|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
trablos
Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 3020
|
 Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Is the Pincus plan for Deng still in play? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
l4kerz
Star Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 1572
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dcarter4kobe wrote: | If the cost of signing 2 max free agents is
Jordan Clarkson
Larry Nance
Ivica Zubac
2020 1st round draft pick
Are you in favor? |
No 1st. LGers are so willing to give up 1st. If it is needed, at least put protection like the rest of the NBA. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dr. Funkbot
Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 8188
Location: Eagle Rock
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'd rather keep clarkson and Randle, dump Lopez and KCP and go for the 1 FA plan. JC and JR and gelling now, they are getting good and I don't want to see all of the development time that we have spent on them going to help some other team.
_________________
R.I.P. Doc Buss |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
JC got showcased very well against the Hornets.
Pay up, Charlotte! You need him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joe Pesci
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 3885
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| If Deng is traded for space, the Lakers will have almost 55 million in space. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23788
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| epak wrote: | JC got showcased very well against the Hornets.
Pay up, Charlotte! You need him. |
The ladies of Charlotte aren’t ready  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| trablos wrote: | | Is the Pincus plan for Deng still in play? |
Pincus never suggested the idea was "in play." It was just his own idea of something the team could possibly do, rather than something they were considering.
Really haven't heard anyone talking about it since the article came out, and it's anyone's guess if the Lakers would actually consider it, if Deng would actually consider it, and the league would actually allow it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cooleggs
Starting Rotation
Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 667
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | I'd rather keep clarkson and Randle, dump Lopez and KCP and go for the 1 FA plan. JC and JR and gelling now, they are getting good and I don't want to see all of the development time that we have spent on them going to help some other team. |
This!
You guys overvalue those "On paper" teams you put together way too much! "On Paper" Nash, Kobe, and D12 should have at least made it to the WCF. "On Paper" OKC should be killing it now. "On Paper" a jump shooting team can't win, right?
"F" that paper. Look and see what's working. JC and JR are working -- they are growing. PG13 is a guy who actually took a team far in the East. He's a SoCal kid that wants to be a Laker. Boogie is just a big kid that needs a team built around the way he plays - and he's not done anything yet.
Magic - Please take the long path instead of the quick "we are contenders now" play - that even "if" it works, fizzles out fast and your back rebuilding. We can always be opportunistic. Nobody thought Kyrie was leaving the Cavs. There are always opportunities. Keep some of that powder dry.
Plus, JC and JR have shown enough value that they will be trade-able if something comes up. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerSD wrote: | | epak wrote: | JC got showcased very well against the Hornets.
Pay up, Charlotte! You need him. |
The ladies of Charlotte aren’t ready |
For the ladies! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cooleggs wrote: | | Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | I'd rather keep clarkson and Randle, dump Lopez and KCP and go for the 1 FA plan. JC and JR and gelling now, they are getting good and I don't want to see all of the development time that we have spent on them going to help some other team. |
This!
You guys overvalue those "On paper" teams you put together way too much! "On Paper" Nash, Kobe, and D12 should have at least made it to the WCF. "On Paper" OKC should be killing it now. "On Paper" a jump shooting team can't win, right?
"F" that paper. Look and see what's working. JC and JR are working -- they are growing. PG13 is a guy who actually took a team far in the East. He's a SoCal kid that wants to be a Laker. Boogie is just a big kid that needs a team built around the way he plays - and he's not done anything yet.
Magic - Please take the long path instead of the quick "we are contenders now" play - that even "if" it works, fizzles out fast and your back rebuilding. We can always be opportunistic. Nobody thought Kyrie was leaving the Cavs. There are always opportunities. Keep some of that powder dry.
Plus, JC and JR have shown enough value that they will be trade-able if something comes up. |
Of course, based on this reasoning the Cavs shouldn't have re-acquired Lebron and traded so many picks and young players to build a team around him. But that work out pretty well. Doing what works on paper sometimes work, and sometimes fails.
Both the long path and the short path can succeed or fail too. In the case of the current Lakers, I don't clearly see an approach I think is better. Cousins and George don't strike me as a rocket jet to the finals; the current young players, while showing varying degrees of progress, haven't shown enough for me to declare them the next big thing.
All that said, Magic is invested in getting stars, so my expectations is he will get them if he can; if our current core remains largely in place, it will be because Magic failed in his free agent quest rather than because that's what he preferred. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cooleggs
Starting Rotation
Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 667
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| activeverb wrote: | | cooleggs wrote: | | Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | I'd rather keep clarkson and Randle, dump Lopez and KCP and go for the 1 FA plan. JC and JR and gelling now, they are getting good and I don't want to see all of the development time that we have spent on them going to help some other team. |
This!
You guys overvalue those "On paper" teams you put together way too much! "On Paper" Nash, Kobe, and D12 should have at least made it to the WCF. "On Paper" OKC should be killing it now. "On Paper" a jump shooting team can't win, right?
"F" that paper. Look and see what's working. JC and JR are working -- they are growing. PG13 is a guy who actually took a team far in the East. He's a SoCal kid that wants to be a Laker. Boogie is just a big kid that needs a team built around the way he plays - and he's not done anything yet.
Magic - Please take the long path instead of the quick "we are contenders now" play - that even "if" it works, fizzles out fast and your back rebuilding. We can always be opportunistic. Nobody thought Kyrie was leaving the Cavs. There are always opportunities. Keep some of that powder dry.
Plus, JC and JR have shown enough value that they will be trade-able if something comes up. |
Of course, based on this reasoning the Cavs shouldn't have re-acquired Lebron and traded so many picks and young players to build a team around him. But that work out pretty well. Doing what works on paper sometimes work, and sometimes fails.
Both the long path and the short path can succeed or fail too. In the case of the current Lakers, I don't clearly see an approach I think is better. Cousins and George don't strike me as a rocket jet to the finals; the current young players, while showing varying degrees of progress, haven't shown enough for me to declare them the next big thing.
All that said, Magic is invested in getting stars, so my expectations is he will get them if he can; if our current core remains largely in place, it will be because Magic failed in his free agent quest rather than because that's what he preferred. |
The Cav's didn't reacquire LBJ so much as LBJ decided to go back to the Cavs because he wanted to bring a chip to his home town (yeah - he's from Ackron) and also exercise some of his personal demons. LA is NOT Cleveland.
In any case, once he leaves, Cleveland will be Cleveland again - and for a long a$$ time too! Miami is also in ruins as well. IMO The GS model is the best path. Natural growth with a smigg of opportunism. When we got Shaq, that was being opportunistic. Kobe was natural. Kareem was opportunistic, Magic was natural. Most time it takes both.
You can't buy a chip without major side effects. There's no free lunch. And my fear is that we give away what we've invested in, for some pipe. When reality hits - it'll hit hard. Remember all the folks here who wanted to trade BI for cousins because BI sucked? How's that looking now?
I'm a Laker fan for the long run. We've been so spoiled (especially dudes and ladies on this board). We are not owed a chip every year. We don't have to contend every year. Folks should understand that. But if we make good, prudent decisions - along with a gamble here and there -- we'll be fine -- we'll be fun too! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wonder what JC's trade value is right now (not necessarily advocating trading him now). Would love to see what other teams valued him pre-season until now. I would surmise it has increased, but what would teams give up for him.
I wonder if OKC would, after seeing JC's improvement this year, consider him as part of a trade deal (though I'm not sure OKC breaks it up unless PG13 tells the FO that he's not re-signing there...remember OKC does not play around when their player reveals their future with them, ex. Harden).
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joe Pesci
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 3885
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Teams would trade a first round pick projected to be in the teens for Clarkson, IMO.
OKC and Clarkson, to me, is an awful pairing for all parties. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | Wonder what JC's trade value is right now (not necessarily advocating trading him now). Would love to see what other teams valued him pre-season until now. I would surmise it has increased, but what would teams give up for him.
I wonder if OKC would, after seeing JC's improvement this year, consider him as part of a trade deal (though I'm not sure OKC breaks it up unless PG13 tells the FO that he's not re-signing there...remember OKC does not play around when their player reveals their future with them, ex. Harden). |
I think that OKC would prefer losing George's salary than paying luxury tax for JC.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cooleggs
Starting Rotation
Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 667
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think the point of his value going up with multiple teams expressing interest should be enough to halt the "trade high right now so we can maybe get some superstar savior in the summer of 2018 - maybe - cross your fingers" plan.
If there are deals to be done in the summer, someone will be interested in JC. If there's not -- (and by the way -- that should be your plan A/default) -- then you keep it moving, sign PG13, and bring a shot doc to fix Ball's 3 -- and get to the playoffs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Wonder what JC's trade value is right now (not necessarily advocating trading him now). Would love to see what other teams valued him pre-season until now. I would surmise it has increased, but what would teams give up for him.
I wonder if OKC would, after seeing JC's improvement this year, consider him as part of a trade deal (though I'm not sure OKC breaks it up unless PG13 tells the FO that he's not re-signing there...remember OKC does not play around when their player reveals their future with them, ex. Harden). |
I think that OKC would prefer losing George's salary than paying luxury tax for JC. |
He's making less than DIPO was on OKC; would be making less than half of what PG13 is making. He would still give you good production for the value and is durable.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cooleggs wrote: | | And my fear is that we give away what we've invested in, for some pipe. When reality hits - it'll hit hard. Remember all the folks here who wanted to trade BI for cousins because BI sucked? How's that looking now? |
Sure, that could happen. We could also keep all our young players, and they might not turn into anything special, and then we'd be kicking ourselves for not trading them when their perceived value was higher. That happens all the time too.
That's life in the NBA. There are 30 teams, and every year only one wins a ring, only two get to the finals, and only four make the conference finals. No matter what approach you take, you are much more likely to fail than succeed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
2019
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10812
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Wonder what JC's trade value is right now (not necessarily advocating trading him now). Would love to see what other teams valued him pre-season until now. I would surmise it has increased, but what would teams give up for him.
I wonder if OKC would, after seeing JC's improvement this year, consider him as part of a trade deal (though I'm not sure OKC breaks it up unless PG13 tells the FO that he's not re-signing there...remember OKC does not play around when their player reveals their future with them, ex. Harden). |
I think that OKC would prefer losing George's salary than paying luxury tax for JC. |
Which is why a deal like KCP + Nance + Zu + 2nd should be attractive to them (in theory).
I mean you downgrade from George to KCP but you're not tied to his contract beyond this year and you can probably keep him for around $15MM per next year and he is arguably a better fit next to Westbrook anyway. For that downgrade, you get Nance, Zu and a 2nd.
I know it won't happen and OKC is going to roll the dice but it would not be terrible option for them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 2019 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Wonder what JC's trade value is right now (not necessarily advocating trading him now). Would love to see what other teams valued him pre-season until now. I would surmise it has increased, but what would teams give up for him.
I wonder if OKC would, after seeing JC's improvement this year, consider him as part of a trade deal (though I'm not sure OKC breaks it up unless PG13 tells the FO that he's not re-signing there...remember OKC does not play around when their player reveals their future with them, ex. Harden). |
I think that OKC would prefer losing George's salary than paying luxury tax for JC. |
Which is why a deal like KCP + Nance + Zu + 2nd should be attractive to them (in theory).
I mean you downgrade from George to KCP but you're not tied to his contract beyond this year and you can probably keep him for around $15MM per next year and he is arguably a better fit next to Westbrook anyway. For that downgrade, you get Nance, Zu and a 2nd.
I know it won't happen and OKC is going to roll the dice but it would not be terrible option for them. |
Yeah, that theory is sound if OKC wants the contract to expire.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 2019 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Wonder what JC's trade value is right now (not necessarily advocating trading him now). Would love to see what other teams valued him pre-season until now. I would surmise it has increased, but what would teams give up for him.
I wonder if OKC would, after seeing JC's improvement this year, consider him as part of a trade deal (though I'm not sure OKC breaks it up unless PG13 tells the FO that he's not re-signing there...remember OKC does not play around when their player reveals their future with them, ex. Harden). |
I think that OKC would prefer losing George's salary than paying luxury tax for JC. |
Which is why a deal like KCP + Nance + Zu + 2nd should be attractive to them (in theory).
I mean you downgrade from George to KCP but you're not tied to his contract beyond this year and you can probably keep him for around $15MM per next year and he is arguably a better fit next to Westbrook anyway. For that downgrade, you get Nance, Zu and a 2nd.
I know it won't happen and OKC is going to roll the dice but it would not be terrible option for them. |
Agree, OKC is in it this season to see what this group can do, if PG is traded it would be after the season. And that is doubtful because letting PG walk equals trading him for an ending contract. If they can show that they are close to competing, their ownership might pay for salary going forward after this season, but if not, they likely look for salary relief.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cooleggs
Starting Rotation
Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 667
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| activeverb wrote: | | cooleggs wrote: | | And my fear is that we give away what we've invested in, for some pipe. When reality hits - it'll hit hard. Remember all the folks here who wanted to trade BI for cousins because BI sucked? How's that looking now? |
Sure, that could happen. We could also keep all our young players, and they might not turn into anything special, and then we'd be kicking ourselves for not trading them when their perceived value was higher. That happens all the time too.
That's life in the NBA. There are 30 teams, and every year only one wins a ring, only two get to the finals, and only four make the conference finals. No matter what approach you take, you are much more likely to fail than succeed. |
Sure - my point is only that you error on the side of what is working. Investing in our talent and trying to develop them is more effective than trading all of what you've grown for a quick fix.
Now should we ONLY look to development from within? No - we are not Memphis or Milwaukee. This is LA, someone will want to come and get that Laker love (and marketing opportunities). My thing is not to trade everything for a pipe (and a pipe that won't even get us past GS).
PG13 is our gift from above - a star-superstar level guy who wants us. Bank that. It saves us years of development without added risk.
Pair that with what we've grown -- including JC and JR -- and we've improved. You all must not remember when Steph always had ankle issues -- Klay smoked too much bud, Draymond was a point guard and we beat them with a stick every year. Then something happened. Something clicked. It was beautiful to see. I'm sure it was wonderful for our Bay area brethren to experience. Something similar is happening in Philly too -- and we've held our own against them.
That's what we have a chance at - if we're 1)patient (ala JC and JR) and 2) opportunistic (ala PG13) -- we'll have moved the needle forward. The dreaded Celtics did something similar and are on there way.
Let's follow that path - and we'll be primed once GS starts coming a little closer to earth. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cooleggs wrote: |
Sure - my point is only that you error on the side of what is working. Investing in our talent and trying to develop them is more effective than trading all of what you've grown for a quick fix. |
I'm indifferent myself.
The young guys have played well enough that I'm cool if the Lakers go your direction.
But they haven't played so well that I would be upset if Magic follows through on his master plan.
Last edited by activeverb on Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pjiddy
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29077
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Wonder what JC's trade value is right now (not necessarily advocating trading him now). Would love to see what other teams valued him pre-season until now. I would surmise it has increased, but what would teams give up for him.
I wonder if OKC would, after seeing JC's improvement this year, consider him as part of a trade deal (though I'm not sure OKC breaks it up unless PG13 tells the FO that he's not re-signing there...remember OKC does not play around when their player reveals their future with them, ex. Harden). |
I think that OKC would prefer losing George's salary than paying luxury tax for JC. |
No, but Clarkson may prove a more moveable piece with two years left on his deal (and a now decent price). Letting George simply walk doesn't put them under the cap and they really have no choice but to stay competitive with Westbrook looking very unmoveable. They couldn't tank even if they wanted to.
I agree they try to make it work, but if they're still struggling to be a .500 team/8th seed, and George is still giving "i'm gonna weigh all my options this offseason" responses, Presti might try to make a move. He can't get away with trading George for a pick (unless it's the Cavs/Brooklyn pick), I don't see any expiring players out there that would allow OKC to remain competitive this season. Bennett is notoriously anti-lux tax, but he is paying it this year, and long-term he might not be able to afford the franchise stigma of losing yet another high-profile player for nothing. Trading PG for a player(s) on a multi-year deal may not be as remote as we think.
Trading PG for Clarkson/Nance/Brewer/Zubac and a Heavily-protected 1st has the feel of a decent haul, with three guys that bolster their bench (while clarifying the "too few balls" problem for their 3-headed usage monster) and a couple future assets the fans can overrate in Zubac and the 1st rounder.
Last edited by pjiddy on Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
PG13, if he wanted to, can really sabotage this. When Harden told Presti he wasn't going to sign they shipped his butt out. I think Presti would do the same if PG13 told them he's not staying.
Clearly PG13 has not done that...yet/
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | PG13, if he wanted to, can really sabotage this. When Harden told Presti he wasn't going to sign they shipped his butt out. I think Presti would do the same if PG13 told them he's not staying.
Clearly PG13 has not done that...yet/ |
Any team that gives up a lot of assets for Paul at this point would likely want him to sign an extension. He may well want to wait and see how teams do, and what other free agents do. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
