Hornets, Blazers, Nets interested in dealing for Jordan Clarkson?
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KingKobe20
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:50 pm    Post subject:

2003 Jason Kidd for JC

Kemba Walker or Larry GrandMama Johnson for JC

Damian Lillard or Clyde Drexler for JC

Anything less is laughable

#KeepJC
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LakerMindLA
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:10 am    Post subject:

There is no way Randle is getting $15m next year.

He will be lucky to get north of $10m next year.

There are very few teams that have cap space, will be spending $$ and have a need for Randle.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:37 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
How would this work from Dallas' point of view?

1) Dallas tells Randle they will offer him $15 mil a year.
2) Randle tells Magic about the impending offer from Dallas
3) Magic tells Randle not to sign that deal yet, sign it later and the Lakers promise to match
4) Randle tells Dallas to wait until the Lakers are done shopping then offer him that $15 mil deal.

5) Dallas agrees. They save their cap room indefinitely waiting for Randle.
6) Time passes, Lakers are done shopping. They tell Randle to go sign that Dallas deal
7) Randle tells Dallas to now offer him $15 mil. Dallas obliges.
8) Lakers match

What does Dallas get out of this?

It’s here where you go off the path ...

3) Magic tells Randle that he’d match, so DON’T SIGN OFFER at all. He’ll match that deal after James is signed. Scouts honor.
4) Randle tells Dallas he’s staying in L.A.
5) Magic signs (or doesn’t sign) two max free agents.
6) Magic now goes over the cap to sign Randle to the original “offer” he got from Dallas.

PG - Ball - (James) - Caruso
SG - George - Hart - Thomas
C - Nance - Randle - Bryant
PF - Kuzma - Wear
SF - James - Ingram
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:48 am    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
There is no way Randle is getting $15m next year.

He will be lucky to get north of $10m next year.

There are very few teams that have cap space, will be spending $$ and have a need for Randle.

Yeah, Dallas is the only real threat. They have space, need, and hometown love to offer, so we’ll see.

If Dallas does make an offer, the offer will have to be at least a million or two over the 12.5 million caphold, in order to put any pressure on the Lakers to not match.

14-17 million is about the price point of any offer sheet.

I hope you’re right though. I hope they snag Randle for ten mill, as you suggest, and if they do sign him for ten mill, it more than likely won’t be them matching an offer sheet. It’ll be a number that him and the Lakers come up with, independent of other teams.
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LakerMindLA
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:01 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
There is no way Randle is getting $15m next year.

He will be lucky to get north of $10m next year.

There are very few teams that have cap space, will be spending $$ and have a need for Randle.

Yeah, Dallas is the only real threat. They have space, need, and hometown love to offer, so we’ll see.

If Dallas does make an offer, the offer will have to be at least a million or two over the 12.5 million caphold, in order to put any pressure on the Lakers to not match.

14-17 million is about the price point of any offer sheet.

I hope you’re right though. I hope they snag Randle for ten mill, as you suggest, and if they do sign him for ten mill, it more than likely won’t be them matching an offer sheet. It’ll be a number that him and the Lakers come up with, independent of other teams.


I don't think Dallas needs to make an offer over the cap-hold. They just need to make an offer in the $8-10 range that forces the Lakers to make a quick decision on keeping Randle or trying for 2 stars. My guess is Randle may try to hold out for more, but he can also land himself in a situation where he is stuck accepting a the qualifying offer at way less than than his cap-hold.

Either way, I think we are completely inflating Randle's value in the market. A rebuilding team isn't going to try to build around him or see him as more than a very good role player and those teams will likely focus their attention on higher upside players such as Jabari Parker or Lavine. A team that may see more value in Randle won't have the cap-space to offer him much.
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:28 am    Post subject:

Teams don’t ususally make offers to restricted free agents because they know it will be matched, so why bother.

Same goes here.

If the Mavs and Randle agree to a ten million dollar offer sheet, it’ll be matched end of story.

Like I said, any offer made under the caphold will be a waste of time for the other team — the Lakers’ll match it quickly.

Again, I hope you’re right about the numbers. I actually feel the same way.

I have him accepting a 4 year, 50 million dollar deal from the Lakers, basically the same deal Clarkson got, which’d be a steal.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:43 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Now teams can negotiate with RFAs during the moratorium so they can provide an offer sheet in the first minute of free agency. Meanwhile teams can’t negotiate with UFAs until the moratorium is over.


Right on the first sentence, but wrong on the second sentence. Teams can negotiate with everyone on July 1, but they can't sign anyone until noon on July 6.

The risk comes from the fact that the big name free agents may take their time while different teams court them. If the offer sheet is signed during the moratorium, it can take effect on July 6, which means we would need to match by July 8.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:06 am    Post subject:

Thing is, we have no reason to get rid of JC.

Cap space isn't needed unless two max guys commit. Till that happens, there's no rush whatsoever and there should be no rush whatsoever.

And anyone you get in a trade for JC is going to be a lesser player.

Know why? Because good players cost money.


if you could find me a guard that comes off the bench for less money than JC and is as productive that isn't on a rookie contract I'd like to see it.

The only one is Lou Williams, and that was a contract WE gave him, and subsequently have gotten rid of now.
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:41 am    Post subject:

Clarkson, whether you like it or not, MJ, is the sacrificial lamb.

He (and Deng) must be surrendered for anything to happen.

You can wait, but you’d later need the first round pick that you could “probably” acquire if you dumped him now to use in a potential Deng trade.

If you wait til the summer, you’re selling Clarkson for pennies, getting nothing of value to rid yourself of the biggest weight around your neck — the Deng contract.

So yeah, everything could blow up in their faces. You are exactly right about that. But I’d gladly risk losing Clarkson for a chance to have a seat at the table with Mr. James and George. If no one comes, I’d consider it successful that all I had to give up was Clarkson (and Russell) for a chance at greatness.

You trade Clarkson now to use the asset that he brings in a package to trade Deng this summer.

You keep Clarkson, you miss out on an asset, possibly missing out on the ability to trade Deng, which leads to having to stretch Deng, which leads to losing Randle because Deng’s stretched caphold is too great to keep Randle too ... all of this just because you didn’t strike on a Clarkson deal at the proper time ... right now.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:45 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Clarkson, whether you like it or not, MJ, is the sacrificial lamb.



For absolutely no one that's guaranteed to come and likely won't as we're a loss away from being tied for the 3rd worst record in the league, and no max guy is coming to that.

So you can go about Clarkson being some kind of sacrificial lamb, but we wouldn't even be sacrificing him for anything, which makes absolutely no sense.

Again the problem with this way of thinking is this mentality that "all we need is cap space and we can get George and LeBron!!"

No. There is a LOT more that goes to it. So this whole way of thinking that Clarkson or anyone else HAS to be moved in order for something to happen before anything is even guaranteed is bull[expletive] and any rational basketball fan that understands free agency knows it.
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Last edited by MJST on Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:45 am    Post subject:

My mind is fuzzy on this (I don't think it can be done anymore), but can teams still front load contracts to make it harder for teams to match.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:13 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Clarkson, whether you like it or not, MJ, is the sacrificial lamb.



For absolutely no one that's guaranteed to come and likely won't as we're a loss away from being tied for the 3rd worst record in the league, and no max guy is coming to that.

So you can go about Clarkson being some kind of sacrificial lamb, but we wouldn't even be sacrificing him for anything, which makes absolutely no sense.

Again the problem with this way of thinking is this mentality that "all we need is cap space and we can get George and LeBron!!"

No. There is a LOT more that goes to it. So this whole way of thinking that Clarkson or anyone else HAS to be moved in order for something to happen before anything is even guaranteed is bull[expletive] and any rational basketball fan that understands free agency knows it.

How much is Jordan Clarkson worth?

If we, for whatever reason, didn’t need him anymore, what would be equal value?

A mid first round pick, right? There really is no problem here.

You’re caught up in your narrative, but can’t see the forest from the trees.

No one is talking about giving him away, only cashing in one asset (Clarkson) for another asset (first round pick) that, for the Lakers’ purposes (potential Deng trade), is more valuable to them.

Stay focused. I’m arguing that if you have an offer right now for a mid first round pick for Clarkson, you pull the trigger. That’s my argument.

Now, to your point, if there are no trades available that’d net them a decent pick, you hold on to Clarkson.

But if there is, by all means you do it for a chance to make “the pitch” and change the course of the franchise.

Sacrificing Clarkson (for a mid-first) is worth that chance.

For the record, I’m skeptical you could even get a mid first for Clarkson. So the point is somewhat moot. I’m only pointing out that if the opportunity presented itself to trade Clarkson for a first round pick that had potential to be in the teens to early twenties, you do it.

It’d be smart preparation.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:15 am    Post subject:

JC isn't getting a mid-first rounder. Maybe a pick in the later 20s.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:22 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
JC isn't getting a mid-first rounder. Maybe a pick in the later 20s.


Good thing is that Clarkson is still relatively young and unlike Lou, still has room to develop his game.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:28 am    Post subject:

There is gonna be a team who values Clarksons offense especially off the bench
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:29 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
There is gonna be a team who values Clarksons offense especially off the bench


Not a mid-1st rounder. Maybe a pick in the 20s.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:31 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
There is gonna be a team who values Clarksons offense especially off the bench


Not a mid-1st rounder. Maybe a pick in the 20s.


I could see Popvoich taking a flyer on Clarkson.. I can live with a mid 1st round pick especially in a deep deep draft.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:39 am    Post subject:

It's hard to find a team that has an expiring deal and would be willing to also give up a 1st for JC.

Just keep him this year, deal with that later.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:44 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
There is gonna be a team who values Clarksons offense especially off the bench


Not a mid-1st rounder. Maybe a pick in the 20s.


In my opinion, it would not be wise to trade JC during the season for the following reasons:

1. Why give him up when we have no commitments from the 2 Max?

2. JR's situation during the summer is very fluid. He may spite the Lakers for benching him and not extending him and get an early contract from Dallas or others. The Lakers will have to either let JR walk or match thereby letting go of the 2 Max plan. Either way, it would be irrational to trade JC before the deadline. No reason to give up JC without seeing how the JR situation unfolds.

3. If JR is sour on the Lakers, then why choose JR and trade JC who has been happy taking what the Lakers give him (benching him)?

4. We are not going to get anything of significance for JC. Maybe a late 1st rounder, if we are lucky.

5. Trading JC now will make our team worse and not attractive to FA's.

The only sane reason to trade JC before the deadline is to allow him to flourish on another team instead of being on the bench. Otherwise, it's bad business on all accounts and this is a business not a fantasy league.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:45 am    Post subject:

^ Agreed. He's important to keep this season. We can deal with trading him later. With Lonzo's struggles, not having JC would be crushing to this team.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:46 am    Post subject:

In essence, I only see Clarkson being used as a added filler in a Paul George trade, OKC is gonna need to add scoring if they end up trading PG. and if we move KCP/Clarkson in a deal for PG that will lessen the blow of George's offensive output.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:57 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
In essence, I only see Clarkson being used as a added filler in a Paul George trade, OKC is gonna need to add scoring if they end up trading PG. and if we move KCP/Clarkson in a deal for PG that will lessen the blow of George's offensive output.


We lose assets that could otherwise be used to help offload Deng’s contract if we trade for PG mid-season especially with the assumption that he’s signing with us anyway.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject:

I agree with much of what people are saying here, I must ask though, because we know how dumb executives can be, if, hypothetically, a team were offering a pick projected to be around #20 for Jordan Clarkson, do you do it?

I hear yinoma saying that a mid first for Clarkson would never happen, and I can’t really argue against that, but if some silly team were offering a right under mid first round pick for Clarkson, do you do it?

I’m basically asking some of you all how deeply and firmly you're willing to hold on to personal ideology instead of embracing humility, a perpetual recognition that you could be wrong at any given moment.

What would be the right play in this hypothetical scenario? Hold on to Clarkson until the summer or accept an offer for a moderate level first round pick and prepare to jettison Deng.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:07 am    Post subject:

If a team offers a 15th pick for JC (and expiring deals), of course it's a no brainer.

Problem is, how many teams will offer a 1st rounder AND expiring deals? I think it's one or the other.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:18 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
If a team offers a 15th pick for JC (and expiring deals), of course it's a no brainer.

Problem is, how many teams will offer a 1st rounder AND expiring deals? I think it's one or the other.

You’re right. The idea is somewhat pie in the sky, but I wondered who would, at the very least, concede that trading Clarkson for a #15-22 pick is advantageous to future plans.

Kudos to you. MJ, obstinately, wouldn’t trade Clarkson for a low lottery pick.

“Perpetual hard lines make no room for life’s blurs.”
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