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Day Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 1704 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:50 pm Post subject: Is our bench better than the starters? |
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Was talking to a friend who was making a pretty good case for the fact that our bench is significantly better than our starters. What do you guys think?
Lonzo v JC
KCP v Hart
Ingram v Brewer
Nance v Kuzma
Lopez v Randle
Honestly if those lineups were to play against each other I wouldn't be surprised if the bench took the majority of the wins lol |
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PartyMan Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Jan 2016 Posts: 963 Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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I would only give the edge to BI for the starters. KCP and Hart is a wash. JC is better than Lonzo right now. And Kuz and Randle are our best players at the moment.
So yes, our bench is better than the starters as a whole. _________________ We pour this booze and we drink this booze because we think it's yummy. YUMMY! So over the tounge and down the throat to party in our tummys.
DOWN THE HOLA BITC*OLA!!! |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: Is our bench better than the starters? |
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Day wrote: | Was talking to a friend who was making a pretty good case for the fact that our bench is significantly better than our starters. What do you guys think?
Lonzo v JC
KCP v Hart
Ingram v Brewer
Nance v Kuzma
Lopez v Randle
Honestly if those lineups were to play against each other I wouldn't be surprised if the bench took the majority of the wins lol |
I don't know if the bench is significantly better, but there's probably not a lot of difference between the bench and starters at this point. That's really not uncommon for bad teams frankly. It reflects an overall lack of talent.
I'd give the edge to Pope and Ingram over Hart and Brewer. Kuz and JC win over Ball and Nance. Lopez has been getting a lot of grief from fans lately but for the season as a whole I'd say he and Randle are a wash.
I think our starters are better on defense, our bench better on offense. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: Is our bench better than the starters? |
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activeverb wrote: | I think our starters are better on defense, our bench better on offense. |
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Chronicle Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012 Posts: 31930 Location: Manhattan
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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I think the defense is about equal really _________________ Kobe |
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J.C. Smith Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 12665
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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PG: Lonzo is a better passer, rebounder, defender... JC is a far better scorer. I think you could make an argument for JC here but I'd probably go with Lonzo at this stage due to his upside and overall game. He really needs to get his shooting worked out though.
SG: KCP vs. Hart: That's a no brainer, KCP is far better than Hart. If you count JC as a SG then it's debateable but I think I'd give KCP a slight edge for his stronger defense, JC is the better offensive player.
SF: Ingram vs. Brewer: That's another no brainer. If you want to count Kuzma as a small forward then it becomes a discussion but in the extremely limited SF minutes he's gotten Ingram outperformed him. Kuzma has been best at PF by far.
PF: Nance vs. Kuzma or Randle: I think this the the one slam dunk area where the bench is better than the starters. I'd take Kuzma or Randle over Nance here.
C: Lopez vs. Randle: I think that's a tough one too, depending on the match up. Lopez is a better scorer, though he has been subpar this season. We haven't been utilizing him well. Defensively Lopez is also a better shot blocker. Randle outshines him badly when it comes to perimeter defense and rebounding. I could see the argument for either guy but I think really it would depend on the match up.
So no, I don't think the bench is better than the starters. I think the issue is we have a subpar starting lineup (vs. other starters) and a very good bench (vs. other bench players). Clarkson, Randle, and Kuzma are starting caliber players. Hart, Brewer, and Bogut's corpse are not. |
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trablos Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2017 Posts: 3020
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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The question is, does Luke WANT our bench to be better than the starters? |
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BennyLava Star Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2012 Posts: 3582
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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The opposite, most teams we face have benches that are significantly worse than their starters. |
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BennyLava Star Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2012 Posts: 3582
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: Is our bench better than the starters? |
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adkindo wrote: | activeverb wrote: | I think our starters are better on defense, our bench better on offense. |
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The run different plays. For some reason Luke wants the starters to play a certain way that he doesnt specifically need the 2nd unit to do, who end up playing more freely. |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39324
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:11 am Post subject: |
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I don't know who's better over all but i agree starters are better defenders and bench are better scorers |
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Day Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 1704 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:27 am Post subject: |
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J.C. Smith wrote: | PG: Lonzo is a better passer, rebounder, defender... JC is a far better scorer. I think you could make an argument for JC here but I'd probably go with Lonzo at this stage due to his upside and overall game. He really needs to get his shooting worked out though.
SG: KCP vs. Hart: That's a no brainer, KCP is far better than Hart. If you count JC as a SG then it's debateable but I think I'd give KCP a slight edge for his stronger defense, JC is the better offensive player.
SF: Ingram vs. Brewer: That's another no brainer. If you want to count Kuzma as a small forward then it becomes a discussion but in the extremely limited SF minutes he's gotten Ingram outperformed him. Kuzma has been best at PF by far.
PF: Nance vs. Kuzma or Randle: I think this the the one slam dunk area where the bench is better than the starters. I'd take Kuzma or Randle over Nance here.
C: Lopez vs. Randle: I think that's a tough one too, depending on the match up. Lopez is a better scorer, though he has been subpar this season. We haven't been utilizing him well. Defensively Lopez is also a better shot blocker. Randle outshines him badly when it comes to perimeter defense and rebounding. I could see the argument for either guy but I think really it would depend on the match up.
So no, I don't think the bench is better than the starters. I think the issue is we have a subpar starting lineup (vs. other starters) and a very good bench (vs. other bench players). Clarkson, Randle, and Kuzma are starting caliber players. Hart, Brewer, and Bogut's corpse are not. |
I don't disagree on much except Lonzo v JC but I think even when you give the edge to everyone that you did the bench still is a better unit than the starters in a 5v5 scenario. |
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VicXLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 11823
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:22 am Post subject: |
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I'm guessing the starters win in practice every day...that's why they are starting |
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VicXLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 11823
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:22 am Post subject: Re: Is our bench better than the starters? |
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BennyLava wrote: | adkindo wrote: | activeverb wrote: | I think our starters are better on defense, our bench better on offense. |
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The run different plays. For some reason Luke wants the starters to play a certain way that he doesnt specifically need the 2nd unit to do, who end up playing more freely. | |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:00 am Post subject: |
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BennyLava wrote: | The opposite, most teams we face have benches that are significantly worse than their starters. |
what data did you use to reach this conclusion? |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Our starting lineup consists of two just turned 20 year olds, a 3rd year player, and two expiring contracts. We just don't have the top line talent yet.
Now, if we get 2 max players...well... _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:26 am Post subject: |
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i feel like we have similar convo early last season |
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PHILosophize Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2012 Posts: 10758
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:40 am Post subject: |
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trablos wrote: | The question is, does Luke WANT our bench to be better than the starters? |
_________________ one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:14 am Post subject: |
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"better" is probably the wrong word....."more productive" is the better fit and allows for more objectivity. |
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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23731
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:00 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | "better" is probably the wrong word....."more productive" is the better fit and allows for more objectivity. |
Sounds good to me, in order:
Kuzma
Randle
Clarkson
Ingram
KCP
Lonzo
Lopez
Brewer
Hart
(Nance missed too many games to be included for now). Hart and Brewer might pass Lopez soon. |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39324
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Which bench 5 do you think is better than our current starting 5? |
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LakersRGolden Star Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 7910 Location: Lake Forest
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Give Nance a few games to lose the starting gig to Kuz "correctly" and then it will even out. |
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crazylakerfan001 Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Feb 2011 Posts: 996
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:25 am Post subject: |
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VicXLakers wrote: | I'm guessing the starters win in practice every day...that's why they are starting |
There was an article out before the season that said whichever squad Lonzo was on would win in practice. I wish that was the case for the real games. |
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Stumpy25 Star Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2016 Posts: 1314
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Our bench is definitely more talented than our starters, and like Sir Charles says that's a recipe for disaster. |
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DNA Doc Rookie
Joined: 29 Nov 2017 Posts: 2
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:58 am Post subject: |
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The disparity between the bench and starters is especially evident with poor point guard play. |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Bench is better but not by a huge amount.
Luke's rotations need to change |
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