Why are the Thunder so bad despite having three stars?
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Runway8
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Why are the Thunder so bad despite having three stars?

activeverb wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
[
These guys in OKC.. three wing players who are all DA MAN, who all shoot low 40's, they're going nowhere. .


I don't think we disagree. I'm saying part of the reason they are all shooting in the low 40s is because they don't fit well together. On other teams, with teammares who complemented them better, they each could and did shoot much better.

Last year, for example, George shot 46-39-90.


True. Like if PG13 teamed with Lebron, I could see better numbers. But as the man, I haven't been high on any of those threes, which was why I was very vocal on not surrending any talent for PG13. I'd take him for free in free agency, but not in a trade. Regarding his FG%, last year was strangely efficient, and I've said I don't believe it until he strings a few years like that. So I'm not surprise his numbers are down again.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
OKC are #2 in defensive rating. Big 3 not providing efficient offense.


Where are they getting all that defense from with Carmelo on the floor? Is Steven Adams really that impactful of a defender?


Maybe watch them play? Your preconceived ideas are wrong.


He's asking an honest question. If you don't have anything of substance to reply, then maybe you shouldn't.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:36 pm    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
OKC are #2 in defensive rating. Big 3 not providing efficient offense.


Where are they getting all that defense from with Carmelo on the floor? Is Steven Adams really that impactful of a defender?


Maybe watch them play? Your preconceived ideas are wrong.


He's asking an honest question. If you don't have anything of substance to reply, then maybe you shouldn't.
m

If he watched them play he would see that Melo is playing defense. The preconceived idea that he doesn’t is wrong.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:13 am    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
OKC are #2 in defensive rating. Big 3 not providing efficient offense.


Where are they getting all that defense from with Carmelo on the floor? Is Steven Adams really that impactful of a defender?


Maybe watch them play? Your preconceived ideas are wrong.


He's asking an honest question. If you don't have anything of substance to reply, then maybe you shouldn't.


What makes you think that it's an honest question?
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rwongega
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:11 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
rwongega wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
OKC are #2 in defensive rating. Big 3 not providing efficient offense.


Where are they getting all that defense from with Carmelo on the floor? Is Steven Adams really that impactful of a defender?


Maybe watch them play? Your preconceived ideas are wrong.


He's asking an honest question. If you don't have anything of substance to reply, then maybe you shouldn't.


What makes you think that it's an honest question?


Why wouldn't it?
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
rwongega wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
OKC are #2 in defensive rating. Big 3 not providing efficient offense.


Where are they getting all that defense from with Carmelo on the floor? Is Steven Adams really that impactful of a defender?


Maybe watch them play? Your preconceived ideas are wrong.


He's asking an honest question. If you don't have anything of substance to reply, then maybe you shouldn't.


What makes you think that it's an honest question?


Why wouldn't it?


CC likes to stir the pot. Are you telling me that you've never noticed this?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
rwongega wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
rwongega wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
OKC are #2 in defensive rating. Big 3 not providing efficient offense.


Where are they getting all that defense from with Carmelo on the floor? Is Steven Adams really that impactful of a defender?


Maybe watch them play? Your preconceived ideas are wrong.


He's asking an honest question. If you don't have anything of substance to reply, then maybe you shouldn't.


What makes you think that it's an honest question?


Why wouldn't it?


CC likes to stir the pot. Are you telling me that you've never noticed this?


You're one to talk.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
You're one to talk.


Which is not a denial.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:55 pm    Post subject:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21744393/oklahoma-city-thunder-searching-answers-gotta-stop

Hmm, guess PG13 will be available if they don't make the playoffs.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:02 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21744393/oklahoma-city-thunder-searching-answers-gotta-stop

Hmm, guess PG13 will be available if they don't make the playoffs.


I wonder if they would have been better without making the Carmelo and Paul George trades. Oladipo has emerged as an All-Star and Sabonis is a solid role player, along with Kanter and McDermott.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:15 am    Post subject:

cathy78 wrote:
Because just big names and big contracts don't win games. This is what I am most scared of with the Lakers FO, to chase some names. All this "two max contracts" talk is not always a good idea. I'D rather have three good and solid players that work together than 2 big names that don't.

Can we get Steven Adams instead of Paul George?

And sometimes collecting names works out great ala Boston 08, Miami '10, GS w durant, almost us with Malone and Payton. IMO the most important concepts that lead to success in this sport are lineups, and read & react. I haven't watch a lot of Thunder this year but they are clearly lacking these on offense at least. I doubt they stay this bad the remainder of the year however.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:13 am    Post subject:

they have the 2/3 of the season to improve but in one,two months
they ll be running out of time
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:26 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
OKC are #2 in defensive rating. Big 3 not providing efficient offense.


Where are they getting all that defense from with Carmelo on the floor? Is Steven Adams really that impactful of a defender?


slow half court iso offense, low transition rate either side. Their half court defense isn't particularly good, their transition defense isn't either, but since transition defense is much worse than half court defense, it works out in their favour. Of course having a low volume of transition offense and not being good at what they do get leaves them with one hell of an anemic offense.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:23 am    Post subject:

Melo Layup
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noahp45
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:49 am    Post subject:

Melo is the reason why they suck His D is absolutely garbage. Look how much better NY is with out him, and how bad OKC is with him.

Watch them play he is the weak link on that team. With is an absolute dream for US PG13 going to bust a full sprint to US.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject:

I'm curious when will they decide to abandon Ship. I'm guessing at least a week before the trade deadline.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:31 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21744393/oklahoma-city-thunder-searching-answers-gotta-stop

Hmm, guess PG13 will be available if they don't make the playoffs.


I wonder if they would have been better without making the Carmelo and Paul George trades. Oladipo has emerged as an All-Star and Sabonis is a solid role player, along with Kanter and McDermott.


Hard to say. Kanter leaving gave Adams an opportunity and he has played great. Anyone's guess if Oladipo would have broken out if he had stayed in OKC under Westbrook's shadow.

In any case, their defense is much better and their offense is worse. Last year they won a lot of games with Westbrook playing hero ball and that's not happening.

But they got wiped out of the first round 1-4. So if they undid the Anthony and George changes I don't see them being a team that mattered.
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audioaxes
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject:

I dont get why anyone gave this team hype to begin with. George was a good fit in that his is a 2 way player and a decent outside shot but Melo has a negative net impact with his 0 defense and inability to play within his current means
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:41 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
I dont get why anyone gave this team hype to begin with. George was a good fit in that his is a 2 way player and a decent outside shot but Melo has a negative net impact with his 0 defense and inability to play within his current means


It was hyped because Westbrook led them to a playoff spot....with Melo and PG13 it was thought they could achieve more.....what I guess people didn't realize was how little Melo can help a team at this point of his career.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
I dont get why anyone gave this team hype to begin with. George was a good fit in that his is a 2 way player and a decent outside shot but Melo has a negative net impact with his 0 defense and inability to play within his current means




Thank you I think Westbrook/PG13 would've been good but you throw in Melo and well.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:17 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
I dont get why anyone gave this team hype to begin with. George was a good fit in that his is a 2 way player and a decent outside shot but Melo has a negative net impact with his 0 defense and inability to play within his current means


It was hyped because Westbrook led them to a playoff spot....with Melo and PG13 it was thought they could achieve more.....what I guess people didn't realize was how little Melo can help a team at this point of his career.



By adding George and allowing Adams to be the full time center, they've dramatically improved their defense.

The problem is Westbrook thrives in hero ball, so he hasn't figured out how to work with George and Melo (plus Melo is a shadow of what he was).

They are disjointed, don't pass the ball fluidly, and they lack shooters.

It's a long season, and I am not going to write them off, especially since they have the #2 defense.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:35 pm    Post subject:

Isn't it sort of strange how Carmelo was once considered someone who would have a superstar career, but in retrospect his impact is not even close to that of someone like Paul Pierce?
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:14 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Isn't it sort of strange how Carmelo was once considered someone who would have a superstar career, but in retrospect his impact is not even close to that of someone like Paul Pierce?


Carmelo has had a superstar career (10 all-star appearances; 15th best scoring average in NBA history). He hasn't had most post-season success. But to be fair, he really hasn't been on many good teams.

Paul Pierce is a superstar too. But he didn't really have much post season success until he teamed up with Garnett and Allen. If not for that luck, I'm not sure we'd be talking about how impactful he was.

They're both locks for first-ballot Hall of Famers. In ESPN's list of 100 best players of all time, Pierce came in 45 and Carmelo 59. I think Pierce is the better player, but they're not that far apart.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:16 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Isn't it sort of strange how Carmelo was once considered someone who would have a superstar career, but in retrospect his impact is not even close to that of someone like Paul Pierce?


Carmelo has had a superstar career (10 all-star appearances; 15th best scoring average in NBA history). He hasn't had most post-season success. But to be fair, he really hasn't been on many good teams.

Paul Pierce is a superstar too. But he didn't really have much post season success until he teamed up with Garnett and Allen. If not for that luck, I'm not sure we'd be talking about how impactful he was.

They're both locks for first-ballot Hall of Famers. In ESPN's list of 100 best players of all time, Pierce came in 45 and Carmelo 59. I think Pierce is the better player, but they're not that far apart.


You think Pierce was a legitimate superstar and franchise player?

How would you rank the following four: Pierce, McGrady, Wade, Carmelo?
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:32 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Isn't it sort of strange how Carmelo was once considered someone who would have a superstar career, but in retrospect his impact is not even close to that of someone like Paul Pierce?


Carmelo has had a superstar career (10 all-star appearances; 15th best scoring average in NBA history). He hasn't had most post-season success. But to be fair, he really hasn't been on many good teams.

Paul Pierce is a superstar too. But he didn't really have much post season success until he teamed up with Garnett and Allen. If not for that luck, I'm not sure we'd be talking about how impactful he was.

They're both locks for first-ballot Hall of Famers. In ESPN's list of 100 best players of all time, Pierce came in 45 and Carmelo 59. I think Pierce is the better player, but they're not that far apart.


You think Pierce was a legitimate superstar and franchise player?

How would you rank the following four: Pierce, McGrady, Wade, Carmelo?


"Legtimate superstar" seems like a loaded phrase. Pierce was Boston's franchise player for at least a decade.

I'd rank them: Wade, Pierce, Carmelo, McGrady.
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