Hornets, Blazers, Nets interested in dealing for Jordan Clarkson?
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:03 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Stretching him means losing Randle.


Caveat here: We have no guarantee that we will keep Randle. A Deng trade just means that we don't have to renounce him and that we get a chance to match his offer sheet. The salary cap rules and consequences relating to matching an offer sheet are complicated, and I will leave that topic to someone like Larry Coon. Suffice it to say that another team could cause us all sorts of headaches by offering Randle a large offer sheet.

If it doesnít fit you must acquit.

If the offer is too large to fit their cap plans, Randle walks for nothing.


Exactly. This is relevant when we consider future scenarios in which we keep Randle. I think some people see the $12M cap hold and assume that this is what it would cost to keep him. Heck, someone could offer him a max contract. I'm not predicting that, but teams do surprising things in the offseason.


It could happen...but I think $12-$13 Million annually is probably the ceiling of what he could expect next summer....I will not be shocked if he gets no offers more than the MLE.

Not nearly as emphatically, but thatís where I see Randle as well (still worried about Dallas though).

Simply tell Randle and all teams that they will match any offer.

I think from there, I agree with you. With the exception of Dallas, I canít think of a team willing to go significantly north of 15 mill per.

Randle, unfortunately, has Cuban written all over him, and heís from the Dallas area.

How high of an offer will Cuban make? Thatís the real question for me.

Iím hoping for Randle resigned for four years at 50 million, Ďcuz Iím a Laker fan, but Iím prepared to give him four years 60 million if need be and would consider as high as 17 mill a year if he finishes up the rest of the year really proving his defensive consistency.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:07 am    Post subject:

Mavs took Barnes when he was a cap casualty on the Warriors. Is Jules going to be the same if the Lakers get their 2 max?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:13 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Mavs took Barnes when he was a cap casualty on the Warriors. Is Jules going to be the same if the Lakers get their 2 max?


Isn't mathematically the answer is yes?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:14 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Mavs took Barnes when he was a cap casualty on the Warriors. Is Jules going to be the same if the Lakers get their 2 max?


Isn't mathematically the answer is yes?


My point was that the Mavs have picked up the sloppy leftovers from teams that are star building. If we get our 2 max, maybe it can happen too.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:16 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Mavs took Barnes when he was a cap casualty on the Warriors. Is Jules going to be the same if the Lakers get their 2 max?

Calling it now that the Mavs offer Randle the same deal that Nerlens Noel turned down ó four years 70 mill.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject:

Trade Clarkson for a late 1st.

Trade Deng and Zubac plus 1-2 firsts.

Sign Boogie and Paul George.

Go over the cap to extend Randle beyond his 12m cap hold.

Use room exception and vet mins on shooters (Bellinelli, Ilyasova).
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject:

iimarshon wrote:


Use room exception and vet mins on shooters (Bellinelli, Ilyasova).



It will be interesting to see what the free agent market holds for guys like Bellinelli, Ilyasova. They each made about $6 million this year. They might not get that in a tight market, but it's hard to imagine either guy being available for the minimum. The room exception may be enough to get one of them, but it's hard to predict what kind of offers bigs and shooters will get, especially when they are good enough to be rotation players on good teams.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:16 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Mavs took Barnes when he was a cap casualty on the Warriors. Is Jules going to be the same if the Lakers get their 2 max?

Calling it now that the Mavs offer Randle the same deal that Nerlens Noel turned down ó four years 70 mill.


That's a reasonable prediction. For present purposes, I'll just say that I think he'll get offered more than his cap hold.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
^Just in time for Anthony Davis hitting free agency ...


Only if we trade 2-3 first round picks to dump Deng there are none to trade for AD.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:30 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
iimarshon wrote:


Use room exception and vet mins on shooters (Bellinelli, Ilyasova).



It will be interesting to see what the free agent market holds for guys like Bellinelli, Ilyasova. They each made about $6 million this year. They might not get that in a tight market, but it's hard to imagine either guy being available for the minimum. The room exception may be enough to get one of them, but it's hard to predict what kind of offers bigs and shooters will get, especially when they are good enough to be rotation players on good teams.


The market will be better for Bellinelli than Ilyasova.

Agree with you on the above, though.

I think Bellinelli could be had for the room exception.

Getting Ilyasova for the minimum probably only happens if we get 2 stars and our team is looking good and interesting -- but Ilyasova probably only comes if we lose one of Nance or Randle.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject:

iimarshon wrote:
activeverb wrote:
iimarshon wrote:


Use room exception and vet mins on shooters (Bellinelli, Ilyasova).



It will be interesting to see what the free agent market holds for guys like Bellinelli, Ilyasova. They each made about $6 million this year. They might not get that in a tight market, but it's hard to imagine either guy being available for the minimum. The room exception may be enough to get one of them, but it's hard to predict what kind of offers bigs and shooters will get, especially when they are good enough to be rotation players on good teams.


The market will be better for Bellinelli than Ilyasova.

Agree with you on the above, though.

I think Bellinelli could be had for the room exception.

Getting Ilyasova for the minimum probably only happens if we get 2 stars and our team is looking good and interesting -- but Ilyasova probably only comes if we lose one of Nance or Randle.



Maybe. The room is going to be $4.5 million and it can only be used for two years. That's probably the minimum deal Bellinelli would want. He might be available for that, but I think we'd in competition with other contending teams that would offer the same deal to him.

I don't see Ilyasova signing for the minimum. He's a 30-year-old center with point range who is capable of starting for a lot of teams. I'd suspect some team would throw their room exception at him

So it could happen. It's just a pretty optimistic scernario.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
I think our odds of signing LeBron are infinitesimal at best. Paul George I do think we have a good shot at, and I'm wondering if it might be best to just sign him + acquire a PG to go alongside Lonzo + keep Julius + stretch Deng + trade JC for some shooters.

Lonzo
Collison
PG
Kooz
Randle

Hart
Bellineli
BI
Babbit
Zubat

Maybe even have money to spare after that too, IDK.

Do you guys think a roster like that - keeping in mind we are retaining our draft picks - is preferable to PG + Cousins?


As others have said, Collison isn't a free agent. But let's say we get him for the heck of it. I'd say it's a OK roster. I wouldn't consider it a for-sure playoff team in the west.

A lot depends on how Ball, Ingram and Kuz develop. Overall, after all the hoopla of the pending off season, if that's the team we end up with it would be anti-climatic.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Mavs took Barnes when he was a cap casualty on the Warriors. Is Jules going to be the same if the Lakers get their 2 max?

Calling it now that the Mavs offer Randle the same deal that Nerlens Noel turned down ó four years 70 mill.


That's a reasonable prediction. For present purposes, I'll just say that I think he'll get offered more than his cap hold.


And if he signs an offer for more than his cap hold, then the offer is what counts against our cap until we either match or renounce him, right?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:56 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
PHILosophize wrote:
wouldn't stretching him be a lot better than giving up multiple 1st rounders?

Stretching him means losing Randle.

So, just to recap: Kuzma wonít be traded because theyíd rather have him than Randle. If the draft picks donít work in trading Deng, then you stretch Deng and lose Randle.

Or, Phil, you can happily keep your draft picks, stretch Deng, and just let Randle walk in favor of your draft picks.

Iíd rather have Randle than the draft picks personally, so Iíd rather trade picks and Nance with Deng if possible.

Hope that makes sense.

Please stop with the trade Kuzma foolery and the Magic is a retarded buffoon innuendo. Trust me, the only people talking of trading Kuzma with Deng are you spit wads.

You donít have to justify your non-adherence to signing two max guys by painting Magic as some doofus who will trade his life away to make it happen at any at all cost.

If teams play hardball with the Lakers in trading for Deng, the casualty will be Randle NOT KUZMA.


Thank you for setting these posters straight. Magic aint stupid and theyíre not trading Kuzma. Just an FYI...lebronz is not coming here. I do see us signing boogie. Why do we need pg if we have bi and Kuzma?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:13 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Mavs took Barnes when he was a cap casualty on the Warriors. Is Jules going to be the same if the Lakers get their 2 max?

Calling it now that the Mavs offer Randle the same deal that Nerlens Noel turned down ó four years 70 mill.


That's a reasonable prediction. For present purposes, I'll just say that I think he'll get offered more than his cap hold.


And if he signs an offer for more than his cap hold, then the offer is what counts against our cap until we either match or renounce him, right?

Yes, which is why Randleís could do the Lakers favor by letting them know about the offer before he actually signs it.

If Randle tells the Lakers he has a deal for 17 mill a year that he hasnít quite signed yet, they can tell him that they wonít match because itís too high or they could tell him they will match, but to, as a favor, not sign the offer sheet with Dallas so the caphold remains at 12 mill, while they acquire other pieces, as opposed to the 17 mill caphold thatíd exist if Randle signs an offer sheet early, before the Lakers can prepare.

It could be seen as a huge risk by Randle though, because RANdle would essentially be banking on a promise from the LAKers to pay the same amount as his original offer from Dallas when the LAKers would not be bounded to do that ó they could renege. Thatíd be bad business and probably very unlikely, but still risky for Randle when youíre talking about 70 million dollars.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:15 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Mavs took Barnes when he was a cap casualty on the Warriors. Is Jules going to be the same if the Lakers get their 2 max?

Calling it now that the Mavs offer Randle the same deal that Nerlens Noel turned down ó four years 70 mill.


That's a reasonable prediction. For present purposes, I'll just say that I think he'll get offered more than his cap hold.


And if he signs an offer for more than his cap hold, then the offer is what counts against our cap until we either match or renounce him, right?

Yes, which is why Randleís could do the Lakers favor by letting them know about the offer before he actually signs it.

If Randle tells the Lakers he has a deal for 17 mill a year that he hasnít quite signed yet, they can tell him that they wonít match because itís too high or they could tell him they will match, but to, as a favor, not sign the offer sheet with Dallas so the caphold remains at 12 mill, while they acquire other pieces, as opposed to the 17 mill caphold thatíd exist if Randle signs an offer sheet early, before the Lakers can prepare.

It could be seen as a huge risk by Randle though, because RANdle would essentially be banking on a promise from the LAKers to pay the same amount as his original offer from Dallas when the LAKers would not be bounded to do that ó they could renege. Thatíd be bad business and probably very unlikely, but still risky for Randle when youíre talking about 70 million dollars.


is that legal
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:23 pm    Post subject:

captain jack wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
PHILosophize wrote:
wouldn't stretching him be a lot better than giving up multiple 1st rounders?

Stretching him means losing Randle.

So, just to recap: Kuzma wonít be traded because theyíd rather have him than Randle. If the draft picks donít work in trading Deng, then you stretch Deng and lose Randle.

Or, Phil, you can happily keep your draft picks, stretch Deng, and just let Randle walk in favor of your draft picks.

Iíd rather have Randle than the draft picks personally, so Iíd rather trade picks and Nance with Deng if possible.

Hope that makes sense.

Please stop with the trade Kuzma foolery and the Magic is a retarded buffoon innuendo. Trust me, the only people talking of trading Kuzma with Deng are you spit wads.

You donít have to justify your non-adherence to signing two max guys by painting Magic as some doofus who will trade his life away to make it happen at any at all cost.

If teams play hardball with the Lakers in trading for Deng, the casualty will be Randle NOT KUZMA.


Thank you for setting these posters straight. Magic aint stupid and theyíre not trading Kuzma. Just an FYI...lebronz is not coming here. I do see us signing boogie. Why do we need pg if we have bi and Kuzma?

Because George improves the defense (he can guard 2-4), which means you can pencil him in at Popeís current SG spot, and the team is demonstrably better on offense with him as well.

George is a no-brainer, even if heís forced to play ďslightlyĒ out of position (but not really) at SG.

Is there a SG that you think would give George trouble?


Last edited by Joe Pesci on Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Mavs took Barnes when he was a cap casualty on the Warriors. Is Jules going to be the same if the Lakers get their 2 max?

Calling it now that the Mavs offer Randle the same deal that Nerlens Noel turned down ó four years 70 mill.


That's a reasonable prediction. For present purposes, I'll just say that I think he'll get offered more than his cap hold.


And if he signs an offer for more than his cap hold, then the offer is what counts against our cap until we either match or renounce him, right?


Yes. Technically, we wouldn't be renouncing him at that point, but that's a distinction without a meaningful difference. As I think you are anticipating, there could be some gamesmanship by other teams here. They could start the two-day clock while we are still waiting on a decision from the free agents.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:46 pm    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Mavs took Barnes when he was a cap casualty on the Warriors. Is Jules going to be the same if the Lakers get their 2 max?

Calling it now that the Mavs offer Randle the same deal that Nerlens Noel turned down ó four years 70 mill.


That's a reasonable prediction. For present purposes, I'll just say that I think he'll get offered more than his cap hold.


And if he signs an offer for more than his cap hold, then the offer is what counts against our cap until we either match or renounce him, right?

Yes, which is why Randleís could do the Lakers favor by letting them know about the offer before he actually signs it.

If Randle tells the Lakers he has a deal for 17 mill a year that he hasnít quite signed yet, they can tell him that they wonít match because itís too high or they could tell him they will match, but to, as a favor, not sign the offer sheet with Dallas so the caphold remains at 12 mill, while they acquire other pieces, as opposed to the 17 mill caphold thatíd exist if Randle signs an offer sheet early, before the Lakers can prepare.

It could be seen as a huge risk by Randle though, because RANdle would essentially be banking on a promise from the LAKers to pay the same amount as his original offer from Dallas when the LAKers would not be bounded to do that ó they could renege. Thatíd be bad business and probably very unlikely, but still risky for Randle when youíre talking about 70 million dollars.


is that legal

Probably not, but Iím a believer in ďgray-areaĒ when it comes to things being legal or illegal.

Has there ever been a team with uber-capspace to spend on free agents in a summer while simultaneously having to retain a restricted free agent that same summer? I donít know.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:16 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Mavs took Barnes when he was a cap casualty on the Warriors. Is Jules going to be the same if the Lakers get their 2 max?

Calling it now that the Mavs offer Randle the same deal that Nerlens Noel turned down ó four years 70 mill.


That's a reasonable prediction. For present purposes, I'll just say that I think he'll get offered more than his cap hold.


And if he signs an offer for more than his cap hold, then the offer is what counts against our cap until we either match or renounce him, right?


Yes. Technically, we wouldn't be renouncing him at that point, but that's a distinction without a meaningful difference. As I think you are anticipating, there could be some gamesmanship by other teams here. They could start the two-day clock while we are still waiting on a decision from the free agents.


Now teams can negotiate with RFAs during the moratorium so they can provide an offer sheet in the first minute of free agency. Meanwhile teams canít negotiate with UFAs until the moratorium is over.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:10 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Mavs took Barnes when he was a cap casualty on the Warriors. Is Jules going to be the same if the Lakers get their 2 max?

Calling it now that the Mavs offer Randle the same deal that Nerlens Noel turned down ó four years 70 mill.


That's a reasonable prediction. For present purposes, I'll just say that I think he'll get offered more than his cap hold.


And if he signs an offer for more than his cap hold, then the offer is what counts against our cap until we either match or renounce him, right?

Yes, which is why Randleís could do the Lakers favor by letting them know about the offer before he actually signs it.

If Randle tells the Lakers he has a deal for 17 mill a year that he hasnít quite signed yet, they can tell him that they wonít match because itís too high or they could tell him they will match, but to, as a favor, not sign the offer sheet with Dallas so the caphold remains at 12 mill, while they acquire other pieces, as opposed to the 17 mill caphold thatíd exist if Randle signs an offer sheet early, before the Lakers can prepare.

It could be seen as a huge risk by Randle though, because RANdle would essentially be banking on a promise from the LAKers to pay the same amount as his original offer from Dallas when the LAKers would not be bounded to do that ó they could renege. Thatíd be bad business and probably very unlikely, but still risky for Randle when youíre talking about 70 million dollars.



The Lakers have jerked Randle around and I don't see him bending over backwards to do them a favor. Heck, for all we know he'd be just as happy going to a new team. But I don't see him waiting around for the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:11 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
The Lakers have jerked Randle around and I don't see him bending over backwards to do them a favor. Heck, for all we know he'd be just as happy going to a new team. But I don't see him waiting around for the Lakers.


agree....highly doubt he has positive feelings about the organization.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject:

The seasons not over for Randle. He may end up consistently getting over 32 minutes a game by the end of the season.

Maybe those extra minutes and telling him they want him and will match any offer will be enough to sway him?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
The seasons not over for Randle. He may end up consistently getting over 32 minutes a game by the end of the season.

Maybe those extra minutes and telling him they want him and will match any offer will be enough to sway him?



Right now the Lakers situation is so fluid -- they don't know what free agents they'll be able to get, and who they might have to let go to create the space. Randle knows he's not #1 in their plans, and he may not end up in their plans at all, so it's hard to imagine his focus won't be totally on what's best for him.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:40 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
The seasons not over for Randle. He may end up consistently getting over 32 minutes a game by the end of the season.

Maybe those extra minutes and telling him they want him and will match any offer will be enough to sway him?



Right now the Lakers situation is so fluid -- they don't know what free agents they'll be able to get, and who they might have to let go to create the space. Randle knows he's not #1 in their plans, and he may not end up in their plans at all, so it's hard to imagine his focus won't be totally on what's best for him.

Yep, and staying in L.A., getting paid (the same he would have elsewhere), competing for rings, playing with James may all be whatís ďbest for himĒ.

No one is asking him to actually take a paycut. Only allowing the Lakers the opportunity to give Randle the opportunity to play with LeBron James. Hell, tell James to call him personally and ask him to bring the offer back to Magic before signing it.

For Randle, for him not to do that would mean he simply canít trust the Lakers at their word, and thatíd be unfortunate.

I believe that if Randle had an offer from Dallas for 15 mill/yr, told Magic before signing it, then Magic agrees to match it if Randle waits til they finish shopping, Iíd believe Magic.

Hereís hoping the glass is half full.
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