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Bard207
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 Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | PG13, if he wanted to, can really sabotage this. When Harden told Presti he wasn't going to sign they shipped his butt out. I think Presti would do the same if PG13 told them he's not staying.
Clearly PG13 has not done that...yet/ |
I wonder if Presti has a date circled on the calendar (pre trade deadline) that he will sit down and ask Paul George where he is mentally about staying with OKC. |
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2019
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | PG13, if he wanted to, can really sabotage this. When Harden told Presti he wasn't going to sign they shipped his butt out. I think Presti would do the same if PG13 told them he's not staying.
Clearly PG13 has not done that...yet/ |
That is not what happened though... Harden wasn't willing to accept less than the max and thus they decided to trade him.
OKC knows they have to give PG the max. They're going to be willing to as well. Its just a matter if Paul wants it from them or elsewhere. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | I wonder if Presti has a date circled on the calendar (pre trade deadline) that he will sit down and ask Paul George where he is mentally about staying with OKC. |
More likely than not, I'd expect George to give the ever-popular: "I'm happy here, but I'm just going to focus right on playing and not think about next season until this one is over." |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | I wonder if Presti has a date circled on the calendar (pre trade deadline) that he will sit down and ask Paul George where he is mentally about staying with OKC. |
More likely than not, I'd expect George to give the ever-popular: "I'm happy here, but I'm just going to focus right on playing and not think about next season until this one is over." |
You are probably right.
Presti has a tough decision to make if OKC is borderline for the playoffs the week of the trade deadline. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: |
Presti has a tough decision to make if OKC is borderline for the playoffs the week of the trade deadline. |
Presti went all in on George; a trade seems unlikely to me. |
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epak
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Presti is probably pissed off that Oladipo is doing so well.
And now finally realizes that Russell has been and is the problem. |
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Shaber
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| cooleggs wrote: |
Sure - my point is only that you error on the side of what is working. Investing in our talent and trying to develop them is more effective than trading all of what you've grown for a quick fix.
Now should we ONLY look to development from within? No - we are not Memphis or Milwaukee. This is LA, someone will want to come and get that Laker love (and marketing opportunities). My thing is not to trade everything for a pipe (and a pipe that won't even get us past GS).
PG13 is our gift from above - a star-superstar level guy who wants us. Bank that. It saves us years of development without added risk.
Pair that with what we've grown -- including JC and JR -- and we've improved. You all must not remember when Steph always had ankle issues -- Klay smoked too much bud, Draymond was a point guard and we beat them with a stick every year. Then something happened. Something clicked. It was beautiful to see. I'm sure it was wonderful for our Bay area brethren to experience. Something similar is happening in Philly too -- and we've held our own against them.
That's what we have a chance at - if we're 1)patient (ala JC and JR) and 2) opportunistic (ala PG13) -- we'll have moved the needle forward. The dreaded Celtics did something similar and are on there way.
Let's follow that path - and we'll be primed once GS starts coming a little closer to earth. |
 
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Lakers depth chart
PG Johnson / Goodrich
SG Bryant / West / Scott
SF Baylor / Worthy / Cooper
PF Mikkelsen / Hairston / McAdoo / Gasol
C Chamberlain / Abdul-Jabbar / O'Neal / Mikan |
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| cooleggs wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | cooleggs wrote: | | And my fear is that we give away what we've invested in, for some pipe. When reality hits - it'll hit hard. Remember all the folks here who wanted to trade BI for cousins because BI sucked? How's that looking now? |
Sure, that could happen. We could also keep all our young players, and they might not turn into anything special, and then we'd be kicking ourselves for not trading them when their perceived value was higher. That happens all the time too.
That's life in the NBA. There are 30 teams, and every year only one wins a ring, only two get to the finals, and only four make the conference finals. No matter what approach you take, you are much more likely to fail than succeed. |
Sure - my point is only that you error on the side of what is working. Investing in our talent and trying to develop them is more effective than trading all of what you've grown for a quick fix.
Now should we ONLY look to development from within? No - we are not Memphis or Milwaukee. This is LA, someone will want to come and get that Laker love (and marketing opportunities). My thing is not to trade everything for a pipe (and a pipe that won't even get us past GS).
PG13 is our gift from above - a star-superstar level guy who wants us. Bank that. It saves us years of development without added risk.
Pair that with what we've grown -- including JC and JR -- and we've improved. You all must not remember when Steph always had ankle issues -- Klay smoked too much bud, Draymond was a point guard and we beat them with a stick every year. Then something happened. Something clicked. It was beautiful to see. I'm sure it was wonderful for our Bay area brethren to experience. Something similar is happening in Philly too -- and we've held our own against them.
That's what we have a chance at - if we're 1)patient (ala JC and JR) and 2) opportunistic (ala PG13) -- we'll have moved the needle forward. The dreaded Celtics did something similar and are on there way.
Let's follow that path - and we'll be primed once GS starts coming a little closer to earth. |
You make fair points, except when you exaggerate. |
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:27 am Post subject: |
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The goals should be signing George for max (30 mill/year), foraging and securing a deal for Deng, then seeing about “other” interested parties (namely James and Cousins).
If James or Cousins want in, a deal is brokered to trade Deng (with draft picks + Nance, if necessary) to a team with space (like Atlanta or Chicago). “New guy” makes only 28 mill (2 mill under Cousins’ max and 7 mill under James’)
If James or Cousins don’t want in, go about your business with George and Deng (unstretched) on your roster. |
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PHILosophize
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | The goals should be signing George for max (30 mill/year), foraging and securing a deal for Deng, then seeing about “other” interested parties (namely James and Cousins).
If James or Cousins want in, a deal is brokered to trade Deng (with draft picks + Nance, if necessary) to a team with space (like Atlanta or Chicago). “New guy” makes only 28 mill (2 mill under Cousins’ max and 7 mill under James’)
If James or Cousins don’t want in, go about your business with George and Deng (unstretched) on your roster. |
You think it'd be better to just leave Deng on the roster in that case? I think if we get PG we are going to be very close to being a playoff team and that extra cap might get us over the hump into the playoffs.
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PHILosophize
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:30 am Post subject: |
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It's a tough call though.
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:46 am Post subject: |
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I’d definitely keep him and play him.
I like Travis Wear as the backup PF next year behind Kuzma, but if Deng isn’t traded, he’d have that role. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | I’d definitely keep him and play him.
I like Travis Wear as the backup PF next year behind Kuzma, but if Deng isn’t traded, he’d have that role. |
IMO Deng not playing is a decision based more on philosophy and desire to develop the young players more then his complete inability to contribute.
Deng is not going to ever play to the level of his contract. Fans need to get over that. But he can still have a bench role. Especially on a more "win now" minded team and if they trade away depth as some continue to speculate.
Not my preferred plan but feasible if the 2 max dream ends. Just another option to consider if you take away the emotional aspect of Deng as the favorite complaint. IMO still capable of giving 10-15 mpg off the bench if needed. |
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Big Game James
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | Deng not playing is a decision based more on philosophy and desire to develop the young players more then his complete inability to contribute. |
I think that is only half of it. I believe the other half lies in waiting Deng out in hopes that he begins pushing for a buyout of his contract. The lack of playing time would make him antsy. Plus, without showcasing what Deng has left in the tank (if anything is left in the tank), teams are left to their own imagination on what Deng's value is. This could work to our advantage since we know what his value is based on game practices and scrimmages.
Our best option might just be leaving Deng to rot on the bench.
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h2omike
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:16 am Post subject: |
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The most likely free agent to come here is PG. James would be second but I think leaving the East is something LBJ will not do. It doesn't seem possible to trade Deng unless we trade Clarkson or Randle first, to secure the draft picks we would need to include. Then it comes down to which valuable piece you want to keep, Clarkson or Randle.
Since I think PG is most likely, our greatest need is going to be at PF and C, in which case I think the Lakers will value Randle and transform him into our center position. We then role with a core of Randle, Kuzma, BI, Pg, and Ball. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | Presti is probably pissed off that Oladipo is doing so well.
And now finally realizes that Russell has been and is the problem. |
Oladipo is a decent case study for comparison when thinking about trading Clarkson "just in case" as some continue to want.
Similar age and level of development. I wonder how Clarkson's stats would look if given the opportunity as Oladipo has been given. Give Clarkson another 12 mpg/ 6 FGA per game and a starter's responsibility. For about $10M less per year too.
Clarkson has developed into a quality player. I prefer they think long and hard before trading him away just in case. I would regret watching him (or Randle) continue developing into impact players on other teams. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | The goals should be signing George for max (30 mill/year), foraging and securing a deal for Deng, then seeing about “other” interested parties (namely James and Cousins).
If James or Cousins want in, a deal is brokered to trade Deng (with draft picks + Nance, if necessary) to a team with space (like Atlanta or Chicago). “New guy” makes only 28 mill (2 mill under Cousins’ max and 7 mill under James’)
If James or Cousins don’t want in, go about your business with George and Deng (unstretched) on your roster. |
I think this is sensible, though I would need to run the numbers to see how much room we would have left to fill out the roster. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Big Game James wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | Deng not playing is a decision based more on philosophy and desire to develop the young players more then his complete inability to contribute. |
I think that is only half of it. I believe the other half lies in waiting Deng out in hopes that he begins pushing for a buyout of his contract. The lack of playing time would make him antsy. Plus, without showcasing what Deng has left in the tank (if anything is left in the tank), teams are left to their own imagination on what Deng's value is. This could work to our advantage since we know what his value is based on game practices and scrimmages.
Our best option might just be leaving Deng to rot on the bench. |
Positioning for a buy-out could be part of the strategy.
Just speculation on my part but I think both sides must be comfortable with him not playing right now. Since last season he has been a non-factor. Yet still at practices (occasionally?) and every once in a while an article of how he has helped one of his younger teammates. Animosity seems low IMO.
My point is that if he remains on the roster he might have a bench role if the roster moves go in a certain direction and a trade, stretch or buy-out can not be accomplished.
Expectations of his impact have to be altered but I could see him having an (overpriced) role with the team next year. |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | The goals should be signing George for max (30 mill/year), foraging and securing a deal for Deng, then seeing about “other” interested parties (namely James and Cousins).
If James or Cousins want in, a deal is brokered to trade Deng (with draft picks + Nance, if necessary) to a team with space (like Atlanta or Chicago). “New guy” makes only 28 mill (2 mill under Cousins’ max and 7 mill under James’)
If James or Cousins don’t want in, go about your business with George and Deng (unstretched) on your roster. |
I think this is sensible, though I would need to run the numbers to see how much room we would have left to fill out the roster. |
* $101 million salary cap
* Randle's salary equal to Clarkson's
2018 - 19
$18,000,000......Luol Deng (1)
$12,500,000......Jordan Clarkson (2)
$12,500,000......Julius Randle (3)
$7,461,960........Lonzo Ball (4)
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram (5)
$1,656,092........Tyler Ennis (6)
$2,272,391........Larry Nance Jr. (7)
$1,689,840........Kyle Kuzma (8)
$1,655,160........Josh Hart (9)
$1,544,951........Ivica Zubac (10)
$1,378,242........Thomas Bryant (11)
$30,300,000.......Paul George (12)
$0......................Cousins
$0......................Lebron
___________________
$96,715,756
Slightly over $4 million left to use plus the Room Exception. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Personally of George, LeBron and Cousins I would figure Cousins is the one we actively needed. A center that can do what he can do would be vital for this team currently but also going forward.
George I think the desperation for diminishes depending upon the play of Ingram and Kuzma.
But that would be a lot clearer if Luke played Ingram at the 2 and Kuzma at the 3. If he did and they both continued on their 27ppg and 18ppg paths for this season it would greatly diminish the priority of George over someone like Cousins.
Luke however is not that bright.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Right, because it is well known that centers lead teams to titles. Happened in 2003.
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | epak wrote: | Presti is probably pissed off that Oladipo is doing so well.
And now finally realizes that Russell has been and is the problem. |
Oladipo is a decent case study for comparison when thinking about trading Clarkson "just in case" as some continue to want.
Similar age and level of development. I wonder how Clarkson's stats would look if given the opportunity as Oladipo has been given. Give Clarkson another 12 mpg/ 6 FGA per game and a starter's responsibility. For about $10M less per year too.
Clarkson has developed into a quality player. I prefer they think long and hard before trading him away just in case. I would regret watching him (or Randle) continue developing into impact players on other teams. |
I think Oladipo's issue was playing with WB his usage was low. So he was out of rhythm. Low 20 usg% the last few years. Jumped to 30 usg% this year. And his 3pt fg% is currently over 40%.
JCs usg% is 28 this year in only 23 effective minutes. I always wonder if players effectiveness stays the same if they get more minutes. Same thing I wonder with Julius. Same thing I used to wonder with Ed Davis. |
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LakersChamps04
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| I dont know how anyone could want Cousin's on this team. Sure he puts up 40 & 20, but his demeanor is just so OFF. I would HATE to have him as a teammate or as a player if I am the coach. The dude cannot for the life of him not whine and he acts like the entire world is out to get him. Dude just seems like a cancer to me |
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fontana3d
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Personally of George, LeBron and Cousins I would figure Cousins is the one we actively needed. A center that can do what he can do would be vital for this team currently but also going forward.
George I think the desperation for diminishes depending upon the play of Ingram and Kuzma.
But that would be a lot clearer if Luke played Ingram at the 2 and Kuzma at the 3. If he did and they both continued on their 27ppg and 18ppg paths for this season it would greatly diminish the priority of George over someone like Cousins.
Luke however is not that bright. |
Ingram can't play the 2 doesn't have foot speed |
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | The goals should be signing George for max (30 mill/year), foraging and securing a deal for Deng, then seeing about “other” interested parties (namely James and Cousins).
If James or Cousins want in, a deal is brokered to trade Deng (with draft picks + Nance, if necessary) to a team with space (like Atlanta or Chicago). “New guy” makes only 28 mill (2 mill under Cousins’ max and 7 mill under James’)
If James or Cousins don’t want in, go about your business with George and Deng (unstretched) on your roster. |
I think this is sensible, though I would need to run the numbers to see how much room we would have left to fill out the roster. |
* $101 million salary cap
* Randle's salary equal to Clarkson's
2018 - 19
$18,000,000......Luol Deng (1)
$12,500,000......Jordan Clarkson (2)
$12,500,000......Julius Randle (3)
$7,461,960........Lonzo Ball (4)
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram (5)
$1,656,092........Tyler Ennis (6)
$2,272,391........Larry Nance Jr. (7)
$1,689,840........Kyle Kuzma (8)
$1,655,160........Josh Hart (9)
$1,544,951........Ivica Zubac (10)
$1,378,242........Thomas Bryant (11)
$30,300,000.......Paul George (12)
$0......................Cousins
$0......................Lebron
___________________
$96,715,756
Slightly over $4 million left to use plus the Room Exception. |
Yep. Now subtract Ennis, Zubac, Deng, and Nance and you have the 28 million I mentioned to offer James (or Cousins):
PG - Ball - Clarkson
SG - George - Hart
C - Lopez - Randle
PF - Kuzma - Wear
SF - James - Ingram |
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