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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Day wrote: | J.C. Smith wrote: | PG: Lonzo is a better passer, rebounder, defender... JC is a far better scorer. I think you could make an argument for JC here but I'd probably go with Lonzo at this stage due to his upside and overall game. He really needs to get his shooting worked out though.
SG: KCP vs. Hart: That's a no brainer, KCP is far better than Hart. If you count JC as a SG then it's debateable but I think I'd give KCP a slight edge for his stronger defense, JC is the better offensive player.
SF: Ingram vs. Brewer: That's another no brainer. If you want to count Kuzma as a small forward then it becomes a discussion but in the extremely limited SF minutes he's gotten Ingram outperformed him. Kuzma has been best at PF by far.
PF: Nance vs. Kuzma or Randle: I think this the the one slam dunk area where the bench is better than the starters. I'd take Kuzma or Randle over Nance here.
C: Lopez vs. Randle: I think that's a tough one too, depending on the match up. Lopez is a better scorer, though he has been subpar this season. We haven't been utilizing him well. Defensively Lopez is also a better shot blocker. Randle outshines him badly when it comes to perimeter defense and rebounding. I could see the argument for either guy but I think really it would depend on the match up.
So no, I don't think the bench is better than the starters. I think the issue is we have a subpar starting lineup (vs. other starters) and a very good bench (vs. other bench players). Clarkson, Randle, and Kuzma are starting caliber players. Hart, Brewer, and Bogut's corpse are not. |
I don't disagree on much except Lonzo v JC but I think even when you give the edge to everyone that you did the bench still is a better unit than the starters in a 5v5 scenario. |
I think the current situation is ideal for JC: He gets to be a no-conscience gunner off the bench. He's scoring a lot, but overall I'm not sure if he's getting us more than he's giving away. He strikes me as the guy of guy who becomes less valuable as the team improves.
Ball sucks right now, but he's far more important in the long run. Whether or not he improves will influence the future of the team far more than anything JC does. So it's far more important to let Ball and Ingram play through their suckage and hope they improve than to get better play today from guys who won't be here next year and the years ahead. |
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Joe Pesci Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2017 Posts: 3885
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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Best lineup for Lonzo Ball’s style of play:
PG - Ball - Caruso
SG - Clarkson - (Ingram)
C - Deng - Randle
PF - Kuzma - Dunleavy
SF - Pope - Ingram
Give the ball to Clarkson in the halfcourt and turn him loose.
Shelf Nance out of rotation.
Bench Ingram giving him Clarkson’s bench scoring role.
Add Caruso and Dunleavy to fix spacing issues.
Start Deng at center (Randle closes).
Start Lopez at center if Deng struggles mightily there.
Most of you al, won’t get past Deng at center, but the idea is that Deng is the better fit speed wise and shooting wise with Ball. They’d give up rim protection, sure, but it gives the team a distinct offensive identity as a trade off.
Flame away. |
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PHILosophize Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2012 Posts: 10758
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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FLAME ON YOU JOE _________________ one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Joe Pesci wrote: | Best lineup for Lonzo Ball’s style of play:
PG - Ball - Caruso
SG - Clarkson - (Ingram)
C - Deng - Randle
PF - Kuzma - Dunleavy
SF - Pope - Ingram
Give the ball to Clarkson in the halfcourt and turn him loose.
Shelf Nance out of rotation.
Bench Ingram giving him Clarkson’s bench scoring role.
Add Caruso and Dunleavy to fix spacing issues.
Start Deng at center (Randle closes).
Start Lopez at center if Deng struggles mightily there.
Most of you al, won’t get past Deng at center, but the idea is that Deng is the better fit speed wise and shooting wise with Ball. They’d give up rim protection, sure, but it gives the team a distinct offensive identity as a trade off.
Flame away. |
I see what you're going for. I just don't think all the change would have much of a beneficial impact.
Playing Deng on a running team doesn't make much sense to me. He's really suited for being a PF on a slow-paced offensive. The notion that he is a stretch center on a running team doesn't jive with reality for me. If I were going this direction, I'd start Randle, who at least could potentially be part of the future.
I don't like the notion of "letting Clarkson loose in the half court." I think it's counterproductive for us in the long run. Clarkson is really suited to being a 6th man who plays like he's going to be zapped with a tazer if he passes the ball. He's really not an element I'd want to make integral to the starting team.
A team that starts Deng, Kuzma and Clarkson would be pretty hard to watch defensively. That would be a sieve of a team.
Dunleavy is 37, hasn't played this year and might have retired. If he comes back, I see him signing for the minimum on a contending team, not a rebuilding club like us.
So, yeah, we have lots of problems. I think the answer isn't so much in rejiggering the lineup than in accepting that we have a bunch of young players who need to develop over time and mismatched parts who aren't going to be around long. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Is our bench better than the starters? |
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Day wrote: | Was talking to a friend who was making a pretty good case for the fact that our bench is significantly better than our starters. What do you guys think?
Lonzo v JC
KCP v Hart
Ingram v Brewer
Nance v Kuzma
Lopez v Randle
Honestly if those lineups were to play against each other I wouldn't be surprised if the bench took the majority of the wins lol |
I'll take the lineup without Brewer and Hart.
Clarkson's still a sieve defensively. |
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PHILosophize Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2012 Posts: 10758
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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two uses of the word sieve in a row
interesting _________________ one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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PHILosophize wrote: | two uses of the word sieve in a row
interesting |
I didn't see it (no offense, active verb). |
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Capt.Skyhook Star Player
Joined: 29 Feb 2004 Posts: 3991 Location: Louisville, Ky.
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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The bench seems to bail out the starters a lot more than the other way around.
The starters are better individually, but the the bench is a more effective unit. |
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Lonzo-Lite Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2011 Posts: 5085
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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Yes
PG: Ball vs Clarkson
SG: Pope vs Hart
SF: Ingram vs Brewer
PF: Nance vs Kuzma
C: Lopez vs Randle
Starters = 2
Bench = 3 _________________ Tacos |
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crazylakerfan001 Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Feb 2011 Posts: 996
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Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am Post subject: |
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Starters should be:
Clarkson
KCP
Ingram
Randle
Lopez
Bench unit anchored by the rooks Ball + Kuzma
Closers should be:
Clarkson/ Ball (depending on the situation)
KCP
Ingram
Kuzma
Randle
Idk why it has been determined that Randle can only play center. doesnt make any sense. especially when you have a big man like Lopez who can shoot the 3 ball which is a hand in glove fit next to randles aggressiveness. |
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