share at C/PF - 32 each for Lopez / Randle / Kuzma. Any spare PF minutes (due to foul trouble) will likely be eaten by small-ball PF Ingram or random Bogut sightings.
I never thought I'd say it, but I think we're best served to trade Nance and get something in return for him. I don't want him taking minutes from Randle/Kuzma, who are both outplaying him. _________________ "I like looking at a guy's face when he realizes that even his best moves aren't going to work on me all night. They look depressed." - Ron Artest
Last edited by Vadorojo on Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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J.C. Smith Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 12665
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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I think once Nance comes back it's going to be a bit of an issue. Kuzma and Randle are both playing great, and Lopez needs minutes if you plan on getting any value for him. Nance however was also playing very well before he went down.
Per 36 minutes numbers:
Lopez: 22.8 points (46.6% fg, 34.2% 3p), 7.1 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 0.6 steals, 2.6 blocks
Randle: 21.1 points (55.2% fg, 28.6% 3p), 11.6 rebounds, 3 assists, 0.7 steals, 1.3 blocks
Kuzma: 19 points (50.7% fg, 33.8% 3p), 7.8 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.5 steals, 0.1 blocks
Nance: 16.5 points (61.4% fg, 0% 3p), 11.7 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 2.1 steals, 1 block
Those are all pretty good statlines. NOTE: This doesn't take tonight's game into account because I'm too lazy to do it manually and the stats haven't been updated yet.
I'm guessing we see some Nance and Randle off the bench combinations and as a result we see less minutes for Kuzma and Randle. I doubt Brook loses too many minutes if the Lakers are thinking trade at the deadline. And I doubt Luke is willing to keep Nance on the pine when he was a starter before the injury. |
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LakersNewEra Star Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2014 Posts: 1526 Location: Vancouver BC
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Well Kuzma is a future star player, he needs to play. Randle is more talented than Nance with a higher upside. While I'm a big fan of Nance...we have 2 players at PF that are better, therefore they need to play ahead of him. It is what it is.
Larry is fantastic, love the guy but Kuzma and Randle are ahead. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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I have nance behind Kuz/Jules. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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It feels like the Lakers would prefer to be more committed to Kuzma and Nance at the moment. I like all 3 guys....all bring very different things to the table. |
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Doc JC Star Player
Joined: 02 May 2012 Posts: 3123
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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What dilemma
Have you guys not seen our backup issues when the subs come in? We need all of them.
Kuzma is having to play massive minutes right now due to the team needing his scoring. We actually need to cut his minutes a bit.
Brook is not long for this team and IMO should be the prime candidate to trade away for a 1st round pick if available.
I also still see Randle playing his best ball at C. His time with Brook on the floor isn’t always very fluid. Him playing C is also where he’s the most valuable due to the teams ability to switch defensively 1-5. |
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TonySoprano17 Rookie
Joined: 21 Nov 2017 Posts: 24
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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i thhink its just not kuzma vs nance vs Randle.
kuz/nance are dirt cheap while Randle will cost 15m next year |
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TEEGUNN Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Dec 2002 Posts: 18086 Location: rocky mountain high
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Kuzma has the most upside.
Randle - we don't even know if we are going to keep him. He has improved again this year, but don't think he is a starter. When his head is on straight and he is engaged, he is effective. He can't shoot from outside the paint yet, but his finishing in the paint has improved tremendously. More than anything, his defense has done a 180. That's because most of the time he is engaged defensively as the small-ball Center, and he takes on the task of being our "anchor" defensively when he plays C. I still think we are better with him coming off the bench, but again - is he OK with that and can we afford to keep him?
Nance - solid guy, but his lack of scoring/shooting ability hurts him. Wish he was a couple inches taller he could play center legitimately. I think he is fine coming off the bench and I think Kuzma adds more to the starting lineup with his shooting, scoring and shot creating ability.
Kuzma is the guy who makes the most sense to start and give the most minutes. _________________ "Why do you think bad things happen, anyway???" "So we have something good to look forward to."
Jake Speed, 1986 |
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PRLakeShow Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2016 Posts: 10460
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Lopez 24
Kuz 28
Randle 28
Nance 24
Kuz plays backup SF minutes. Brewer and Bogut should not be in the regular rotation. They should play in case of foul trouble or matchup concerns. |
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TonySoprano17 Rookie
Joined: 21 Nov 2017 Posts: 24
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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Lope 20
Ingram 30
Divide 28+ 48 + 18 = 94 by 3
Kuz: 14 @pf and 18 @SF
Randle 24 @center and 8 @pf
Nance: 30 @pf/center |
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Vadorojo Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 1507
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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TEEGUNN wrote: | Kuzma has the most upside.
Randle - we don't even know if we are going to keep him. He has improved again this year, but don't think he is a starter. When his head is on straight and he is engaged, he is effective. He can't shoot from outside the paint yet, but his finishing in the paint has improved tremendously. More than anything, his defense has done a 180. That's because most of the time he is engaged defensively as the small-ball Center, and he takes on the task of being our "anchor" defensively when he plays C. I still think we are better with him coming off the bench, but again - is he OK with that and can we afford to keep him?
Nance - solid guy, but his lack of scoring/shooting ability hurts him. Wish he was a couple inches taller he could play center legitimately. I think he is fine coming off the bench and I think Kuzma adds more to the starting lineup with his shooting, scoring and shot creating ability.
Kuzma is the guy who makes the most sense to start and give the most minutes. |
I'm on the fence with the "Randle isn't a starter" argument. Production is production. Randle is producing on both sides of the court when he's in the game and he's still 22! It's not like he's a finished product. We know what to expect from Lopez, but a guy like Randle isn't anywhere close to his prime.
Kuzma is the new kid on the block, and he's exciting and fun, but Julius turns 23 on Nov 29th and Kuzma turns 23 on July 25th. They're not that far apart. Of course, the biggest plus side to Kuzma is that his contract is ludicrously cheap for 4 years, whereas that's the big question with Julius. What should the Lakers do this summer with him? _________________ "I like looking at a guy's face when he realizes that even his best moves aren't going to work on me all night. They look depressed." - Ron Artest |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Doc JC wrote: | Brook is not long for this team and IMO should be the prime candidate to trade away for a 1st round pick if available. . |
I doubt Lopez will be traded, because we won't want to take on long term salary and it will be difficult to find a trade partner who both wants him and can pull together $20 million in expiring contracts. |
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J.C. Smith Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 12665
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:24 am Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | I doubt Lopez will be traded, because we won't want to take on long term salary and it will be difficult to find a trade partner who both wants him and can pull together $20 million in expiring contracts. |
If George wants out of OKC I could see Lopez getting moved as the centerpiece for George. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:42 am Post subject: |
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J.C. Smith wrote: | activeverb wrote: | I doubt Lopez will be traded, because we won't want to take on long term salary and it will be difficult to find a trade partner who both wants him and can pull together $20 million in expiring contracts. |
If George wants out of OKC I could see Lopez getting moved as the centerpiece for George. |
Or the Pelicans and Boogie. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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durden-tyler Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 1266
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:52 am Post subject: |
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Doubtful, but it makes more sense for the Pelicans because with Adams, the Thunder doesn't need a center... |
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oldlakerfan Star Player
Joined: 15 May 2001 Posts: 2146 Location: Tega Cay, South Carolina
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:00 am Post subject: |
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You can open up minutes at SF. Randle can cover SF on defense and Kuz can play that position of offense. Nance is the 3rd guy. It really comes down to Nance taking Brewers minutes.
I see Lopez in a trade for Boogie more than George as OKC already has Adams at center. Plus that would work better for us. Maybe Lopez and JC
A George trade would have to include KCP and maybe Nance with Hart and or Zubac.
If we could get either of those guys without giving up Randle, BI, Lonzo or Kuz that would be something. Brewer would probably have to go too for cap purposes. |
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Chronicle Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012 Posts: 31930 Location: Manhattan
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:07 am Post subject: |
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Randle and Kuzma could play minutes at SF.
Randle as center doesn't work if the PF is Nance, but is fine with Kuzma at PF. _________________ Kobe |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25001
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:10 am Post subject: |
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Chronicle wrote: | Randle and Kuzma could play minutes at SF.
Randle as center doesn't work if the PF is Nance, but is fine with Kuzma at PF. |
Randle can play either bigs spot and cover switches but he can't be full time SF/wing guy
Kuzma, I think, can cover both SF and PF but not strong enough to bang with the big centers
Nance is strickly PF
All three are starting materials, If we get future PF LeBron, 2 of them prob gonna be gone. I'll take Kuzma |
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saetarubia Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 6208
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Nance is a role player and injury prone. I'd take Kuz and Randle. _________________ Showtime 2.0 |
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TEEGUNN Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Dec 2002 Posts: 18086 Location: rocky mountain high
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Vadorojo wrote: | TEEGUNN wrote: | Kuzma has the most upside.
Randle - we don't even know if we are going to keep him. He has improved again this year, but don't think he is a starter. When his head is on straight and he is engaged, he is effective. He can't shoot from outside the paint yet, but his finishing in the paint has improved tremendously. More than anything, his defense has done a 180. That's because most of the time he is engaged defensively as the small-ball Center, and he takes on the task of being our "anchor" defensively when he plays C. I still think we are better with him coming off the bench, but again - is he OK with that and can we afford to keep him?
Nance - solid guy, but his lack of scoring/shooting ability hurts him. Wish he was a couple inches taller he could play center legitimately. I think he is fine coming off the bench and I think Kuzma adds more to the starting lineup with his shooting, scoring and shot creating ability.
Kuzma is the guy who makes the most sense to start and give the most minutes. |
I'm on the fence with the "Randle isn't a starter" argument. Production is production. Randle is producing on both sides of the court when he's in the game and he's still 22! It's not like he's a finished product. We know what to expect from Lopez, but a guy like Randle isn't anywhere close to his prime.
Kuzma is the new kid on the block, and he's exciting and fun, but Julius turns 23 on Nov 29th and Kuzma turns 23 on July 25th. They're not that far apart. Of course, the biggest plus side to Kuzma is that his contract is ludicrously cheap for 4 years, whereas that's the big question with Julius. What should the Lakers do this summer with him? |
Randle still has the issue of too many brain farts. And he can't shoot a lick from beyond the paint. That jumper is ugly and I have my doubts it will ever be even consistently decent. Considering this is his contract season, he is probably playing with more fire at least partly for that reason. What price tag will he accept to continue to be a Laker? I think Kuzma has more overall game and fits much better in todays style of game. More polished and capable all around as a player and as you mentioned, VERY cheap for the next 4 years. _________________ "Why do you think bad things happen, anyway???" "So we have something good to look forward to."
Jake Speed, 1986 |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Play all 3. Except this time, have Randle play C, Nance PF, Kuzma at SF.
This doesn't have to be difficult. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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lakersfan8 Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2014 Posts: 2991
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | Play all 3. Except this time, have Randle play C, Nance PF, Kuzma at SF.
This doesn't have to be difficult. |
Exactly. Except for Nance, the other two players can shift to non-PF position. They all have a different skill set at the moment so we should keep all of them. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:42 am Post subject: |
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If Randle isn’t starting he likely goes elsewhere. If Kuzma can toughen up he could be the solution long term. If not he gets bullied by the bigger players. Nance is a career bench player. I guess it comes down to how much the team seriously values defense. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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silkwilkes Star Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2002 Posts: 6937 Location: searching for the mojo of Dr. Buss
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:58 am Post subject: |
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It's easy for me... Kuzma is the best of the bunch already by a sizeable margin. Nance is a better fit as a backup player than Randle.
Love Randle and how he's playing this year. But I think he's the odd man out.
That said, Nance should be asked to take it away from the other 2 and show he can stay healthy (health being the most important). _________________ "He may say it's not you, it's him.... but it's really you." |
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TonySoprano17 Rookie
Joined: 21 Nov 2017 Posts: 24
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:00 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | If Randle isn’t starting he likely goes elsewhere. If Kuzma can toughen up he could be the solution long term. If not he gets bullied by the bigger players. Nance is a career bench player. I guess it comes down to how much the team seriously values defense. |
learn how cba works.
he cant go anywhere unless the lakers dont want him
Last edited by TonySoprano17 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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