40 Best Careers in NBA History
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vanexelent
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject:

The elbow key spin lob was mastered in Phil's offense. Loved watching them run that for Shaq.
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vanexelent
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:16 am    Post subject:

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If Shaq could have made free throws, he’d be the greatest offensive player ever. Consider that at a 70 percent rate, his 2000 season would have been worth nearly 2 more points per game, and at 80 percent, nearly 3 additional points per game
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject:

Yeah, that footnote made me chuckle. He really didn't have much to say about the FT shooting.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
Quote:
If Shaq could have made free throws, he’d be the greatest offensive player ever. Consider that at a 70 percent rate, his 2000 season would have been worth nearly 2 more points per game, and at 80 percent, nearly 3 additional points per game


It's funny, none of the centers on the GOAT short list managed to hit 70% of their free throws -- Shaq, Wilt, Russell, Duncan (but Tim came within a percentage point of making it)
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
Quote:
If Shaq could have made free throws, he’d be the greatest offensive player ever. Consider that at a 70 percent rate, his 2000 season would have been worth nearly 2 more points per game, and at 80 percent, nearly 3 additional points per game


It's funny, none of the centers on the GOAT short list managed to hit 70% of their free throws -- Shaq, Wilt, Russell, Duncan (but Tim came within a percentage point of making it)


Mr. Olajuwon wants to have a word with you in the parking lot.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
activeverb wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
Quote:
If Shaq could have made free throws, he’d be the greatest offensive player ever. Consider that at a 70 percent rate, his 2000 season would have been worth nearly 2 more points per game, and at 80 percent, nearly 3 additional points per game


It's funny, none of the centers on the GOAT short list managed to hit 70% of their free throws -- Shaq, Wilt, Russell, Duncan (but Tim came within a percentage point of making it)


Mr. Olajuwon wants to have a word with you in the parking lot.


LOL. Great player, but I don't think he's really considered to be on the GOAT short list.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:39 pm    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
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If Shaq could have made free throws, he’d be the greatest offensive player ever. Consider that at a 70 percent rate, his 2000 season would have been worth nearly 2 more points per game, and at 80 percent, nearly 3 additional points per game


Um Wilt says hello. How is shaq even close to Wilt? I don't like this guy- but here I am reading his stuff...
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:49 pm    Post subject:

So what, we have Mr. 11 rings, Lebron, Kareem and MJ left?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:59 am    Post subject:

Bill Russell at #4

This is an interesting attempt to quantify Russell's impact, which requires construction of data. The author estimates 5.5-6 blocks per 100 possessions. That's more realistic than some of the numbers I've seen kicked around.
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vanexelent
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:40 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
activeverb wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
Quote:
If Shaq could have made free throws, he’d be the greatest offensive player ever. Consider that at a 70 percent rate, his 2000 season would have been worth nearly 2 more points per game, and at 80 percent, nearly 3 additional points per game


It's funny, none of the centers on the GOAT short list managed to hit 70% of their free throws -- Shaq, Wilt, Russell, Duncan (but Tim came within a percentage point of making it)


Mr. Olajuwon wants to have a word with you in the parking lot.


LOL. Great player, but I don't think he's really considered to be on the GOAT short list.


Nor is KG, but this guy has them both in the top 10.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:07 am    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
activeverb wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
Quote:
If Shaq could have made free throws, he’d be the greatest offensive player ever. Consider that at a 70 percent rate, his 2000 season would have been worth nearly 2 more points per game, and at 80 percent, nearly 3 additional points per game


It's funny, none of the centers on the GOAT short list managed to hit 70% of their free throws -- Shaq, Wilt, Russell, Duncan (but Tim came within a percentage point of making it)


Mr. Olajuwon wants to have a word with you in the parking lot.


LOL. Great player, but I don't think he's really considered to be on the GOAT short list.


Nor is KG, but this guy has them both in the top 10.


True, but he has an unusual criteria for GOAT which doesn't count rings or other team success. I don't entirely buy his approach, but the reasoning is interesting. And it's fun to see someone who has a well-thought-out evaluation system for GOAT that we haven't heard a billion times before.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:18 pm    Post subject:

There are a number of factors that people consider in making these lists. Stats. Rings. Accolades. Esthetics. This guy is focusing on game impact and ignoring the rest.

Here is what he says:

Quote:
What This List Is Not

This list will not make traditional “arguments” for players. I won’t attempt to balance Kobe’s championships without Shaq, nor do I care about accolades like All-Star teams or the number of Hall of Fame teammates someone played with. I also don’t care how many rings a player won; the very thing I’m trying to tease out is who provided the most lift. Sometimes that lift is good enough to win, sometimes it’s not.

There are no time machines either — it’s not about how players would do today if transported into the past or future. It’s about the impact each had in his own time over the course of a career.

What This List Is

This list also goes far beyond the box score — indeed, the box score is merely a reference for quantifying tendencies — so if you’re used to citing points per game and Win Shares, this will be a bit different.

Instead, this is a career-value, or CORP list; it ranks the players who have provided the largest increase in the odds of a team winning championships over the course of their careers. This means that having great Finals moments or winning the hearts of fans with innovative passes is irrelevant. You can make a great list with those criteria, but that’s not what this exercise is intended to be.


The extent to which he accomplishes his mission is open to debate, and I think he’d welcome the debate. But if you can wrap your brain around what he is trying to do — and it took me some time to do this — his analysis makes more sense than if you view it as a traditional ranking.

Regardless, I find the ranking less interesting than the educated discussion (with video clips) of how these guys played over the course of their careers. There is a lot of great information about the strengths, weaknesses, style, and career circumstances for all of these guys.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:51 am    Post subject:

This guy better not put MJ or Lebron ahead of Kareem.
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vanexelent
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
This guy better not put MJ or Lebron ahead of Kareem.


He will have Lebron over both of them most likely.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:02 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Bill Russell at #4

This is an interesting attempt to quantify Russell's impact, which requires construction of data. The author estimates 5.5-6 blocks per 100 possessions. That's more realistic than some of the numbers I've seen kicked around.



Well, Manute Bol had 8.6 blocks per 100 possessions and Mark Eaton had 5.8. So those numbers don't seem outlandish for Russell.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:51 am    Post subject:

LeBron James at #3

There's nothing surprising here, though this guy is a little more impressed with Lebron's defense than most.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:18 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
LeBron James at #3

There's nothing surprising here, though this guy is a little more impressed with Lebron's defense than most.


Yes, I agree. Interestingly, as I reflect on all the Lebron vs. X perimeter player posts (save Jordan), particularly the ones concerning Kobe Bean, it really doesn't seem that close to me anymore.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Bill Russell at #4

This is an interesting attempt to quantify Russell's impact, which requires construction of data. The author estimates 5.5-6 blocks per 100 possessions. That's more realistic than some of the numbers I've seen kicked around.



Well, Manute Bol had 8.6 blocks per 100 possessions and Mark Eaton had 5.8. So those numbers don't seem outlandish for Russell.

I would tend to think Russell would probably fall somewhere between those two.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:22 pm    Post subject:

As an aside, Manute Bol had a career Block Percentage of 10.2. This means that he blocked 10.2% of the opponent’s two point shots when he was on the floor. I saw him play only a couple times. I don’t remember him being quite that disruptive.
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vanexelent
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:26 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
LeBron James at #3

There's nothing surprising here, though this guy is a little more impressed with Lebron's defense than most.


Yeah, I think Lebron get's a little to much credit for his defense against "all 5 positions". Even in this guys video, his example of Lebron guarding a Center was when he switched on Al Horford. Most Forwards can guard Al Horford. And Lebron doesn't exactly guard PG's very well.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:41 pm    Post subject:

Love how this guy is trying to say Lebron has played with scraps and elevated them. Bron homers, media included, love to downplay his teammates to boost up Lebron. The dude's had like 4-5 PRIME HOFers on his team the last 8 years since Miami. He's also had plenty of post prime stars too. Spare parts my ass.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:03 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Love how this guy is trying to say Lebron has played with scraps and elevated them. Bron homers, media included, love to downplay his teammates to boost up Lebron. The dude's had like 4-5 PRIME HOFers on his team the last 8 years since Miami. He's also had plenty of post prime stars too. Spare parts my ass.


He's had 4-5 prime HOFers since Miami? And those would be? Wade is the only clear first ballot HOFer he's played with. The other guys have made 2nd and 3rd All-NBA teams a couple of times each. Using actual data can you demonstrate that his teammates besides Wade had MVP caliber seasons or will surprise us and be first ballot HOF inductees? I just don't see it. And he has absolutely taken a terrible team to the Finals during his first stint in Cleveland. Maybe you want to explain to us how Drew Gooden and Larry Hughes were overlooked for All-NBA?

It's just silly to try to discount the man's career at this point. There are basically no metrics where he isn't top 5 all time. That includes advanced stats, box score stats, awards and accolades, finals appearances...I mean all you've got is the "so-and-so has more rings" argument and that argument is kind of weak.

The hate is pathetic at this point.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:18 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Love how this guy is trying to say Lebron has played with scraps and elevated them. Bron homers, media included, love to downplay his teammates to boost up Lebron. The dude's had like 4-5 PRIME HOFers on his team the last 8 years since Miami. He's also had plenty of post prime stars too. Spare parts my ass.


Overall, Lebron has had great teammates, but I am not sure if his teammates have been better than any of the other players who are routinely included in the top 10 of all time list. You don't get on the top 10 list without team success, and you don't have team success without good teammates.

I am not sure where you come up with this 4-5 prime H of Famers, though.
Wade is his only teammate I see a sure-fire Hall of Famer (and people will debate whether he was in his prime). I could see Bosh, Irving and even Love making the Hall, but I'd wouldn't say any of them are locks to do so.

Were those the guys you are thinking of, or am I missing someone?
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The Juggernaut
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:27 pm    Post subject:

Love, Kyrie, Wade, Bosh will all make the HOF guaranteed.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:40 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Love, Kyrie, Wade, Bosh will all make the HOF guaranteed.


Bosh has a pretty good chance, though he's the kind of guy that people will debate if he deserves it.

Kyrie -- we'll see. He's had a great start to his career, but he's out with an injury now and who knows what will happen with him from this point forward?

Love -- too early to judge him. I see him as a borderline guy.

Wouldn't shock me if all three make it, but don't see them as "guaranteed." However, if you see it as absolutely certain and want to give me great odds because you feel it's impossible to lose, I'll take the bet
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