Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35855 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:17 pm Post subject: Prime Harden vs prime Wade
I have Wade as the the third best SG of all-time right now, but what Harden has done these past two seasons is just ridiculous. Currently averaging 32.3 points and 9.2 assists on 46% from the field. That's 05-06 Kobe level impact, if not more.
But Wade was an insanely efficient player in his prime-- 30 PPG on above 50% from the field.
I think Wade will go down as having the better legacy due to his three rings, but I'm asking purely about impact. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12186 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:31 pm Post subject:
Really tough. I think you have to give the edge to Harden offensively, even though Wade could do it all and do it well. I just think Harden's a bit more dynamic and the superior shooter (hence the better TS%). Wade is superior defensively, although Harden has improved.
Wade also won a lot of important games for his team down the stretch. Harden has had some stinkers that stand out (he is also the entirety of his team's offense).
Ultimately, this is what makes it for me: Harden is 28 and I see him doing this for about 2 more years at least, with a gradual decline in production. Wade peaked around this age and then had some steep drops culminating in the (bleep)-show we see today.
For that, I give the nod to Harden - equally impactful with a longer term of production
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12186 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:35 pm Post subject:
Mike@LG wrote:
What's more impactful than actually winning championships?
I'm not going to fault Harden for being split off-of Durant and Westbrook. Nor am I going to fault him for failing to win rings with the Ghost of Dwight Howard and Eric Gordon. I am also disinclined to give too much credit to Wade for playing with Shaq, Lebron, and Chris Bosh. Like I said, Wade has won some important games, and Harden has had some stinkers, but one got to play in the worst-reffed Finals series of all-time and with LeBron James and Chris Bosh, and the other lost to the Warriors and the Spurs while essentially playing all by his lonesome.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29353 Location: La La Land
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:41 pm Post subject:
Cutheon wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
What's more impactful than actually winning championships?
I'm not going to fault Harden for being split off-of Durant and Westbrook. Nor am I going to fault him for failing to win rings with the Ghost of Dwight Howard and Eric Gordon. I am also disinclined to give too much credit to Wade for playing with Shaq, Lebron, and Chris Bosh. Like I said, Wade has won some important games, and Harden has had some stinkers, but one got to play in the worst-reffed Finals series of all-time and with LeBron James and Chris Bosh, and the other lost to the Warriors and the Spurs while essentially playing all by his lonesome.
I go with Wade. Harden's "stinkers" have happened consistently every playoffs. Going all the way back to the NBA finals OKC went to. Harden chokes. If he proves me wrong a couple playoffs in a row, I'll change my opinion. But that has yet to be seen. It doesn't help he's with a coach now that consistently underachieves in the playoffs.
Regular season player, sure Harden is better. But playoffs, not really close. Gotta go with Wade. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
I say Harden. You sub in a prime Harden on those Miami championship teams and they are even better with Harden's better outside shot making and playmaking. Lebron probably never leaves. _________________ (bleep) Kawhi
Wade as long as Harden continues to underwhelm in the playoffs. I'd mention defense but I'd be lying if I said I know how '17-'18 Harden plays defense.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:58 pm Post subject:
audioaxes wrote:
I say Harden. You sub in a prime Harden on those Miami championship teams and they are even better with Harden's better outside shot making and playmaking. Lebron probably never leaves.
This assumes Harden can transition to handling having a dominant paint player. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Wade is winding down his career while Harden is just entering his prime, so a lot will depend on what Harden does over the next 4-6 years.
There's a good chance that Harden will win the MVP this year, which would leapfrog him in the discussion.
In terms of stats and awards, there is less and less separating them.
Then it will becomes about rings. DIfferent people will place different value on that, especially with someone like Wade who wasn't the main man on most (or even arguably) all his ring teams. Then the question becomes are we saying Wade is better because he had better teammates?
Relatively inflated stats for Harden. Wade was playing in the 2006-2012 Eastern conference compared to the 2017 Western Conference. Team PPG is a huge discrepancy there.
Harden doesn't deliver in the playoffs so therefore it's a easy choice for me. Harden is a great regular season player who's game doesn't transfer over to the playoffs. His defense is still pretty suspect.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35855 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:58 pm Post subject:
activeverb wrote:
Wade is winding down his career while Harden is just entering his prime, so a lot will depend on what Harden does over the next 4-6 years.
There's a good chance that Harden will win the MVP this year, which would leapfrog him in the discussion.
In terms of stats and awards, there is less and less separating them.
Then it will becomes about rings. DIfferent people will place different value on that, especially with someone like Wade who wasn't the main man on most (or even arguably) all his ring teams. Then the question becomes are we saying Wade is better because he had better teammates?
How would someone argue that Shaq was a more important player on that 05-06 Heat team? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Wow. Can’t believe people are giving Wade so much credit for rings after the endless complaining about the refs in the 2005 Finals. And now people are suddenly impressed with Wade winning rings on super teams, but when Lebron does it he did something wrong. Huh?
Wow. Can’t believe people are giving Wade so much credit for rings after the endless complaining about the refs in the 2005 Finals. And now people are suddenly impressed with Wade winning rings on super teams, but when Lebron does it he did something wrong. Huh?
The complaining was bogus. That Mav's team had trouble checking scoring guards. Wasn't that the same year Kobe scored 60+ in 3 quarters? They had no one that could stay in front of Wade and for some strange reason they kept intentionally fouling Shaq )helps get into the bonus) as if he were the 2000 version.
No one in Dallas was complaining about FT's when Dirk got a touch foul to beat SA in G7 or when he shot just as many FT's as Wade's highest Finals game (in OT), yet he got his attempts in regulation.
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22853 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:57 am Post subject:
Steve007 wrote:
Wow. Can’t believe people are giving Wade so much credit for rings after the endless complaining about the refs in the 2005 Finals. And now people are suddenly impressed with Wade winning rings on super teams, but when Lebron does it he did something wrong. Huh?
We had Kobe. So whenever a wing takes the league by storm, there was always a percentage of hate coming from people being insecure for Kobe. Wade was the DA MAN in 2006 and he didn't have a super team. I do have him as 3rd all time.
Wow. Can’t believe people are giving Wade so much credit for rings after the endless complaining about the refs in the 2005 Finals. And now people are suddenly impressed with Wade winning rings on super teams, but when Lebron does it he did something wrong. Huh?
Little did we know, we hadn't seen nothing yet. Harden has taken that flop to a while new level. He reminds me of a human bobble head.
Wow. Can’t believe people are giving Wade so much credit for rings after the endless complaining about the refs in the 2005 Finals. And now people are suddenly impressed with Wade winning rings on super teams, but when Lebron does it he did something wrong. Huh?
Little did we know, we hadn't seen nothing yet. Harden has taken that flop to a whole new level. He reminds me of a human bobble head.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35855 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:07 am Post subject:
dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
Wow. Can’t believe people are giving Wade so much credit for rings after the endless complaining about the refs in the 2005 Finals. And now people are suddenly impressed with Wade winning rings on super teams, but when Lebron does it he did something wrong. Huh?
Little did we know, we hadn't seen nothing yet. Harden has taken that flop to a whole new level. He reminds me of a human bobble head.
Why did you quote yourself? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
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