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The Juggernaut
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
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 Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | Bombers that require manual release. Is this 1942? |
Gotta put that space gravity to good use!  |
Are you guys really complaining about the physics and science in Star Wars??? |
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Vishnu
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 16558
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerjoshua wrote: | | Quote: | | The biggest problem with Rey isnt that she is a nobody. Its that she hasnt done anything to warrant her abilities. If writers are relying on ohh she just has courage, strong will, and determination to overcome the odds it comes off as cheap. Rey beats a jedi that trained under Luke and Snoke the first time they meet when she uses a lightsaber the first time? She has total control of the force after two lessons with Luke that happen in less than 6 hours? |
Regarding the bolded:
1) The "she's a nobody" is a parallel to Anakin Skywalker who was the unknown son of a slave, same with the force sensitive slave child at the end.
2) Luke left Yoda in Empire without completing his training and almost beat Vader in their first meeting- It's also made pretty clear that Ben is no Vader.
3) 6 Hours? She was on the Island with Luke much longer than 6 hours....
Geez, for someone that hates the movie as much as you do, you sure don't seem to know much about it. |
Also, throughout TFA, JJ Abrams emphasizes how strong Chewbacca's bowcaster is. Before the fight, Kylo Ren is injured by a shot from it. He is already very injured when he fights Rey. Thiey even explicitly show this by having Ren hit himself on his side and show his blood on the snow before the duel. |
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loslakersss
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Joined: 31 Dec 2008
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Location: LA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerjoshua wrote: | | Quote: | | The biggest problem with Rey isnt that she is a nobody. Its that she hasnt done anything to warrant her abilities. If writers are relying on ohh she just has courage, strong will, and determination to overcome the odds it comes off as cheap. Rey beats a jedi that trained under Luke and Snoke the first time they meet when she uses a lightsaber the first time? She has total control of the force after two lessons with Luke that happen in less than 6 hours? |
Regarding the bolded:
1) The "she's a nobody" is a parallel to Anakin Skywalker who was the unknown son of a slave, same with the force sensitive slave child at the end.
2) Luke left Yoda in Empire without completing his training and almost beat Vader in their first meeting- It's also made pretty clear that Ben is no Vader.
3) 6 Hours? She was on the Island with Luke much longer than 6 hours....
Geez, for someone that hates the movie as much as you do, you sure don't seem to know much about it. |
Rey being a nobody isn't really an issue but could Anakin do anything force related in his first movie before he had any training? Could Luke? A precedent was set that regardless of how much potential a force user had it is still a skill that needs to be practiced.
Luke was first trained by Obi Wan. When he left Yoda it was after Yoda had trained him for quite a while. We saw his progression as he went from no powers to limited to Jedi Knight powers. He didn't just pick up a lightsaber for the first time and wound Vader, he had been training for years and still got his hand chopped off.
The Ben-Rey scene in TFA isn't *that* far fetched seeing that Kylo had already been shot and he was only trying to disarm someone he underestimated; she caught him by surprise similar to Obi Wan in Episode 1. Finn vs Ben is another story but I digress. |
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lakerjoshua
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Joined: 28 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | | lakerjoshua wrote: | | Quote: | | The biggest problem with Rey isnt that she is a nobody. Its that she hasnt done anything to warrant her abilities. If writers are relying on ohh she just has courage, strong will, and determination to overcome the odds it comes off as cheap. Rey beats a jedi that trained under Luke and Snoke the first time they meet when she uses a lightsaber the first time? She has total control of the force after two lessons with Luke that happen in less than 6 hours? |
Regarding the bolded:
1) The "she's a nobody" is a parallel to Anakin Skywalker who was the unknown son of a slave, same with the force sensitive slave child at the end.
2) Luke left Yoda in Empire without completing his training and almost beat Vader in their first meeting- It's also made pretty clear that Ben is no Vader.
3) 6 Hours? She was on the Island with Luke much longer than 6 hours....
Geez, for someone that hates the movie as much as you do, you sure don't seem to know much about it. |
Rey being a nobody isn't really an issue but could Anakin do anything force related in his first movie before he had any training? Could Luke? A precedent was set that regardless of how much potential a force user had it is still a skill that needs to be practiced.
Luke was first trained by Obi Wan. When he left Yoda it was after Yoda had trained him for quite a while. We saw his progression as he went from no powers to limited to Jedi Knight powers. He didn't just pick up a lightsaber for the first time and wound Vader, he had been training for years and still got his hand chopped off.
The Ben-Rey scene in TFA isn't *that* far fetched seeing that Kylo had already been shot and he was only trying to disarm someone he underestimated; she caught him by surprise similar to Obi Wan in Episode 1. Finn vs Ben is another story but I digress. |
Anakin and Luke were both Force sensitive and it manifested itself through their skills as a Pilot- Anakin winning the Pod Race and Luke turning off his targeting system and using the Force to blow up the Death Star. Both of whom had little to no Force training at the time. |
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22
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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fiendishoc
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ElginBaylor wrote: | | Here's an interesting take, one that I agree with, on what this film accomplishes with one of it's biggest reveals. Spoiler Warning: Do not read if you haven't seen the movie. |
The problem with this thesis is that even before the ESB reveal, Luke's father WAS somebody. A war hero who was a Jedi and the "best starpilot in the galaxy" and who served beside Obi-Wan in the Clone Wars. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | Bombers that require manual release. Is this 1942? |
Gotta put that space gravity to good use! |
Are you guys really complaining about the physics and science in Star Wars??? |
I liked the scene. I get what purpose it was serving for the story.
But it's still funny. The bombs reminded me of WW2.
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rwongega
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Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | Bombers that require manual release. Is this 1942? |
Gotta put that space gravity to good use! |
Are you guys really complaining about the physics and science in Star Wars??? |
Not me, though the science was pretty bad of a stretch even then. Just purely unnecessary and logically incomprehensible why a futuristic tech society hasn't discovered what a remote is.
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ChickenStu
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Joined: 25 Apr 2015
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| rwongega wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | Bombers that require manual release. Is this 1942? |
Gotta put that space gravity to good use! |
Are you guys really complaining about the physics and science in Star Wars??? |
Not me, though the science was pretty bad of a stretch even then. Just purely unnecessary and logically incomprehensible why a futuristic tech society hasn't discovered what a remote is. |
I thought it wasn't futuristic, but a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away?  |
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loslakersss
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Joined: 31 Dec 2008
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Location: LA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| lakerjoshua wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | lakerjoshua wrote: | | Quote: | | The biggest problem with Rey isnt that she is a nobody. Its that she hasnt done anything to warrant her abilities. If writers are relying on ohh she just has courage, strong will, and determination to overcome the odds it comes off as cheap. Rey beats a jedi that trained under Luke and Snoke the first time they meet when she uses a lightsaber the first time? She has total control of the force after two lessons with Luke that happen in less than 6 hours? |
Regarding the bolded:
1) The "she's a nobody" is a parallel to Anakin Skywalker who was the unknown son of a slave, same with the force sensitive slave child at the end.
2) Luke left Yoda in Empire without completing his training and almost beat Vader in their first meeting- It's also made pretty clear that Ben is no Vader.
3) 6 Hours? She was on the Island with Luke much longer than 6 hours....
Geez, for someone that hates the movie as much as you do, you sure don't seem to know much about it. |
Rey being a nobody isn't really an issue but could Anakin do anything force related in his first movie before he had any training? Could Luke? A precedent was set that regardless of how much potential a force user had it is still a skill that needs to be practiced.
Luke was first trained by Obi Wan. When he left Yoda it was after Yoda had trained him for quite a while. We saw his progression as he went from no powers to limited to Jedi Knight powers. He didn't just pick up a lightsaber for the first time and wound Vader, he had been training for years and still got his hand chopped off.
The Ben-Rey scene in TFA isn't *that* far fetched seeing that Kylo had already been shot and he was only trying to disarm someone he underestimated; she caught him by surprise similar to Obi Wan in Episode 1. Finn vs Ben is another story but I digress. |
Anakin and Luke were both Force sensitive and it manifested itself through their skills as a Pilot- Anakin winning the Pod Race and Luke turning off his targeting system and using the Force to blow up the Death Star. Both of whom had little to no Force training at the time. |
But they had been piloting/racing before that. The force sensitivity gave them a little extra but they still had the skill of piloting beforehand (granted Luke's "piloting" was closer to pod racing before he hopped in an X-Wing).
I'm mainly referring to Rey using the force to get the lightsaber before the snowbattle. Even after training with Obi Wan Luke struggled to use the force for his lightsaber grab in the wampa cave in TESB.
There's a precedent set that the force is a honed skill and while it may subconsciously increase your ability to do things you're already good at it also takes years of training to be able to consciously use the force. |
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20,000
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:21 am Post subject: |
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To delight you all
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Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.' |
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20,000
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Finally saw the movie last night. And this thread should be re-titled to note there are spoilers.
I liked it. It set itself up to be a typical Star Wars movie. Crazy plots, last second saving. The heroes.
And then it didn't happen. It was not like all the other movies, which people complain about both ways (TFA is too much like ANH, this one will be too much like ESB, but then it isn't, which is also bad!).
I loved how they presented people as humans. Not just heroes, one-dimensional. Finn, the great hero....who is trying to escape. Luke, the Jedi legend....who is milking things on the side of the cliff. Wise Leia who sits there....but can use the force to glide through space. I loved how these were not just characters but more fully fleshed out people.
Some humor was weird. But then, TFA had some odd humor as well. ROJ had some odd humor thrown in and, frankly, was not that great a movie unless you just like good vs evil and good wins stories.
The first third of the movie I felt I did not like it. The second third, to final 2/3, I was on the edge of my seat as I did not know what was happening. They strayed from the similar and threw in all these twists. The suicide mission did not work. They didn't suddenly jump to lightspeed. The allies did not come to rescue them. It had a greater tone of reality to it. I know we go to movies to escape reality, but I enjoy seeing reality and not something too far-fetched.
There were other things I did not love. Yoda. Finn...will he survive? Oh, he just woke up. Leia glides through space? OK, she can do that...this one time? Phasma....is just dead. Glad she won the hand-to-hand battle with Finn, but then suddenly he glides up and wins. BB-8 is too much a hero. Maybe he is strong with the force?
I thought it was a good treatment of Luke and a rightful way to end his story.
Liked that Rey is a nobody (thanks EB for posting that article). Still weird she could control the force and wield the lightsaber like so. OK, being an orphan on Jakku she had to climb and fight, but to the level of defeating the Pratorian Guards (however that is spelled)?
Do we need to know Snoke's backstory? Did we know the Emperor's throughout the original trilogy?
The more I let it digest the more I like the movie. Will watch again.
And now I am excited for the final installment. What does it mean? Where will it go? Who will be in it?
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Courage doesn't always roar.
Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.' |
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ElginBaylor
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| 20,000 wrote: | Finally saw the movie last night. And this thread should be re-titled to note there are spoilers.
I liked it. It set itself up to be a typical Star Wars movie. Crazy plots, last second saving. The heroes.
And then it didn't happen. It was not like all the other movies, which people complain about both ways (TFA is too much like ANH, this one will be too much like ESB, but then it isn't, which is also bad!).
I loved how they presented people as humans. Not just heroes, one-dimensional. Finn, the great hero....who is trying to escape. Luke, the Jedi legend....who is milking things on the side of the cliff. Wise Leia who sits there....but can use the force to glide through space. I loved how these were not just characters but more fully fleshed out people.
Some humor was weird. But then, TFA had some odd humor as well. ROJ had some odd humor thrown in and, frankly, was not that great a movie unless you just like good vs evil and good wins stories.
The first third of the movie I felt I did not like it. The second third, to final 2/3, I was on the edge of my seat as I did not know what was happening. They strayed from the similar and threw in all these twists. The suicide mission did not work. They didn't suddenly jump to lightspeed. The allies did not come to rescue them. It had a greater tone of reality to it. I know we go to movies to escape reality, but I enjoy seeing reality and not something too far-fetched.
There were other things I did not love. Yoda. Finn...will he survive? Oh, he just woke up. Leia glides through space? OK, she can do that...this one time? Phasma....is just dead. Glad she won the hand-to-hand battle with Finn, but then suddenly he glides up and wins. BB-8 is too much a hero. Maybe he is strong with the force?
I thought it was a good treatment of Luke and a rightful way to end his story.
Liked that Rey is a nobody (thanks EB for posting that article). Still weird she could control the force and wield the lightsaber like so. OK, being an orphan on Jakku she had to climb and fight, but to the level of defeating the Pratorian Guards (however that is spelled)?
Do we need to know Snoke's backstory? Did we know the Emperor's throughout the original trilogy?
The more I let it digest the more I like the movie. Will watch again.
And now I am excited for the final installment. What does it mean? Where will it go? Who will be in it? |
I used to say this about albums on first listening, that the good ones get better over time. I believe this to be true of movies as well. I will see this movie again.
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:52 am Post subject: |
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I won't re-watch in theaters but I will re-watch when it comes out on iTunes. I didn't hate TFA but I didn't like it as much upon 1st viewing as I did after the 2nd/3rd viewings.
I wish they could edit out all of the porg and Rose scenes though, would make it far more re-watchable. |
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PLATNUM
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:53 am Post subject: |
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From what I've read a certain character's arc may not be completely over just yet. Ala Obi-Wan.
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Vishnu
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| PLATNUM wrote: | | From what I've read a certain character's arc may not be completely over just yet. Ala Obi-Wan. |
That's almost a given, especially with Carrie Fisher gone. We need him in Episode 9. |
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PROPHET
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Posts: 4356
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | Bombers that require manual release. Is this 1942? |
Gotta put that space gravity to good use! |
Are you guys really complaining about the physics and science in Star Wars??? |
Also why can't you auto pilot ships that have hyper space travel capabilities.. |
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waterman40
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Posts: 6287
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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I had a good time seeing the movie, basically 2 1/2 hours to cover about a 24 hour period in the Star Wars epic. I thought the humor worked, Rose didn't bother me as a character (definitely not Jar Jar Binks level of annoyance).
The subplot with Finn and Rose seemed like a big waste of time, but other than that, well done. My rankings of Star Wars films:
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. Star Wars
3. Return of the Jedi
4. Rogue One
5. Last Jedi
6-9 The last 3 were all crap, except for Ewan McGregor
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loslakersss
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Joined: 31 Dec 2008
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Location: LA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| PROPHET wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | Bombers that require manual release. Is this 1942? |
Gotta put that space gravity to good use! |
Are you guys really complaining about the physics and science in Star Wars??? |
Also why can't you auto pilot ships that have hyper space travel capabilities.. |
You can but she didn't because autopilot would avoid crashing. |
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20,000
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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alt-right cry baby claims credit for negative reviews of The Last Jedi
| Quote: | A Facebook page called Down With Disney’s Treatment of Franchises and its Fanboys is claiming responsibility for tanking the Rotten Tomatoes audience score for the latest “Star Wars” film, alleging that it used bots in a concerted attack against the Rian Johnson-directed movie.
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| Quote: | On Tuesday, we sent a direct message to the page, whose moderator responded almost immediately. He explained that he’s upset with “Star Wars” producers for, “among other things,” introducing more female characters into the franchise’s universe.
Throughout the course of our conversation, the self-identified member of the “alt-right” claimed that Poe Dameron (played by Oscar Isaac) is a “victim of the anti-mansplaining movement,” that Poe and Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill) are in danger of being “turn[ed]” gay, and that men should be reinstated as rulers of “society.”
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Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.' |
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LakesGnrLake
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Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 1296
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| 20,000 wrote: | alt-right cry baby claims credit for negative reviews of The Last Jedi
| Quote: | A Facebook page called Down With Disney’s Treatment of Franchises and its Fanboys is claiming responsibility for tanking the Rotten Tomatoes audience score for the latest “Star Wars” film, alleging that it used bots in a concerted attack against the Rian Johnson-directed movie.
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| Quote: | On Tuesday, we sent a direct message to the page, whose moderator responded almost immediately. He explained that he’s upset with “Star Wars” producers for, “among other things,” introducing more female characters into the franchise’s universe.
Throughout the course of our conversation, the self-identified member of the “alt-right” claimed that Poe Dameron (played by Oscar Isaac) is a “victim of the anti-mansplaining movement,” that Poe and Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill) are in danger of being “turn[ed]” gay, and that men should be reinstated as rulers of “society.”
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haha Disney PR is in such panic. Forbes already confirmed from Rotten Tomatoes that the audience scores are authentic. You should see the show they are putting on facebook too now. |
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999
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave filoni your my only hope to save this saga |
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tox
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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I watched it yesterday. I liked the Rey/ Luke stuff. I really thought the entire Rose/ Finn/ Poe subplot was pointless and could've been removed. The Ben Solo stuff was okay.
I'm not disappointed because Star Wars hasn't been good since 1980 (Return of the Jedi was okay), 14 years before I was born. I didn't go in with expectations to begin with. I'm just glad there was something I enjoyed because I didn't like anything from TFA, though I didn't really dislike anything in it either (vs. Ep 8 which had Rose). |
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ssiknick833
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| 20,000 wrote: | Finally saw the movie last night. And this thread should be re-titled to note there are spoilers.
I liked it. It set itself up to be a typical Star Wars movie. Crazy plots, last second saving. The heroes.
And then it didn't happen. It was not like all the other movies, which people complain about both ways (TFA is too much like ANH, this one will be too much like ESB, but then it isn't, which is also bad!).
I loved how they presented people as humans. Not just heroes, one-dimensional. Finn, the great hero....who is trying to escape. Luke, the Jedi legend....who is milking things on the side of the cliff. Wise Leia who sits there....but can use the force to glide through space. I loved how these were not just characters but more fully fleshed out people.
Some humor was weird. But then, TFA had some odd humor as well. ROJ had some odd humor thrown in and, frankly, was not that great a movie unless you just like good vs evil and good wins stories.
The first third of the movie I felt I did not like it. The second third, to final 2/3, I was on the edge of my seat as I did not know what was happening. They strayed from the similar and threw in all these twists. The suicide mission did not work. They didn't suddenly jump to lightspeed. The allies did not come to rescue them. It had a greater tone of reality to it. I know we go to movies to escape reality, but I enjoy seeing reality and not something too far-fetched.
There were other things I did not love. Yoda. Finn...will he survive? Oh, he just woke up. Leia glides through space? OK, she can do that...this one time? Phasma....is just dead. Glad she won the hand-to-hand battle with Finn, but then suddenly he glides up and wins. BB-8 is too much a hero. Maybe he is strong with the force?
I thought it was a good treatment of Luke and a rightful way to end his story.
Liked that Rey is a nobody (thanks EB for posting that article). Still weird she could control the force and wield the lightsaber like so. OK, being an orphan on Jakku she had to climb and fight, but to the level of defeating the Pratorian Guards (however that is spelled)?
Do we need to know Snoke's backstory? Did we know the Emperor's throughout the original trilogy?
The more I let it digest the more I like the movie. Will watch again.
And now I am excited for the final installment. What does it mean? Where will it go? Who will be in it? |
This pretty much sums up how i feel about it. Nice write up. 
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tox
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Vishnu wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | leor_77 wrote: | | There's such a huge difference between critics & users ratings (57% users, 94% critics) of it on rotten tomatoes. Something seriously smells fishy here. |
Supposedly it's bots hitting the movie with a bunch of half stars, many with short comments decrying the female characters. Other sites like IMDb and Flixster and the like all have significantly better user ratings, though not as high as the critics'. |
That could very well be part of it but I think a lot of it is viewers going in with some expectations/theories that are complaining about them not coming to fruition. I saw this movie with many of my cousins and one in particular did not like how Snoke was handled. Personally, I thought it was cool and unexpected. I imagine that’s what Rian Johnson was intending. |
I liked how Snoke was handled, too. I never gave a damn about Snoke and I'm glad the narrative didn't either |
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