Hornets, Blazers, Nets interested in dealing for Jordan Clarkson?
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject:

LakersChamps04 wrote:
I dont know how anyone could want Cousin's on this team. Sure he puts up 40 & 20, but his demeanor is just so OFF. I would HATE to have him as a teammate or as a player if I am the coach. The dude cannot for the life of him not whine and he acts like the entire world is out to get him. Dude just seems like a cancer to me


I agree with you, but he has talent and once you get past the top 3 or 4 guys, there are pros and cons to everyone. Given the choice, you'd always wish your #1 guy was Lebron, Durant or Curry; but often it's Lillard, Aldridge, George or Whiteside.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:53 am    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
The goals should be signing George for max (30 mill/year), foraging and securing a deal for Deng, then seeing about “other” interested parties (namely James and Cousins).

If James or Cousins want in, a deal is brokered to trade Deng (with draft picks + Nance, if necessary) to a team with space (like Atlanta or Chicago). “New guy” makes only 28 mill (2 mill under Cousins’ max and 7 mill under James’)

If James or Cousins don’t want in, go about your business with George and Deng (unstretched) on your roster.


I think this is sensible, though I would need to run the numbers to see how much room we would have left to fill out the roster.



* $101 million salary cap

* Randle's salary equal to Clarkson's

2018 - 19

$18,000,000......Luol Deng (1)
$12,500,000......Jordan Clarkson (2)
$12,500,000......Julius Randle (3)

$7,461,960........Lonzo Ball (4)
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram (5)
$1,656,092........Tyler Ennis (6)
$2,272,391........Larry Nance Jr. (7)
$1,689,840........Kyle Kuzma (8)
$1,655,160........Josh Hart (9)
$1,544,951........Ivica Zubac (10)
$1,378,242........Thomas Bryant (11)

$30,300,000.......Paul George (12)

$0......................Cousins
$0......................Lebron
___________________
$96,715,756


Slightly over $4 million left to use plus the Room Exception.


Thanks. That's helpful. Randle might cost a little more, but $12.5M is a good placeholder.

So we would have holes at C and SG that need to be addressed. Unless we think that some combination of Zubac and Bryant can cover the paint, we would be stuck playing small ball with Randle or Nance at center. We would need to start both Ball and Clarkson.

So, under JP's scenario, I think we would end up needing to stretch Deng and use the space to fill holes. In general, that roster has way too many PFs, so we would probably need to cut someone anyway.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:58 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Yep. Now subtract Ennis, Zubac, Deng, and Nance and you have the 28 million I mentioned to offer James (or Cousins):

PG - Ball - Clarkson
SG - George - Hart
C - Lopez - Randle
PF - Kuzma - Wear
SF - James - Ingram


How do you keep Lopez? I can buy that George could play SG some of the time, but I'm not so sure that he holds down that position on a regular basis.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Yep. Now subtract Ennis, Zubac, Deng, and Nance and you have the 28 million I mentioned to offer James (or Cousins):

PG - Ball - Clarkson
SG - George - Hart
C - Lopez - Randle
PF - Kuzma - Wear
SF - James - Ingram


How do you keep Lopez? I can buy that George could play SG some of the time, but I'm not so sure that he holds down that position on a regular basis.


I agree, especially going forward....his heavy minutes @ SG are behind him in my opinion.

If you go by Basketball References Play by Play stats, he is only playing 6% of his time this year @ SG. In comparison, if you look at early in his career @ Indy, he was playing 89% @ SG....then his final year in Indy he played 0% @ SG.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:09 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Yep. Now subtract Ennis, Zubac, Deng, and Nance and you have the 28 million I mentioned to offer James (or Cousins):

PG - Ball - Clarkson
SG - George - Hart
C - Lopez - Randle
PF - Kuzma - Wear
SF - James - Ingram


How do you keep Lopez? I can buy that George could play SG some of the time, but I'm not so sure that he holds down that position on a regular basis.


I agree, especially going forward....his heavy minutes @ SG are behind him in my opinion.

If you go by Basketball References Play by Play stats, he is only playing 6% of his time this year @ SG. In comparison, if you look at early in his career @ Indy, he was playing 89% @ SG....then his final year in Indy he played 0% @ SG.


So Roberson is playing "SG?"

PG13 can easily guard the SG position. Very few SGs would give him difficulty. And offensively, he does everything you need at the "SG" spot, including shooting of curls, spot up, handling the rock, running the offense, and so on.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:14 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
So Roberson is playing "SG?"


Yes, clearly Roberson is starting at SG for OKC this season...Roberson is a SG.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:15 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Bard207 wrote:


* $101 million salary cap

* Randle's salary equal to Clarkson's

2018 - 19

$18,000,000......Luol Deng (1)
$12,500,000......Jordan Clarkson (2)
$12,500,000......Julius Randle (3)

$7,461,960........Lonzo Ball (4)
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram (5)
$1,656,092........Tyler Ennis (6)
$2,272,391........Larry Nance Jr. (7)
$1,689,840........Kyle Kuzma (8)
$1,655,160........Josh Hart (9)
$1,544,951........Ivica Zubac (10)
$1,378,242........Thomas Bryant (11)

$30,300,000.......Paul George (12)

$0......................Cousins
$0......................Lebron
___________________
$96,715,756


Slightly over $4 million left to use plus the Room Exception.

Yep. Now subtract Ennis, Zubac, Deng, and Nance and you have the 28 million I mentioned to offer James (or Cousins):

PG - Ball - Clarkson
SG - George - Hart
C - Lopez - Randle
PF - Kuzma - Wear
SF - James - Ingram


$28 million?

I put Paul George at an even $30 million and at $26 million for the second star, it is still slightly over a $101 million salary cap.

2018 - 19

$12,500,000......Jordan Clarkson (1)
$12,500,000......Julius Randle (2)

$7,461,960........Lonzo Ball (3)
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram (4)
$1,689,840........Kyle Kuzma (5)
$1,655,160........Josh Hart (6)
$1,378,242........Thomas Bryant (7)

$30,000,000......Paul George (8)
$26,000,000......Cousins (9)

$831,311...........Min Salary (10)
$831,311...........Min Salary (11)
$831,311...........Min Salary (12)

$0.....................Luol Deng
$0.....................Tyler Ennis
$0.....................Larry Nance Jr.
$0.....................Ivica Zubac
_____________________
$101,436,255
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:15 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
So Roberson is playing "SG?"


Yes, clearly Roberson is starting at SG for OKC this season...Roberson is a SG.


And we wonder why they are struggling on offense?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:17 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
So Roberson is playing "SG?"


Yes, clearly Roberson is starting at SG for OKC this season...Roberson is a SG.


And we wonder why they are struggling on offense?


right, and people that believe that feel Alex Abrines should take Roberson's starting spot....another shooting guard....not a SF. It has been years since George saw real minutes @ SG.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:20 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
So Roberson is playing "SG?"


Yes, clearly Roberson is starting at SG for OKC this season...Roberson is a SG.


And we wonder why they are struggling on offense?


right, and people that believe that feel Alex Abrines should take Roberson's starting spot....another shooting guard....not a SF. It has been years since George saw real minutes @ SG.


What's the major issue with him playing "SG." He has all the tools on offense/defense. It's a silly distinction IMO.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:34 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
So Roberson is playing "SG?"


Yes, clearly Roberson is starting at SG for OKC this season...Roberson is a SG.


And we wonder why they are struggling on offense?


right, and people that believe that feel Alex Abrines should take Roberson's starting spot....another shooting guard....not a SF. It has been years since George saw real minutes @ SG.


What's the major issue with him playing "SG." He has all the tools on offense/defense. It's a silly distinction IMO.


not sure I know how to answer, or even have the ability to provide an accurate answer. In my opinion, he is not the same level of moderate to hyper athlete he was when he entered the league....his style of play has slowed in recent years. I would think the leg injury has something to do with that....as well as age. If you look at his shot selection, his shots at the rim and in the paint have diminished each year since, as he has became more of a spot up shooter. I assume this has been a change of necessity to some degree. The real evidence is his last three coaches have not played him @ the SG position. I personally do not recall a player playing almost solely at the SF and PF position for the last 3-4 years....then at the age of 28 converting back to a SG.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Right, because it is well known that centers lead teams to titles. Happened in 2003.


whats your point?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:38 am    Post subject:

GOODRICH25 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Right, because it is well known that centers lead teams to titles. Happened in 2003.


whats your point?


my guess he is saying in the modern NBA, teams no longer build championship rosters around the Center position. It is much more of a perimeter game, and teams that feature their Center as their key offensive player have not won at the highest levels in recent decades.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:42 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
So Roberson is playing "SG?"


Yes, clearly Roberson is starting at SG for OKC this season...Roberson is a SG.


And we wonder why they are struggling on offense?


right, and people that believe that feel Alex Abrines should take Roberson's starting spot....another shooting guard....not a SF. It has been years since George saw real minutes @ SG.


What's the major issue with him playing "SG." He has all the tools on offense/defense. It's a silly distinction IMO.


not sure I know how to answer, or even have the ability to provide an accurate answer. In my opinion, he is not the same level of moderate to hyper athlete he was when he entered the league....his style of play has slowed in recent years. I would think the leg injury has something to do with that....as well as age. If you look at his shot selection, his shots at the rim and in the paint have diminished each year since, as he has became more of a spot up shooter. I assume this has been a change of necessity to some degree. The real evidence is his last three coaches have not played him @ the SG position. I personally do not recall a player playing almost solely at the SF and PF position for the last 3-4 years....then at the age of 28 converting back to a SG.


If we got him via trade/FA, you think the Lakers would play him at "SF" and move BI to "SG?" I just think it doesn't really matter. They'd go with Lonzo/PG13/BI as their perimeter trio.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
GOODRICH25 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Right, because it is well known that centers lead teams to titles. Happened in 2003.


whats your point?


my guess he is saying in the modern NBA, teams no longer build championship rosters around the Center position. It is much more of a perimeter game, and teams that feature their Center as their key offensive player have not won at the highest levels in recent decades.


well, give me a prime Duncan or Shaq and id build a team around them. the problem isnt the center position per se, but lack of top3-5 talent on it
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:45 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
So Roberson is playing "SG?"


Yes, clearly Roberson is starting at SG for OKC this season...Roberson is a SG.


And we wonder why they are struggling on offense?


right, and people that believe that feel Alex Abrines should take Roberson's starting spot....another shooting guard....not a SF. It has been years since George saw real minutes @ SG.


What's the major issue with him playing "SG." He has all the tools on offense/defense. It's a silly distinction IMO.


not sure I know how to answer, or even have the ability to provide an accurate answer. In my opinion, he is not the same level of moderate to hyper athlete he was when he entered the league....his style of play has slowed in recent years. I would think the leg injury has something to do with that....as well as age. If you look at his shot selection, his shots at the rim and in the paint have diminished each year since, as he has became more of a spot up shooter. I assume this has been a change of necessity to some degree. The real evidence is his last three coaches have not played him @ the SG position. I personally do not recall a player playing almost solely at the SF and PF position for the last 3-4 years....then at the age of 28 converting back to a SG.


If we got him via trade/FA, you think the Lakers would play him at "SF" and move BI to "SG?" I just think it doesn't really matter. They'd go with Lonzo/PG13/BI as their perimeter trio.


i dont see an issue either. what is it that you want from a SG that George cant do at a high level/as good as or better than most SGs in the league? i dont see any
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject:

GOODRICH25 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
So Roberson is playing "SG?"


Yes, clearly Roberson is starting at SG for OKC this season...Roberson is a SG.


And we wonder why they are struggling on offense?


right, and people that believe that feel Alex Abrines should take Roberson's starting spot....another shooting guard....not a SF. It has been years since George saw real minutes @ SG.


What's the major issue with him playing "SG." He has all the tools on offense/defense. It's a silly distinction IMO.


not sure I know how to answer, or even have the ability to provide an accurate answer. In my opinion, he is not the same level of moderate to hyper athlete he was when he entered the league....his style of play has slowed in recent years. I would think the leg injury has something to do with that....as well as age. If you look at his shot selection, his shots at the rim and in the paint have diminished each year since, as he has became more of a spot up shooter. I assume this has been a change of necessity to some degree. The real evidence is his last three coaches have not played him @ the SG position. I personally do not recall a player playing almost solely at the SF and PF position for the last 3-4 years....then at the age of 28 converting back to a SG.


If we got him via trade/FA, you think the Lakers would play him at "SF" and move BI to "SG?" I just think it doesn't really matter. They'd go with Lonzo/PG13/BI as their perimeter trio.


i dont see an issue either. what is it that you want from a SG that George cant do at a high level/as good as or better than most SGs in the league? i dont see any


You would have 3 guys who could switch to multiple positions, and theoretically help on the boards. Yes, some super speedy guys may present a problem on defense, but that's why you would hope to stock your bench with answers to that.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:54 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
GOODRICH25 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
So Roberson is playing "SG?"


Yes, clearly Roberson is starting at SG for OKC this season...Roberson is a SG.


And we wonder why they are struggling on offense?


right, and people that believe that feel Alex Abrines should take Roberson's starting spot....another shooting guard....not a SF. It has been years since George saw real minutes @ SG.


What's the major issue with him playing "SG." He has all the tools on offense/defense. It's a silly distinction IMO.


not sure I know how to answer, or even have the ability to provide an accurate answer. In my opinion, he is not the same level of moderate to hyper athlete he was when he entered the league....his style of play has slowed in recent years. I would think the leg injury has something to do with that....as well as age. If you look at his shot selection, his shots at the rim and in the paint have diminished each year since, as he has became more of a spot up shooter. I assume this has been a change of necessity to some degree. The real evidence is his last three coaches have not played him @ the SG position. I personally do not recall a player playing almost solely at the SF and PF position for the last 3-4 years....then at the age of 28 converting back to a SG.


If we got him via trade/FA, you think the Lakers would play him at "SF" and move BI to "SG?" I just think it doesn't really matter. They'd go with Lonzo/PG13/BI as their perimeter trio.


i dont see an issue either. what is it that you want from a SG that George cant do at a high level/as good as or better than most SGs in the league? i dont see any


You would have 3 guys who could switch to multiple positions, and theoretically help on the boards. Yes, some super speedy guys may present a problem on defense, but that's why you would hope to stock your bench with answers to that.


i wouldnt really concern myself with those super speedy guys tbh. we are building a team to compete with the Warriors and Rockets sometime down the stretch, so i want guys that can switch on Curry, KD or Harden and hold their ground. but i agree that we would need someone we can put on such guys so we should just draft a young combo guard with quick feet whos a good defender and we good
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:56 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
GOODRICH25 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Right, because it is well known that centers lead teams to titles. Happened in 2003.


whats your point?


my guess he is saying in the modern NBA, teams no longer build championship rosters around the Center position. It is much more of a perimeter game, and teams that feature their Center as their key offensive player have not won at the highest levels in recent decades.


Right. Center has become a defensive position. This does not mean that it is unimportant, but we've seen a cultural shift. Talented scorers do not want to play in the low post. When I was a kid, guys like Durant would immediately have been pigeonholed as centers and would have been told to gain some weight. Ralph Sampson rarely gets credit for it, but he was the first star who had the guts to say, "No, I want to do more than that."
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:05 pm    Post subject:

1) I think Paul George can play SG just fine

2) I think Embiid could be the center you build a championship around if he can stay healthy. The main reason no one builds around centers is because none of them are good enough. Also, The few that have the talent to be good enough (Cousins, Davis, Towns, Porzingis) are all trying to play SG instead doing center stuff. You most certainly can compete for a championship with a great center if that center does the dirty work needed to get a team over the top.

3) I understand the league has gone full chuck and duck (small ball) but it doesn't mean big men cant carry a team anymore. BTW, wasn't Howard the last center to lead a team to the finals? He wasn't even that good...

4) Ok I'm out until game time. Go Lakers!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:18 pm    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Bard207 wrote:


* $101 million salary cap

* Randle's salary equal to Clarkson's

2018 - 19

$18,000,000......Luol Deng (1)
$12,500,000......Jordan Clarkson (2)
$12,500,000......Julius Randle (3)

$7,461,960........Lonzo Ball (4)
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram (5)
$1,656,092........Tyler Ennis (6)
$2,272,391........Larry Nance Jr. (7)
$1,689,840........Kyle Kuzma (8)
$1,655,160........Josh Hart (9)
$1,544,951........Ivica Zubac (10)
$1,378,242........Thomas Bryant (11)

$30,300,000.......Paul George (12)

$0......................Cousins
$0......................Lebron
___________________
$96,715,756


Slightly over $4 million left to use plus the Room Exception.

Yep. Now subtract Ennis, Zubac, Deng, and Nance and you have the 28 million I mentioned to offer James (or Cousins):

PG - Ball - Clarkson
SG - George - Hart
C - Lopez - Randle
PF - Kuzma - Wear
SF - James - Ingram


$28 million?

I put Paul George at an even $30 million and at $26 million for the second star, it is still slightly over a $101 million salary cap.

2018 - 19

$12,500,000......Jordan Clarkson (1)
$12,500,000......Julius Randle (2)

$7,461,960........Lonzo Ball (3)
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram (4)
$1,689,840........Kyle Kuzma (5)
$1,655,160........Josh Hart (6)
$1,378,242........Thomas Bryant (7)

$30,000,000......Paul George (8)
$26,000,000......Cousins (9)

$831,311...........Min Salary (10)
$831,311...........Min Salary (11)
$831,311...........Min Salary (12)

$0.....................Luol Deng
$0.....................Tyler Ennis
$0.....................Larry Nance Jr.
$0.....................Ivica Zubac
_____________________
$101,436,255

Indeed.

And this is exactly how I’d do it.

The second max guy gets what’s left (26 mill/year).

If he doesn’t want it, the Lakers take Paul George (and Luol Deng) and go home:

PG - Ball - Clarkson
SG - George - Caruso
C - Nance - Randle
PF - Kuzma - Deng
SF - Ingram - Hart
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:40 pm    Post subject:

Hate to lose Clarkson, but do u thing George Hill is a good replacement. Looks like Kings is tanking, could you add Deng, Clarkson and pick and get back Hill plus expiring (Vince or Randolph) will get us the 2 cap space. Plus I feel Hill will be easier to move if need be.

Second units still intact with

Hill, Hart, Vince, Kuz, Randle

Hill, Hart, Kuz, Randolph, Randle
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:47 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
1) I think Paul George can play SG just fine

2) I think Embiid could be the center you build a championship around if he can stay healthy. The main reason no one builds around centers is because none of them are good enough. Also, The few that have the talent to be good enough (Cousins, Davis, Towns, Porzingis) are all trying to play SG instead doing center stuff. You most certainly can compete for a championship with a great center if that center does the dirty work needed to get a team over the top.

3) I understand the league has gone full chuck and duck (small ball) but it doesn't mean big men cant carry a team anymore. BTW, wasn't Howard the last center to lead a team to the finals? He wasn't even that good...

4) Ok I'm out until game time. Go Lakers!


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GOODRICH25
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Bard207 wrote:


* $101 million salary cap

* Randle's salary equal to Clarkson's

2018 - 19

$18,000,000......Luol Deng (1)
$12,500,000......Jordan Clarkson (2)
$12,500,000......Julius Randle (3)

$7,461,960........Lonzo Ball (4)
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram (5)
$1,656,092........Tyler Ennis (6)
$2,272,391........Larry Nance Jr. (7)
$1,689,840........Kyle Kuzma (8)
$1,655,160........Josh Hart (9)
$1,544,951........Ivica Zubac (10)
$1,378,242........Thomas Bryant (11)

$30,300,000.......Paul George (12)

$0......................Cousins
$0......................Lebron
___________________
$96,715,756


Slightly over $4 million left to use plus the Room Exception.

Yep. Now subtract Ennis, Zubac, Deng, and Nance and you have the 28 million I mentioned to offer James (or Cousins):

PG - Ball - Clarkson
SG - George - Hart
C - Lopez - Randle
PF - Kuzma - Wear
SF - James - Ingram


$28 million?

I put Paul George at an even $30 million and at $26 million for the second star, it is still slightly over a $101 million salary cap.

2018 - 19

$12,500,000......Jordan Clarkson (1)
$12,500,000......Julius Randle (2)

$7,461,960........Lonzo Ball (3)
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram (4)
$1,689,840........Kyle Kuzma (5)
$1,655,160........Josh Hart (6)
$1,378,242........Thomas Bryant (7)

$30,000,000......Paul George (8)
$26,000,000......Cousins (9)

$831,311...........Min Salary (10)
$831,311...........Min Salary (11)
$831,311...........Min Salary (12)

$0.....................Luol Deng
$0.....................Tyler Ennis
$0.....................Larry Nance Jr.
$0.....................Ivica Zubac
_____________________
$101,436,255


cant we add those minimum salaries + a room exception player after we already used up the cap space?
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GOODRICH25
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject:

also, is the salary cap at exactly 101M or slightly more/less?
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