The problem with the Laker's coaching staff that nobody talks about
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3

 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 25308

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject:

TEEGUNN wrote:

I agree with this. We have basically struck out with our high draft picks. Not a single star player drafted yet. We have done well with getting "gems" in the lower picks, but where we REALLY needed to do well was getting a couple of bonafide all stars with our 2 through 7 picks. We have some good young talent, but compared to the Twolves as you mentioned, we struck out.


Since we picked Randle in 2014, not a single one of the guys chosen 2-7 in those drafts have made an all-star team so you're expectations might be a little unrealistic. (Literally, even if we could change every single pick with complete hindsight we would not have one guy who made an all-star team).

I don't see that we could have taken anyone who is cleary better than Randle with the #7 pick.

It's too early to determine if Ingram and Ball were good or bad choices. (It can take guys 5-7 years to play at an all-star level).

Sure, we could have chosen Porzingis insteads of Russell, but everyone made that mistake.

The Twolves have done well in the draft. But even with an #1 pick, trading an all-NBA star for another overall #1 pick, and trading two picks for a perennial all-star, they are still just a 14-10 team that doesn't frighten anyone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Don Draper
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 25189
Location: RIP DLO

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: The problem with the Laker's coaching staff that nobody talks about

activeverb wrote:
Don Draper wrote:
Positivity.

If you think that's crazy, hear me out.

Go check out the "meet the staff" page on the Lakers website and read about how our assistant coaches view their roles next to Luke:

http://www.nba.com/lakers/archive/Coaching%20Staff

Not a single one of them talks about a specific philosophy, or brings any real experience to the table besides maybe Brian Keefe (yet his claim to fame is still a pep talk about being positive that he had with Kevin Durant in 2014). .


His staff is inexperienced, and that's an issue that many people have noted. That said, I wouldn't evaluate these guys based on these little puff-piece interviews. They read as if the interviewer asked them "How great is it to work with Luke?" rather than probed them about their basketball philosophy.


It's moreso that these puff-pieces are reflective of the deeper research I've done on these coaches, rather than that they are in and of themselves indicative of these coaches' abilities.
_________________
Lonzo Ball Projected 2017-18 Stats: 16pts/8asts/5rebs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Fortysixn2
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 22 Jun 2016
Posts: 905

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:29 pm    Post subject:

Luke and Jesse and the others have the guys playing hard, to me that's the main job of a Head coach at least. They are playing defense and making effort, love it. To that point, he and the staff are doing a great job.

What they are missing, as has been stated, is an X and O's guy. Luke's rotations are terrible and his plays coming out of time outs often end in turnovers or ISO plays. To be fair, Byron was THE WORST at this. I'd say 40-50% of his drawn up plays coming out of timeouts resulted in turnovers.

Luke is actually a good "Head Coach", what he is bad at is picking assistants that compliment his weaknesses. I too don't like Brian Shaw, I don't think he brings much to the table...at least nothing different than what Walton Brings.

Luke needs a really good basketball mind that will watch rotations, draw up plays and work with the Analytics guys to find ways to score. The fact that Larry is back in the starting lineup tells me that either Luke has no relationship with the analytics guy or just doesn't understand. You can't have Lonzo i a lineup where nobody is an above average shooter and I don't even need advanced stats to tell me that.

I don't think Walton will be fired and I think Jesse will stick around, but I think the rest of his staff will be cleaned out over the offseason and replaced with more appropriate people.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
greenfrog
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 30784
Location: Torrance

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject:

They look disorganized and take terrible shots. How much of that is coaching or simply the product of having low IQ players is the question to me.
_________________
Smash-mouth basketball - Officially Dead (2014-2017)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PHILosophize
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 4965

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
They look disorganized and take terrible shots. How much of that is coaching or simply the product of having low IQ players is the question to me.


both but mostly coaching
_________________
one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 25308

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: The problem with the Laker's coaching staff that nobody talks about

Don Draper wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Don Draper wrote:
Positivity.

If you think that's crazy, hear me out.

Go check out the "meet the staff" page on the Lakers website and read about how our assistant coaches view their roles next to Luke:

http://www.nba.com/lakers/archive/Coaching%20Staff

Not a single one of them talks about a specific philosophy, or brings any real experience to the table besides maybe Brian Keefe (yet his claim to fame is still a pep talk about being positive that he had with Kevin Durant in 2014). .


His staff is inexperienced, and that's an issue that many people have noted. That said, I wouldn't evaluate these guys based on these little puff-piece interviews. They read as if the interviewer asked them "How great is it to work with Luke?" rather than probed them about their basketball philosophy.


It's moreso that these puff-pieces are reflective of the deeper research I've done on these coaches, rather than that they are in and of themselves indicative of these coaches' abilities.


I don't know anything your other research so I can't comment on that. I can only express my thoughts about the link you posted, and their comments seem pretty typical for this type of thing so they didn't raise any red flags for me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
pjiddy
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 18629
Location: North Hollywood

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:54 pm    Post subject:

Shaw does feel like a duplicate of Luke's supposed strengths. Would have liked to have seen a stronger x & o's hire there. Do the Lakes know they can hire non-former Lakers for key positions?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
youcantguardme
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 911

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject:

I'm positive that the coaching staff doesn't put a focus on rebounding. I'm not sure that it possible to take more shots with no rebounded in position that the Lakers do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
greenfrog
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 30784
Location: Torrance

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject:

youcantguardme wrote:
I'm positive that the coaching staff doesn't put a focus on rebounding. I'm not sure that it possible to take more shots with no rebounded in position that the Lakers do.


That's largely for defensive purposes and it's worked. They were murdered last season in transition defense.

Some of it's probably shot selection, too.
_________________
Smash-mouth basketball - Officially Dead (2014-2017)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
pmacla
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Posts: 7325
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject:

My problem is he wants to play the "golden State system" it works there because you have 3 of the greatest shooter ever in Curry, Thompson and Durant, everytime the Lakers take a 3 I hope someone is crashing the boards to get the offensive rebound. He right now doesnt have the experience or knowledge to look at his players strengths and play to them, he is trying to fill round holes with square pegs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
The Juggernaut
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 487

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
Great post, dude. It is insane how terrible our assistant coaches are, both as individuals and how they mesh together as a staff.


Not to mention we have no (bleep) certified shooting coach and we're the worst shooting team in the league.

Luke and his drinking buddies need to go.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
The Juggernaut
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 487

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
In a nutshell we went from one coach that uttered useless platitudes based around negativity to one with a staff that echoes useless platitudes about positivity.

Yeah, let's get some X's and O's guys up in this joint. This whole nepotism/cronyism thing isn't working out.


We desperately need this. Also need to have a coach that will take into consideration the analytics. Based on Luke's rotations I don't think he cares about analytics.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
audioaxes
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 9185

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:18 pm    Post subject:

one strong X and O guy
one bulldog who can be the bad guy when necessary
Luke can remain as the laid back cool coach
_________________
tank.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
TooMuchMajicBuss
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 15216
Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:12 am    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
Luke and Jesse and the others have the guys playing hard, to me that's the main job of a Head coach at least. They are playing defense and making effort, love it. To that point, he and the staff are doing a great job.

What they are missing, as has been stated, is an X and O's guy. Luke's rotations are terrible and his plays coming out of time outs often end in turnovers or ISO plays. To be fair, Byron was THE WORST at this. I'd say 40-50% of his drawn up plays coming out of timeouts resulted in turnovers.

Luke is actually a good "Head Coach", what he is bad at is picking assistants that compliment his weaknesses. I too don't like Brian Shaw, I don't think he brings much to the table...at least nothing different than what Walton Brings.
Luke needs a really good basketball mind that will watch rotations, draw up plays and work with the Analytics guys to find ways to score.
The fact that Larry is back in the starting lineup tells me that either Luke has no relationship with the analytics guy or just doesn't understand. You can't have Lonzo i a lineup where nobody is an above average shooter and I don't even need advanced stats to tell me that.

I don't think Walton will be fired and I think Jesse will stick around, but I think the rest of his staff will be cleaned out over the offseason and replaced with more appropriate people.


Exactly. I don't think the entire assistant staff should go, but I'd take Shaw out and put in someone who understands strategy and rotations.

I do have a beef with the idea that, with an entire staff of player development guys, a kid who shot 41% from three last year in college simply can't shoot, even when uncontested now. But that's secondary to your point.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Don Draper
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 25189
Location: RIP DLO

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:34 am    Post subject: Re: The problem with the Laker's coaching staff that nobody talks about

activeverb wrote:
Don Draper wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Don Draper wrote:
Positivity.

If you think that's crazy, hear me out.

Go check out the "meet the staff" page on the Lakers website and read about how our assistant coaches view their roles next to Luke:

http://www.nba.com/lakers/archive/Coaching%20Staff

Not a single one of them talks about a specific philosophy, or brings any real experience to the table besides maybe Brian Keefe (yet his claim to fame is still a pep talk about being positive that he had with Kevin Durant in 2014). .


His staff is inexperienced, and that's an issue that many people have noted. That said, I wouldn't evaluate these guys based on these little puff-piece interviews. They read as if the interviewer asked them "How great is it to work with Luke?" rather than probed them about their basketball philosophy.


It's moreso that these puff-pieces are reflective of the deeper research I've done on these coaches, rather than that they are in and of themselves indicative of these coaches' abilities.


I don't know anything your other research so I can't comment on that. I can only express my thoughts about the link you posted, and their comments seem pretty typical for this type of thing so they didn't raise any red flags for me.


Just a taste:

Quote:
Blake Murphy: The biggest thing Mermuys brings to the table is player development. Even in just a single year, the 905 experiment proved remarkably valuable from that standpoint. Axel Toupane played his way into an NBA contract, Greg Smith was able to re-establish himself as an NBA player, Ronald Roberts had himself on the cusp of a call-up before injury struck, Norman Powell improved a great deal as a playmaker, Delon Wright's pick-and-roll defense improved, and Bruno Caboclo took strides (although he's still far away) across the board. Even Davion Berry, acquired at the trade deadline, took off in just 10 games with the club.

How much of that is scouting and how much is coaching is unclear (Mermuys was also the team's assistant general manager), but given the individual improvements, particularly with Toupane and Powell, it's easy to get excited about what Mermuys may be able to do with the Lakers' young core.

He's also unrelentingly positive and seems, from the outside, like a natural fit with Luke Walton


Positivity and a focus on player development aren't red flags unless such you're getting those same two things from every single person on the coaching staff. It's the absence of a true X's and O's savant that is the red flag.
_________________
Lonzo Ball Projected 2017-18 Stats: 16pts/8asts/5rebs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Dr. Funkbot
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 7155
Location: Eagle Rock

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:52 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
They look disorganized and take terrible shots. How much of that is coaching or simply the product of having low IQ players is the question to me.


I know I am getting repetitive but does no one remember that Luke said he did not have time to implement his offense in the shortened pre-season? He spent the whole camp on D- it shows! Their D is great for a young team.

To me looking disorganized is a symptom of the offense having not been installed in the training camp. It should improve as the season goes on and the staff has more time to teach the offense to the team. If we still look this bad in February I will be more concerned.
_________________
R.I.P. Doc Buss

"I think we often overlook the best way for a team like these Lakers to obtain star level players is to turn their current players into stars, rather than looking for outside help."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersfan85
Sixth Man
Sixth Man


Joined: 02 Nov 2016
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject:

pmacla wrote:
My problem is he wants to play the "golden State system" it works there because you have 3 of the greatest shooter ever in Curry, Thompson and Durant, everytime the Lakers take a 3 I hope someone is crashing the boards to get the offensive rebound. He right now doesnt have the experience or knowledge to look at his players strengths and play to them, he is trying to fill round holes with square pegs


to be fair, most coaches can't successful coach multiple systems at a high level. DAntoni is notorious for not being able to coach any other way...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
mookielala
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 29 Jul 2012
Posts: 828

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject:

Positivity is a scarce resource on Lakersground
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 25308

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:


Just a taste:

Quote:
Blake Murphy: The biggest thing Mermuys brings to the table is player development. Even in just a single year, the 905 experiment proved remarkably valuable from that standpoint. Axel Toupane played his way into an NBA contract, Greg Smith was able to re-establish himself as an NBA player, Ronald Roberts had himself on the cusp of a call-up before injury struck, Norman Powell improved a great deal as a playmaker, Delon Wright's pick-and-roll defense improved, and Bruno Caboclo took strides (although he's still far away) across the board. Even Davion Berry, acquired at the trade deadline, took off in just 10 games with the club.

How much of that is scouting and how much is coaching is unclear (Mermuys was also the team's assistant general manager), but given the individual improvements, particularly with Toupane and Powell, it's easy to get excited about what Mermuys may be able to do with the Lakers' young core.

He's also unrelentingly positive and seems, from the outside, like a natural fit with Luke Walton


Positivity and a focus on player development aren't red flags unless such you're getting those same two things from every single person on the coaching staff. It's the absence of a true X's and O's savant that is the red flag.


I get the impression you've locked in your opinion about the coaching staff, so you interpret everything you read in a way that ratifies that opinion. I have no idea if your overall opinion about the staff is right or wrong. But none of the stuff you've been quoting has seemed like a red flag or big deal to me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2010 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB