The Avengers: INFINITY WAR (April 2018) - Spoiler Warning (Enter at Own Risk)
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lakerjoshua
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:44 pm    Post subject:

Clark Kent wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Well, for one thing, not even engage in the poor misdirection in the first place. It's just the kind of thing that is lazy and uncreative storytelling and that just kills things for me. Instead of going the whole "OH MY GOD! The Avengers are all DYING!!!" route that no one is going to buy, perhaps do some real storytelling about the characters themselves and how they actually deal with the defeat, both individually and as a group.


Game of Thrones, Jon Snow.

Marvel announced a year ago that Spider-Man HC 2, and GotG 3 were in development before they released Infinity War's trailer, they never hid that fact, so pretty much people have an idea that those heroes were not going to stay "dead".

I also like the fact that Marvel used the symbolism of turning to ashes, instead of having them die with their dead corpses lying on the ground. There's a hugely distinct difference between deaths before the snap and after the snap. Even my 10 year old nephew figured that Spider-Man had a chance of coming back because he just “disappeared.”

What I liked about Infinity War was that they didn't fake it like WB did Batman V Superman with Superman's death, to even go as far as burying his body, having a funeral, and also go as far as not to include him in their JL marketing so audiences still think he's dead.

loslakersss wrote:
^ I don't think the movie was trying to trick anyone into believing the ash-deaths were gonna stick. Everyone should know that the Avengers will reverse it somehow. But this is less about "will they be coming back?" and more of a "how will they come back?"


Pretty much.


I'm not so convinced.

Gamora, Loki and everyone who died during the battles and/or killed by Thanos are all dead for good.

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/avengers/avengers_infinity_war/spoilers-zoe-saldana-talks-in-detail-about-gamoras-unexpected-story-arc-in-avengers-infinity-war-a160178

There's rumors Benedict Cumberbatch wasn't coming back, GOT 3 and Spiderman 2 have no release dates nor is there any word of a BP 2 movie in the works. To add, the Russo's seem content to keep a lot of these characters dead AND this movie was described as brining to an end SEVERAL story arcs.

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/avengers/avengers_infinity_war/spoilers-avengers-infinity-war-directors-address-that-shocking-ending-for-the-first-time-a160177

IHMO everyone thinking there will be some "reverse snap" that brings everyone back might be in for a surprise. To add, I think not only will a lot of these characters remain dead, I can see Iron Man and Capt and Thor also meeting their maker in Avengers 4 as those actors are no longer under contract after Avengers 4.
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:45 pm    Post subject:

Saw it Friday morning.
Want to go watch it again!
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 4:13 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
SPOILERS...

I think the key to this will be Doctor Strange with the time stone. He said earlier that there was 1 scenario (out of the millions) in which they defeat Thanos, and as Doctor Strange was fading away, he told Stark that "it had to be this way", or something like that. As if it's what he wanted.

The most hard-to-accept point of the film for me was Starlord screwing up the entire fate of the universe because he just had to hit Thanos as the plan was working and he was being held in check. Really? Like, I know his woman was killed, but this is fate-of-the-universe stuff. You really are going to be that rash? I don't buy that, and I also think that Stark would've been way more forceful to hold him at bay in that moment. Kind of felt cheap that Thanos got out of that situation in that way. I would've been more impressed had he just somehow gotten out of it without "getting help", so to speak.

Overall though, I really enjoyed it. I could've watched another couple of hours for sure.

Yeah that was basically my thoughts exactly, re: the scene with Dr. Strange.
Which TBH is BS, you're telling me Dr. Strange didn't see a future where they calm down Starlord and therefore defeat Thanos.


It’s more probable that even in the futures where Starlord calmed down (or was teleported or moved away) and they got the Infinity Gauntlet off of Thanos, they still lost, either because Thanos still beat them and took the gauntlet back or someone else grabbed the gauntlet and tried to use the power for themselves and screwed things up. It’s pretty clear that the one path to victory Strange saw was one where Thanos got all the stones and left the guys who are left still alive. Any other path and an essential person (like Stark for example, who Strange gave up the stone to save) or Cap or someone else would have died.
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 5:47 pm    Post subject:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4154796/

That's the IMDB page for Avengers 4 (Infiniti War Part II). On the roster, it includes Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Nebula, Captain Marvel, Black Widow, Bucky*, Black Panther*, the Wasp, Drax*, Hawkeye, Hulk, Ant-Man and War Machine*.

* = Disappeared.

Notably, none of the characters who actually died - Gamora, Loki, Hymdel, or Vision - are currently on the crew list. As for those who disappeared, Spider-Man, Dr. Strange, Peter Quill, Mantis and Nick Fury are currently not on the cast list.

However...
*Spider-Man 2 already has a release date set for July 5, 2019 (after the release of Avengers 4).
*James Gunn has confirmed there will be a GOG 3, which will be the final conclusion to current iteration. He confirmed that Mantis will return. Gunn also confirmed that Adam Warlock is not going to be in the Infiniti War Part II, nor GOG 3.
*Also, Benefict Cumberatch was allowed to see the full Infiniti War script, apparently so he could understand his role in the first part within the context of his role in the second part, so he will be returning.
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:20 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
[What make work in the medium of a comic book doesn't always translate to the way storytelling in film works. I found it incredibly unsatisfying to watch what was otherwise an really fun and engaging movie only to have such a ridiculous "ending" after 2 1/2 hours. Everyone knows those characters aren't actually dying, so why engage in such falseness in an attempt to create drama that's not there? It was a lame misdirect.

They could EASILY have found a way to stay true to whatever storyline in the comic book and come up with a much better and more intriguing ending that really did feel like it left one hanging for the right reasons rather than feeling manipulated by something that's so transparent.


In order to stay true to the comic saga, there really is no other way to end the first part. Unless you prefer the heroes turn to ash in the middle of a movie vs. the end of the first one. Half the universe was going to turn to ash in one way or another.

Essentially, this first installment is about Thanos' quest to acquire all 6 infinity stones. His quest is the centerpiece of the movie. Our heroes turning into ash is the signaling that he completed his mission. The second part is going to show how our heroes resolve this tragedy. Seems perfectly sensible to me how they decided to end the first installment.

But it's definitely jarring to see an ending like this from Marvel, which has traditionally released lighter toned films compared to other studios. But I thought they handled the dark tone really well while still being fun. Shoot, they even did dark better than the DCEU.

If you think ending it that way is just a cash grab by Marvel, well, it took you until the 19th Marvel movie to figure that out?! But this is actually in keeping with the spirit of the comic for the most part.
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 5:23 am    Post subject:

Two Different Perspectives:

SPOILERS----------------------------------

If you look at Infinity War through the heroe's perspective, it feels incomplete. BUT...

If you look at Infinity War though Thanos' perspective, it feels so satisfying. Thanos is basically the "hero" of the movie, and he won, and he got the "sunset" ending he wanted. Marvel made a villain movie, with the villain winning.

I love it.
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:34 am    Post subject:

Thanos is basically intergalactic Hitler if you start thinking about it.
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:40 am    Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:
Thanos is basically intergalactic Hitler if you start thinking about it.


Good point.
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:
Thanos is basically intergalactic Hitler if you start thinking about it.


I disagree. He is basically intergalactic Pol Pot.

Wait, those are actually both terrible comparisons.
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:
Thanos is basically intergalactic Hitler if you start thinking about it.


I was thinking intergalactic Bill Burr (he always says how we need a new plague because there's too may people ).
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject:

loslakersss wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
Thanos is basically intergalactic Hitler if you start thinking about it.


I was thinking intergalactic Bill Burr (he always says how we need a new plague because there's too may people ).


Yes! Hybrid of both actually.
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 2:57 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
BigBallerBrand wrote:
complete waste of time. they will undo all the deaths....pointless film. if thanos really wanted to make the world a better place, is killing 50% of the universe's population really the best way? they tried to humanize his character, but it was a pathetic attempt to add some depth to a shallow character.


Agreed, there was nothing believable about that part of the story at all.


Well they did pull this straight from the source material; in "Rebirth of Thanos" which is a prequel to Infinity Gauntlet he tells Silver Surfer about the problem with overpopulated planets. They took that and applied it to his home planet.

I think this parallels Stark's personality and his wanting to "put a suit of armor" around the planet after he saw what happened in Avengers 1. Thanos' saw his planet destroyed and wanted to prevent it from happening to other planets/the entire universe.

I think it's better than him trying to impress Lady Death or him just being simply evil. It might not be the best and it's all subjective but to me, as someone watching and relating plots to comic book arcs, I thought it was great.

Admittedly I judge Marvel/comic movies differently than others but I thought this was great. Very engaging and enjoyable, pacing wasn't too slow or too fast considering how may characters and plots and while the ash-deaths didn't really have weight to them the real deaths did (Loki, Gamora, Vision).


Having not read the comic books, I can only speak to the film.In the film, there's nothing that is told that deserves and belief that Thanos is anything but a greedy, evil, genocidal monster. Which is why the whole speech he gives before sacrificing Gamora comes off as false. And his whole, trying to save the universe cursed comes across as a disingenuous excuse to serve his own greed. Someone who truly cares about the fate of the universe doesn't go on a slash and burn rampage tp level everything and decimate half the population . . . even in the name of "population control".

This film may hold up to the comic crowd, but without that background, the film has all kinds of issues.
But how do you know this? name us some leaders in the past that had that "population control" as their main them that did it the nice way. I'll wait........
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 3:01 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
Super Spoiler:

Soooo. we're just going to be in here and not ask "WHY" the elephant in the room question of the movie. What the heck was wrong with the hulk and why was he in his feelings?

I have a couple of theories:

1. He was mad he got his a... whooped by thanos.

2. he was mad that banner wouldn't let him go full on 10000% Hulk Smash crazy, which in a physical confrontation is unbeatable because the more your hurt him and piss him off. the stronger and angrier he gets x infinity. The downside to this is that banner nor anyone other person would be able to control him.
I'm still waiting for someone to come up with other possible answer to the above
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 3:01 pm    Post subject:

SPOILERRRRR

When Thanos killed Gamora the scary 3rd character said "A soul for a soul", so, when Thanos is killed at the end of this movie series, Gamora will be resurrected... because I need my Guardians of the Galaxy
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 3:42 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Super Spoiler:

Soooo. we're just going to be in here and not ask "WHY" the elephant in the room question of the movie. What the heck was wrong with the hulk and why was he in his feelings?

I have a couple of theories:

1. He was mad he got his a... whooped by thanos.

2. he was mad that banner wouldn't let him go full on 10000% Hulk Smash crazy, which in a physical confrontation is unbeatable because the more your hurt him and piss him off. the stronger and angrier he gets x infinity. The downside to this is that banner nor anyone other person would be able to control him.
I'm still waiting for someone to come up with other possible answer to the above


I'm not sure if its been established in these films that Hulk DOES get stronger the angrier he gets. I think they might be setting it up for him to go full Hulk and leave Banner for good.
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 3:49 pm    Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:
Two Different Perspectives:

SPOILERS----------------------------------

If you look at Infinity War through the heroe's perspective, it feels incomplete. BUT...

If you look at Infinity War though Thanos' perspective, it feels so satisfying. Thanos is basically the "hero" of the movie, and he won, and he got the "sunset" ending he wanted. Marvel made a villain movie, with the villain winning.

I love it.


Yes, I like that way of looking at it. It really did feel like Thanos' movie to me. I thought Brolin was great.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:42 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Super Spoiler:

Soooo. we're just going to be in here and not ask "WHY" the elephant in the room question of the movie. What the heck was wrong with the hulk and why was he in his feelings?

I have a couple of theories:

1. He was mad he got his a... whooped by thanos.

2. he was mad that banner wouldn't let him go full on 10000% Hulk Smash crazy, which in a physical confrontation is unbeatable because the more your hurt him and piss him off. the stronger and angrier he gets x infinity. The downside to this is that banner nor anyone other person would be able to control him.
I'm still waiting for someone to come up with other possible answer to the above


I think it was the first time Hulk was afraid. He went full out on Thanos and it didn't phase him. Then Thanos turns around and completely owns him without use of any of the stones.

Hulk, up until this point, was thought unkillable so he never feared anything. I think Thanos has changed his mind.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
SPOILERRRRR

When Thanos killed Gamora the scary 3rd character said "A soul for a soul", so, when Thanos is killed at the end of this movie series, Gamora will be resurrected... because I need my Guardians of the Galaxy


Well...

Jordan-esque wrote:
SPOILER!

[Actor] confirms that their character is dead for good.


But, she could always return as flashbacks in Vol 3.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 2:21 pm    Post subject:

loslakersss wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Super Spoiler:

Soooo. we're just going to be in here and not ask "WHY" the elephant in the room question of the movie. What the heck was wrong with the hulk and why was he in his feelings?

I have a couple of theories:

1. He was mad he got his a... whooped by thanos.

2. he was mad that banner wouldn't let him go full on 10000% Hulk Smash crazy, which in a physical confrontation is unbeatable because the more your hurt him and piss him off. the stronger and angrier he gets x infinity. The downside to this is that banner nor anyone other person would be able to control him.
I'm still waiting for someone to come up with other possible answer to the above


I think it was the first time Hulk was afraid. He went full out on Thanos and it didn't phase him. Then Thanos turns around and completely owns him without use of any of the stones.

Hulk, up until this point, was thought unkillable so he never feared anything. I think Thanos has changed his mind.
but that goes back to the other posters reply. thats only IF this movie hulk aint the real hulk. you know. the one that for the most part can't be destroyed due to the fact the harder you hit him the angrier he becomes, the bigger he gets, the stronger he gets into infinity. The only other person off the top of my head that has similar ridiculous power is superman( obvious get that green stuff away...lol.) since he gets his power from radiation and the sun. all he has to do is go out into space and bam. all the radiation and sun(S) he can spare. there are unlimited stars in the universe. so there that goes.

But if hulk has a power limit in the movies. then I with you. he got his a... handed to him and was scared. "Hulk scared now.." in that hulk voice.


then I still wonder about Hulk since Idris Sent him back to earth. Why did he do that when Thanos was kicking a...and taking names on that ship? He could've sent thor some where, or any of the other people that were not dead yet. but he chose to send banner/hulk back home to earth.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:06 pm    Post subject:

^ fear blocked out his anger and took away his power..? Just a guess.

I think Heimdall knew that Hulk/Banner would not survive if he stayed so he chose him as the messenger to warn Earth. He knew Thor could survive being in space.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject:

Chris Pratt confirmed he'll be back as starlord. Pretty much confirmed that all the people who "disappeared" will be back.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Chris Pratt confirmed he'll be back as starlord. Pretty much confirmed that all the people who "disappeared" will be back.


Shocking! Who could have seen that happening . . .
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:52 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Chris Pratt confirmed he'll be back as starlord. Pretty much confirmed that all the people who "disappeared" will be back.


Shocking! Who could have seen that happening . . .


Well, yea... but still nice to know for sure. Makes me happy.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:57 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Chris Pratt confirmed he'll be back as starlord. Pretty much confirmed that all the people who "disappeared" will be back.


Shocking! Who could have seen that happening . . .


Well, yea... but still nice to know for sure. Makes me happy.


That's my whole issue with this film which I found otherwise enjoyable. Why play such a stupid and transparent game with the audience?

Such a wasted opportunity for a great story spent on a silly red herring.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:05 pm    Post subject:

Because that's the Infinity Gauntlet. This is what happened in the comics (which some small artistic license by the filmmaakers). I feel like if both parts were shown together, your gripe wouldn't exist because it would just be part of the story instead of the anti-climactic (predictably resolved) "cliff hanger." I get that its not really a cliff hanger when we all know how it ends, but, frankly, I've walked into almost every Marvel movie knowing, generally, how it was going to end. That's what happens when you even loosely follow the comics.
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